Why is it so hard to find good language resources online? 9/10 times it's some site trying to sell you a product. In the cases where it's actually a foreign language dictionary, it's not browsable at all but instead only gives you one word per search, which is very slow and the not browsable aspect makes it 90% less useful. Plus you don't even know how accurate the thing is.

In the case you actually do find something somewhat browsable it has such small amount of vocabulary to not be of much use or it's only a sample and they want you to pay to advance further.

I just want some good foreign language dictionaries and resources, dammit! And I don't want to fork over tons of money either. You'd think perhaps one could find pdf files of actual foreign language dictionaries floating around out there somewhere but this proves to be frustratingly difficult as well.

I just want to learn languages, dammit! Or at least try. And I should be able to do that without having to spend huge amounts of money on someone's "language-learning system" or other. I mean if I had some decent browsable dictionaries I could at least make a crack at it. But noo -- apparently that's an online taboo or something and no one provides that -- at least not for free.

The only things free are those "dictionaries" where you have to search the words one-at-a-time, ugh.

At 6/4/16 05:18 AM, NeonSpider wrote: I just want to learn languages, dammit! Or at least try.

Take some classes, either online or offline. You aren't going to learn a language by looking in a dictionary.

At 6/4/16 05:52 AM, LiquidFire wrote:

At 6/4/16 05:18 AM, NeonSpider wrote: I just want to learn languages, dammit! Or at least try.

Take some classes, either online or offline. You aren't going to learn a language by looking in a dictionary.

I have taken classes. They don't do much good. I feel like I could do better on my own. Primarily they never go far enough to actually be useful. Grammar is easy but it's always a lack of vocabulary that causes problems. Take all the language classes you want and you'll still not have enough to be conversational. Or maybe after like five years of classes in a single language, but screw that. Costs too much and takes too long. Plus that's just for one language.

And don't you dare tell me how I can or can't learn! You're not me! I very much can learn from looking in dictionaries, but I need to have them handy to be able to use them. Just because most people might not be able to learn that way doesn't mean I can't. I have an excellent memory. Grammar is the easy part but it's the vocabulary that makes the most difference and that is found in dictionaries, but I need good dictionaries.

Provide me with good pdf files of English-to-other language/other language-to-English dictionaries and other written resources and I'll make good use of them. I don't expect immediate fluency or even anything close, but at the very least it'll help and should progress faster than language classes at any rate. I have every chance of learning languages via that method, at least as much if not moreso than taking classes, and probably faster too.

I mean I made A's in my foreign language classes, and I don't really feel I got anything much out of them. I can't speak in languages other than English. I can maybe understand a few words here or there but that's hardly conversational. With some good dictionary resources I could gain the vocabulary, which is really where I lack.

Telling me to take foreign language classes is really rather asinine though, when I'm asking for online resources. Plus I don't want to learn just one or two languages, but several. And I don't want to take 5 years to learn one language doing it some "official" taking classes way. Repeat for other languages. No thanks. I can do it faster myself *if* I have appropriate resources.

Fact is, it's really rather difficult to find decent online foreign language resources, at least without paying a chunk of money for it. And there's really no reason it should be that way.

At 6/4/16 06:23 AM, NeonSpider wrote: I have taken classes. They don't do much good. I feel like I could do better on my own. Primarily they never go far enough to actually be useful.

Then you either haven't taken the classes long enough or they weren't serious classes.

And don't you dare tell me how I can or can't learn! You're not me!

Are you serious? Don't post on forums if other peoples suggestion hurt your itty bitty feelings.

the vocabulary that makes the most difference and that is found in dictionaries, but I need good dictionaries.

Do you honestly think looking at dictionaries is better at learning how to pronounce words, than talking to someone who speaks the language natively or fluently?

Telling me to take foreign language classes is really rather asinine though, when I'm asking for online resources.

Read what I write before you reply. I mentioned online classes as well.

Fact is, it's really rather difficult to find decent online foreign language resources, at least without paying a chunk of money for it. And there's really no reason it should be that way.

There are plenty of decent free methods of learning languages. Googling "learn language online" will show you quite a bunch.
But if you're really keen on only using dictionaries, then start forking over your money. You can't expect people to make incredible dictionaries only to release them for free. People want money for their work. Besides, if you're seriously want to learn new languages, then using money on proper resources instead of trying to find free crap should be a no brainer.

At 6/4/16 06:52 AM, LiquidFire wrote: Then you either haven't taken the classes long enough or they weren't serious classes.

Oh, they were serious classes, both at the high school and college levels. But you'd need to take at least 5 years or more of those kind of classes to achieve any fluency, and it's very expensive. And besides I've already done enough of that. It's not as if I haven't tried that avenue.

And don't you dare tell me how I can or can't learn! You're not me!

Are you serious? Don't post on forums if other peoples suggestion hurt your itty bitty feelings.

Are you serious!? I'll say it once again. Don't you dare presume you know one thing about how I learn or what my capabilities are. it's nothing about hurt feelings. Quite honestly your suggestions are extremely asinine, assuming that just because *you* can't fathom how *you* might learn languages in a matter I describe, that somehow *I* am incapable of using such methods. In short you're not being helpful at all.

I am asking for particular resources. Either aid me in acquiring said resources or get out. Telling me to pay huge amounts of money to take classes for years is just asinine. I want to learn thing my way. And don't you dare assume what I am or am not capable of.

the vocabulary that makes the most difference and that is found in dictionaries, but I need good dictionaries.

Do you honestly think looking at dictionaries is better at learning how to pronounce words, than talking to someone who speaks the language natively or fluently?

