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Stereo audio recording, anyone?

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Stereo audio recording, anyone? 2016-06-16 15:03:53


I am deeply upset there seems to be little to no support for stereo USB microphones. Unless you buy a dedicated audio card, most PC's have no stereo input on the mobo, just an 1/8" mono in jack. Microsoft doesn't even seem to have any generic drivers that accommodate stereo input devices...

It seems foolish to spend over a 100$ on a Blue stereo mic, when the reviews on build quality are mixed, and the bass quality just low enough to be noticeable. The lesser Blue mics will output 2 channels, but they're both from the same condenser.

China does make some USB adapters that can accept mono and stereo plug inputs, but I'm sure the signal-to-noise ratio would be affected by plugging in an analog device so close to electronics. And personally, most of my best mics are in off-standard plugs, which require an adapter anyway.

Just throwing this rant out here before I go spending a wad on something not up to my specs. I'd appreciate any input lol from any readers out there, that believe in at least 2 channel IRL audio recording, and have setups they're proud of.


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Response to Stereo audio recording, anyone? 2016-06-16 15:11:55


Response to Stereo audio recording, anyone? 2016-06-16 15:32:49


At 6/16/16 03:11 PM, BrokenDeck wrote: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=asus+usb+sound&N=-1&isNodeId=1

I think what stymies me the most, is the ambiguous way these products are (lazily) described... usually after it's been translated into English, by uninformed, overworked/underpaid employee. Gonna have to look at the reviews and hope it does what I think it does. I can see an 1/8" input, dunno if it's stereo, and 2 grills that look like condenser mics (also not an indication of stereo output). Does look promising, sorta, seems the plug is meant for gaming headsets, in which case, the stereo in would be mono in and mono, possibly stereo out

It's like pulling teeth.... you actually own this product Decky?


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Response to Stereo audio recording, anyone? 2016-06-16 15:37:03


At 6/16/16 03:32 PM, VicariousE wrote: It's like pulling teeth.... you actually own this product Decky?

No I use a M-Audio professional recording interface.

Are you on a budget?

Response to Stereo audio recording, anyone? 2016-06-16 22:29:11


At 6/16/16 03:37 PM, BrokenDeck wrote:
At 6/16/16 03:32 PM, VicariousE wrote: It's like pulling teeth.... you actually own this product Decky?
No I use a M-Audio professional recording interface.

Used to be known as MIDIman... then got sucked up by Avid, I've heard of them, but nothing recently. Oh, sorry I called you @Decky, after I walked away I remembered he's a mod here...

Are you on a budget?

Sort of, don't wanna spend more than a C note. Sure as hell ain't gonna sell the caddy for a mic though.
And thanks for the link, seems there's more than 1 way into newegg's product database, something I've already lost a few hours to, in trying to find an acceptable microphone, in an unacceptable marketplace.


Vault 101 I have many old and deleted Flash submissions, PM me the filename, maybe I got it.

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Response to Stereo audio recording, anyone? 2016-06-16 22:36:45


what kind of source material are you recording in stereo? what's your signal chain look like before you get to a recording device (if you're recording a line from other devices' outputs)?


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Response to Stereo audio recording, anyone? 2016-06-16 23:31:34


At 6/16/16 10:36 PM, midimachine wrote: what kind of source material are you recording in stereo? what's your signal chain look like before you get to a recording device (if you're recording a line from other devices' outputs)?

Mainly voice/voices in a small 8x12' studio setting, likely some foley work as well as stand alone instruments.
Straight to the computer/recording device. I'm an old fart who's tired of lousy s/n ratios, though certainly modern electronics have done well to minimize bleed. I can coddle any mic within reason.
If most of my stuff wasn't crammed into storage, I'd likely have gambled on a sound card that accepts many different inputs, that would accommodate damn near all my old audio gear (no tubes sadly). Just wanna actually get a plug n play stereo mic, who knew that would be a such a chore?! Used to love using them in the field attached to a videocamera, made the subjects really come alive, sadly never owned one, used to aim it in parallel with my head (hipsterrant)

If I ever get to the next Pico Day, I'm damn well bringing my Seinheiser shotgun mic for the streaming camera |:

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The reason why stereo USB mics don't exist and/or are not good, is because stereo mics in general don't really exist. In all professional recording applications, an array of two (binaural) or sometimes more mics are used to create the stereo field. There are stereo microphones out there, particularly condensed "Mid-Side" arrays, but keep in mind, these are actually two mics inside of a single capsule, and typically require a special adapter.

A few common mics- I know Shure makes a stereo mic, but it is quite expensive. Probably the best value for a low price out there is the Rode Stereo Video Mic, but this isn't intended for studio recording. As I discuss below at the end, there are also handheld interfaces that have built-in stereo arrays (typically XY, or in a few cases, Mid-Side).

