On folk songs and cultural identity

[Troisnyx]

Real quick, this has little to do with the Folk genre and maybe a bit more to do with folk songs of the rest of the world. This is just a stream of thought that has stayed in my mind for quite a while now, and I want to hear your opinions on it.

Now I know that folk songs around the world have either happy or sad tones. The happy ones can be celebratory, or even romanticising the mundane at times. They could even talk about victorious battle campaigns and things (the Corries have quite a few of these). The sad ones could be lamenting the loss of friends or loved ones, or maybe even a major tragedy that has happened in the lives of the people.

For instance, the Irish have 'The Wearing of the Green (is that its actual title?)', the Koreans have 'Arirang'... you get the drift.

While I know having folk songs means that there's a cultural identity somewhere, what happens when you live in a culture where the old folk songs are banned or nonexistent? Where there's either nothing to sing about, or anything that people would have wanted to sing about gets censored by the authorities?

I grew up in one such place. And while I listen to my fiancé (who is Irish both by descent and by citizenship) singing The Wolfe Tones or The Corries or anyone like that, I think of the many other people around me and around the world who take pride in things like these -- and then realise, I have none of that. I have no culture. No identity to draw from others. It's a very painful thing for me.

Maybe I'm not a common case, but I don't think I'm alone in going through this. What are your thoughts?

[Kalviter]

Coming from someone who has links to many different cultures, but doesn't really connect with any of them, I guess I kind of see where you're coming from. I've got an Irish dad who doesn't seem to care about his culture at all beyond the next pint of Guiness and a mixed mum with mixed parents, who have mixed parents, so I kind of miss having strong cultural ties.

That being said, culture exists in many different forms. I was lucky enough to visit the home country of my grandmother, and being able to see how the indigenous population lived and still lives (Isolated Amazonian Indian tribes) gave me probably the closest feeling to cultural pride I've ever experienced. I've since been trying to do some more research on them, although it's incredibly tough, just to have something where I can say "Yeah. This is mine. Something unique to me." I'm proud of the country I live in too, but when you're a first generation/second generation immigrant it's not quite the same.

I'd say you definitely have a cultural background somewhere. But some cultures are far harder to learn about and track down than others, and not all cultures have survived very well. It might be hard to break through whatever censorship is in your way, but doubtless there is some small resource out there that might help you.

Idk, that's just my two cents. Tl;DR, some cultures are harder to learn about than others.

[Troisnyx]

At 5/18/16 07:44 AM, Kalviter wrote: Coming from someone who has links to many different cultures, but doesn't really connect with any of them, I guess I kind of see where you're coming from. I've got an Irish dad who doesn't seem to care about his culture at all beyond the next pint of Guiness and a mixed mum with mixed parents, who have mixed parents, so I kind of miss having strong cultural ties.

That being said, culture exists in many different forms. I was lucky enough to visit the home country of my grandmother, and being able to see how the indigenous population lived and still lives (Isolated Amazonian Indian tribes) gave me probably the closest feeling to cultural pride I've ever experienced. I've since been trying to do some more research on them, although it's incredibly tough, just to have something where I can say "Yeah. This is mine. Something unique to me." I'm proud of the country I live in too, but when you're a first generation/second generation immigrant it's not quite the same.

I'd say you definitely have a cultural background somewhere. But some cultures are far harder to learn about and track down than others, and not all cultures have survived very well. It might be hard to break through whatever censorship is in your way, but doubtless there is some small resource out there that might help you.

Idk, that's just my two cents. Tl;DR, some cultures are harder to learn about than others.

In my own story, I'm a descendant of a first-generation immigrant to what was then known as Malaya (now Malaysia). It kinda didn't help that in addition to people there not gelling together, the minorities often felt like foreigners in their own homeland. I was no different. Massive state-sanctioned racial discrimination brought about this. Censorship over there is extremely rife.

Heck, Britain treats me like one of her own far more than the land of my birth.

My current outlook has been to borrow bits and pieces of cultures I know or have associated with, and this shows in my music and my manner of thinking. I guess it conveys best in music -- though one day I imagine I'd have to write a song about just how much I feel like a vagabond, a vagrant trying to plant my own roots in the ground.

[Kalviter]

At 5/18/16 08:56 AM, Troisnyx wrote:

At 5/18/16 07:44 AM, Kalviter wrote: [some stuff]

In my own story, I'm a descendant of a first-generation immigrant to what was then known as Malaya (now Malaysia). It kinda didn't help that in addition to people there not gelling together, the minorities often felt like foreigners in their own homeland. I was no different. Massive state-sanctioned racial discrimination brought about this. Censorship over there is extremely rife.