Do you honestly think I would only use dictionaries? The dictionaries would be a starting point. But yes they are required. As for pronunciation, it's actually not that big of a deal, can be fine-tuned later, and besides I'm already quite knowledgeable in IPA, which any dictionary worth its salt will use anyway, and which will tell me precisely how things are pronounced. Although I realize they tend to get those wrong sometimes, but so what? The understanding is the most important part, not the picky details which can come later.

Telling me to take foreign language classes is really rather asinine though, when I'm asking for online resources.

Read what I write before you reply. I mentioned online classes as well.

Read what I write before *you* reply. You have provided no resources for me. Telling me to pay for online classes is no better than telling me to pay for in person classes. You're just being asinine. Unless it's a resource I can access and utilize *for free*, then it absolutely does not meet the criteria of this thread. Period.

Fact is, it's really rather difficult to find decent online foreign language resources, at least without paying a chunk of money for it. And there's really no reason it should be that way.

There are plenty of decent free methods of learning languages. Googling "learn language online" will show you quite a bunch.

No there aren't and no it won't. It will provide plenty of what I wrote in my OP. Nothing actually too useful, once you actually go to try to use the thing. It's all for-pay stuff and/or just a few words or phrases and/or one of those one-word-at-a-time dictionaries, but nothing browsable, and nothing really usable for self-teaching.

But if you're really keen on only using dictionaries, then start forking over your money. You can't expect people to make incredible dictionaries only to release them for free. People want money for their work. Besides, if you're seriously want to learn new languages, then using money on proper resources instead of trying to find free crap should be a no brainer.

If you're not going to be helpful don't bother posting. I'm asking if anyone knows of some decent *free* resources. Clearly you don't. Don't bother posting in this thread again unless you have something useful to contribute.

Memrise is alright for learning basic foundational stuff (important grammar and basic vocabulary) and I hear there's a bunch of similar services like it. Duolingo's also free, supposed to be decent, though I've never used it.

These are good points to start from, but you're complaining about not knowing much vocab, and the only real answer to that is to talk to people in that language. The words that I remember in Russian are the ones that I had to learn when I tried to use them in conversation before realising I had no idea how to say what I wanted to say. iTalki is an app that kinda has this, I think, but it also costs money, so you aren't interested.

I'd say, go learn the basic grammar, then find people to talk to. I'm sure there's a forum somewhere that you can find someone on to speak that language to. You can learn the words you need to talk about what you want to, and if you come across some weird grammar you can look it up. EZ.

At 6/4/16 07:18 AM, NeonSpider wrote: Are you serious!? I'll say it once again. Don't you dare presume you know one thing about how I learn or what my capabilities are. all.

And don't you dare assume what I am or am not capable of.

Thanks for confirming how much of a dense mofo you are.

If you're not going to be helpful don't bother posting. I'm asking if anyone knows of some decent *free* resources. Clearly you don't. Don't bother posting in this thread again unless you have something useful to contribute.

There aren't any resources worth shit that you can get for free, not legally anyway. Considering discussing illegal activity is not allowed on Newgrounds then this forum shouldn't really be here to begin with.

At 6/4/16 12:16 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

At 6/4/16 09:45 AM, LiquidFire wrote: There aren't any resources worth shit that you can get for free, not legally anyway. Considering discussing illegal activity is not allowed on Newgrounds then this forum shouldn't really be here to begin with.

what the heck would an "illegal language tutor" look like anyways? inb4 illegal aliens....

seriously, i'm pretty sure everything relating to the linguistic problem this thread speaks of is 100 percent legal.

He wasn't looking for a tutor though. He was looking for good free pdf files of English-to-other language/other language-to-English dictionaries, so he could learn the language alone and at his own speed.
All good dictionaries cost money. So he's essentially asking for pirated versions of them, which is illegal.

At 6/4/16 12:42 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

At 6/4/16 12:25 PM, LiquidFire wrote:

He wasn't looking for a tutor though. He was looking for good free pdf files of English-to-other language/other language-to-English dictionaries, so he could learn the language alone and at his own speed.

which is a form of TUTORial. tutors dont need to be "tutors" in the sense of "people who come to your doorstep and give you private lessons". they can be anything that gives you basic information to help you understand something.

tutor

noun
a person employed to instruct another in some branch or branches of learning, especially a private instructor.

So, in other words, not a dictonary?

At 6/4/16 07:57 AM, Kalviter wrote: Memrise is alright for learning basic foundational stuff (important grammar and basic vocabulary) and I hear there's a bunch of similar services like it. Duolingo's also free, supposed to be decent, though I've never used it.

Thank you for contributing. I'm generally wary of things you have to sign up for because usually there's a "catch" or a "gotcha" such as it's only free up until a point or for so many days or such, but at least you're trying to point me in the direction of possible useful resources, unlike a certain other person in this thread. Perhaps I should look into those suggestions.

At 6/4/16 09:45 AM, LiquidFire wrote: Thanks for confirming how much of a dense mofo you are.

If willingness to self-study and learn topics as complicated as foreign languages is "dense mofo" then I guess I'm a "dense mofo". I'm sorry my abilities for learning so greatly exceed yours that you feel the need to insult one who seeks learning material. You obviously need everything spoon-fed and can't fathom how anyone could possibly self-study. Again, don't project your own limitations onto me. I assure you I am much more capable than you are, especially after this little display of yours.

If you're not going to be helpful don't bother posting. I'm asking if anyone knows of some decent *free* resources. Clearly you don't. Don't bother posting in this thread again unless you have something useful to contribute.

There aren't any resources worth shit that you can get for free, not legally anyway. Considering discussing illegal activity is not allowed on Newgrounds then this forum shouldn't really be here to begin with.