There are a number of approaches to stereo recording with two mics. This depends partly on the type of microphone in use (large diaphragm condenser/LDC VS. small diaphragm condenser/SDC) and the type of "polar pattern" or directional response of the microphone (cardioid VS omni). Shure (mic manufacturer) has a nice webpage on this.

So... two mics? Low S/N? How do?

You're going to need mics that use XLR cables, and likely condenser mics at that. XLR cables are like super-duper 1/4" cables- they protect the signal from noise and hum from electromagnetic emissions and other issues (which 1/4" and 1/8" cables do NOT do), and can provide power to the microphone to power circuitry inside it.

To get XLR analog audio data into your digital sound card, you're also going to need an audio interface. Focusrite just released a new generation of their excellent entry/mid-level audio Scarlett line. I honestly wouldn't go for an interface any cheaper than that unless you want it to fall apart or have poor S/N or other issues, but you are welcome to check out local thrift stores, antique shops, tag sales, etc. in your area- you might just find a functioning USB interface: just remember, it needs two XLR ports to do stereo!

As far as mics, it depends on what you are recording. For vocals or such, it is much more common to use LDC's than SDC's. LDC's respond slower, but have a warmer sound and fuller low-end. SDC's respond very well to high, fast, and loud, and have a very clear and accurate high-end, but often lack in warmth, especially at entry-level models. SDC's work excellent on pianos, drums, guitars, small percussion, and quite well on all types of instrumental ensembles. LDC's work best on voices, woodwinds, low brass, low strings, and instrumental ensembles.

If you just need a general all-around solution for things like, recording a small group quickly with just two mics, then maybe a Rode M5 pair would suffice. A super-cheap LDC pair might be a set of Samson C01's (pretty much a repurposed USB mic). For better results, the AKG P220 or a Rode NT1-A will do, but getting a pair will be considerably more expensive. I'd recommend recording pop-type vocals in mono with an NT1-A or such. It is, in my opinion, the best value LDC in that price bracket.

This stuff is expensive if you are not into pro audio! But, it is an investment that must be made if you are after stereo and at least passable quality.

Another possible approach is using a hybrid interface-mic design, like the Zoom H line. These handheld interfaces can actually be used as an audio device when left plugged into your computer, and have a stereo array built in (not to mention do quite well in the field away from your computer, whilst fitting in your pocket, unlike traditional interfaces, which require power and do not fit in pockets). This might be your best bet for the most affordable option, but again, these are SDC's and there is only so much quality you can fit into a smaller box.


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At 6/17/16 01:17 AM, samulis wrote: The reason why stereo USB mics don't exist and/or are not good, is because stereo mics in general don't really exist.

Ideally they shouldn't exist at all, but my previous audio experiences were largely in the field. It was only after you mentioned a certain type of plug, I had to check and see... yup, we used powered 3 pin connectors that went into the control room's Sony mixing suite. All the studio cables had to be coiled/stored at an exact circumference/diameter, so the audio signal through the long line wouldn't be put out of whack and have to be chucked.

A few common mics- I know Shure makes a stereo mic, but it is quite expensive. Probably the best value for a low price out there is the Rode Stereo Video Mic, but this isn't intended for studio recording. As I discuss below at the end, there are also handheld interfaces that have built-in stereo arrays (typically XY, or in a few cases, Mid-Side).

Ah, now that is precisely the sucker (Shure stereo mic) I was thinking about! The producer I worked with owned it, but could never do decent interviews with it, and to think the man actually bagged game in life with those aiming skills.

There are a number of approaches to stereo recording with two mics. This depends partly on the type of microphone in use (large diaphragm condenser/LDC VS. small diaphragm condenser/SDC) and the type of "polar pattern" or directional response of the microphone (cardioid VS omni). Shure (mic manufacturer) has a nice webpage on this.

Old news to me, but thanks for getting it out there. It almost looked like technobabble, but 20+ years ago was almost second nature to me.

So... two mics? Low S/N? How do?

You're going to need mics that use XLR cables

In a proper 20th century studio I agree, 100% but since I haven't been to a studio recently, I guess (assumed) that there were digital 'analogs' of those old tool sets... guess most of that's downstream, eh?

To get XLR analog audio data into your digital sound card, you're also going to need an audio interface. Focusrite just released a new generation of their excellent entry/mid-level audio Scarlett line. I honestly wouldn't go for an interface any cheaper than that unless you want it to fall apart or have poor S/N or other issues, but you are welcome to check out local thrift stores, antique shops, tag sales, etc. in your area- you might just find a functioning USB interface: just remember, it needs two XLR ports to do stereo!

Boy don't I know that, the local cable access studio (where I worked in the 90's) was armed for bear, but since only milquetoasters with 2 mics max would ever produce there... I only covered one full size (7 piece, no horns) rock band while I was there, every line in I could get was on the board, sounded fucking marvelous too. But by that time I had the acoustics there pretty well figured out, like fish in a barrel.

