assult weapons ban

[mabzie]

its pointless.

[mrpopenfresh]

Tell me, what do you do with an assault weapon? Hunt rabbits?

[tadpole-warrior]

its also pointless to shot people with an asult gun, but it still happens.

[mabzie]

So, let’s look at a few reasons that people own military style rifles.

First of all, military rifles are easy to operate. They are ergonomically designed so that people of every shape and size can use them. Military rifles are generally lightweight, so they are easy to carry and hold. They are also designed so that an individual can become proficient with them after a minimal amount of instruction. The military style rifles that can be purchased by the public incorporate these same design features.

By the nature of their original purpose, military rifles are designed to be reliable. They have to be able to function in virtually every type of environment, whether it is snow, rain, mud, or sand. Civilian versions of these weapons feature similar reliability because they are built to the same manufacturing specifications.

Military style rifles are fun to shoot. They don’t have much recoil, so they don’t hurt your shoulder the way some other rifles do. (Shotguns come to mind!) Military style rifles shoot ammunition that is used by many countries. The military rifles of the United States typically use cartridges that have been adopted by all of our NATO allies and are manufactured around the world. The AK family of military style rifles uses cartridges that are manufactured in China or the former Soviet Union. The result of this is that ammunition for military style rifles is readily available, and relatively inexpensive. Therefore you can shoot military style rifles quite a bit without “breaking the bank.”

Another feature for many enthusiasts is the availability of “after market” accessories for military style rifles. From flashlight attachments, to specialized optics, there are a tremendous number of products and gadgets available to customize or improve the operation of a military style rifle.

From a practical standpoint, military rifles are very accurate. This fact makes them useful to certain groups of hunters and competitive shooters alike. Specialized competitions designed for military style rifles are increasing in popularity. These “practical” competitions are timed events that require the shooter to fire at multiple targets at a variety of distances and locations. Full capacity magazines, (also banned by the 1994 act) are a requirement for this type of competition since every re-load costs a couple of seconds.

Let’s not ignore the value of these rifles for personal defense. With the right type of ammunition, military style rifles can be a very effective defensive weapon. Many police agencies have recognized their value and have adopted their use in close quarter tactical operations. In these post 9/11 days, prudent Americans recognize that we are all vulnerable and should be prepared to defend ourselves, our families, our communities, and our country from threats that can strike us anytime and anyplace. A well-trained person, armed with a military style rifle can provide a deterrent and, if necessary, an effective defense. Full capacity magazines, whether for rifles or pistols, are also very important in this role, particularly in a situation where a homeowner finds him/herself facing multiple attackers.

Military style rifles are well designed and very reliable. They are fun and economical to shoot. They can be easily “customized.” They are accurate and they can also provide an effective defense for yourself and your loved ones.
The real question should be: Why wouldn’t you want to own one?

[gem1]

I am against gun control in general but I have mixed feelings about assult rifles. I would consider a little more strict rules in ownership for one reason. They can be a little tough for law enforcement to stop some one with an assult rifle. I think you should need to prove either a need or a serrious hobby interest and prove stable and healthy environment both mentally and physically. I don't think they should be taken away because they are people with genuine hobby intrest in it. But that is not to say we should just let anyone have one. I have firred one before and they make great holes for planting tulips bulbs in the yard!

One thing I think people miss too is that the .22 long rifle from K-Mart is can be one of the most dangerous rifles. 1 shot, accurate to drop an apple at 100 yards, quit enough it would be hard to tell where it came from.

[mrpopenfresh]

At 6/21/04 05:02 PM, mabzie wrote: blah blah

Thats some mighty fine copy/paste there.

The real question should be: Why wouldn’t you want to own one?

Hmmmmm, thats a toughie. Maybe because they can fall in the hands of a robber who jacked it from my house.

[mrpopenfresh]

Ah, the joys of google.

http://www.awbansunset.com/whyown.html

beotch I PWN J00, W00T!!

[Wraith]

mrpopenfresh, copy/paste ninja and n00b pimper. BANZAI!!!!

[StatiK]

At 6/21/04 05:02 PM, mabzie wrote: "Why a person would want to own an assault rifle"

You stated (copied and pasted) all the reasons why an assault weapon is a nice gun. And it is a very nice gun. But you didn't say why people would want or need such a nice gun. There are only a few reasons.

One is collection. You might think that a gun collector would want one, but I doubt it. AK47's and M16's are extremely mass-produced items of weaponry, and have almost no collection value. It would be like someone who collects cigars having a Marlboro Red cigarette in their collection.