You don't know that. And you're not being helpful. So stop posting. If you had nothing useful to contribute, which you didn't have anything useful, then you shouldn't have posted in the first place. Posting just to berate one for seeking information and to parrot out a line about how you think everyone should have to spend huge amounts of money on language learning just makes you an asshole. If you're not going to be useful, don't post.

At 6/4/16 12:16 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: he's an egotistical one who always bites off more than he can chew, but he's not dense. just weird and stubborn. kinda like me.

I'll agree to that, to an extent. I can be a bit egotistical. I do occasionally bite off more than I can chew. But I always get something out of it and come out the better for it, so even if I don't achieve full fluency or mastery of something, I'm still further along than I was before, and I'm not a quitter, so that only means what I don't know today I might know tomorrow.

I might be very unorthodox in my methods, but then again my methods get results. I am able to learn things at a faster rate than others, generally. So obviously I'm doing something right.

seriously, i'm pretty sure everything relating to the linguistic problem this thread speaks of is 100 percent legal.

Yep. I'm just saying, for as many Internet resources we have on all kinds of stuff, *surely* there should be better foreign language learning materials out there, and not behind a paywall. To ask for knowledge is not illegal, and if it were then we would surely be in an Orwellian future dystopia.

now, as to neon's question... he always complains about people being lazy brats. now he's not willing to search one at a time. but a dictionary would be kinda the same. you'd have to flip through the pages which is even slower than typing the letters.

But I'm willing to read through entire dictionaries. Surely that's about as far from lazy as possible.

Also searching one word at a time is not the same at all as a browsable dictionary (like the kind you could hold in your hands and thumb through) -- it takes a long time for each query to go through, and just for a single word, and that won't even give you other meanings or nuances of the word. Versus a browsable dictionary with pages you can read through everything, cover-to-cover. Only being able to get one word at a time exponentially slows everything down. Plus it's better to work smarter, not harder, and the smarter means would be if I had decent dictionaries at my command.

so if he can find that... i'm pretty sure that's all that matters. unless he wants to rethink the value of lazy people's lives.

Yes if I could find some good dictionaries it would help a lot. Or anything which provides similar usefulness. As to laziness, willingness to self-teach via educational material is not laziness. Maybe you are referring to an assumption I should just "google it" or find stuff on my own, but I have tried that and there's surprisingly little out there, or at the very least there are oceans upon oceans of for-pay content and any free useful content within that is like searching for a specific drop of water in an ocean. And it doesn't help that the vast majority of for-pay services litter the search results with terms like "free" and really it's a free trial or only free up until a point or so forth. That's not free.

At 6/4/16 12:25 PM, LiquidFire wrote: He wasn't looking for a tutor though. He was looking for good free pdf files of English-to-other language/other language-to-English dictionaries, so he could learn the language alone and at his own speed.
All good dictionaries cost money. So he's essentially asking for pirated versions of them, which is illegal.

Yes I am looking for good dictionaries, if anyone knows of any. As for your assumptions all learning resources should cost money, that's just because you're a greedy capitalist asshole who probably always had enough money for everything anyway. I will guess you probably live in a rich Northern state in the US or in a rich country in Europe and come from a rich family.

I'm not asking for pirated anything. Surely by this point in time there should be some older dictionaries which are free to use, or something along those lines? Maybe there are organizations which create free dictionaries for people to use? Maybe I just don't know where to search for the stuff, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. But you can buzz off with your elitist garbage. Those who desire knowledge should be able to obtain that knowledge -- not just those with huge cash money.

May no one ever help you with anything in life, and may you ultimately fail in everything you ever attempt. Capitalist scumbag.

At 6/4/16 12:42 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: which is a form of TUTORial. tutors dont need to be "tutors" in the sense of "people who come to your doorstep and give you private lessons". they can be anything that gives you basic information to help you understand something.

Correct. A tutor doesn't need to be human, although they can be.

but let him determine what's "good" for himself. different people learn different ways. what he's asking is for something free that is convenient and helps him find definitions of words.

Thank you.

that may make him a lazy cheapskate. but neither stupid nor "criminal".

Lazy, no. Everyone needs resources to accomplish goals. Needing resources doesn't make one lazy. Cheapskate? I don't have the money to be spending. Language courses and materials are expensive. Depends what you consider a cheapskate I guess. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth like LiquidFire though. Correct on the last two counts.

At 6/4/16 12:52 PM, LiquidFire wrote: tutor

noun
a person employed to instruct another in some branch or branches of learning, especially a private instructor.

So, in other words, not a dictonary?

dictionary.com is a terrible resource, by the way. It's hardly an authoritative dictionary. But yes mystic is right and you are wrong. A tutor is that which serves the role of a tutor. This can be a human or otherwise.

This thread is hilarious.

At 6/5/16 12:58 AM, poopmcfarts wrote: This thread is hilarious.

I come to most of Neons threads for that reason.

To be on topic though there are some good Youtube series on learning languages, that are free. Dictionaries are another thing, you normally have to purchase them for a quality one, but you've probably found terrible ones online already. The Youtube series normally link to resources as well, that would probably be a good place to start.

At 6/5/16 12:50 AM, NeonSpider wrote: If willingness to self-study and learn topics as complicated as foreign languages is "dense mofo" then I guess I'm a "dense mofo".

You're a dense mofo because you fail to realize any good dictionary will cost you money at some point.

I'm sorry my abilities for learning so greatly exceed yours that you feel the need to insult one who seeks learning material.

Well, I didn't start throwing insults around, you did and you have continued to do so in pretty much all your replies to me. I guess you started insulting me was because you knew I was right all along, but you refused to acknowledge that another person smarter than you at something. Funny how that works our right?