Heck, Britain treats me like one of her own far more than the land of my birth.

My current outlook has been to borrow bits and pieces of cultures I know or have associated with, and this shows in my music and my manner of thinking. I guess it conveys best in music -- though one day I imagine I'd have to write a song about just how much I feel like a vagabond, a vagrant trying to plant my own roots in the ground.

Britain, or at least London, is actually really good for that sort of thing. I live here as well. Funny story, there used to be a massive Afro-Caribbean community here which had a lot of interesting culture and stuff (Most of them came here on ships like the Windrush) and most of them have vanished. No joke, me and my mum are so confused because this massive community has just disappeared. So weird. According to my Caribbean relatives a bunch of them went home for whatever reason.

I guess that's just how most of the people like you and me get our culture though, taking the best bits from around us. It's why my inspiration is so varied, though it may not show, and I think it's a good thing. I rather like the idea of being able to judge and evaluate a culture before accepting it as opposed to having one thrust unto you just because you were born in a particular place.

[TIMETRAVL]

Maybe I'm not a common case, but I don't think I'm alone in going through this. What are your thoughts?

I'm from Luxembourg and there aren't barely any volksongs, and i couldn't think of a way to draw inspiration from them.

[sebastien01]

At 5/18/16 05:32 AM, Troisnyx wrote: Real quick, this has little to do with the Folk genre and maybe a bit more to do with folk songs of the rest of the world. This is just a stream of thought that has stayed in my mind for quite a while now, and I want to hear your opinions on it.

Now I know that folk songs around the world have either happy or sad tones. The happy ones can be celebratory, or even romanticising the mundane at times. They could even talk about victorious battle campaigns and things (the Corries have quite a few of these). The sad ones could be lamenting the loss of friends or loved ones, or maybe even a major tragedy that has happened in the lives of the people.

For instance, the Irish have 'The Wearing of the Green (is that its actual title?)', the Koreans have 'Arirang'... you get the drift.

While I know having folk songs means that there's a cultural identity somewhere, what happens when you live in a culture where the old folk songs are banned or nonexistent? Where there's either nothing to sing about, or anything that people would have wanted to sing about gets censored by the authorities?

I grew up in one such place. And while I listen to my fiancé (who is Irish both by descent and by citizenship) singing The Wolfe Tones or The Corries or anyone like that, I think of the many other people around me and around the world who take pride in things like these -- and then realise, I have none of that. I have no culture. No identity to draw from others. It's a very painful thing for me.

Maybe I'm not a common case, but I don't think I'm alone in going through this. What are your thoughts?

Nice idea to start a topic about it!

Every nationality have its own way to tell us their history trought their music. It's pretty often about the political and social life from where the music is coming from. Nations change in time, and oppressive governments forbid folk songs about the nationality they try to take over. This way the oppressor assimilates the oppressed easier. It's sad but it's the truth. Folk music is part of what is keeping a nation's culture alive, and it's why I think every nation should have the right to express their culture trought music, especially folk music. It's sad for you that you have no personnal landmark from your representative nation's folk :(

I'm from Quebec/Canada. Even if we are near of USA, and surounded by the american pop culture, we are still keeping a strong folk music genre, because we mostly speak french (It's why my words in english don't always represent 100% of what I'm trying to say and is surely full of errors xD ), and we have our own history beside of English Canada's history. In fact there are two nations inside Canada. There is one, Canadian, saying "God save the queen" and the other, from Quebec, saying "Fu*k the queen"... I'm on the second one. Here is a little example of old and new folk songs from where I live :

Older one, composed by a prisonner under the english establishement over the french presence in Quebec. French patriots were hanged here in the late 19th century if they refused to obey the english monarchy in place. A lot of people lost their life to keep Quebec as independant as possible from the oppression :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07ONSE1nn64&list=PL8990B1C1186C86EE

Newer one, composed and performed by an engaged music group, it's about the corrupted governments using their power to steal money from the tax payers in order to give it to their friends, and about our people forgetting our history, letting the corruption burning our democracy and our environment while most of people is pleased with their own little life consisting of TV, lottery and beer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWbocxlTms

[SoulSecure]

If you're a Christian you've got Jesus Culture. Jesus is 'Cross' cultural, because He died for everyone in the Adamic race (there is one race, the human race which can be referred to as the 'Adamic race' because we all originate in Adam and Eve) and no matter where you are or where you come from, as a believer in the deity, blood, and resurrection of Jesus Christ you are part of the Body of Christ and God is your Father.