Another possible reason is hunting. An assault rifle is completely unnecessary in hunting. You completely remove the sport from it. You take out all the challenge, the skill, and the tactics, which are the real draws to hunting. It gives the human almost every possible advantage against the animal, which also makes it inhumane. It's much easier to kill the animal, so more animals would be killed. You could take out a herd of buffalo with that thing. All you really need to kill a deer or two is a decent rifle.

Competitive shooters could want one, but again, it's unnecessary. A competition would be just as competitive, if not more so, with lower powered rifles.

Personal defense: if you're in a situation where an ordinary handgun isn't enough to protect you, run away and call the fucking police. An ordinary citizen doesn't have to be able to thwart a bank robbery or a terrorist plot. That's the police's duty. 5 men with shotguns aren't going to come into your house, steal your property, and hurt your family. And if you're one of the rare people that they're going to do that to, hire some trained body guards.

So, overall, there are very few justifyable reasons why a legitimate person would want an assault rifle. They have no collection value, they're completely unnecessary for hunting, they're unnecessary for competition, and they're unnecessary for personal defense. The main demographic that would buy this type of weapon would be major, violent criminals. A criminal with an AK47 is exponentially more dangerous than a criminal with a handgun or another type of gun. Making these guns legal would cause civilian deaths, and police deaths, and provide only a tiny benefit to the general population.

[gem1]

It would be cool to have a place that could rent them on their range so people could at least have the oportunity to fire them and see what they are really like. Wouldn't it be great if they also had a vaiety of canons you could try? How about an old style WWI canon. Wonder what it would cost? Wouldn't you hate to live next door? Hu, can't hear you for the blood coming from my EARS!

[Gabe]

If you really want to use assault rifles so badly why don't you join the army?

[stafffighter]

There are target ranges that allow the in range rental of assault weaponry. Here's an example of one a little bit away from where I live. www.gunsnh.com
But seriosely, what practicle use is a civilian going to have for one of these things? none, this is why.

1. There are hunting guns made to be releiable, comfortable, accurate and powerful. These things are made for this purpose. Assume they have some ability in it.

2. if you have so many people attacking your home that you need an assult rifle to defend it odds are you have it comeing to you.

[NoHitHair]

You know, the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution wasn't put in there for the hell of it - it had very good reasons. I recommend the Federalist Papers as evidence of that.

The 2nd Amendment was intended to protect oneself from the government, not necessarily each other. If we don't have strong enough weapons to combat a possible tyranny of a governmental structure, then in reality, they own us. Money may be the backing force of the world, but bullets shred paper.

Realistically, would the government ever impose a permanent martial law? Who knows. But is any protection we had against them as a populous destroyed? Absolutely. Laws don't mean shit when you have a Howitzer pointed at your house.

[stafffighter]

If the government ever decides to take people on then random people with guns will not defeat trained and fully euqiped units of soldiers. As for martial law. While others are still decideing if the country is going to become mad max or terminator I I will fly away to another land.

[mabzie]

At 6/21/04 06:39 PM, GDevlin77 wrote: If you really want to use assault rifles so badly why don't you join the army?

if you want gun control so bad, why dont you move to china?

[StatiK]

At 6/21/04 07:22 PM, NoHitHair wrote: You know, the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution wasn't put in there for the hell of it - it had very good reasons. I recommend the Federalist Papers as evidence of that.

The 2nd Amendment was intended to protect oneself from the government, not necessarily each other. If we don't have strong enough weapons to combat a possible tyranny of a governmental structure, then in reality, they own us. Money may be the backing force of the world, but bullets shred paper.

Realistically, would the government ever impose a permanent martial law? Who knows. But is any protection we had against them as a populous destroyed? Absolutely. Laws don't mean shit when you have a Howitzer pointed at your house.

That's the first decent argument I've heard, but I think it's still better that they're outlawed. Which is better: giving violent criminals a much larger advantage against civilians and the police, or protecting against an extremely unlikely, semi-apocalyptic event? I guess you can decide for yourself. When the Constitution was written, one of the biggest things on the minds of the framers was protecting civilians from a tyrannical government like they experienced in Europe. However, 200 years of American history has shown that civilians have adequate protection from the government (in my opinion). I honestly believe that the American government as a whole is not evil, and has the best interests of America in mind. Therefore I doubt there will ever be a time when an AK47 is truely necessary to defend yourself from the government.

[NoHitHair]

That's the first decent argument I've heard,

Thanks. You're very eloquent yourself.

Which is better: giving violent criminals a much larger advantage against civilians and the police, or protecting against an extremely unlikely, semi-apocalyptic event?