You obviously need everything spoon-fed and can't fathom how anyone could possibly self-study.

So first you get all offended and start raging when I assume something about you. But then you go around and do the same thing. Nice double standards.

You don't know that. And you're not being helpful. So stop posting. If you had nothing useful to contribute, which you didn't have anything useful, then you shouldn't have posted in the first place.

So telling you that you're probably better off taking classes if you want to learn a new language, since talking to someone in the language you're trying to learn is usually the fastest method and is more likely to get you to remember the words and learn how to pronounce them correctly, instead of staring down in a book for countless hours on end, is not being helpful? Okay then.

Posting just to berate one for seeking information

Oh I wasn't berating you my friend. If you want to use a dictionary to learn a language than go ahead, that's your choice.

and to parrot out a line about how you think everyone should have to spend huge amounts of money on language learning just makes you an asshole.

See, now you assume something about me again. I don't think people should spend money on it. If they can use "free" resources and learn it that way, then be my guest, I don't really care how people acquire said "free" resources either.

Yes I am looking for good dictionaries, if anyone knows of any. As for your assumptions all learning resources should cost money, that's just because you're a greedy capitalist asshole who probably always had enough money for everything anyway. I will guess you probably live in a rich Northern state in the US or in a rich country in Europe and come from a rich family.

Oh, now you assume something about me again. Man what is it with you and these double standards?
But no, I am not in anyway rich, and I often use things that are free instead of things that cost me money, even if it means giving up on some quality.

I'm not asking for pirated anything. Surely by this point in time there should be some older dictionaries which are free to use, or something along those lines?

Surely there must. But would you really consider old outdated dictionaries decent/good? I surely wouldn't.

May no one ever help you with anything in life, and may you ultimately fail in everything you ever attempt. Capitalist scumbag.

Oh, there's you assuming something about me again. Oh and throwing insults at me again.

dictionary.com is a terrible resource, by the way. It's hardly an authoritative dictionary. But yes mystic is right and you are wrong. A tutor is that which serves the role of a tutor. This can be a human or otherwise.

Okay then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutor
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tutor
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tutor
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tutor
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/tutor_1
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/tutor
http://www.yourdictionary.com/tutor
http://dictionary.infoplease.com/tutor
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tutor

i dont know what youre talking about, ive easily found good resources for learning japanese, mandarin, spanish, french, and korean at least.

At 6/5/16 12:58 AM, poopmcfarts wrote: This thread is hilarious.

This is the kind of shit show people line up to see in the general forum.

At 6/5/16 05:46 AM, DeIirium wrote: i dont know what youre talking about, ive easily found good resources for learning japanese, mandarin, spanish, french, and korean at least.

Good enough to become fluent in them though, and not just only introductory material or paywalled stuff masquerading as "free"?

At 6/5/16 04:34 AM, LiquidFire wrote: You're a dense mofo because you fail to realize any good dictionary will cost you money at some point.

You're assuming it has to. That may be a false assumption. But at least I'm asking for possible resources rather than snapping at someone because they're merely asking for resources. Of which you have provided none by the way.

Well, I didn't start throwing insults around, you did and you have continued to do so in pretty much all your replies to me. I guess you started insulting me was because you knew I was right all along, but you refused to acknowledge that another person smarter than you at something. Funny how that works our right?

Actually, yes you did. And therefore you are a huge liar and a hypocrite. You are neither "right" nor smarter than me. Funny how those without any answers have to insult those who merely ask for possible resources. Congrats. You have absolutely zero knowledge of where to find useful information. If you'd left it at that, with perhaps a wishing of good luck, then we wouldn't be having this little spat right now. But you insist that everything has to cost money and rather then post anything remotely useful, you'd rather just throw around insults.

So first you get all offended and start raging when I assume something about you. But then you go around and do the same thing. Nice double standards.

Don't post in threads for which you have zero knowledge and zero interest. Clearly you have zero knowledge because you have not provided one thread-relevant resource. Clearly you have zero interest because you keep going on about how everything costs money and how dare I even ask if there are possible resources out there. You've been an ass this entire thread, dude.

So telling you that you're probably better off taking classes if you want to learn a new language, since talking to someone in the language you're trying to learn is usually the fastest method and is more likely to get you to remember the words and learn how to pronounce them correctly, instead of staring down in a book for countless hours on end, is not being helpful? Okay then.

Correct. None of that was helpful. Precisely all of that was off-topic as well. A car analogy would be if I asked how to do some specific automotive repair and you kept chiming in with the "helpful solution" (actually not helpful at all and rather asinine and nagging) of "pay someone to do it". Naww... really. As if I didn't know that was a possibility. Get real, man. None of that was helpful in the slightest and I would really hope for your own sake you're not stupid enough to honestly think it was. But then again maybe you are that stupid.

May no one ever help you with anything in life, and may you ultimately fail in everything you ever attempt. Capitalist scumbag.

Oh, there's you assuming something about me again. Oh and throwing insults at me again.

From the start you kept harping on about how I should pay money for this and that and how dare I ask if there are possibly free resources. Clearly you just go about your life paying for everything and expecting to pay for everything, like a good little capitalist. Because for you all that matters in life is money. I know your type. You just don't like being labeled as such. Well if the shoe fits...

Okay then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutor
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tutor
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tutor
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tutor
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/tutor_1
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/tutor
http://www.yourdictionary.com/tutor
http://dictionary.infoplease.com/tutor
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tutor

You lack very basic understanding. Most things are not intrinsic but it is merely the role they play. Ergo anything which plays the role of a tutor *is* a tutor. Most words in the English language can be used like this. There is no one thing or person who is a "tutor" to the exclusion of all else.

