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chris-the-stick2
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-17 17:33:29 Reply

aha, i see!

to tell you the truth, i usually hate ''layout changes'' or changes that radically alter a site's appearance/functionality, but i guess that you will have a good plan in order to do those changes...
so, for the moment, i support this new change! :)

(also, you're the boss, so its your call; i will just state my opinion about this in here...)

first of all, i LOVE that the classic portal will be back in the header/in NG's main page...
i also like that both the mobile version of the site and the non-mobile version of the site will be available for all members, and they will be able to change into each version, as many times they want...
(freedom of choice, thats good!)

my only concerns so far, are for the (even more) changes to the voting system.
what will happen now?
we will be able to vote on movies/games, but we will earn ONLY 1 EXP point per day?
that sounds odd, and kinda wrong. (for the frequent voters, that is..)
also, in which way will the reviews change?
and how will the new voting system work?

other than that, everything seems/sounds OK.
keep up the good work, mr fulp!
you are doing the best for this site, and you are always fighting to make it a(n even) better place!
bravo!

Cyberdevil
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-17 17:59:49 (edited 2016-09-17 18:02:59) Reply

Awesome. All of it, awesome.

The new layout looks fresh. Easy to navigate, quick to load, devoid of unnecessary elements - though I wouldn't mind more graphics either. NG has always had a lot of details that enhance the experience, and I hope those don't disappear entirely. Different footer graphics, background textures on titles, menus, etc, stuff like that livens up the layout and keeps it from feeling overly square. Like other sites often do. It's very functional, sure, but not as aesthetically appealing. Maybe texture-type elements could appear only to desktop users, to lighten on mobile loading times if that's the intention? But either way, I like the new slimmed-down look too. Just hope it doesn't slim down too much. New footer looks pretty oldskool with the plain-text links over a cityscape silhouette. Nice.

Happy to see the drop-downs finally disappearing! They've been in the way a LOT while playing games (accidentally clicking a dropdown link after you accidentally hover over the menu while clicking around within said game). Also assume they haven't been working at all for mobile users. And then there's duplicate entries like "Team Up! for each section, and "Submit Yours!" (which is already at the top of the page), and all the pages for each section with the same name in each menu. I still feel the menu from back in 2007 was ideal functionality-wise, with all the main pages available right from the start - nothing hidden in a sub-menu - everything within easy reach. Easy to tab between too. And no scripts that might work differently on different browsers/devices.

And the Portal's in the menu again! YES! :D Was so long ago it feels weird not jumping through the submenu's to get there now... but should be easy to get used to. Happy to hear menus might be getting custumizable too.

With the Downloads being split in two, I hope nothing gets removed, like the PS3 Specials or Icons? Not that I've ever used those, but more stuff = good stuff.

Topic and Post counts: I wonder if big numbers inspire users to sign up, or scare them away. As long as they're still visible somewhere it seems like a functional change though. I like numbers.

Really hopeful about all these changes, looks like things are moving in a good direction.

And welcome back @Pandemoniac ! :D

demon1000
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-17 18:22:49 Reply

Hey @Tomfulp I saw the Newgrounds API System and I was Wondering. . . Is is possible To Put medals Into HTML5 Games now?


YOLO WORLD!!!

Gimmick
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 01:14:01 Reply

And lemme guess, the Newgrounds logo will become smaller and smaller to make more space available? Eventually it'll be removed?


Slint approves of me! | "This is Newgrounds.com, not Disney.com" - WadeFulp
"Sit look rub panda" - Alan Davies

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Masculine
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 01:36:47 Reply

Looks great! I'm liking the transitional layout.

It's amazing what plain CSS can now do. Everything used to have to be background images.


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liljim
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 05:17:34 Reply

At 9/17/16 12:29 AM, Ganon-Dorf wrote: I can't find the classic portal, this makes me sad.

It's staring you right in the face!

Layout Changes!

liljim
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 05:22:22 Reply

At 9/17/16 05:03 PM, armydanywolf wrote: Lots of stuff.

You clearly haven't looked at any of this ON a mobile device. It's a very different layout between the two already and functionality befits mobile and desktop appropriately.

Layout Changes!

ihaveacrushonalphys
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 07:24:06 Reply

I Can Use NewGrounds On Phone!?

Kill Me.

Khifa
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 08:41:56 Reply

omg yasssssssssssssssss


 

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ZagmenO
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 10:19:56 Reply

That Trump vs Clinton thing had me cracking up!


I laugh at your sigs!

Ganon-Dorf
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 12:24:22 Reply

At 9/18/16 05:17 AM, liljim wrote:
At 9/17/16 12:29 AM, Ganon-Dorf wrote: I can't find the classic portal, this makes me sad.
It's staring you right in the face!

