Can we all agree to not let any big game use NG audio integration again? We all know what happened when GD did it.

Is it possible that a game algorithm can determine if an audio is copyrighted and not uploadable to NG in the first place, or not? If such a mechanism can be made -- and believe me, it'd be a huge endeavour and a huge success if it actually works -- then fine, we can allow it. @Zhenmuron had the best of intentions in mind, he wanted everyone to see the undiscovered music. Trouble is, people don't give a flying feck.

At 12/3/15 09:42 AM, Troisnyx wrote: Is it possible that a game algorithm can determine if an audio is copyrighted and not uploadable to NG in the first place, or not? If such a mechanism can be made -- and believe me, it'd be a huge endeavour and a huge success if it actually works -- then fine, we can allow it. @Zhenmuron had the best of intentions in mind, he wanted everyone to see the undiscovered music. Trouble is, people don't give a flying feck.

That's what I mean. The intentions were good, but if it happens again, we get twice as much dumpers.

At 12/3/15 09:42 AM, Troisnyx wrote: Is it possible that a game algorithm can determine if an audio is copyrighted and not uploadable to NG in the first place, or not? If such a mechanism can be made -- and believe me, it'd be a huge endeavour and a huge success if it actually works -- then fine, we can allow it. @Zhenmuron had the best of intentions in mind, he wanted everyone to see the undiscovered music. Trouble is, people don't give a flying feck.

Things like youtube and soundcloud use a 3rd party service. they scan the audio and tell the host (Newgrounds) if its in their database.

I imagine this service is expensive and is only used when lawyers are already threatening the company though.

No idea if newgrounds could afford it or if its possible with newgrounds current code and whatnot though,

This wouldnt have to be a game thing, if its used in the audio portal the songs would never be able to be uploaded in the first place.

If there are any signed people with music in this services database who upload to NG, they have to be whitelisted by that company or uploaded their own songs would get taken down. just a note.

Maybe we need to attack this geometry dash from a different angle. Maybe we just have to try some different cause and effect scenarios. Maybe we could make a mock up work of popular songs they keep uploading so they have a vanilla version of it to finally play? (Such as a cover?) Maybe the creator should just allow people to play the game using the music they bought, but have it scoreless? Maybe the creator could generate new content for the game that can only be unl8cked by playing hand picked songs by the creator in the ng audio portal? (Unlocking new costumes or level design tools, etcetera by exploring the ng audio portal?)

Maybe the creator could make it so it reads the id3 tags of any file submitted and have the game delete their saved data when it registers popular ng rule breaking guidelines?

I mean if kids are smart enough they would change that info easily but how does NG work? Does it overwrite id3 tag information? I would think most kids don't know or are too lazy to edit the id3 tag info.maybe we could create specific scan algorithms to look at basic id3 info and stop some of the bleeding. A lot of illegally downloaded mp3s have altered data but honestly they are just as easily identifiable in this manner. They have their own search terms.

We have it where someone has to be scouted first to be accepted into the audio portal but more could be done. Maybe we could have a section upon making new profiles for newgrounds where we can easily flag everyone upon entry by asking them if they play geometry dash. For some of us it is hard to know every commercial song in the world. But flagging them upon entry would speed up the process.

Maybe we could create a video that they are forced to watch before they can submit their first audio that explains in every aspect and in lamen terms "DO NOT UPLOAD WORK THAT ISN'T YOUR CREATION. YOU WILL GET CAUGHT, YOU WILL GET BANNED, And your geometry dash game will have its saved data completely erased." Maybe even post up an automatically generated script of most recent usernames that have been banned because of this. Just to discourage them from trying to do this every day. And also do it in different languages so they understand it better.

There has to be a way of which we can thwart their every attempt to do this. We just have to be smart enough to do it in such a manner that saves not only bandwidth, but computational power or server stress, and the image of newgrounds. Or better yet reinforce the image of newgrounds.

I would like to point out that if you both have permission from an artist, and give them credit for their music used in something you made, then it would be alright. The new collaboration could promote both what you made, and their song, thus making both of you more popular. (not sure if there is a level "credits screen" for this thing or how people see the song title used in gd, please explain)

This is kind of off topic but if anyone would like to use my music on newgrounds in a level, you have my permission. I didn't buy the game, but more importantly, even though I wouldn't mind buying it... I do not own an android phone, which I assume is probably much more expensive. I would like to see a playthrough of the level though, just so I know what it looks like on youtube or something =)

Stupid will be stupid.
Stupid kids dont understand, nor care.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/322170/discussions/0/617335934147419017/
So hire more mods and put that banhammer to good use and give them some revenue share from dev for the trouble. :D

The only other option I see would be to insert a scouted NG username (i.e. disable the audio linking option), and entering a username would allow the game to fetch songs already uploaded on said user's page. With the stricter rules we have on scouting audio users, I can see this working.

