Hi there,

We are a start-up company developing our first mobile game, Red.

Project Information: Red is an audio-based dialogue driven story game, set out to be the most exciting and thrilling action-packed audio-based mobile game at its release. Red is set in Melbourne, Australia.

Red has been in production for the past 4 months. Each day, as we work hard, it is getting closer and closer to becoming the incredible production that will inspire future games of its kind.

Red contains no adult content nor swearing – only violence in the form of audio.

We provided the opportunity for voice actors to perform many side characters in Red, and it was a total success with much enthusiasm and auditions filling all spots! These voice actors have been paid and will be credited in our project for their efforts.

Now we are providing the opportunity to all you musicians to participate in what we aim to be the most fast-paced, constantly flowing, intensely gripping and immersing audio-based game at its release! We would love to have you and your talent on board!

Submissions deadline: 08/04/2016 (8th April 2016)

Recording and Contact Information:
- Export as a .mp3 (at least 256 kbps), at least 44100hz. If your track/s are selected, we will ask for high quality .wav/s
- Name your submissions with the track names as well as your full name/artist name with no spaces. E.g. Destiny_by_Matthew_Arthur
- .RARs and .ZIPs are okay
- You must have a legal right to use all samples used in your track/s
- Send your submissions to plgauditions[at]gmail.com
- Let us know your full name and/or artist name in the email (for credits)
- Multiple submissions are allowed
- If there are any vocals, please send us both versions (one with vocals, one without)
- Please mix your track. However, we will do the mastering so no limiter (because I am an audio professional, I actually appreciate sound for what it is and look past the loudness factor) :D

Payment:
As we are a start-up, we are able to afford a modest amount of $20.00 USD per music track we use via PayPal. We predict we will use 2-3 tracks from this venture, however, there is no limit as to how many we will choose for the game and the soundtrack. If we get a heap of awesome tracks that we feel the need to use (even for future projects), we will!

How this will work:
Below are two short music tracks (in-progress) that I am working on to be used in Red. These two tracks will give you an idea of the kind of vibe we plan to use in the game, however, you can be creative as you like! These tracks are simply there to give an idea of the vibe Red will need rather than the actual sound and instrumentation.

https://soundcloud.com/play-loud-games/beginning
https://soundcloud.com/play-loud-games/action

What I will say is that if you submit a track that has a generic vibe, it will not be accepted. However, if you submit a creative innovative track that fits the vibe, the chances of being successful will be a lot higher. Red is an edgy game, so its music has to be edgy too!

I will also say that if your submissions are melodic, I also recommend having some parts in your track that are less melodic so they will fit well when dialogue and other sounds are occurring in the game. However, melody is also great as all tracks that are selected will be released in the official soundtrack!

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!

Thank you!

All the best,
Matthew Arthur
Play Loud Games

Are you looking for any specific kind of music?

I made a techno once: Chaos

Ooh, this is very relevant to my interests! I'll see if I can cook something up for this.
Can we send more than one track?

At 2/18/16 11:40 AM, Demonic-Overmind wrote: Are you looking for any specific kind of music?

I made a techno once: Chaos

Hi there!

Please refer to the "How this will work" section of the first post to answer your question :)

Regarding the track you posted, we will not be accepting any music that is submitted elsewhere and is not made specifically for Red. However, I will say that your track, Chaos, is a bit too "cute" and trancy for our needs. Please refer to the two tracks linked in the first post to get an idea of the vibe :)

At 2/18/16 01:27 PM, Oakwood wrote: Ooh, this is very relevant to my interests! I'll see if I can cook something up for this.
Can we send more than one track?

Hi Oakwood,

Absolutely! Multiple submissions are allowed :)

All the best,
Matthew Arthur
Play Loud Games

Hi there!

Please refer to the "How this will work" section of the first post to answer your question :)

Regarding the track you posted, we will not be accepting any music that is submitted elsewhere and is not made specifically for Red. However, I will say that your track, Chaos, is a bit too "cute" and trancy for our needs. Please refer to the two tracks linked in the first post to get an idea of the vibe :)

ahh, my bad, I didn't read the full post. I'm currently working on a chillstep track which is almost done. I'll mail that to you.

At 2/18/16 06:14 PM, MatthewPLG wrote:

Regarding the track you posted, we will not be accepting any music that is submitted elsewhere and is not made specifically for Red.