[sebastien01]

At 5/20/16 06:02 PM, Rahmemhotep wrote: If you're a Christian you've got Jesus Culture. Jesus is 'Cross' cultural, because He died for everyone in the Adamic race (there is one race, the human race which can be referred to as the 'Adamic race' because we all originate in Adam and Eve) and no matter where you are or where you come from, as a believer in the deity, blood, and resurrection of Jesus Christ you are part of the Body of Christ and God is your Father.

Faith is something, folk music is something else.

There is a Jesus culture, there is also a Buddha culture, a Mahomet culture, a Zeus culture, some multitheist cultures and some monotheist cultures.

There are some music associated with different religions, like gospel, a lot of J-S Bach music was made for christianity. Even if folk music in some ways might be inspired by the religion of the composer, it still has its own "aura", represented by the nation's political and social history, much more than the religion of the folk music composer.

My personal belief is that no one can pretend to know the truth about the life after (And before) life on earth, and no one can pretend to know the truth about the exact origin of life. There are hundreds of religions, and almost each of them (Excepted for the ones praising Jesus) would say that you are wrong about Jesus, Adam and Eve, and the Adamic race. They would try to convince you that their religion is THE one.

I would say to you what I would say to any person from any other hundreds of religions : Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. The only thing I know is that I don't know, and that no one can be sure at 100% that what is written in his holy book (Written and edited by humans) is the reality.

I believe in the Universe. I believe that there are a lot of other civilisations in this infinite Universe, and maybe they have their own hundreds of religions, all differents from those on earth. I believe there is something greater than physical being, that our conscience is not limited to our physical body, that life after death is probably like what life before human life was. I think that what we do when we are alive as a tridimensional being influences what will happen to us after we die as a human.

It's my own spiritualty, and I don't know if I'm right or wrong, what I know is that I don't want to believe in something like : there is nothing after death. Some people think like this, but maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong, I don't know, nobody know. It is reassuring to get all these answers to every existential questions from a book, but these answers have been written by humans who succeeded to convince enough people that they were the good ones, regardless wich religion we are talking about, every religion think their own is the one and only one to be trusted. I think they're all lying, "because my religion is more true than any other religion"--Joke---

Do you think there is intelligent life, similar to human race, somewhere in the Universe? If you had the chance to interact with a more intelligent than human being from another planet, would you try to convince him that Jesus is our holy savior, and god is our and their holy father, or you would learn and believe what he would say to you about religions, even if it's completely different from what you think about it?

Anyways, everyone can believe in what he wants. May Zeus, Buddah, Allah, Jesus, God, the Universe and the force be with you ;)

[Troisnyx]

@Rahmemhotep @sebastien01

Insofar as I am a Catholic Christian, I also bear in mind that the joy people around me would have liked to spread over the faith was also restricted where I grew up.

Sure, my faith tradition brought about such gems as Gaudete and Cuncti simus concanentes -- two songs which I thoroughly enjoy singing and beating the drum to -- but I only knew them late, i.e. within the last few years. When you've been alienated for your beliefs as a community and as an individual, the musical medium finds itself stifled. I can bet my bottom dollar that not a SINGLE person in any parish I went to growing up ever knew about those two songs.

When you think about folk songs you think about something that joins the hearts of the people in song and dance. Or maybe solemn reflection. It's not a hymn. It's the journeyman's music.

The purpose of faith is not to make a monoculture. That's what I need to underline here. Culture and faith can be related to a degree, but they are two different things. One can strengthen the other, but that doesn't make them one and the same. That being said, the folk songs of my own ethnicity were lost, there were no songs to join people in the nation where I grew up, and now, I find myself mentally disjointed in a way. My fiancé and my friends consider me an honorary Celt because of my deep interest in their culture and music -- but I can never be one by descent.

If I adhere to my faith, I want it to be enriched, and not brought down by, my understanding of aesthetics, mannerisms, and how they all gel together. That's why someone in the African continent would think and behave and make music differently from, say, someone in the Far East. It doesn't make their traditions or their manner of believing (when it comes to a faith) any less so than their counterparts in the rest of the world.

