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Gender Neutral pronouns

1,979 Views | 27 Replies

Calling certain people with gendered pronouns has apparently been a big problem. As you may know it can appear as an assumption of someone's gender. So the people who aren't comfortable with the standard pronouns he and she, prefer to be called they/them/ze/hir.
I have no problem when someone asks me that tey'd rather be called he or she, but calling a singular person they/them is just too much for me. I would never understand who you're refering to if you're talking to me like that. I'd really like some answers of someone of the trans community because I really don't understand how these simple pronouns are insulting you in some way. Being called he or she just doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

https://apps.carleton.edu/student/orgs/saga/pronouns/

Also this is a video where people discuss this issue, you don't have to watch it but I just thought it was interesting.

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 15:10:35


How about It?

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 15:35:40


At 10/23/16 03:10 PM, chupacabras89 wrote: How about It?

Oh yeah forgot to ask.
What are your opinions on these pronouns and wich side are you on?

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 15:38:30


At 10/23/16 03:35 PM, Moblin wrote:
At 10/23/16 03:10 PM, chupacabras89 wrote: How about It?
Oh yeah forgot to ask.
What are your opinions on these pronouns and wich side are you on?

Just call me Hugh Mongus XD

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 16:34:01


People should free to politely ask someone to call them by certain pronouns but if someone calls them dude or girl and they unironically ask "did you just assume my gender?" or condescendingly correct them, they can fuck right off.

I feel like this shit is a trend anyways and will blow over within a few years.

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 16:50:57


People will just have to get mad, cuz I'm not saying all this shit.


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 17:06:43


At 10/23/16 02:50 PM, Moblin wrote:

Also this is a video where people discuss this issue, you don't have to watch it but I just thought it was interesting.

forgot to put the vid
https://youtu.be/ZP3mSamRbYA?t=339

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 17:26:15 (edited 2016-10-23 17:27:25)


My preferred pronoun is "your honor". Also, regardless of whether you're speaking to me or referring to me in the third person, it should always be "your honor"


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 17:34:16


Just call everyone "he" and "Mr." and be done with it.

Why do "innies" and "outies" even matter when addressing someone?


A truly prophetic sig...

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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 21:36:57


At 10/23/16 04:34 PM, GirthAlgar wrote: I feel like this shit is a trend anyways and will blow over within a few years.

Pretty much this. The emos came and went, the bronies are already in their dying breath, I feel that the SJW and all the special snowflake stuff is already slowly losing its attraction. Something new will take its place. Man I hope the next one is worse than SJWs, I love watching drama like this.


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 21:48:43


At 10/23/16 04:25 PM, Zornuzkull wrote: I don't care... And I don't think I've ever talked to anyone who uses these pronouns...
Here's a tip don't go on tumblr...

Or just don't follow those people on Tumblr? There's a userbase outside of them.


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-23 23:51:01


I think that if someone demanded the use of gender neutral pronouns, I would consider that a microaggression against me.

Of course, telling me I have committed a microaggression is itself a microaggression. Is that a paradox?


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-24 00:17:01


At 10/23/16 10:22 PM, Zornuzkull wrote: Normal people find me difficult enough to deal with if i started hanging around on tumblr I'd probably end up with blood on my hands... And that is something I'd rather avoid...

It is?

At 10/23/16 02:56 PM, yurgenburgen wrote: bazongo

Genius. Imma steal that now, thank you.

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-24 00:24:03


If someone asked me to use gender neutral pronouns, then I'd be happy to. I'm not a complete asshole


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-24 02:04:32


Zer gender neutral pronouns are very eazy to undersdand! Vot is the problem?


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-24 02:06:15 (edited 2016-10-24 02:06:27)


At 10/23/16 09:52 PM, Hacklyn wrote: It helps with dealing with prejudice and removes the issue of gender and adds anonymity to the individual referred to.

It'd be helpful when you want to address something without the issue of gender being such an issue. For examples: It can remove the assumption people have of managers, doctors, pilots being men whereas secretaries, receptionists are assumed to be women.