Well i guess you are quite new to the market or you dont respect music as craft and artform. Maybe you are not aware that even non exclusive work is starting at 100 - 200 bucks per minute - its the standard entry. You want a total buy-out for $ 20 for a whole track (not even per minute)? Usually a buy-out of rights starts in the area of $ 400-500 per minute and if you are looking for stronger material we easily talk about rates between 500 and 1k. And i want to point out that we are talking about prices for stronger / advanced beginners. I would have understood that you offer 20 bucks for a non exclusive track - that at least would have shown some realism. But this is ... daring :)

I dont want to offend anyone here. But if you are a start up that wants to be taken serious you should inform about how the game composing market is working and what a lience (non exlusive or exclusive aswell) is approximately worth.

However - whoever wants to work for those conditions: Have fun!

lol

$20 per track when people work on their tracks for 4+ hours

nice

At 2/19/16 04:20 PM, SoundChris wrote: Well i guess you are quite new to the market or you dont respect music as craft and artform.

Hi Chris,

I understand where you are coming from. Believe me, I have been creating music myself for many years so I understand how much effort goes into writing and producing.

Because of this, we would love to be able to pay a lot more but at this stage, it is not an option, unfortunately.

We understand your concerns and your decision to not participate.

However, for those who want to contribute to such a project and get their name on it (and most likely be contacted for future projects, which we will then be able to afford a much more desirable rate), the modest payment is an extra bonus.

At 2/19/16 04:32 PM, Sequenced wrote: $20 per track when people work on their tracks for 4+ hours

Hi Sequenced,

This may be true. This would mean the musician gets paid around $5 per hour. But it is also true that if you calculate how much time we have put in so far, our pay rate is much, much less. In fact, it is $0.00.

Of course, we are working towards something that we aim to be profitable, but the fact is, none of that profit has been made yet so we are offering the best we can reasonably provide at the moment. When profit is made, we will gladly pay what the artists deserve.

I would have understood that you offer 20 bucks for a non exclusive track - that at least would have shown some realism. But this is ... daring :)

It is quite daring. And so is our project. We want a unique experience all-round, and this means unique sound effects, unique story, unique game mechanics... and unique exclusive music. Anything less is not good enough.

Story and game mechanics are basically completed and are just being touched up. Sound effects - well, we are going to spend a fair few hours recording what we need to achieve this. As for music, this is where any interested musicians can come in. I am already working on two tracks (as mentioned in the first post), but we would love for other artists to contribute!

If this project does not appeal to you, then the opportunity is not for you and you can continue to create music for no profit (or if you are making profit from your music, then this project is definitely not for you unless the concept excites you). However, if this project does interest you, you can create music, get paid a modest amount, get your name on it, and open up doors for the future.

If you want to be a part of what are we working towards, then we would love to have you on board!

All the best,
Matthew Arthur
Play Loud Games

At 2/19/16 04:32 PM, Sequenced wrote: lol

$20 per track when people work on their tracks for 4+ hours

nice

If I got paid 20 dollars for every track I made I'd have a career.
Not a very good point, honestly, since I can usually only afford to pay artist 20 dollars for album covers. But when I post those listings people call me cheap. Really I'm just poor, half the time that 20 dollars is borrowed and paid back with album sales.
:(

But this also isn't a guaranteed 20 dollars either. It's more of an audition, but I guess if they don't pick your song you can just sell it to someone else.

So, instead of seeking a single composer to provide the continuity for "an audio-based dialogue driven story game" you're going to hand out a quarter of a food stamp to any random person willing to make music specifically for you? I might barely understand that price if it was for tracks already made, but I suppose either way this game will be a "unique experience" indeed. My only question is what did you pay those voice actors you "provided an opportunity" for?

At 2/20/16 04:35 PM, Tacticat wrote: I dunno, food stamps sound better than starvation.

But in this case, you can avoid both by simply not selling yourself short and giving a damn. There's many differences between a mutually beneficial service and taking advantage of people fooled into desperation.

So, to those of you saying that $20 is slave labor, I would like to point out that I sort of agree, but at the same time, as someone that barely gets payed enough to keep going, who has been looking for a paying game audio job on a regular basis and not getting anything, $20 per track seems pretty good if you have the time to do it. I stress that last part, if you have the time. Obviously if you have better things to be doing, don't do it, $20 isn't worth it. However if you have extra time and would like to work on something that might actually get somewhere (like myself) then $20 is totally worth it, especially since the game is apparently almost finished. That is infinitely better than working on it for free. It's good for practice, it's good for credits, and its good for getting in the mind set. But only if you don't have anything better to do.