[sebastien01]

At 5/20/16 07:25 PM, Troisnyx wrote:

When you think about folk songs you think about something that joins the hearts of the people in song and dance. Or maybe solemn reflection. It's not a hymn. It's the journeyman's music.

The purpose of faith is not to make a monoculture. That's what I need to underline here. Culture and faith can be related to a degree, but they are two different things. One can strengthen the other, but that doesn't make them one and the same. That being said, the folk songs of my own ethnicity were lost, there were no songs to join people in the nation where I grew up, and now, I find myself mentally disjointed in a way. My fiancé and my friends consider me an honorary Celt because of my deep interest in their culture and music -- but I can never be one by descent.

I agree totally. The purpose of faith should never be to make a monoculture. This should be the rule number one of every and all religions.. wich is not the case. This way there would never be a religion trying to assimilate other religions. Same thing should be true for a culture trying to dominate another culture. It shouldn't happen.

I just heard your audio reference to what was forbidden where you come from. It's really beautifull. I find it's so sad that some cultures try to oppress other cultures because they think theirs is the one everyone should follow. Live and let live. I like the way you interpret your faith. You let people be what they are, believe what they want to, you don't seem to judge others by their faith only. you enrich yourself of what other people's culture has to give. That's a really good thing every believers in the world should follow as an example. I feel sorry for you about the way your own culture have been oppressed by another one. You are probably talking about a different religion or culture than yours who managed to make your culture vanish in time by oppressing everyone practicing any activity involving your cultural belonging. A lot of cultures that could enrich our history vanished this way, because of oppressors willing to take over other's culture. The oppression begins when a religion/nation's leader think he is the only one to own the truth about what is good and bad.

No matter what you believe in, I think you are a beautifull human being, able to understand other people without imposing yourself a cultural barrier, and without imposing your personal beliefs on other human beings. I hope you find a way to compensate this lack of your own cultural identity in some ways. <3

[SoulSecure]

At 5/20/16 07:08 PM, sebastien01 wrote:

At 5/20/16 06:02 PM, Rahmemhotep wrote: If you're a Christian you've got Jesus Culture. Jesus is 'Cross' cultural, because He died for everyone in the Adamic race (there is one race, the human race which can be referred to as the 'Adamic race' because we all originate in Adam and Eve) and no matter where you are or where you come from, as a believer in the deity, blood, and resurrection of Jesus Christ you are part of the Body of Christ and God is your Father.

Faith is something, folk music is something else.

There is a Jesus culture, there is also a Buddha culture, a Mahomet culture, a Zeus culture, some multitheist cultures and some monotheist cultures.

I said, "If you're a Christian you've got Jesus Culture." Did you notice that, "if," in there? Real, Born Again, Bible-thumpin' Jesus Freaks are each individually one part of the body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:4-6 says There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Our God dwells in us and we get the privilege to call Him, "Father."

Ephesians says also in chapter 4 verses 17 to 24, This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Christians are not like the rest of the world. We are called to be holy (which means 'set apart') and we have been born again to put on salvation and throw off the old man who is dead.

There are some music associated with different religions, like gospel, a lot of J-S Bach music was made for christianity. Even if folk music in some ways might be inspired by the religion of the composer, it still has its own "aura", represented by the nation's political and social history, much more than the religion of the folk music composer.

Christian music is not bound by genre (yes I know you didn't say that). What you've said here reminds me of what the Bible says about the discerning of spirits.

1 John 4:1-6 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Part of that section there, "he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us," is talking about how you (an unsaved man who is currently condemned to Hell in your sin) are not truly going to understand what I'm saying.

My personal belief is that no one can pretend to know the truth about the life after (And before) life on earth, and no one can pretend to know the truth about the exact origin of life.

That reminds me of what God said to Job when Job was being swayed by the bad counsel of his friends who pretended to be wise and know about things that they really didn't know (it's a really long section so I'll give a few key verses in chapter 38).

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?

21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?

God knows everything. Pretending to know things is unwise, but the whole world does it. Unlike the world, we Christians can know where we're going and what's going to happen in the future and can in fact know God, because of the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. In fact Jesus said, "I and my Father are one," and He also said, "he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father," AND, "If ye had known Me, ye should have known My Father also: and from henceforth ye know Him, and have seen him."

There are hundreds of religions,They would try to convince you that their religion is THE one.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. The only thing I know is that I don't know, and that no one can be sure at 100% that what is written in his holy book (Written and edited by humans) is the reality.

Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

It's my own spiritualty, and I don't know if I'm right or wrong, what I know is that I don't want to believe in something like : there is nothing after death. Some people think like this, but maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong, I don't know,

Actually Job thought that there would be nothing after death and proclaims this in several places one of which being Job 17:

If I look for Sheol as my home, I make my bed in the darkness; If I call to the pit, ‘You are my father’; To the worm, ‘my mother and my sister’; Where now is my hope? And who regards my hope? Will it go down with me to Sheol? Shall we together go down into the dust?”

If you recall, God later confronted Job and told him he was wrong.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 reads "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

All Scripture means the Bible.

Do you think there is intelligent life, similar to human race, somewhere in the Universe? If you had the chance to interact with a more intelligent than human being from another planet, would you try to convince him that Jesus is our holy savior, and god is our and their holy father, or you would learn and believe what he would say to you about religions, even if it's completely different from what you think about it?

I'll tell you the same as Ken Ham tells you: https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2014/07/20/well-find-a-new-earth-within-20-years/

[sebastien01]

At 5/20/16 06:02 PM, Rahmemhotep wrote: I said, "If you're a Christian you've got Jesus Culture." Did you notice that, "if," in there? Real, Born Again, Bible-thumpin' Jesus Freaks are each individually one part of the body of Christ.

Yes I noticed that "if". If you would be born with muslim parents, you would believe that every christians would go to hell if they don't go muslim.

Christians are not like the rest of the world. We are called to be holy (which means 'set apart') and we have been born again to put on salvation and throw off the old man who is dead.

Christians are called to be holy, they are born again to make their religion rule over every and all hundreds of other religions, because it's the only good one, the only true one. (It's exactly what every other religions say : We hold the truth, every other religions are bad, we have to clean it up by convincing others that our religion is the best of all, do it's normal you say that your religion is the best of all, they all do that.)

Christians are not like other people, they are better, they are the holy ones. When we talk about vanity.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: Andevery spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

It means that if you don't believe that Jesus came in the flesh of God, you are the antichrist, or a kind of demon. It means that if you don't believe in what is written in the chrisitan's holy book, your life and your soul have less value than christian's one. A pious muslim would say the same thing about christians : "You are on the wrong religion, if you don't believe that Mahomet is the true prophet, your soul and your life has no value and you will go to hell".

What if you have a devotional muslim in front of you, saying to you about Mahomet exactly what you are saying here about Jesus? Who is right, who is wrong? I know you will say that you hold the truth because only christians hold the truth, but let's try to be logical. So many wars could have been avoided if there wouldn't be this vanity coming from those who are placing themselve over the top of everyone else because of their absolute truthful religion (Every religion is as truthful as yours according to their respective holy books). Every religion consider other religion like evil. For a pious muslim, catholics are evil. For a pious catholic, muslims are evil. In the end, every one is evil.

Part of that section there, "he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us," is talking about how you (an unsaved man who is currently condemned to Hell in your sin) are not truly going to understand what I'm saying.

If I don't agree with you are saying, I'm not of God. If I don't hear muslims, I'm not of god for them too, if I don't hear anciant egypt gods, I'm not of their Gods. In the end, who is really of god? The more devouted of wich religion? yours is the best obviously... You know, they (different religions) all hold a different one and only truth...

My personal belief is that no one can pretend to know the truth about the life after (And before) life on earth, and no one can pretend to know the truth about the exact origin of life.

That reminds me of what God said to Job when Job was being swayed by the bad counsel of his friends who pretended to be wise and know about things that they really didn't know

God knows everything. Pretending to know things is unwise, but the whole world does it. Unlike the world, we Christians can know where we're going and what's going to happen in the future and can in fact know God, because of the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. In fact Jesus said, "I and my Father are one," and He also said, "he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father," AND, "If ye had known Me, ye should have known My Father also: and from henceforth ye know Him, and have seen him."

God knows everything. Pretending to know things is unwise, but christians can know where we're going... Are you saying that some christians take themselve for God, being able to know what will happen in the future? Extreme contradictions here. Replace Jesus by Mahomet in this one, and you will see why religions create wars and conflicts more than logical understanding of the world in wich we live.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Timothy says that the bible written by humans represents God's will.

You have a book saying that the only good religion is Catholicism.
There is also a book saying that the only good religion is Islamism.
There is a book saying that the only good religion is the one described in the book itself for almost each of hundreds of religions. And they are all written by humans.