But clearly you don't understand what you're reading (if you've even read) those definitions because several of them state that a tutor is a teacher. Note they do not stipulate that the teacher must be human. Your teacher, and thus tutor, might be a computer program, a book, or anything else. What is a teacher? That which teaches or from which teaching can be derived.

Again, if you're not going to be helpful, don't bother posting in threads in which you plan to contribute nothing of value.

At 6/5/16 11:13 AM, NeonSpider wrote: Actually, yes you did. And therefore you are a huge liar and a hypocrite. You are neither "right" nor smarter than me. Funny how those without any answers have to insult those who merely ask for possible resources. Congrats. You have absolutely zero knowledge of where to find useful information. If you'd left it at that, with perhaps a wishing of good luck, then we wouldn't be having this little spat right now. But you insist that everything has to cost money and rather then post anything remotely useful, you'd rather just throw around insults.

Actually no I didn't. My first post was not insulting in anyway. Then you reply to me calling my suggestion asinine. Calling someone asinine is insulting.

how dare I even ask if there are possible resources out there

Lol

You've been an ass this entire thread, dude.

Pfft, as if you've been any better. Only thing I've called you is a dense mofo. You have thrown multiple insults around.

Correct. None of that was helpful.

"What is sarcasm?" -NeonSpider

Clearly you just go about your life paying for everything and expecting to pay for everything, like a good little capitalist.

Well, that sentence proves that you pick and choose what people say just so you get to be a stubborn ass and just ignore the rest of the things they say.

But good luck finding the lost treasure of dictionaries.
I can safely say that it's not probably going to happen.
If there was a free dictionary out there that was just as good, if not better, than the ones you pay for, believe me it would be well known and easy to find.
Considering you claim to be such a smart guy, then I wonder why you haven't realized that yet?

At 6/5/16 11:33 AM, LiquidFire wrote: Actually no I didn't. My first post was not insulting in anyway. Then you reply to me calling my suggestion asinine. Calling someone asinine is insulting.

I called it asinine because it was asinine. It wasn't intended to be helpful in any meaningful way. You can't seriously think that suggestion was helpful. It's just you essentially strutting your stuff around saying what you would do. Okay great -- except that's not what the thread was asking at all. It's the same kind of "helpful" (except not really) response as a nagging backseat driver. You somehow feel the need to get your word in there without it being helpful or relevant in the slightest.

You've been an ass this entire thread, dude.

Pfft, as if you've been any better. Only thing I've called you is a dense mofo. You have thrown multiple insults around.

Yes, I'm a "dense mofo" because I ask for educational resources for learning purposes. Meanwhile you, the "so enlightened" one have the "brilliant idea" you have to pay money for everything and contribute that as your "helpful" response. Let's think about that one for a minute. Quotes indicate sarcasm.

Correct. None of that was helpful.

"What is sarcasm?" -NeonSpider

So you admit you're just an ass?

But good luck finding the lost treasure of dictionaries.
I can safely say that it's not probably going to happen.
If there was a free dictionary out there that was just as good, if not better, than the ones you pay for, believe me it would be well known and easy to find.
Considering you claim to be such a smart guy, then I wonder why you haven't realized that yet?

Because things don't magically appear out of the sky and I don't have a magic genie lamp either. But what I can do is ask people to contribute information if they have any, or to provide useful resources. Instead of providing either you've chosen "be a complete ass". I might get something useful. I might not. But not only are you not helpful (and haven't been helpful at all) but you're actively antagonistic.

If you're that opposed to people asking for suggestions for helpful resources then don't bother posting in those threads.

But I'll tell you this. I'll make it a point never to help you out. Hopefully you need someone's help someday and no one helps you and instead some asshole just shits all over you. Maybe you get hit with some nasty malware and everyone laughs at you instead of helping you figure out what to do about it. That'll be hilarious. Especially if you end up having to pay hundreds of dollars to fix what could have been fixed for free.

At 6/5/16 12:06 PM, NeonSpider wrote: I called it asinine because it was asinine. It wasn't intended to be helpful in any meaningful way

What your opinion about my suggestion is, is irrelevant. Calling something asinine is being an ass, no matter how you put it.

Yes, I'm a "dense mofo" because I ask for educational resources for learning purposes. Meanwhile you, the "so enlightened" one have the "brilliant idea" you have to pay money for everything and contribute that as your "helpful" response. Let's think about that one for a minute. Quotes indicate sarcasm.

What does that have to do with my comment? I was merely stating that you have been an asshole from the moment I posted.

So you admit you're just an ass?

Yeah, because giving a suggestion which you don't find useful is being an ass.

But not only are you not helpful (and haven't been helpful at all) but you're actively antagonistic.

If you consider calling someone out for calling people stupid and an asshole just because they didn't like the suggestion, as being antagonistic. Then yes, I guess I am antagonistic by your definition.

But in the future, you might consider ignoring suggestion you don't find helpful, instead of getting all worked up over them and writing a huge wall of text complaining about said suggestion.

But I'll tell you this. I'll make it a point never to help you out.

That's fine, I don't really need help from idiots anyway.

Hopefully you need someone's help someday and no one helps you and instead some asshole just shits all over you.

So you think I shat all over you because you didn't find my suggestion helpful? That's quite sensitive.
Just ignore suggestion you can't use and move on.

Maybe you get hit with some nasty malware and everyone laughs at you instead of helping you figure out what to do about it. That'll be hilarious. Especially if you end up having to pay hundreds of dollars to fix what could have been fixed for free.