Also, English wouldn't be the first language with gender neutral pronouns.

You don't even have to use pronouns to refer to these jobs."The doctor is very pretty, the doctor also has a nice haircut". You don't always have to replace your noun with a pronoun, you can just use your pronoun again without assuming someone's gender. Even if there are neutral pronouns, I would only be using these to refer to people who are unsure of their gender, but nothing else. So I don't think these would be very useful in people's daily lives.

At 10/24/16 12:24 AM, YellowisCOOL wrote: If someone asked me to use gender neutral pronouns, then I'd be happy to. I'm not a complete asshole

I don't think being sceptical of changing your grammar should make you an asshole.

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-24 04:29:17


At 10/23/16 03:10 PM, chupacabras89 wrote: How about It?

Or "that".

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-24 23:12:41


Im fine with they/them, but fuck zhe/zim or whatever the fuck the z-ones are. Thats just stupid

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-26 23:10:47


Is it just me or do a lot of the symbols for symbolizing different genders look like arrows and swastikas?

On a serious note, this gender shit has gone too far. There are over 50 "genders". In my eyes, there are three: male, female, and transgender. End of story.


It's all shits and giggles until someone giggles and shits.

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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-27 08:16:16


It's funny because in France we have this kind of problems too. "Il/Elle" (=> "he/she) become "iel" (=>hir).
A friend told me if there are so many genders and paradox stuff this is a method for blame ironically the /cis/stem and show how gender is an absurd social construction.

(but honestly now I can't see the differences between a "true trans" and an attention whore.

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-27 11:08:31 (edited 2016-10-27 11:10:38)


At 10/26/16 11:10 PM, DeftonesFan665 wrote: On a serious note, this gender shit has gone too far. There are over 50 "genders". In my eyes, there are three: male, female, and transgender. End of story.

Transgender isn't a gender either, by definition they've transitioned from one gender to the other which just reinforces it being a binary system. If someone transitions from male to female they're now a woman, not a transgender or another separate category. The third category would be intersex or just androgynous if you want to count it, but no transexual will want to be called something other than he or she unless they're very deliberately trying to stand out.

I've never seen the point in excessively categorising every minor trait that deviates even slightly from narrow traditions and stereotypes. The whole thing is exhausting and kind of regressively de-humanizing. It only goes too far when they try to criminalise "mis-gendering" and similar perceived slights, though.

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-27 11:46:30


At 10/27/16 11:08 AM, Jackho wrote:
At 10/26/16 11:10 PM, DeftonesFan665 wrote: On a serious note, this gender shit has gone too far. There are over 50 "genders". In my eyes, there are three: male, female, and transgender. End of story.
Transgender isn't a gender either, by definition they've transitioned from one gender to the other which just reinforces it being a binary system. If someone transitions from male to female they're now a woman, not a transgender or another separate category. The third category would be intersex or just androgynous if you want to count it, but no transexual will want to be called something other than he or she unless they're very deliberately trying to stand out.

The reason I count transgender as a gender is because I understand that some people who are male are transitioning into a female and vice versa. Since they're in-between genders, there has to be something to define that situation. Yeah, they can still be called male or female during transition since they're technically not the other gender yet, but I guess it's just a tolerance thing for me.


I've never seen the point in excessively categorising every minor trait that deviates even slightly from narrow traditions and stereotypes. The whole thing is exhausting and kind of regressively de-humanizing. It only goes too far when they try to criminalise "mis-gendering" and similar perceived slights, though.

Yeah, I don't understand it either. Some of these "genders" just narrow down the tiniest of details of people who feel a certain way and divide it into genders. Like someone who feels like a man one minute and then feels like a woman the next. Something that sounds like a personality disorder shouldn't be classified as a gender.


It's all shits and giggles until someone giggles and shits.

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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-27 12:42:52


It's a bunch of nonsensical horse shit. The only reason it has any traction is because it's been facilitated by the media to just the right degree that most people can still see it as a joke, but enough people will keep pushing it to keep it alive.