I know, you will say every other religions are representing a kind of sub-race compared to Catholicism.
Other religions will say with the same enthousiasm as yours that their religion is the good one, and people from other religions are sub-races. In the end we're all the sub-race of another religion.

You can write a book yourself, and write into it that if the readers don't believe in what you wrote into it, he has no chance to be saved after death because you wrote it in the name of a X god or Y and Z gods. It will be like every holy books of any other religion then yours. Every religion is better than any other religion. It's a great source of conflict, and it's why some cultures disappear. Because some people from X religion/culture want to oppress other people with their own understanding of what is the "real" truth, rejecting any other way to understand the world in wich we live.

[SoulSecure]

At 5/21/16 10:35 PM, sebastien01 wrote:

At 5/20/16 06:02 PM, Rahmemhotep wrote:

Yes I noticed that "if". If you would be born with muslim parents, you would believe that every christians would go to hell if they don't go muslim.

If you say so. I don't know exactly where Muslims think they're going and it really doesn't have any effect on anything since if you don't submit to Jesus Christ you'll end up in a very real place called Hell and then die a second death in another very real place called the Lake of Fire.

You don't seem to understand that I was not born into a Christian family. I ended up becoming Satanist, actually, and didn't receive much criticism or correction at all from my parents about it. I remember getting a wishy washy talk about it ONE time that lasted maybe 3 minutes from my Mom, but that's it. I was a sexually immoral, drunk, druggie that was obsessed with horror and video games and manga/anime. I was actively searching for the next high. I believed that if I served the devil I would get to torture people in Hell (btw I was not part of the church of Satan, I refuted Anton LaVey's teachings). I thought God was the bad guy in the sky who was against my expression and creativity. I thought Christians were evil people who wanted to bind you in lies. I was absolutely 100% WRONG.

God showed me I was wrong and I had to accept that, count the cost of following Jesus, and confess it. Jesus Christ is the worthy Lamb of God come to die for the sins of man who rose on the third day.

Christians are called to be holy, they are born again to make their religion rule over every and all hundreds of other religions, because it's the only good one, the only true one. (It's exactly what every other religions say : We hold the truth, every other religions are bad, we have to clean it up by convincing others that our religion is the best of all, do it's normal you say that your religion is the best of all, they all do that.)

Except no. We do not need to convince anybody that God is real, because it is evidenced in creation and to say otherwise is foolishness.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

We also don't need to convince people that Jesus is the Son of God who came and died for our sins and rose from the dead, because for one thing it's a recorded historical fact that Jesus was crucified and then seen alive after His death, but it is the Christian's job to spread the Gospel and make disciples and baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit (Matthew 28:19) it's the Holy Spirit Himself who convicts people of this truth when we speak it by faith.

Christians are not like other people, they are better, they are the holy ones. When we talk about vanity.

Wrong again. Christians are SET APART (holy), but we are still SINNERS in a corrupted body. We aren't better than you, we are different from you. You want to talk about vanity, you'd better read Ecclesiastes: “Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.” I haven't said any vain thing.

It means that if you don't believe that Jesus came in the flesh of God, you are the antichrist, or a kind of demon.

No, a demon is a fallen angel. Humans do not become demons. It says they are antichrist, but there are many antichrists. THE Antichrist is a man who will appear shortly.
It means that if you don't believe in what is written in the chrisitan's holy book, your life and your soul have less value than christian's one.

Wrong. God values your life and He loves you. That's why He sent His Son to die for your sins. God is calling you and He wants you to be with Him in Heaven forever.

What if you have a devotional muslim in front of you, saying to you about Mahomet exactly what you are saying here about Jesus? I know you will say that you hold the truth because only christians hold the truth, but let's try to be logical. So many wars could have been avoided if there wouldn't be this vanity coming from those who are placing themselve over the top of everyone else because of their absolute truthful religion (Every religion is as truthful as yours according to their respective holy books). Every religion consider other religion like evil. For a pious muslim, catholics are evil. For a pious catholic, muslims are evil. In the end, every one is evil.

You obviously don't understand what Islam teaches. Mohammad was a 'prophet', not a messiah. The Muslims are still waiting for their 'Isa' who really is not Jesus. I already addressed how we Christians are still sinners like you and really, all the good that comes from us is just God working in and through us. To God be all glory and honour and praise, for only He is worthy.

You should look into the validity of the Bible, because it is unlike any other series of books ever written.