I work in IT. Getting rid of malware is probably one of the easiest things for me. You couldn't have used any worse analogy than that.

Don't mind me and everyone else viewing this thread, I thought this would have blown over by times I woke up, but its still going on; kind of sad really.

At 6/5/16 11:13 AM, NeonSpider wrote:

At 6/5/16 05:46 AM, DeIirium wrote: i dont know what youre talking about, ive easily found good resources for learning japanese, mandarin, spanish, french, and korean at least.

Good enough to become fluent in them though, and not just only introductory material or paywalled stuff masquerading as "free"?

i dont know what you mean by good enough to become fluent. 99 percent of language learning is memorizing vocabulary and that shit is all online, theres also tons of example sentences and grammar guides. thats plenty of resources for getting fluent in a language. if you want someone to hold your hand youll have to pay for a teacher though.

At 6/5/16 12:40 PM, LiquidFire wrote:

At 6/5/16 12:06 PM, NeonSpider wrote: I called it asinine because it was asinine. It wasn't intended to be helpful in any meaningful way

What your opinion about my suggestion is, is irrelevant. Calling something asinine is being an ass, no matter how you put it.

False. You weren't even trying to be helpful from the start and you know it. Don't even play that game. You weren't innocent from the start. Your intentions were purely to be a smartass and to discourage someone from trying to find resources.

Yeah, because giving a suggestion which you don't find useful is being an ass.

No. Giving a "suggestion" which is completely off-topic and purely intended to annoy while making disparaging remarks is being an ass. If you're not going to be helpful to someones endeavors then leave them be. No one else in this thread has been an ass except you.

If you consider calling someone out for calling people stupid and an asshole just because they didn't like the suggestion, as being antagonistic. Then yes, I guess I am antagonistic by your definition.

I called you an antagonistic asshole because you are being an antagonistic asshole. You've been such from the very start when you make a very incorrect assumption that just because perhaps you wouldn't be able to learn things a certain way that I wouldn't be able to. Bad assumption. My abilities greatly exceed yours.

But in the future, you might consider ignoring suggestion you don't find helpful, instead of getting all worked up over them and writing a huge wall of text complaining about said suggestion.

If you had merely given a bad suggestion in good faith, fine. But you didn't do that. You had every intent of being a smart-alec. You had every intention of causing problems merely because you didn't like the idea of someone trying to go about finding information without fronting a bunch of money for it.

That's fine, I don't really need help from idiots anyway.

You know, it's funny. Idiots often call intelligent people idiots. Just sayin'. You see, because idiots have this idiotic idea that an idiot is anyone who doesn't think exactly like they do. Dunning-Kruger effect and all that. But somehow I wouldn't be so quick to call someone searching for learning material an "idiot", much less if I had precisely zero to contribute.

Maybe you get hit with some nasty malware and everyone laughs at you instead of helping you figure out what to do about it. That'll be hilarious. Especially if you end up having to pay hundreds of dollars to fix what could have been fixed for free.

I work in IT. Getting rid of malware is probably one of the easiest things for me. You couldn't have used any worse analogy than that.

That's hilarious! You "work in IT" yet you don't know the difference between a forum and a thread! You don't know very basic English language use such as things being able to be things based purely on roles or use case. This strongly indicates you don't know what a role or a use case is -- things which any competent IT person should definitely have a handle on. It's very possible you do work in IT and are what the rest of us call "dead weight". I'm going to guess whatever systems you're in charge of are full of swiss cheese security.

Next time you don't have anything useful to contribute to a request for information, don't bother berating the asker but merely move along to a thread which interests you.

I won't be replying to you further because clearly you are incompetent and you have something against those who would seek out information for self-study. You have nothing useful to contribute and you're purely sour grapes. Unlike you, I intend to learn things rather than just pay my way through life. I don't believe life should be one big paywall. Maybe when someone hoses your servers you can just pay a real IT guy to fix the mess.

At 6/6/16 02:03 AM, DeIirium wrote: i dont know what you mean by good enough to become fluent. 99 percent of language learning is memorizing vocabulary and that shit is all online, theres also tons of example sentences and grammar guides. thats plenty of resources for getting fluent in a language. if you want someone to hold your hand youll have to pay for a teacher though.

Well yes I just want good vocabulary resources. That's precisely what I'm after. I'm not saying it's not online (in fact I'm pretty sure I said it probably was a matter of just knowing where to look)

I don't require any hand-holding or anything of that sort. I'm not sure where you might have gotten that idea.

I agree the majority of language learning is in the vocabulary, so a good vocabulary resource is really all I need and all I've asked for. Grammar is easy. Pronunciation isn't too big a deal and could be improved later. Plus I'm competent with most IPA so, provided the IPA is correct (which it isn't always), then I'll have the pronunciations at least ballparked.

If you know of some good sites like that, link me anything you think might be useful.

At 6/5/16 02:37 PM, Anarkat wrote: youtube is your friend.

Maybe. I mean I can find a few things there for sure, but still it's more supplementary than primary. What I'm really looking for are some good primary vocabulary resources, such as for example dictionaries, but really anything which serves the purpose.

So far @Kalviter has provided the most useful information, but I really want to get whatever potentially useful input I can.

At 6/6/16 02:52 AM, NeonSpider wrote: False. You weren't even trying to be helpful from the start and you know it. Don't even play that game. You weren't innocent from the start. Your intentions were purely to be a smartass and to discourage someone from trying to find resources.

Lol not really.

Yeah, because giving a suggestion which you don't find useful is being an ass.

No. Giving a "suggestion" which is completely off-topic and purely intended to annoy while making disparaging remarks is being an ass. If you're not going to be helpful to someones endeavors then leave them be. No one else in this thread has been an ass except you.