As far as mics, it depends on what you are recording. For vocals or such, it is much more common to use LDC's than SDC's. LDC's respond slower, but have a warmer sound and fuller low-end. SDC's respond very well to high, fast, and loud, and have a very clear and accurate high-end, but often lack in warmth, especially at entry-level models. SDC's work excellent on pianos, drums, guitars, small percussion, and quite well on all types of instrumental ensembles. LDC's work best on voices, woodwinds, low brass, low strings, and instrumental ensembles.

Hadn't considered that, and I thank you for the insight. A guy here had some pop/crash problems with a built-in mic on his laptop, I suggested a small sandbag of sorts, should've also recommended playing outside or opening apertures/absorbing surfaces... I usually link RicePirate's don't sound shitty vid, if there's a need.

If you just need a general all-around solution for things like, recording a small group quickly with just two mics, then maybe a Rode M5 pair would suffice. A super-cheap LDC pair might be a set of Samson C01's (pretty much a repurposed USB mic). For better results, the AKG P220 or a Rode NT1-A will do, but getting a pair will be considerably more expensive. I'd recommend recording pop-type vocals in mono with an NT1-A or such. It is, in my opinion, the best value LDC in that price bracket.

Yeah, again the kicker is I'd have to either go old school, and know the point to point outcome, or hope I can find some mics and a driver that will actually record 2 line ins... In my searching I've seen some bad reviews due to bad or missing drivers, and only mono drivers in Windows. I really can't justify taking the old and proven high road, the tolls are a bit too steep. So it's gonna have to be what passes for prosumer digital these days. It's likely I can buy two cheapie USB mics, and be able to record both channels at once without too much digital bodging.

This stuff is expensive if you are not into pro audio! But, it is an investment that must be made if you are after stereo and at least passable quality.

It is and you're right, I've never owned any pro audio gear, only high end 1/8 and quarter inch plugables, due to high prices and mediocre returns (for productions that weren't terribly expensive).

Another possible approach is using a hybrid interface-mic design, like the Zoom H line. These handheld interfaces can actually be used as an audio device when left plugged into your computer, and have a stereo array built in (not to mention do quite well in the field away from your computer, whilst fitting in your pocket, unlike traditional interfaces, which require power and do not fit in pockets). This might be your best bet for the most affordable option, but again, these are SDC's and there is only so much quality you can fit into a smaller box.

I still have some decent lapel mics (no pairs sadly), but the studio had the best ones, great bass reproduction, but oh so pricey! You linked some interesting equipment, can't wait to browse around from there!

You've given me much more information than I hoped to expect here, thank you so much for taking the time to straighten my perspective out, point me in the right directions.


Vault 101 I have many old and deleted Flash submissions, PM me the filename, maybe I got it.

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Response to Stereo audio recording, anyone? 2016-06-17 11:51:42


At 6/17/16 04:58 AM, VicariousE wrote: You've given me much more information than I hoped to expect here, thank you so much for taking the time to straighten my perspective out, point me in the right directions.

No problem!

Yes, the technical aspect of the industry hasn't changed much. XLR is such an ingenious design, I don't think it will be going away for at least another 50-70 years. Hell, I'll probably be dead before it kicks the bucket.

The last 10-15 years have seen a huge market open up for the small studio- these little USB interfaces, affordable but still very professional microphones, you name it. You can do professional sounding multi-mic recording of a full band with 8+ mics with under $1,000 in equipment (and, as Ricepirate says, the right space!) nowadays, which is just wild. :)

So yeah, figure out how important each point is (stereo, S/N, mobility, reliability, affordability, etc.) and go from there.


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Response to Stereo audio recording, anyone? 2016-06-17 13:23:31


At 6/17/16 11:51 AM, samulis wrote: Yes, the technical aspect of the industry hasn't changed much. XLR is such an ingenious design, I don't think it will be going away for at least another 50-70 years. Hell, I'll probably be dead before it kicks the bucket.

I've seen those plugs on rug suckers, conveyor systems, trailer hookups, you name it! Which reminds me, I really need to get a BNC adapter to get some stuff off 3/4 U-Matic videotapes before it's too late

The last 10-15 years have seen a huge market open up for the small studio- these little USB interfaces, affordable but still very professional microphones, you name it. You can do professional sounding multi-mic recording of a full band with 8+ mics with under $1,000 in equipment (and, as Ricepirate says, the right space!) nowadays, which is just wild. :)

By the end of this weekend I hope to find something adequate.

So yeah, figure out how important each point is (stereo, S/N, mobility, reliability, affordability, etc.) and go from there.

All important points, especially reliability, since they're making the shit so tiny... and forget about finding schematics any more, used to be easier to order them through the mail, than it is to find them online these days. S/N shouldn't be a problem, especially when most audio software has tools to noise-cancel any persistent sounds, by providing a sample of 'quiet'.


Vault 101 I have many old and deleted Flash submissions, PM me the filename, maybe I got it.

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