And this is why I have mixed feelings on the subject. I think perhaps because of the direction that society has evolved, suddenly unloading tons of assault weapons to retail stores for anyone to purchase would not be a happy turnout. It may simply be a matter of where society is at the moment - perhaps if crime is reduced enough or the overall mindset evolves, assault weapons would be excellent protection for the average Joe. But as of right now, you're probably right.

[gem1]

I think the purpose now is not as much to protect us from government but to protect us from each other. Police can not protect us, and the world is just too crazy not to have a way of protecting oneself. Most fire arms will do just fine for that (unless you have just withdrawn from the mob against the elders wishes). It is not to say that there is not a genuine intrest in these although you have to draw the line some where. I think assult rifle goes beyond right to bear arms. I also think that some one walking around shooting up the town with a colt 45 can be stopped. Some one in body armor and an assult riffle really hard for law enforcement to stop. That is where even people who do not believe in gun control see a line being drawn or at least more discression.

Even more so, a lot of people who deffend the assult rifle do so not because of the assult riffle itself but realize that if the assult riffle goes, more regs will follow. remember when they came out with the seat belt law they said "OH NO, we are not going to enforce it, we just think it is a good idea". Now you are more likely to get pulled over on a sunday night for a seat belt violation than to see real problems enforced.

[Noctroler]

Guns are tools of murder. Period. They have no other function. The only solution to this conflict is to invent more effective forms of Non-Leathal weapons as forms of personal self defense. Guns that drop an intruded or assailant hard, but don't kill.

[gem1]

At 6/21/04 11:25 PM, Noctroler wrote: Guns are tools of murder. Period. They have no other function. The only solution to this conflict is to invent more effective forms of Non-Leathal weapons as forms of personal self defense. Guns that drop an intruded or assailant hard, but don't kill.

Yea,. lets get some toys so the criminals can murder us at will! Yea, that's it!

[stafffighter]

Dispite what you may think, several of the people here do not carry guns AND have not been murdered.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

You know, criminals sometimes work in groups, they're called gangs. People who do home invasions don't always go alone, a group can be more effective if there's a risk that the homeowner is armed.

Regardless, until your life is threatened, you really don't understand how useful a weapon can be. I'd really like nonlethal weapons if there was a way to make one that worked at both close and medium range and was capable of taking out several people. Something like a flashbang grenade that was directional or something.

[gem1]

I don't carry a gun, but I have one at home. Break my door down and I promise I will show it to you. Just because you don't does not mean no one else can. I can put a sign at my door that says "I have a gun, go to his house instead" is that better? I am just kidding here. Do you have a list of those with guns? You know then?!

At 6/21/04 11:52 PM, stafffighter wrote: Dispite what you may think, several of the people here do not carry guns AND have not been murdered.

[gem1]

It goes back to the basics, you can't regulate judjement, and you can't regulate every move a person makes. With a gun takes responsibility. Guns also provide a lot of great sportmanship and comradery. You may not enjoy blowing holes in inocent paper plates at 100 yards but I love it. The law abiding gun owners are not the problem and never have been. Those who don't have a gun never even apreciate the fact that they benifit from a certain number of guns being in the public. With out the the legal guns, there would be a lot more crime. It is the lower element of society that have no repect for any laws, no respect for themselfs, and no respect for you. If it is easier to shoot you and take their cigarets than to go buy some, they will. Even in rural USA where I live, we have had break in's by the local uneducated meth creators who would shoot you to take a $5. No he is not smart enough to know or plan anything. And the guy on drugs is the most dangerous and the most bold. He will attack any house without a plan of action.

It is not about the guns. It is about the people. We have to bring honor back to society and create better people. We are running out of prisons.

[ReiperX]

At 6/21/04 05:02 PM, mabzie wrote:

I know he just copy and pasted it but I wanna put in my 2 cents anyways. I am in support of ownign assault weapons, with very strict guidlines, background checks, classes, and of course costing some serious money for the liscense (which is how it is now to get a assault weapon liscense)

So, let’s look at a few reasons that people own military style rifles.

First of all, military rifles are easy to operate. They are ergonomically designed so that people of every shape and size can use them. Military rifles are generally lightweight, so they are easy to carry and hold. They are also designed so that an individual can become proficient with them after a minimal amount of instruction. The military style rifles that can be purchased by the public incorporate these same design features.

This fits the AK-47 very nicely, possibly M-4, and a lot of the european assault rifles, but this doesn't describe the M-16. M-16 sucks shooting as a leftie (I shoot both at the range) the cartridge is ejected basically infront of your face as a leftie, and sometimes goes back a litle more than it goes to the side, can get a lil too close for comfort with the round ejecting.