This made my morning, thanks liljim!


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TomFulp
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 19:37:32 Reply

At 9/17/16 06:22 PM, demon1000 wrote: Hey @Tomfulp I saw the Newgrounds API System and I was Wondering. . . Is is possible To Put medals Into HTML5 Games now?

Yup, using the new API:

http://www.newgrounds.io


This is the game JohnnyUtah, Spazkid and I have been working on.

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SeeInTheDark
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 21:46:05 (edited 2016-09-18 21:47:55) Reply

At 9/16/16 04:08 PM, Psychopath wrote:
At 9/16/16 11:36 AM, TomFulp wrote: 7) Those big voting changes are still coming; lots of data is being shuffled to get us there. You will have a single voting point on content pages, vs the current system where you use the Pico vote bar and then the stars to add a score with your review. You'll also be able to edit your scores. If you're curious about what votes you've already logged, check out your private voting history.
I never liked this idea of watering down the voting system by mixing it with reviews. Please do not do this.

My opinion is that when titles were removed from reviews, there was a significant shift towards glib, meaningless comments rather than constructive criticism and thoughtful praise. It's not like all reviews were essays before then -- far from it -- but newcomers got reviews confused with YouTube comments when they no longer had to put a title.

Also Portal Button Should Be First. People scanning Left to Right will settle on Games or Movies first and disregard Portal button.

That being said, Portal button is awesome!


x

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ThorM1
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-18 23:48:05 Reply

I kinda get the impression that by the time your done I won't know how to use the site anymore, but since I already don't know what half the buttons do, it probably won't matter that much. So have fun.

TomFulp
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-19 09:18:53 Reply

At 9/17/16 05:33 PM, chris-the-stick2 wrote: my only concerns so far, are for the (even more) changes to the voting system.
what will happen now?
we will be able to vote on movies/games, but we will earn ONLY 1 EXP point per day?
that sounds odd, and kinda wrong. (for the frequent voters, that is..)
also, in which way will the reviews change?
and how will the new voting system work?

You currently earn 2XP when you vote on a submission and zero XP when you review it.

Under the new system, you'll still get 2XP when you vote on a submission and zero XP for reviewing it. However, your vote for the submission will be the same score that shows up on your review, vs the current system where we have two vote bars on every page.


This is the game JohnnyUtah, Spazkid and I have been working on.

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TomFulp
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-19 09:24:40 Reply

At 9/17/16 05:03 PM, armydanywolf wrote:
At 9/16/16 11:36 AM, TomFulp wrote: Let me know if any of the changes in particular are freaking you out or if you're excited to come along for the ride!
all of them, if they are done only to accomodate mobile users...

what is easier to use on mobile devices is illogical on everything else.
the site layout always seemed perfect and thought-out, with lots of small details.
if it will become "mobile-friendly", it will become the same as every other site recently.
every button and text will have to be unnecessarily gigantic, every page will have to have no horizontal scrollbar, and a really simple vertical structure with nothing on the sides. also that horribly annoying crap when pages have dynamic width, so the content gets squeezed in the middle on smaller resolutions, instead of having a horizontal scrollbar and the same placement.

It's already clear that this isn't what is happening. View this page on desktop and you'll see that it is nearly identical to the previous layout, only it is less graphics and HTML intensive so it loads faster and is easier to make changes to on our end:

http://www.newgrounds.com/collection

If you load that via mobile, you'll see what @liljim posted in his reply. The page does render in two different ways based on your platform.

why cant the dropdowns just appear on hovering AND clicking? i just now noticed clicking the buttons themselves doesnt open the same page as the top menü item, so the best way would be if the buttons had two states:

The 2012 layout was the only NG layout to ever have dropdown menus in the nav and we never really liked them and have always wanted to remove them - that decision isn't related to mobile since mobile users don't have a visible nav.


This is the game JohnnyUtah, Spazkid and I have been working on.

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GumGums
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-19 15:49:59 Reply

u no wut? I loved playing Games on Newgrounds in the Playstation 4 LOL. I hope the games working on the mobile phonethough :DD


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Jackho
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-20 05:33:03 (edited 2016-09-20 05:40:17) Reply

Took the mobile-friendly pages for a test drive. On my phone and obviously on desktop they're fine, I like how the top bar follows when scrolling and I really don't like drop down menus in general so good riddance. Still not big on the flat visuals though - it seems a small thing, but NG has this annoying image of being an "old" site in an unattractive way and I'm always sort of afraid it'll get pushed farther into that, so I'm not convinced the minimal design (not minimal design in general, just specifically what's on the collections page right now) won't do just that, through looking more rudimentary.