I for one, will be participating in this assuming I find the time to do so.

Addendum.

I should add though, regardless of what I said in the previous post, a more formal contract should be used when it comes to which tracks are being used and which are not. As long as a real contract is being used and the musician isn't getting screwed out of the tracks that are not getting used, everything will be good.

Just thinking out loud...

Maybe a talented newbie would take the offer up to help build their portfolio,
maybe an unused track doing sweet fuck all could be offloaded for $20 more than you had yesterday,
maybe the game might even blow up, give you some priceless exposure,
maybe the music is this game could lead you to your next better paying job.

Maybe the NG "pros" should lead by example in the NGAP and display professionalism. How about a counter offer? If you can't reach an agreement, move on. That's business. These assaults on low paying job offers will prevent the NGAP from growing into a respectable place of genuine opportunity imo.

But what do I care, I don't even make music for games. /end2c

^^^

RealFaction = most diplomatic

*applause*

Very well said.

Create a professional environment and people will act professionally. Regardless of the strength of the opportunity, reply professionally. Or say nothing. If people respond to weak offers by simply stating their rate, OP has the opportunity to negotiate an acceptable compensation package or simply accept they must find another path to take.

Or you could fill their threads with condescension and abuse and damage NG's reputation as well as your own.

At 2/20/16 12:36 PM, ZipZipper wrote: My only question is what did you pay those voice actors you "provided an opportunity" for?

We paid successful voice actors $3.00 USD per side character (about 3-5 lines). Despite this very modest payment, we were blown away when so many auditions came through. We are extremely grateful for all the time and effort people put in for our projects and hope that in the future we can pay them back what they truly deserve, and also that we can work with them in the future.

At 2/21/16 12:23 AM, RealFaction wrote: Welp, that's my 2 cents on it.

Thank you, RealFaction, for your contribution and to everyone else who has defended us in this thread.

I would also like to say, for the benefit of the Newgrounds musicians, that if we could afford to pay the standard fee, we would not be posting on this forum. If we were willing to pay the standard rates, we would not be accepting unproven artists' auditions, but would go straight to a proven professional musician.

From an entrepreneur's point-of-view, if Newgrounds is a place where only standard rates are accepted, entrepreneurs most likely will not come here. The value proposition is not high enough for entrepreneurs, movie producers, app developers etc, who can afford to pay the standard fee, to come here and pay those rates and then sift through a bunch of amateur work. They will go elsewhere where they can find already proven professional artists, and get tailored tracks delivered for that price.

And in the case of app developers, like ourselves, who cannot afford to pay the standard fee, if we feel that Newgrounds will not benefit us in our situation because Newgrounds users will find what we can afford to be insulting, we will go elsewhere (and we have posted this in other forums and have received submissions already... some really good ones, too, I might add!).

If I was another entrepreneur looking for musicians and could afford to only pay a similar rate and I was thinking of posting on Newgrounds - if I saw this topic and how much hate was received, I would not hesitate to close the tab and look at other forums. Not worth the hassle.

By shooting down entrepreneurs like ourselves in these situations, you shoot Newgrounds and its future opportunities presented by entrepreneurs and visionaries as well.

And to everyone else who does understand our situation, and recognises that we are a start-up, working for a successful future, and "roughing it" in the beginning doing the best with what we've got, thank you!

We have enjoyed listening to all current submissions and eagerly look forward to future submissions!

All the best,
Matthew Arthur
Play Loud Games

At 2/20/16 11:20 PM, TimothyAdan wrote: As long as a real contract is being used and the musician isn't getting screwed out of the tracks that are not getting used, everything will be good.

Hi Timothy,

Of course the tracks remain 100% yours unless an agreement is reached otherwise.

The artists of successful submissions will be contacted regarding the tracks we want to use, and then they can decide if they agree for us to use it in the way we want. We will also contact all unsuccessful artists to notify them.

You will notice that there is no "by submitting your tracks to us you give us the right to do whatever we want with them" clause in the first post, which you will see in many other music opportunities on the web.

We respect your work and if we want to use it, we will contact you with all the terms, and then you have the opportunity to agree or disagree. Until then, we have no rights over any submissions you send us unless an agreement is reached afterwards. Your music remains yours! :)

All the best,
Matthew Arthur
Play Loud Games

It seems that this thread has gotten a bit out of hand...

At 2/25/16 10:49 AM, EverReverb wrote: It seems that this thread has gotten a bit out of hand...

It was, but I've cleaned it up now. Proceed..