By the nature of their original purpose, military rifles are designed to be reliable. They have to be able to function in virtually every type of environment, whether it is snow, rain, mud, or sand. Civilian versions of these weapons feature similar reliability because they are built to the same manufacturing specifications.

Describes the AK-47 perfectly, and X-90 I believe it is (the very possibly replacement for th M-16 for the army), as well again, as the european assault rifles. The M-16A2 sucks in very fine sandy areas (Iraq for example). Don't know about the M-16A4 since I dont know anyone using one in Iraq right now.

Military style rifles are fun to shoot. They don’t have much recoil, so they don’t hurt your shoulder the way some other rifles do. (Shotguns come to mind!) Military style rifles shoot ammunition that is used by many countries. The military rifles of the United States typically use cartridges that have been adopted by all of our NATO allies and are manufactured around the world. The AK family of military style rifles uses cartridges that are manufactured in China or the former Soviet Union. The result of this is that ammunition for military style rifles is readily available, and relatively inexpensive. Therefore you can shoot military style rifles quite a bit without “breaking the bank.”

They do have a legit point here.

Another feature for many enthusiasts is the availability of “after market” accessories for military style rifles. From flashlight attachments, to specialized optics, there are a tremendous number of products and gadgets available to customize or improve the operation of a military style rifle.

Eh, decent reason

From a practical standpoint, military rifles are very accurate. This fact makes them useful to certain groups of hunters and competitive shooters alike. Specialized competitions designed for military style rifles are increasing in popularity. These “practical” competitions are timed events that require the shooter to fire at multiple targets at a variety of distances and locations. Full capacity magazines, (also banned by the 1994 act) are a requirement for this type of competition since every re-load costs a couple of seconds.

The M-16 is pretty accurate, I can hit a mansized target in the head 9 out of 10 times at 500 yards without a scope. But I still prefere snipeing with a SAW much longer range, but pisses people off when you single shot a machine gun.

Let’s not ignore the value of these rifles for personal defense. With the right type of ammunition, military style rifles can be a very effective defensive weapon. Many police agencies have recognized their value and have adopted their use in close quarter tactical operations. In these post 9/11 days, prudent Americans recognize that we are all vulnerable and should be prepared to defend ourselves, our families, our communities, and our country from threats that can strike us anytime and anyplace. A well-trained person, armed with a military style rifle can provide a deterrent and, if necessary, an effective defense. Full capacity magazines, whether for rifles or pistols, are also very important in this role, particularly in a situation where a homeowner finds him/herself facing multiple attackers.

Assault weapon isn't what I'd want in an indoor enviorment, would prefer to have a shotgun since its close quarters, and maybe a pistol. I'd use an assault rifle at 200+ yards.

The real question should be: Why wouldn’t you want to own one?

I really don't have a problem with people legally owning them as llong as they have the proper liscenses and stuff. I plan on getting the liscense myself when I have the money to put into it. But mainly just for show, don't think I'd ever chamber a round in my home.

[RedSkunk]

At 6/21/04 07:50 PM, mabzie wrote: if you want gun control so bad, why dont you move to china?

Brilliant reply. Just brilliant.

[ReiperX]

At 6/21/04 11:25 PM, Noctroler wrote: Guns are tools of murder. Period. They have no other function.

Hunting, sporting events, self defense, sharp shooting events, defense against other nations, they can hold your door open, they can deterr others from hurting you, they can be used like a golf club, they can be used to burst down a door, they can be used to stop a car, they can be used for many purposes other than murder.

[NoHitHair]

At 6/22/04 12:45 AM, SKUNKbrs wrote:

At 6/21/04 07:50 PM, mabzie wrote: if you want gun control so bad, why dont you move to china?

Brilliant reply. Just brilliant.

I actually laughed out loud at that.

Go Red.

[tadpole-warrior]

At 6/22/04 04:46 AM, silencedintruder wrote: i reallu hope that they dont renew that shity law, however everything you are disscusing right means nothing.

but even besides that, what about tthe huge nationwide illeagal arms trade? if you know the right people you can get twin ingrams cheaper than the gun store!!!!!

another example of a gun weilding maniac. this is why the law is a good one.

[The-Bi99man]

At 6/22/04 12:53 AM, ReiperX wrote:

At 6/21/04 11:25 PM, Noctroler wrote: Guns are tools of murder. Period. They have no other function.

Hunting, sporting events, self defense, sharp shooting events, defense against other nations, they can hold your door open, they can deterr others from hurting you, they can be used like a golf club......

BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Major props to ReiperX, on that one. Ouch.