Actual issue here: Using it on an ipad though the collections page doesn't load correctly, with each bit of text loading on top of eachother rather than being spaced out horizontally. Using safari and a slightly older version of iOS, so it could just be me. (@liljim?)

Though FWIW, the rest of the site other than the drop down menus is basically already as good as it can be on a tablet, and it's just frustrating when you get forced into a mobile site when it's not necessary. I find adaptive mobile-friendly sites are the bane of the entire internet when using a tablet for that reason, but I digress.

At 9/17/16 05:03 PM, armydanywolf wrote: there is even a site which is a "UNOFFICIAL WEB APP" for mobiles: http://newgroundsmobile.com/

I just remembered this exists as well, it's outdated now but I still like it, probably more than I like the current mobile-friendly pages. There's an unofficial app that I think is also by @armydanywolf, could that be a viable alternative?

An official app, I mean. Youtube and some other places like Crunchyroll and Netflix makes most of their money and views through the apps with less users on desktop and very few users actually using the mobile version of the sites in a browser, allowing unblockable ads and more convenient ways to sign up for subscriptions. @tomfulp I can't imagine you haven't thought of this, what's the verdict?

Mobile optimized sites are always still very very awkward and never the optimal way to view content on those devices, and I don't think new users are likely to settle in that way. On the other hand I rarely have an issue with the apps (well, save for youtube specifically & their incessant need to constantly shuffle the UI around and make every action require more clicks with every update). I suppose the mobile friendly site has to come anyway and is probably overdue, it just feels more like a sidestep than real progress right now.

(pic is a screenshot of what it looks like on the ipad, here's another screen of the bottom of the page)

Layout Changes!


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liljim
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-20 06:58:36 Reply

At 9/20/16 05:33 AM, Jackho wrote: Actual issue here: Using it on an ipad though the collections page doesn't load correctly, with each bit of text loading on top of eachother rather than being spaced out horizontally. Using safari and a slightly older version of iOS, so it could just be me. (@liljim?)

Looks fine on current versions.

Though FWIW, the rest of the site other than the drop down menus is basically already as good as it can be on a tablet, and it's just frustrating when you get forced into a mobile site when it's not necessary. I find adaptive mobile-friendly sites are the bane of the entire internet when using a tablet for that reason, but I digress.

We're planning on allowing you to break out of mobile versions (show desktop version), so that should satisfy that gripe.

Layout Changes!

HipnikDragomir
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-20 12:22:02 Reply

At 9/16/16 11:36 AM, TomFulp wrote: 1) One of the most important is the Classic Portal, which tons of people have always wanted to see back in the header. LOOK! It's back!

I love you

3) Eventually we intend to have the Portal be a real-time feed of all incoming animation, games, art and music, at which point Classic Portal would be secondary for OGs. HOWEVER we'll make the classic judgment list more accessible

I love you more!

Tom, these are all wonderful updates. Kudos to everyone working their butts off.


This is my signature. It is a nice signature.

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armydanywolf
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-20 22:32:41 Reply

At 9/19/16 09:24 AM, TomFulp wrote: It's already clear that this isn't what is happening. View this page on desktop and you'll see that it is nearly identical to the previous layout, only it is less graphics and HTML intensive so it loads faster and is easier to make changes to on our end:

http://www.newgrounds.com/collection

If you load that via mobile, you'll see what @liljim posted in his reply. The page does render in two different ways based on your platform.

but wasnt the voting system going to change to accommodate mobile users?
i was afraid for a while that newgrounds will change similar to how most websites changed. its hard to find an active website that isnt designed for mobiles now.
it wasnt really clear for me what is going to happen (and neither for Corpsecrank i guess)
sorry if i bitched needlessly

At 9/18/16 05:22 AM, liljim wrote: You clearly haven't looked at any of this ON a mobile device. It's a very different layout between the two already and functionality befits mobile and desktop appropriately.

well, i dont have a smartphone, so i didnt know that. sorry
but thank you for having two separate layouts, most of other sites wouldnt care

anyways, somewhat offtopic but it was kindof ignored the last time i mentioned it.
there are these layout conditional comment things in the site html, like:

<!--[if lte IE 6]>
	<link rel="stylesheet" href="http://css.ngfiles.com/ie6.css" type="text/css" media="screen" />
	<![endif]-->

but on older browsers and explorer the site wont really work anyways, at least on the flash pages, because older things and explorer dont have the console object defined by default, so the first "console.log" in the code will give an error and prevent everything under it from executing... defining the console if it doesnt exist, like this for example:

if(typeof console === "undefined") {
    console = {
        log: function() { },
    };
}

would probably make it work for everyone. it would be a shame, or how to say, to leave it like this when its so easy to fix.
but dont want to bother anyone if its not possible somewhy

Phractle
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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-21 05:57:19 Reply

Newgrounds should start a college.