At 2/25/16 07:07 PM, BrokenDeck wrote:

At 2/25/16 10:49 AM, EverReverb wrote: It seems that this thread has gotten a bit out of hand...

It was, but I've cleaned it up now. Proceed..

That was really cool of you, BrokenDeck! Thanks! :)

IS 20$ A GOOD OR BAD PRICE?

Well, depending on the length and quality of a track, you can get on AudioJungle or Pond5 a track for use in a single product starting from 1$. However, this doesn't cover games which you sell multiple times. For that you must buy an "extended license" and that start from around 20-30$ up to 75-100$, and we are talking about NON-EXCLUSIVE license.

OP wanted an EXCLUSIVE deal for 20$. Let me quote:

At 2/18/16 06:14 PM, MatthewPLG wrote: Regarding the track you posted, we will not be accepting any music that is submitted elsewhere and is not made specifically for Red.

So, custom and exclusive. On Audiodraft used to be one more zero at the end for a custom track for NON-EXCLUSIVE. For EXCLUSIVE licensing usually is two more zeros at the end.

SOLUTION?
1-Make the deal NON-EXCLUSIVE?
2-Make a free version of the game for Newgrounds. (I'm not saying "make the game free", I mean, make a limited demo version) so for that particular version you could take music from Newgrounds for free.
3-Instead of a fixed price, maybe you share percents of the income with the musicians?
4-Buy licenses from AudioJungle, GameAudioBox, Pond5, Revostock, iStock...etc, or start a crowdsourcing project on AudioDraft or FGL. However, it will be probably NON-EXCLUSIVE and a bit more expensive than 20$.

Or, OP, you can reach an agreement with some musicians you like from Newgrounds, that you will use their music in future projects with a better price if your company will be more successful.

At 2/27/16 08:35 AM, RealFaction wrote:

At 2/27/16 07:05 AM, sorohanro wrote: IS 20$ A GOOD OR BAD PRICE? + other stuff

This is the smartest list of points I've seen in this thread yet. Very good points and it's helpful! :) we need more users like you lol

I wrote almost the same... but thank god my post was deleted :)

Hello Matthew,

Is there still room for more submissions?
I've seen your deadline, but I'm just wondering if this deadline is still intact.
I'm a game engineering student in my country and as a side job I make film score and game score.

My name here is PotencY. I'm an Amateur house / trance producer with this alias.
Mea Anima however, is an alias I'm using for my score productions.
Here is my soundcloud link with 3 songs displayed.

Does any of the 3 songs in there correlate with the view of your game?
If so, I might work on an exclusive track for your game.
Of course I'm not very happy with the modest 20 dollar payment,
but I'm prepared to see it as an addition to my CV for the rest of the lacking money.

I do however, need an honest opinion on the music style, as I prefer only starting a production if the chance of success is fair. Please refer to my latest song on soundcloud as reference material as I am still quite new at this genre.

Mea Anima on Sound Cloud
Mea Anima on Youtube

Looking forward to be hearing from you!

Kind Regards,
Mea Anima.

At 2/28/16 12:50 AM, PotencY wrote: Hello Matthew,

Is there still room for more submissions?
I've seen your deadline, but I'm just wondering if this deadline is still intact.
I'm a game engineering student in my country and as a side job I make film score and game score.

My name here is PotencY. I'm an Amateur house / trance producer with this alias.
Mea Anima however, is an alias I'm using for my score productions.
Here is my soundcloud link with 3 songs displayed.

Does any of the 3 songs in there correlate with the view of your game?
If so, I might work on an exclusive track for your game.
Of course I'm not very happy with the modest 20 dollar payment,
but I'm prepared to see it as an addition to my CV for the rest of the lacking money.

I do however, need an honest opinion on the music style, as I prefer only starting a production if the chance of success is fair. Please refer to my latest song on soundcloud as reference material as I am still quite new at this genre.

Mea Anima on Sound Cloud
Mea Anima on Youtube

Looking forward to be hearing from you!

Kind Regards,
Mea Anima.

Hi Mea Anima,

Thanks for reaching out! Submissions are most certainly still welcome!

I checked out your SoundCloud - cool music!!

Your style seems like something that would fit our game! I feel like that if you create something a little less melodic and less overly structured in the chord progressions (if that makes sense), you could definitely create something we would love to use! If you make something similar to Aversion (slow and with a touch of sadness), I feel this would go really well with a part in our game :)

All the best,
Matthew Arthur,
Play Loud Games