Nope, i was not trying to be an ass. Not my problem if you're so sensitive that you get butthurt over what you consider to be a bad suggestion. Not to mention that you have been an ass in this thread multiple times.

If you consider calling someone out for calling people stupid and an asshole just because they didn't like the suggestion, as being antagonistic. Then yes, I guess I am antagonistic by your definition.

I called you an antagonistic asshole because you are being an antagonistic asshole. You've been such from the very start when you make a very incorrect assumption that just because perhaps you wouldn't be able to learn things a certain way that I wouldn't be able to. Bad assumption. My abilities greatly exceed yours.

Lol, gotta love how you act all high and mighty even though youve been making tons of bad assumptions about me this entire time. Acting like you're better than everyone else doesn't help either.

But in the future, you might consider ignoring suggestion you don't find helpful, instead of getting all worked up over them and writing a huge wall of text complaining about said suggestion.

If you had merely given a bad suggestion in good faith, fine. But you didn't do that. You had every intent of being a smart-alec. You had every intention of causing problems merely because you didn't like the idea of someone trying to go about finding information without fronting a bunch of money for it.

There's you making assumptions about me again. Does that mean i get to call you a huge cunt faced moron, considering you did the same thing to me when i assumed something about me.

That's fine, I don't really need help from idiots anyway.

You know, it's funny. Idiots often call intelligent people idiots. Just sayin'. You see, because idiots have this idiotic idea that an idiot is anyone who doesn't think exactly like they do. Dunning-Kruger effect and all that. But somehow I wouldn't be so quick to call someone searching for learning material an "idiot", much less if I had precisely zero to contribute.

I call people who get worked up over others suggestions and start throwing insults around, instead of ignoring said suggestions, for idiots.

That's hilarious! You "work in IT" yet you don't know the difference between a forum and a thread! You don't know very basic English language use such as things being able to be things based purely on roles or use case. This strongly indicates you don't know what a role or a use case is -- things which any competent IT person should definitely have a handle on. It's very possible you do work in IT and are what the rest of us call "dead weight". I'm going to guess whatever systems you're in charge of are full of swiss cheese security.

Next time you don't have anything useful to contribute to a request for information, don't bother berating the asker but merely move along to a thread which interests you.

I won't be replying to you further because clearly you are incompetent and you have something against those who would seek out information for self-study. You have nothing useful to contribute and you're purely sour grapes. Unlike you, I intend to learn things rather than just pay my way through life. I don't believe life should be one big paywall. Maybe when someone hoses your servers you can just pay a real IT guy to fix the mess.

theres the asshole assuming things about me again, funny how many double standards you.
But have fun being an asshole. Surprised you gave up on the discussion, considering how stubborn youve been. It was almost too easy.

I have a method that I use to learn languages that seems to work well. I speak 4 fluently, and I am working on 3 more actively. PM me if you wish.

@Neonspider is my bae.
Honestly neonspider, I would suggest looking in libraries for those kind of things, it may be easier to find a real copy. As far as government issued books i.e. textbooks, those usually have a pdf that can be found online. The index of those things may even act as a mini-dictionary.

At 6/11/16 01:51 AM, mysticvortex13 wrote: intentions are something that cannot be verified. why do you presume you knew liquidfire's? you have no evidence. you could not have evidence of intent. there's no such thing as evidence of intent. you cant read minds. psychics arent real yet.

I have plenty of evidence. It's called common sense. It's common sense that you don't post a smartass reply in a thread if you're intending to be legitimately helpful.

do you know their ability? no, you've never even interacted with liquidfire before this thread happened. you have literally no way of testing their ability nor of demonstrating your own.

The proof is in his first post. You don't make the assumption that people can't do a thing *as your default assumption* unless you yourself cannot do that thing. Simple psychology. So by that first post is proof enough my potential greatly exceeds his. As for demonstrating my own skills, I certainly can. I don't have the language skills (yet) but I certainly have the potential for it. As for other skills, I have many and I use them as needed. One would be a fool to underestimate me.

dunning kruger effect is every bit a myth as you believe adhd is a myth for reasons outlined within my newspost.

i wrote the newspost in snark because i was feeling like a wisecrack at the time, much like my last post in this thread... but backed with an actual link to a study because i'm almost always at least somewhat serious, even when i'm joking.

everyone overestimates their ability. even those qualified to do the job. there's no increase in rate the lower the qualification. it's an inherent part of humanity.

Actually, no, Dunning-Kruger has weight. While anyone might overestimate themselves, those at the lower ends of ability tend to more grossly overestimate their (lack of) ability than others. Any of it is easily testable. IQ tests for example. Those who score low in IQ tests make the excuse that "well they don't actually measure IQ", mostly because they incorrectly overestimated their own ability, which the test disagreed with, so then they discount the test as "useless" since it doesn't agree with their own self-assessments.

It's also how anyone who uses a computer these days considers themselves a "computer expert" when at least 98% of them aren't even anywhere close. It's easily testable. There are degrees, certifications, and so forth. Most so-called "computer experts" would not make the cut.

do you actually believe that? or is it possible that he knows the difference but was too laid back to care about using the proper term at the time?

Put it this way. Anyone who isn't a complete newbie to Internet forums should know the difference. Any actual computer expert should have familiarity with Internet forums. There is a quite obvious mismatch between his claim and the facts. So either he's lying or incompetent.

As for if he'd use the wrong term even if knowing the correct term, no. Actual computer experts are highly technical individuals with the finest attention to detail. It's not a mistake a competent IT person would make.

it's not like he's working at the moment he's talking to you. people tend to leave the attitude they're paid to have at the door when they go home for the day.