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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-21 09:04:31 Reply

At 9/20/16 10:32 PM, armydanywolf wrote: but wasnt the voting system going to change to accommodate mobile users?
i was afraid for a while that newgrounds will change similar to how most websites changed. its hard to find an active website that isnt designed for mobiles now.

The voting changes will make for a better mobile layout but it's a change we've been teasing about for the past decade - it has always felt weird that users vote on a submission and then vote again when they write a review. We switched to one vote per user per submission not too long ago, which has helped fight zero bombing but has also brought the regular voting more in line with the review voting, where both are a single score you apply to each submission.

anyways, somewhat offtopic but it was kindof ignored the last time i mentioned it.
there are these layout conditional comment things in the site html, like:

<!--[if lte IE 6]>
<link rel="stylesheet" href="http://css.ngfiles.com/ie6.css" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<![endif]-->

but on older browsers and explorer the site wont really work anyways, at least on the flash pages, because older things and explorer dont have the console object defined by default, so the first "console.log" in the code will give an error and prevent everything under it from executing... defining the console if it doesnt exist, like this for example:

if(typeof console === "undefined") {
console = {
log: function() { },
};
}

I'll leave this one for @liljim and @psychogoldfish to look at.


This is the game JohnnyUtah, Spazkid and I have been working on.

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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-21 09:39:17 Reply

May I suggest that you guys add a Synthwave or Retrowave category when submitting music, so it's easier to find '80s inspired tunes! :D

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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-21 11:26:18 Reply

At 9/21/16 09:39 AM, Slintas wrote: May I suggest that you guys add a Synthwave or Retrowave category when submitting music, so it's easier to find '80s inspired tunes! :D

Long overdue!

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/browse/genre/synthwave


This is the game JohnnyUtah, Spazkid and I have been working on.

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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-21 12:00:21 Reply

At 9/21/16 11:26 AM, TomFulp wrote:
At 9/21/16 09:39 AM, Slintas wrote: May I suggest that you guys add a Synthwave or Retrowave category when submitting music, so it's easier to find '80s inspired tunes! :D
Long overdue!

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/browse/genre/synthwave

Awesome! Thank you.

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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-21 12:08:14 Reply

At 9/21/16 11:26 AM, TomFulp wrote:
At 9/21/16 09:39 AM, Slintas wrote: May I suggest that you guys add a Synthwave or Retrowave category when submitting music, so it's easier to find '80s inspired tunes! :D
Long overdue!

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/browse/genre/synthwave

Retroactively threw us all in to boot, fuck yeah!

Can this day get any better?

Layout Changes!


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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-21 12:18:57 Reply

At 9/21/16 09:04 AM, TomFulp wrote:
At 9/20/16 10:32 PM, armydanywolf wrote: anyways, somewhat offtopic but it was kindof ignored the last time i mentioned it.
there are these layout conditional comment things in the site html, like:

<!--[if lte IE 6]>
<link rel="stylesheet" href="http://css.ngfiles.com/ie6.css" type="text/css" media="screen" />
<![endif]-->

but on older browsers and explorer the site wont really work anyways, at least on the flash pages, because older things and explorer dont have the console object defined by default, so the first "console.log" in the code will give an error and prevent everything under it from executing... defining the console if it doesnt exist, like this for example:

if(typeof console === "undefined") {
console = {
log: function() { },
};
}
I'll leave this one for @liljim and @psychogoldfish to look at.

We are, simply, not supporting old versions of IE. Not even Microsoft supports that stuff anymore. That mentality sets the web back from utilizing things like css3, html5, etc. Even if things like console.log did get supported, you would still have rendering errors all over where we use things like flexbox, and countless other javascript incompatibilities.

If you are stuck on a super old computer, you should still be able to use firefox and chrome, which DO have modern support.


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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-21 13:01:23 Reply

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/browse/genre/synthwave
Retroactively threw us all in to boot, fuck yeah!

Can this day get any better?

Tom is a good fella.

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Response to Layout Changes! 2016-09-21 14:23:21 Reply

At 9/21/16 12:08 PM, AliceMako wrote:
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/browse/genre/synthwave
Retroactively threw us all in to boot, fuck yeah!

Can this day get any better?

Just a little longer and you'll be able to let it PLAY ALL on that list while you sit back and listen. :)


This is the game JohnnyUtah, Spazkid and I have been working on.

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