At 3/23/16 12:40 PM, The-Great-One wrote: I don't know if you're trolling or if you are seriously that blind as to why Trump has so much opposition.

Washington DC is scarred because he will make the system work better and fire some of the lazy do nothings, if not all of them. Trump will probably pull a Rick Scott, and work for free. Using what he would get paid to help balance the budget.

Not a fan of Trump's political platforms, and some of Trump's ideas are just not feasible. He could be a good Commander in Chief, but not a good Chief Executive. He may be a successful billionaire real estate businessman, but politics? Not his forte, in my opinion. He got too many baggages with him, just like Clinton (and to lesser extent, all other Presidential candidates).

While I won't vote for him...I will respects his guts and his aggressiveness. He's the kind of person who don't care what you think about him, and will say what's on his mind. Trump could care less about being "politically correct"...and I respect that. Not saying I agree with him on most issues, but he still have my respect for standing firm in his lines.

At 3/23/16 03:14 PM, EcG-TracyJackson wrote: .I will respects his guts and his aggressiveness. He's the kind of person who don't care what you think about him, and will say what's on his mind. Trump could care less about being "politically correct"...and I respect that. Not saying I agree with him on most issues, but he still have my respect for standing firm in his lines.

I think this is one of the reasons people like Donald Trump. He does not care what people think about him and is not afraid of political correctness. The voters want a President that will stand up for himself and the USA. They are tired of wimpy President that bend over backwards to make other nations happy like Obama.

At 3/24/16 01:29 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: I think this is one of the reasons people like Donald Trump. He does not care what people think about him and is not afraid of political correctness. The voters want a President that will stand up for himself and the USA. They are tired of wimpy President that bend over backwards to make other nations happy like Obama.

Yeah, but Trump is the kind of person that could easily anger all of our close allies. Yes, I don't mind an Executive that is firm and willing to do anything to get things done. But such staunchness...well, doesn't work in this age. Every country needs allies to support them, and with Trump, he could easily do or say something to scare off our allies. The UK isn't so hot on him, nor is Germany...and both of them are our two biggest Western allies today.

At 3/25/16 03:11 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: I wonder, if Trump converted to Islam, would the media bristle and become tongue-tied at the idea of calling his rhetoric violent or dangerous?

Oooh, the buttered cat paradox of political media coverage.

At 3/25/16 03:11 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: I wonder, if Trump converted to Islam, would the media bristle and become tongue-tied at the idea of calling his rhetoric violent or dangerous?

The honest ones? No. I think his converting would actually be the best thing for opponents of Islam who want the media to start using terms they should like "Islamic Terrorism" (because you can call something what it is, without it then implying that is the only form of that term which exists). I think only the dimmest of the dim who can't even master current history can understand that there's "Terrorism" and there's "Islamic Terrorism". You can have both of those things and one won't cancel out the other/

At 3/24/16 01:29 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote:

Going to try this from a different perspective.

I think this is one of the reasons people like Donald Trump.

Agreed.

He does not care what people think about him and is not afraid of political correctness.

But the problem is you HAVE to care about what people think, and how you're perceived if you're President. Foreign leaders have to deal with you, you have to be the number 1 representative of this nation. You also are going to have to work with other people in Congress, in your Cabinet, in other positions high and low within government to get laws passed, budgets done, and do the business of running government. You can't just bully anybody who disagrees or tell them to fuck off or fire them into capitulation.

As far as political correctness...what does that mean to you? Because this race has featured a LOT of rhetoric so far about that concept and a lot of it is absolutely wrong and is being used to take really terrible ideas (including casual racism in some cases) and excusing it under the banner of "it's just more of that evil political correctness stuff". I think perhaps it's time we talk about that....maybe I need to put up a whole other thread in fact.

The voters want a President that will stand up for himself and the USA.

They have that now. It's just that there's a concerted coalition that distorts what he does and cons low information (and I don't mean that to insult you, it's just that what you present to me here is someone who passionately wants to involve himself in the process which is excellent....but maybe hasn't done the work to understand all the whys and wherefores of that process) voters like yourself for their own selfish ends.

They are tired of wimpy President that bend over backwards to make other nations happy like Obama.

Please give me examples of times he's done this. I hear this a lot but I never hear concrete examples for it. This is why I say Donald Trump is the monster the modern Conservative movement, epitomized by Fox News and Roger Ailes made inevitable. He blares all the stuff that they've been conning voters like yourself with for years. I don't say that to take shots at you, I feel BAD for you, and angry at them that they'd take someone who wants to get involved and has a passion to do something to secure his future in a positive way....and turn that in a direction that will do the complete opposite of that.