This is so all the stupid SJW youngsters who have the most energy will put that energy towards crying about pronouns, mansplaining, manspreading, and gender wage gap myths. Meanwhile AT&T buys Time Warner, Tom Wheeler has secret meetings with Obama that cause him to flip on net neutrality, and we destroy the lives of private citizens by taking away their rights and ingraining in everyone the idea that gun ownership is bad and equivalent to racism.


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-27 17:38:24


At 10/27/16 08:16 AM, AcidVladislas wrote: It's funny because in France we have this kind of problems too. "Il/Elle" (=> "he/she) become "iel" (=>hir).
A friend told me if there are so many genders and paradox stuff this is a method for blame ironically the /cis/stem and show how gender is an absurd social construction.

(but honestly now I can't see the differences between a "true trans" and an attention whore.

Never knew this was a problem in France. We don't have that problem here in Belgium, but maybe I'm not really in contact with these things considering I don't live in a big city.

Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-27 18:38:06 (edited 2016-10-27 18:50:24)


** I think there are people on both "sides" who take it a bit too personally, and react emotionally. Some of us too often let the extreme dictate how we see people on both sides. So, I'd like to share my observations from a neutral standpoint if I may. Hheheh.

Ideally, if someone is brave enough to, they will politely ask you to address them differently. I definitely see this as your choice. You can either oblige, or choose not to. Fortunately, in a social setting you are not required to spend time with someone whose pronoun you aren't comfortable with, anyway. If you work with them, or find yourself in a situation where you absolutely must address them in some way, it may be a good idea to make use of their name. You do not have to compromise your values (whatever values you find to be incongruent with what they've asked of you) to keep the shared environment a friendly one. Of course you might slip up, it will happen. That's absolutely fine. As long as you're trying to meet someone where they stand, I don't think there is any call for conflict on your end, or theirs.

Which leads me to explain, I don't think accidentally addressing someone with a pronoun they're uncomfortable with should be seen as a deliberate attack on that person's being/identity. After all, it was a mistake. A positive change is difficult to make if someone is on the defensive.

There's also a ratio to be kept in mind here. Most people in these situations (on both sides) don't get offended. In a public setting, most won't even tell you that you've used a pronoun that makes them uncomfortable, because they want to avoid conflict with you or bystanders. However, we're more likely to only hear from those who are outspoken (like our encounters on the internet, because most of the people using the internet are just silently watching, while the extremists take the floor, and elect themselves as the voice of reason for their cause.) Which is why most of our perceived encounters of this nature are likely to be negative ones.

As you may already know, some languages don't use gender specific pronouns in their every-day. Growing up around someone who had just come from the Philippines, I was often called "he" by accident. Because the concept of using gendered pronouns in casual conversation can be hard to pick up at first. Just as it is for us, trying to use gender neutral pronouns.

Anyway, those are my observations.

** I'm only addressing the issue of interactions between the groups. Not addressing the validity of gender neutrality. I'm not sure the Newgrounds General Forum is the best place to facilitate that type of conversation.


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-28 09:20:57


My preferred pronouns are the f***** and n***** but Newgrounds is oppressing me by not letting me post them.


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-29 19:21:37


At 10/26/16 11:10 PM, DeftonesFan665 wrote: Is it just me or do a lot of the symbols for symbolizing different genders look like arrows and swastikas?

They more resemble Unown to me. Only, lacking an eye in the middle of them.

On a serious note, this gender shit has gone too far. There are over 50 "genders". In my eyes, there are three: male, female, and transgender. End of story.

I'm sure there are plenty who would argue that there are just two. Related:

Gender Neutral pronouns


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Response to Gender Neutral pronouns 2016-10-29 19:51:09 (edited 2016-10-29 19:51:38)


At 10/23/16 02:50 PM, Moblin wrote: Calling certain people with gendered pronouns has apparently been a big problem. As you may know it can appear as an assumption of someone's gender. So the people who aren't comfortable with the standard pronouns he and she, prefer to be called they/them/ze/hir.

I really hope this ends. If this continues we might be seeing people randomly calling other people "he" and "she"and that's when it goes too far.