In what way is it "relaxing" to use a term incorrectly? One uses terms incorrectly when one is ignorant of their correct use. It's not like you would "relax" and start speaking like an idiot despite knowing better, unless it was intentional parody. He's not worth my time.

you said you wouldn't escalate unless other people did. fiery didnt. your rules of engagement ought to be consistent throughout. both verbally and physically.

Nah. His first post was a written insult and it didn't get any better from there. I didn't escalate anything. He chose to inflammatory post as his first post in a thread he had no real interests in. I'm done with him. Move on.

At 6/4/16 06:23 AM, NeonSpider wrote:

At 6/4/16 05:52 AM, LiquidFire wrote:

At 6/4/16 05:18 AM, NeonSpider wrote: I just want to learn languages, dammit! Or at least try.

Take some classes, either online or offline. You aren't going to learn a language by looking in a dictionary.

I have taken classes. They don't do much good. I feel like I could do better on my own. Primarily they never go far enough to actually be useful.

You know that there are "beginners" and "advanced" classes, yes? Reading a dictionary won't get you very far either. Ok, I constantly have to use a dictionary when writing here (dict.leo.org), but I wouldn't have learned english simply by reading through a dictionary...

Online courses can be helpful, but I doubt you will ever learn a language just on your own. Pronunciation is very difficult to master without the help of a teacher. Or would you know how to pronounce "Streichholzschachtel" without the help of a teacher? Oh yes, you can get online dictionaries to read out words for you. But you have no way of knowing if you pronounced the word right or not...

At 6/11/16 11:51 PM, NeonSpider wrote: I have plenty of evidence. It's called common sense. It's common sense that you don't post a smartass reply in a thread if you're intending to be legitimately helpful.

do you know their ability? no, you've never even interacted with liquidfire before this thread happened. you have literally no way of testing their ability nor of demonstrating your own.

The proof is in his first post.

Nah.

You don't make the assumption that people can't do a thing *as your default assumption* unless you yourself cannot do that thing.

Oh please.

One would be a fool to underestimate me.

Quite an ego you got there.

Put it this way. Anyone who isn't a complete newbie to Internet forums should know the difference. Any actual computer expert should have familiarity with Internet forums. There is a quite obvious mismatch between his claim and the facts. So either he's lying or incompetent.

Oh no, I made a mistake when typed out my reply and accidentally typed forum instead of thread! I'm such and idiot oh my god please no!

As for if he'd use the wrong term even if knowing the correct term, no. Actual computer experts are highly technical individuals with the finest attention to detail. It's not a mistake a competent IT person would make.'

It's surprising how you're such an expert on so many things! You must have a very good job with that insane amount of knowledge you have about so many things!
It's weird though, those kind of people usually aren't seen spending huge amount of time on the internet. How suspicious.

Oh and btw, I said I worked in IT. I never claimed to be an expert. Thanks for assuming I am though. But I'm still in the middle of finishing my education.

Nah. His first post was a written insult and it didn't get any better from there.

If you really think my first post was meant as an insult, then you got some serious issues and take the internet way too seriously. I'd advice you to stop using it so much, since getting triggered so easily can't be healthy for you.

I didn't escalate anything.

So writing a huge wall of text complaining about 2 lines of text is not escalating it? Okay then.

I'm done with him.

The fact that you're still here and complaining about me, even after you said you would no longer bother responding, shows you aren't quite done with me.

Move on.

I'd advice you to follow your own advice.

At 6/12/16 03:06 PM, Haggard wrote: You know that there are "beginners" and "advanced" classes, yes? Reading a dictionary won't get you very far either. Ok, I constantly have to use a dictionary when writing here (dict.leo.org), but I wouldn't have learned english simply by reading through a dictionary...

Be careful. You might trigger him.

At 6/12/16 03:06 PM, Haggard wrote: You know that there are "beginners" and "advanced" classes, yes?

You have to take at least 5 or more courses of the same language before you might start getting anywhere. No thanks. Been there done that. Pass. Moving on. Too expensive and takes too long. And I'm not really sure what you mean by "beginner" and "advanced" because there's no separation like that. You take the courses starting from the first course in the series, one course per semester at a university. It's very inefficient for learning a language.

Reading a dictionary won't get you very far either.

But you don't know that. Besides, it is a requirement and this is dependent on memory ability. My memory ability is excellent.

Ok, I constantly have to use a dictionary when writing here (dict.leo.org), but I wouldn't have learned english simply by reading through a dictionary...

Well, one reads through a dictionary to learn whatever words they can. Then perhaps one can make a bit more sense of written sentences (because they'll use recognizable words) and so forth. Once you can basically read the language you're well on the way.

The primary problem is lack of sufficient vocabulary and a dictionary is the way to remedy that.

Online courses can be helpful, but I doubt you will ever learn a language just on your own. Pronunciation is very difficult to master without the help of a teacher. Or would you know how to pronounce "Streichholzschachtel" without the help of a teacher? Oh yes, you can get online dictionaries to read out words for you. But you have no way of knowing if you pronounced the word right or not...

IPA. And yes I likely would pronounce that word correctly or at least "close enough". Like I've said, any dictionary worth using uses IPA. If you're competent enough at IPA that's all you'll need for at least "good enough" pronunciations. I don't care if I exactly sound like a native or not. You're going to have some kind of a foreign accent anyway.

And besides once you're at the point where you can read stuff and watch videos in it, then you can pick up on any remaining pronunciation nuances. It's just not that difficult.

Understanding is more important than perfect speaking anyway. And that's really a minor thing.