In the end, if Trump is elected as our next President...I will fully support him. I will never vote for him on my own free will, and I will always disagree with him about certain parts of his domestic and foreign platforms. But if he is democratically elected by the people...then I'll support him.

It doesn't matter if you love or hate a person. But if they are elected by the people, then the people have spoken, and I will respect that. Fingers crossed Trump doesn't win of course...but if he did, well, I suppose I'll respect the decision and back him fully. I think the people should support their elected President regardless of their own political views (they can express their criticisms non-violently ofc), unless he/she is impeached or found guilty of some war crime.

At 3/27/16 10:57 AM, EcG-TracyJackson wrote: In the end, if Trump is elected as our next President...I will fully support him. I will never vote for him on my own free will, and I will always disagree with him about certain parts of his domestic and foreign platforms. But if he is democratically elected by the people...then I'll support him.

It doesn't matter if you love or hate a person. But if they are elected by the people, then the people have spoken, and I will respect that. Fingers crossed Trump doesn't win of course...but if he did, well, I suppose I'll respect the decision and back him fully. I think the people should support their elected President regardless of their own political views (they can express their criticisms non-violently ofc), unless he/she is impeached or found guilty of some war crime.

Absolutely. When I voted in my first election it was between John McCain and Barack Obama. I voted for McCain. When Obama won I merely said "alright, let's see what you got." I have disagreed with some things that Obama has done, but I have nothing fully against him. I do support our President for said position is supposed to speak for the entire country and do what is right for the entire country.

The only branch that doesn't require our support and is supposed to do what we truly say is Congress.

At 3/28/16 01:01 PM, WhaleofaTale wrote:

It's time to get on the Trump Train...choo choo...it's leaving the station headed straight to Washington, D.C.!

Except polls....

At 3/28/16 04:21 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: Ever thought of sticky-ing this? You bring up this fact about once a day, so it's of importance to you clearly

I don't have those kind of options. If I could, I would. Because yeah, it really is getting tiresome to me that a bunch of amateurs who clearly don't follow things as well as others who just decided "this is the person or the team I like, therefore they will win" vs. people who actually do this shit for a living and are rarely (if ever) wrong when it comes to nut cutting time, think they know better. It really does.

The only thing that would propel Trump to the White House in my mind is a 9/11 style attack on American Soil from September-November in the general. Something that catstrophic that the Dems could not do damage control on because they would be blamed. Otherwise, I don't see any Republican candidate based on what I read, that could possibly derail either Bernie Sanders, or the eventual nominee (I think it's just time to start accepting that now) Hillary Clinton. I think there will be a big "hold your nose for Hillary" campaign going on among independents and people that don't like her because the Republican Party just continues to cater to a small minority that anyone outside of that minority thinks is insane and shouldn't be anywhere near big decisions.

Update: Really, it's this kind of nonsense that leads us to have big catch all threads like this. So we can keep the smart, and the not so smart discussion from having equal time and dominating the front page.

At 3/28/16 05:02 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: Agreed. 7 months is 7 years in political time. Not to mention an October or November surprise for each candidate that runs.

Remember, McCain had a shot until the economy tanked. Anything can happen.

At 3/28/16 03:18 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:

At 3/28/16 01:01 PM, WhaleofaTale wrote: It's time to get on the Drumpf Train...choo choo...it's leaving the station headed straight to Washington, D.C.!

You know who else used trains...

Most US presidents have used trains at one point or another, including Demmies.
Since diving for Godwin's law seems like the hip thing to do, here's one for her (have ones for Obama, Ted, and Bernie too):

At 3/29/16 03:53 PM, TylerFromTexas wrote:

Everyone... STOP IT!

I have to agree. I think there's enough in just looking what Trump says and what goes on around him to say "ok, this is bad and against the Constitution and the spirit of the nation, etc" without cranking up the drama dial to Hitler comparisons. The fact that he wants to curb free press, the fact that he endorses curbing free speech by encouraging violence against dissenters, the fact that he encourages xenophobic isolationism. If these things aren't a deterrent enough to you on their own, reminding people that many of the worst dictators of modern, ancient, etc. history is probably not going to do that much more to sway you off the Trump course.

I'm Hitler.

At 3/31/16 03:51 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: The problem is not that any one can be compared to Hitler, it's that Trump is the most fascist candidate we've had run for office since WWII. And many of his policy objectives put him squarely in the camp of leaders like Stalin, Putin, Sadam Hussein, Mussolini, Silvio Bersculoni, Kim Jon Il, and, yes, Hitler.

I don't disagree with this. The problem is the comparison has been so misused for so long....it's lost all gravity with just about anyone who can spell IQ. It's a "boy who cried wolf" type syndrome, unfortunately, we may be at the point where the wolf has actually shown up, but no one believes anymore.

