At 6/28/16 04:01 PM, EKM wrote:
Disagreed. Art is subjective.

Q: On a rate of 1 to cancer how cancerous is this opinion?
A: Really fuckin' cancerious.

People need to be held to standards so they don't fall below those standards and make abstract modern art shit for pretentious rich cunts who think they know shit when really they're just buying trash from hacks like Basquiat and fuckin' Jackson Pollock. It's shit like this as to why places like New-York and London are now regressive shit-holes full of communist-loving lefty cunts who think capitalism is shit despite airing their displeasure of the financial system through their overpriced apple phone their rich dad's bought them while driving in their European sports car.

It's shit like this as to why the Royal College of Art and CalArts aren't producing enough good and talented artists anymore. Like fuck, when I was in highschool and college (2007-2014) they didn't even teach anatomy, figure drawing or classical painting because the teachers didn't fuckin' know how to do that shit. Art education and art culture is in shambles and it's all thanks to this culture of subjectivism. Like fuck, the best artist that we were taught about was Frieda Carlow and she was just a self-absorbed narcissist who couldn't get her perspective right. No Gustav Klimt, no John Martin, no William Bouguereau, nothing with talent.

A good artist is objectively good. "Subjective" is an excuse used by people who aren't willing to try hard and make the grade.

At 6/28/16 06:25 PM, EKM wrote:
And who's standards are you talking about? Yours?

The average zeitgeist. Thats how NG's scoring system works.

At 6/28/16 10:26 PM, EKM wrote: stuff

The thing I'm trying to say is you should always aim for absolute appraisal and celebration. It isn't enough to have partial appraisal. Never be satisfied with that. Never settle for subjective. Always keep trying for objective.

Just saying something is subjective is a defeatist attitude. It assumes you can't, when really you should be thinking about how you can.

At 6/28/16 11:01 PM, EKM wrote: An opinion is subjective. Taste is subjective. How is that a defeatist attitude? Just because I disagree with someone on what they think is great doesn't mean I've got a defeatist attitude. That makes no sense. Maybe your reply is better applied to the OP.

because people can recognise quality, so if you try hard enough to get your art to a high enough standard then it'd be reasonable to assume everyone would appreciate it on a technical level. People can hate the artist. They can hate the subject. But as long as the execution is perfect people will recognise that.

Just saying "different strokes for different folks" isn't a healthy attitude.

At 6/28/16 11:01 PM, EKM wrote:

At 6/28/16 10:57 PM, M-Maher wrote:

At 6/28/16 10:26 PM, EKM wrote: stuff

The thing I'm trying to say is you should always aim for absolute appraisal and celebration. It isn't enough to have partial appraisal. Never be satisfied with that. Never settle for subjective. Always keep trying for objective.

Just saying something is subjective is a defeatist attitude. It assumes you can't when really you should be thinking about how you can.

?

An opinion is subjective. Taste is subjective. How is that a defeatist attitude? Just because I disagree with someone on what they think is great doesn't mean I've got a defeatist attitude. That makes no sense. Maybe your reply is better applied to the OP.

I agree with M-Maher though I think some metaphor may be needed. Is art subjective? Is beauty in the eye of the beholder? Perhaps. Is the CRAFT subjective? HELL NO. That's what Maher is talking about.

If you're wanting to draw portraits, characters, body figures, landscapes, etc and excel at it, you must understand the fundamentals first. Anyone can cook. You can make dog shit part of your recipe and someone may like it, but it still sucks and shows other chefs you have no idea what the hell you're doing. THERE IS A BASELINE OF UNDERSTANDING THE CRAFT.

I have a degree in music (and I draw cartoons cats.....WTF?). I used to write lots of orchestral cues and pieces before I took formal practice and understood the craft. Then I took years of music theory, studied the greatest composers of human history, then applied the knowledge. The before and after attempts were ridiculous.

Someone will always like your creative material. The question is who do you want to like it? Do you want a groupie parade of grade schoolers and high schoolers playing "YES" people with no art knowledge, or do you want to get in the ranks of industry professionals, aspire to a higher tier, and speak a stronger message?

When I visited the MET in New York City, my mind was absolutely blown away from the Renaissance paintings. The understanding of color, tone, composition, anatomy....holy god. THESE people were the greats, and they had no internet, google images, or text books. THEY WROTE THE BOOK.

When we talk of doing digital art with a trackpad or a mouse, sure you can go for it. However, it's a laughable attempt at saying you're "serious" into art if you have no plans of using an actual WRITING utensil. Whether it's cartoons, landscapes, acid trip paintings, or presidential portraits, all these categories have fundamentals studies that MUST be learned in order to excel at them. A mouse or trackpad gives piss poor control of your movements, is the wrong tool for the job, and nobody before our time would ever even make the attempt.

If you want to eat soup with a fork, great. Just don't convince me you're getting anywhere fast because you look like a dumbass.