Part of that section there, "he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us," is talking about how you (an unsaved man who is currently condemned to Hell in your sin) are not truly going to understand what I'm saying.

If I don't agree with you are saying, I'm not of God. If I don't hear muslims, I'm not of god for them too, if I don't hear anciant egypt gods, I'm not of their Gods. In the end, who is really of god? The more devouted of wich religion? yours is the best obviously... You know, they (different religions) all hold a different one and only truth...

For being obsessed with calling me vain, you spout a lot of vanity and yet hold me in contempt.

God knows everything. Pretending to know things is unwise, but christians can know where we're going... Are you saying that some christians take themselve for God, being able to know what will happen in the future? Extreme contradictions here.

There's no contradiction here, your lack of Biblical knowledge and self created image of what Christians believe has caused you to say this. We do not consider ourselves God, that's a ridiculous assertion and in fact when the people in Lystra called Paul and Barnabas 'Hermes' and 'Zeus' (respectively) after the Holy Spirit healed a lame man, they tore their clothes to show them their flesh, that it was just as theirs; flesh (read Acts 14:8-18)

You see, I am not PRETENDING to know things. I KNOW things, because God has told me them in His Word. Didn't you read when I said I know God? Jeremiah 9:23-24 Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord.

Replace Jesus by Mahomet in this one, and you will see why religions create wars and conflicts more than logical understanding of the world in wich we live.

James 4:1-3 From whence come wars and fightings among you? Come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Timothy says that the bible written by humans represents God's will.

Wrong. Paul wrote that letter and he said it's 'God breathed' (inspired by God). The Holy Spirit caused the writers to write what they wrote.

You have a book saying that the only good religion is Catholicism.

No I don't. I'm not Catholic.

[Troisnyx]

Oh for the days when this thread focused only on folk songs from a place of origin, the social study side of things.

[sebastien01]

At 5/22/16 03:52 PM, Rahmemhotep wrote: Biblical references

It's ok, I'll burn in hell because I don't believe in what you believe in. I'm the antichrist for not being part of your religion. You are the only one who know the truth and anyone not sharing your point of view is the antichrist, going to burn in hell for eternity. You are the truthfull one and no one can pretend to know the truth, because you and only your religion really know the truth.

I still have one or two questions.
If Adam and Eve are the first humans to ever live on earth, and they had 5 sons and 2 daughters. The third generation comes from the union between Eve and his son, Adam and her daughter, or between brothers and sisters?
If Jesus was a Jew, does it mean that you are in the wrong religion without knowing it?
If Juadism says that Jesus didn't come in the flesh of God, but was just prophet among other prophets, will every jews on this earth burn in hell, even if Jesus was a jew himself?
Is it possible that Jesus himself was in the bad religion?
If someone will burn in hell for the only reason that he doesn't believe the same things as your religion promotes, does it mean that the punishement wont be any worst, even if you kill innocent people all your life? If you kill innocent people, but you believe in what you're saying, is there more chance for you to go to paradise even if you commited horrible crimes? Just because you are a christian?
Is it true that everyone from any other religions than christianism will burn in hell if they don't agree with your religious point of view before the end of their life?

[Troisnyx]

FOR THE LAST TIME, @Rahmemhotep @sebastien01, this is a discussion for the general forum. This started off as an anthropological discussion on folk music and degenerated into some Final Fantasy X-esque streams of theological thought, which this thread was never intended to have any place for. If I WANTED this to be a theological thread, I'd have titled it such, and I'd have called in a good few people who take their faiths seriously not only by principle, but by action. But this is not a thread for such talk. It never was.

Anymore of this on this particular thread and I'll have it locked. The two of you can slug it out among yourselves.

[sebastien01]

At 5/22/16 06:33 PM, Troisnyx wrote: FOR THE LAST TIME, @Rahmemhotep @sebastien01, this is a discussion for the general forum. This started off as an anthropological discussion on folk music and degenerated into some Final Fantasy X-esque streams of theological thought, which this thread was never intended to have any place for. If I WANTED this to be a theological thread, I'd have titled it such, and I'd have called in a good few people who take their faiths seriously not only by principle, but by action. But this is not a thread for such talk. It never was.

Anymore of this on this particular thread and I'll have it locked. The two of you can slug it out among yourselves.

Sorry about it. You're right it's not the good place to talk about religions. I made it skid when I answered Ram's post, my apologies. I won't argue about this subject here anymore.