It's not that he's used phrases that most leaders (even those in the group I just listed) used, which many politicians do without ideological commitment to fascism, it's that he actually does present himself as a fascist.

1. He does not believe in free speech. He suppresses and assaults the press. He threatens to sue people who disagree with them. And he implies that people should be shot, punched, or otherwise punished by the government or rogue vigilantes for what they say (protestors and media alike).

I'd like to actually point out he HAS sued people who disagree or make fun of him. He sued Bill Maher back when the Obama Birther Movement was a big deal and Trump sought to capitalize on that. Maher said (as a joke) Trump should show his birth certificate and prove he wasn't the son of an orangutan. Trump sued, it was ultimately dismissed, but the point is this guy has thin thin skin. Which'll go to an overall point I'd like to make later.

2. He is actively targeting minorities in a prejudicial way based on birth, class, sex, and yes religion. This is not only anti american, it's extremely reminiscent of horrible leaders who have committed genocide or instituted horribly discriminatory policies at the national level.

It is, but I wonder if this wasn't more about his being a fringe candidate who on the surface would have no traction unless he riled the lowest common denominator which is easy to get on your side, and fiercely loyal once you do. The problem then becomes trying to pivot that into a serious campaign, which he almost daily is seeing the problems with.

3. He is a master of propaganda, stretching the truth and lying to harness an angry and not quite thinking populace. "State Media" and propaganda are often the tool of dictators who want to invent a truth and force it upon a population.

I think this is more a case of what happens when the media is as fractured as it is now, and someone like Trump runs on the side where that machine has been telling people "trust no authority". Because it's easier for someone like him to go "well the established fucks plot against me, they make thing up, I'm great!" and it works.

We all know Trump is not Hitler. But, we don't know how bad he'll be until he's elected either. All we can know is that he's showing a lot of the signs of horrible no good leaders that start wars, cause huge amounts of damage to economies and the countries they lead, and which normally either severely damage minority populaces or do something to mass incarcerate/enslave/kill them.

That's a fair point. But I think many people are still kind of where I am on him: The guy really has no clue what he's trying to get. If he were elected, I think the job would overwhelm him quick, and he'd either resign or be impeached pretty fast. I think this is a guy who loves the "idea" of being President, but the reality would sober him up pretty quick and scare him shitless.

Let's not split bits over whether its nice or productive to call someone "Hitler" on the internet. Let's talk about how the comparison is not just warranted, but because it is, quite an awful testament to the state of politics and the republican party. Let's talk about why he's popular. What's allowing some thing this awful to exist, etc.

Which by the way, is what folks like myself, and others have done sir. It's more then a little disrespectful from where I sit for you to be sounding like you're saying "nobody is arguing this correctly....except me". The problem with attacking someone like Trump directly is that you aren't dealing with a support base for him that understands facts. It's about feelings, it's about what SOUNDS good. So you've gotta try to take that into consideration I think when you try to talk about Trump in the negative, and when you're trying to convince someone about his wrongness.

We need to deal with this. He has hacked the media cycle to have near constant attention. We don't want this man, a very dangerous man, to rule our country and if appeals to his "Hitlerness" get people to listen, I see no reason to ignore it. Saying it lowers the bar of the conversation is like saying you're incapable of keeping the bar high when you talk about a serious subject.

I'm saying it DOESN'T WORK!!!! You don't want this guy in office? Cool, I don't either. But arguing facts with these people doesn't work. Opening yourself up to a Godwin's Law challenge is a bad play. I keep posting about all the polls that say he'll lose, and people poo poo me, and don't take it seriously. FACTS DON'T WORK WITH TRUMP SUPPORTERS OR THE AVERAGE REPUBLICAN ANYMORE! Sorry to yell, but goddamn, how much clearer do things need to be before you and others get the point?

At 3/29/16 07:08 PM, Feoric wrote: I'm Hitler.

*throws out the spread sheet* well....there goes months of work in trying to prove it. Thanks guy!

At 3/31/16 07:57 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: *throws out the spread sheet* well....there goes months of work in trying to prove it. Thanks guy!

I wanted it to be a big surprise, but I guess you guys were already on to me. Sad!

When compared to Cruz, Trump is actually considered a moderate. While Trump say stuffs that are not very moderate-sounding, his political ideology is actually not very conservative. Cruz is probably more conservative than he is...so if America wants a middle of the road person...I am sadden to say, Trump is the better of two evils.

His platforms are conservative on some (esp immigration), but most of them are slightly more liberal or left-ward than Cruz. However, Kasich is the real moderate here...but he cannot win. Even he Kasich wins all the remaining delegates, he's still under the required number. Kasich's role now is playing spoiler.

Is it at all possible that these extreme comments about abortion
are him pulling the "this was a publicity stunt. Please don't elect me" ripcord?