Make great art..... or die trying - 2 cent

At 6/29/16 12:51 AM, EKM wrote:

At 6/29/16 12:36 AM, fxscreamer wrote:
I agree with M-Maher though I think some metaphor may be needed. Is art subjective? Is beauty in the eye of the beholder? Perhaps. Is the CRAFT subjective? HELL NO. That's what Maher is talking about.

If you're wanting to draw portraits, characters, body figures, landscapes, etc and excel at it, you must understand the fundamentals first. Anyone can cook. You can make dog shit part of your recipe and someone may like it, but it still sucks and shows other chefs you have no idea what the hell you're doing. THERE IS A BASELINE OF UNDERSTANDING THE CRAFT.

I have a degree in music (and I draw cartoons cats.....WTF?). I used to write lots of orchestral cues and pieces before I took formal practice and understood the craft. Then I took years of music theory, studied the greatest composers of human history, then applied the knowledge. The before and after attempts were ridiculous.

Someone will always like your creative material. The question is who do you want to like it? Do you want a groupie parade of grade schoolers and high schoolers playing "YES" people with no art knowledge, or do you want to get in the ranks of industry professionals, aspire to a higher tier, and speak a stronger message?

When I visited the MET in New York City, my mind was absolutely blown away from the Renaissance paintings. The understanding of color, tone, composition, anatomy....holy god. THESE people were the greats, and they had no internet, google images, or text books. THEY WROTE THE BOOK.

When we talk of doing digital art with a trackpad or a mouse, sure you can go for it. However, it's a laughable attempt at saying you're "serious" into art if you have no plans of using an actual WRITING utensil. Whether it's cartoons, landscapes, acid trip paintings, or presidential portraits, all these categories have fundamentals studies that MUST be learned in order to excel at them. A mouse or trackpad gives piss poor control of your movements, is the wrong tool for the job, and nobody before our time would ever even make the attempt.

If you want to eat soup with a fork, great. Just don't convince me you're getting anywhere fast because you look like a dumbass.

Make great art..... or die trying - 2 cent

Perhaps you should read before you reply, because I mentioned the usage of pencils as well as crossing over to using the mouse as well as excelling as well as learning the basics. Of course in order to excel, one needs to learn the essence, theories, history, etc. That's a no-brainer. My gripe is with this thought that art needs to be exclusively limited to just pencils and paintbrushes or else it's the "wrong tool" to use. That shows a lack of understanding and unfair prejudice in that particular tool. It takes practice and if you've practiced well enough with a pencil, the transition is actually much clearer than you think. Piss poor control? That shows ignorance. Like I said, it takes practice. You can draw lines without them looking like they're going all over the place and off the page. If you know how to apply your art knowledge, there are no limitations. The limitation is only determined by you.

But it's not the same thing. The act of drawing uses your hands. However, you can use any part of your body, but that's mainly an extended exercise. There are people that refuse to go beyond a mouse and don't use other tools in exploring art. Their lack of understanding in art fundamentals shows with this. Again...I am referring to FUNDAMENTALS. If you start doing art trying to paint human bodies with your butt and it sucks, don't try and convince me it's your "artistic expression." It's lazy, and insulting to artists that actually work their ass off....hehe (no pun).

You can use a mouse for an exercise seeing if you can do it. OK. Doing digital art exclusively (and only) with a mouse is an exercise in artistic elitism (and a path to tendonitis). You're doing it ONLY to tell people you did it with a mouse. It's a poor choice for a tool that produces worse results in longer time than someone using a writing utensil. It's like eating soup with a fork. There is no other logical reason for doing so, nor could you ever properly practice art fundamentals. You would be laughed out of every art school in the world walking into a classroom with a mouse.

A mouse doesn't even have pressure sensitivity, so you've already lost part of your artistic toolset.

EXAMPLE. Show me ANYONE in the world that can do this with a mouse, especially in the amount of time. Gesture needs your shoulders and arms to get it correct. A mouse horrendously disconnects that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74HR59yFZ7Y

At 6/29/16 01:16 AM, EKM wrote:

At 6/29/16 01:05 AM, fxscreamer wrote:

I don't care about the time, but I wouldn't neglect the idea that there is someone out there that probably can. The world is full of artistic potential and human capabilities, and not in the shit-tastic way that you described with the butt art example.

I'm sure "shit" art is a real thing. I'm almost positive actually. lol (gross)

I'm sure you guys want to have your discussion about the subjectivity of art ad nauseam, but make a new thread for it.
Stick to the original topic, which was whether drawing with a trackpad is a good idea or not.

(Anything else will be removed)

At 6/29/16 02:23 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: I'm sure you guys want to have your discussion about the subjectivity of art ad nauseam, but make a new thread for it.
Stick to the original topic, which was whether drawing with a trackpad is a good idea or not.

(Anything else will be removed)

Ahem.....drawing with a trackpad is not recommended, nor beneficial of getting better at art. Use a pencil, or save up for a cheap tablet like a Wacom Intuos which you can nab for under $100...sometimes $80 ish on sale. It's a good starting investment. :D

*tips glass and sips some fine brandy*