[ZipZipper]

*ahem*

One fun thing that should exist for most cultures is a national anthem. I decided to look mine up recently because I'm teaching an Indian student her anthem and then I was like wait haha I'm adopted what the Hell is mine. So if anything, everyone should have their own song to represent them. Yep...

[Troisnyx]

At 5/23/16 12:28 AM, ZipZipper wrote: *ahem*

One fun thing that should exist for most cultures is a national anthem. I decided to look mine up recently because I'm teaching an Indian student her anthem and then I was like wait haha I'm adopted what the Hell is mine. So if anything, everyone should have their own song to represent them. Yep...

Except that the anthem of where I grew up was plagiarised from Mamula Moon. Yep.

[LexRodent]

At 5/18/16 08:56 AM, Troisnyx wrote:
My current outlook has been to borrow bits and pieces of cultures I know or have associated with, and this shows in my music and my manner of thinking. I guess it conveys best in music -- though one day I imagine I'd have to write a song about just how much I feel like a vagabond, a vagrant trying to plant my own roots in the ground.

Music as cultural identity, it's a tricky subject for people on countries that have been conquered (or colonized) by big empires (or powerful nations) on the past. A lot of times the native culture is wiped or best case scenario, reduced to isolated communities scattered all over. The more common thing to happen is that it mutates when mixed with the new culture bring by the "new guests". That's what happened on my county.

The "plant my own roots" position, seems like the right thing to do (imo) instead of longing for a now distant culture.
It is also a common occurrence on cultural identity expressions like music.

I'm descendant from both "natives" and "occupants" and I live in a region of the country where a lot of people came as immigrants from various and diverse cultures through the years. I'm none of them completely, but I'm a bit of all them.

[ZipZipper]

At 5/23/16 02:52 AM, Troisnyx wrote:

At 5/23/16 12:28 AM, ZipZipper wrote: One fun thing...

Except that the anthem of where I grew up was plagiarised from Mamula Moon. Yep.

Welp I tried...

[Troisnyx]

At 5/23/16 10:58 AM, ZipZipper wrote:

At 5/23/16 02:52 AM, Troisnyx wrote:

At 5/23/16 12:28 AM, ZipZipper wrote: One fun thing...

Except that the anthem of where I grew up was plagiarised from Mamula Moon. Yep.

Welp I tried...

Sowwie.

Ah well, it is nice to hear other anthems and see what happens. Can I recognise an identity that has been formed over centuries, or can I recognise one that people are making for themselves in the here and now?

[Eagleon]

I feel increasingly displaced, culturally. My hometown I never related to. We're the "brew city," which translates to lots of bars and lots of bar people, who are just boring drug addicts when it comes right down to it. The internet has changed too much in the past 16 years for me to feel I have a place here, the sites I used to frequent have either grown too much to keep their communities intact or stagnated and disappeared. I am a secular humanist buddhist, with admittedly zero cultural connection to other buddhists, or to my parents, protestant and kind of puritanical generic white people. There's a slight knowledge of folk music on my mother's side, where some of her family came from the Appalachians who then moved to do farming in Colorado, but how much can I really relate to of songs about the old west that didn't even relate to my ancestors except tangentially?

Here, traditional folk music has been taken over by the hipster brand of bar people - aka insufferably smug drug addicts. I would love to learn something like the dulcimer, I used to know a bit of harp, but I feel like any real instruments are much too expensive to justify owning. I can sing, but if I were to sing anything folk, it would be about bullshit jobs and the destruction of anything decent about our culture in that tidal-wave of bullshit known as the American dream. No one wants to listen to that.

I think on a personal level, folk music is anything that you pass on to your family. People learn folk music from their parents, and sentiments from that tradition gets passed down through generations that carry people up or remind them that other people have suffered too. That can very easily get lost along the way if a family falls apart like mine, or if the shift in domestic setting is too drastic. I can only hope FL Studio is still relevant when my niece becomes conscious enough to use a computer, because that's basically been my instrument after I lost my piano and the ability to play guitar. Teaching her all the stupid automation tricks me and my brother have learned over the years will be awesome.

There's less of the performance aspect to electronic music, but I really do think electronic is our new folk. Not the mass-manufactured club stuff, but rather the weird little subgenres and styles that bedroom producers come up with in isolation from any expectation of success. The accessibility of softsynth and the flood of new musicians that come from it will quiet down into a more personal exploration of sound, it's just that it will be so much more fractured that it will be unrecognizable except talking to individual families that have made that effort.