Because we've seen him come back from things you shouldn't be allowed to come back from before, but this is next level.

At 3/31/16 09:24 PM, stafffighter wrote: Is it at all possible that these extreme comments about abortion
are him pulling the "this was a publicity stunt. Please don't elect me" ripcord?

I kind of think if he was looking to pull that ripcord, he'd have done it by now. I think if this started out as just a publicity stunt....the ego stroke he's gotten from getting this far has changed that game. I think this dickhead really wants it....but like I say, he wants it to hear the name "President Trump" he wants the power, but not the responsibility. Which is why I think if elected he'd either wind up resigning, or he'd be impeached pretty quick based on his complete lack of understanding of how anything works and his complete superiority complex and belief that like Nixon "If The President does it, it can't be illegal"

At 3/31/16 07:56 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: FACTS DON'T WORK WITH TRUMP SUPPORTERS OR THE AVERAGE REPUBLICAN ANYMORE! Sorry to yell, but goddamn, how much clearer do things need to be before you and others get the point?

Facts are working with the average Republican. The average Republicans don't want Trump. It's the psychotic Republicans that want him and are the Trump Supporters. I mean Trump already beat you to the punch on that one with this comment. When he said he could shoot someone and not lose supporters.

His supporters have made a wave and it has turned into a hurricane. Donald Trump is surfing that hurricane. If he slips up even once in their eyes, then they hurricane will swallow him.

Well... welcome to Trump Grounds!

So which side is violent again?

And LOL at NG's new look.

Yeah, I do admits that punishing women who get abortion is a bit too far. Personally, I believes abortion should be made illegal unless it endangers the life and wellbeing of the mother and child. After all, outside of certain emergency circumstances, a woman who get pregnant is probably intentionally pregnant. If that's the case, the woman should expects to take care of it after birth and be a mother to that child. Don't get pregnant if you know you cannot take care of the newborn, is what I'm saying.

At 4/1/16 08:23 AM, EcG-TracyJackson wrote: Yeah, I do admits that punishing women who get abortion is a bit too far. Personally, I believes abortion should be made illegal unless it endangers the life and wellbeing of the mother and child. After all, outside of certain emergency circumstances, a woman who get pregnant is probably intentionally pregnant. If that's the case, the woman should expects to take care of it after birth and be a mother to that child. Don't get pregnant if you know you cannot take care of the newborn, is what I'm saying.

Yeah then you have women who are raped and thus the baby then becomes their fault. However how about the guy? You know the one who can just up and leave at any time and start a new life? If she becomes a mother, he should be a father.

At 4/1/16 01:00 PM, The-Great-One wrote: Yeah then you have women who are raped and thus the baby then becomes their fault. However how about the guy? You know the one who can just up and leave at any time and start a new life? If she becomes a mother, he should be a father.

Well, if the woman was raped, that's another thing. That is actually an "emergency situation"...the unborn can be aborted if the female is a victim of rape, if the female chose to do so. I'm not saying it should be banned for all situations...some are ok in my mind, but unless it's avoidable, then no in my mind.

At 3/31/16 11:00 PM, The-Great-One wrote: Facts are working with the average Republican. The average Republicans don't want Trump. It's the psychotic Republicans that want him and are the Trump Supporters. I mean Trump already beat you to the punch on that one with this comment. When he said he could shoot someone and not lose supporters.

You've got a point there, I really wasn't being fair there. But this is what I'm talking about in terms of it's a tale of two parties, I know some good, moderate "log cabin" type Republicans....but they aren't the loudest voices steering the party right now. It's the Fox News type crowd. It's not just Trump that's a symptom of that, look at who the first runner up is, Ted Cruz....an empty suit of an evangelical who has his own illegal, constiutionally questionable type ideas. The bat shit people have taken control and nobody seems to want to grab the hammer back from them.

His supporters have made a wave and it has turned into a hurricane. Donald Trump is surfing that hurricane. If he slips up even once in their eyes, then they hurricane will swallow him.

Which is really his whole problem for electability. That wave can't carry him through the general, but if he pivots too far away from them, he can't even hope to get that far because he'll never score the nomination without them.

What you're talking about is essentially the same thing I did yesterday. The abortion comments might be an encapsulation but let's look at the direct effect.

Flat out sayin that women who get abortions should be punished is going to alienate a lot of moderate republicans and it just about completly fucks him on the female vote. How devoted to his cause would a a woman have to be to vote for him after that? Even if she is pro life she's still not going to appreciate his tone of male call to scold others.

At 4/1/16 08:19 AM, wildfire4461 wrote: So which side is violent again?

And LOL at NG's new look.

Umm, the #Nevertrump is a conservative movement, not a liberal one.