Scouting audio users who have stolen audio or ear raep would lead to a ban anyway, so there's a deterrent from such behaviour, even among us regulars.

Not sure if such a thing could be implemented into a game, but I know applications do this anyway.

At 12/3/15 09:38 AM, CamRa wrote: Can we all agree to not let any big game use NG audio integration again? We all know what happened when GD did it.

The dev went about asking for permission the right way and we agreed to it, but if I have any say in the matter, we will NEVER allow this to happen again. GD has been nothing but a hassle for everyone. The only person who has definitely benefited from this is the developer. Live and learn I guess?

At 12/4/15 11:07 AM, CamRaNG wrote: Huh, I don't know if Rob is fond of what happened to NG after GD integration and vice versa, I'll ask him on twitter.

Yeah nobody really could have known this would happen.

At 12/4/15 11:51 AM, CamRaNG wrote: But the NG staff / Audio mods may have to ask him, because you guys are a big part in keeping NG DMCA/theft free

Ask him what? We've done about all we can with that. We've been in contact with him. Not much more we can do at this point.

I had an idea, and no it doesn't solve the dumping problem....

Would it help if there was a short ad before playing a user-made level?

It would help generate revenue.

tbh I would rather have a tighter filtering system with more audio mods to sift through the abusers in exchange for more integration with 3rd party games.

At 12/3/15 09:38 AM, CamRa wrote: Can we all agree to not let any big game use NG audio integration again? We all know what happened when GD did it.

The fuck? GD isn't the problem, the problem is the stewpeed people that upload songs that aren't made by them.

At 12/4/15 01:29 PM, CamRaNG wrote:

At 12/4/15 01:27 PM, Cochu wrote:

At 12/3/15 09:38 AM, CamRa wrote: Can we all agree to not let any big game use NG audio integration again? We all know what happened when GD did it.

The fuck? GD isn't the problem, the problem is the stewpeed people that upload songs that aren't made by them.

Well, GD started 95% of the problems.

I remember that before 1.9, TheFatRat didn't have an account, but his songs were uploaded.

At 12/4/15 01:38 PM, CamRaNG wrote:

At 12/4/15 01:35 PM, Cochu wrote:

At 12/4/15 01:29 PM, CamRaNG wrote: Well, GD started 95% of the problems.

I remember that before 1.9, TheFatRat didn't have an account, but his songs were uploaded.

That was theft. Then GD 1.9 comes and the audio portal is a shitstorm of theft.

@ThisIsTheFatRat opted to put his songs here, but he's the ONLY ONE out of all the famous artists out there who has actually decided to join NG. I think the rest of the internet would be appalled by the kind of behaviour audio thieves have. The others wouldn't join NG because let's be honest, NG is not a place for mainstream cash cows. We are all indie artists being supported in a pretty big family. Just because TheFatRat joined, doesn't mean that this sort of behaviour would be followed by others -- in fact, I don't think anyone else wants to pander to the Geometry Dash audience, which I cannot help but think are a bunch of teens who don't know how to follow the rules, or don't care.

This sort of thing discourages people from even sharing their music online, because it's not going through the proper channels.

1. If you uploaded that song, did you ask that person's permission? No.

2. If you uploaded that song, did you go through the proper channels to do it (i.e. purchase it, or even sign a contract with the author of that song to use it in a GD level)? No. And if that artist wanted his music used in a GD level, he'd have signed up to Newgrounds by now.

3. Did you create that music? Absolutely not. Therefore it is theft.

4. Is posting this sort of music going to prevent lots of people from discovering the indie stuff here? Probably yes, because for a lot of uploaders, mainstream music is what they've heard, and it's all they know.

The only way for such a problem to 'evaporate', from what I can tell, is to give it all the time in the world it has. No program has an eternal shelf life, and until interest for it fizzles out, we report every single theft we can find. Damage control.

At 12/4/15 01:48 PM, Troisnyx wrote: @ThisIsTheFatRat opted to put his songs here, but he's the ONLY ONE out of all the famous artists out there who has actually decided to join NG.

I'm currently going through the process of verifying one of the Panda Eyes accounts here on Newgrounds whether it's really him or not. If it's really him, which is more likely this time around, we'll have another high-profile user :)

At 12/4/15 01:13 PM, FinaLee wrote: tbh I would rather have a tighter filtering system with more audio mods to sift through the abusers in exchange for more integration with 3rd party games.

Are you volunteering to do that? :)

At 12/4/15 01:13 PM, FinaLee wrote: tbh I would rather have a tighter filtering system with more audio mods to sift through the abusers in exchange for more integration with 3rd party games.

I feel like all scouts should be required to go through a mod in order to be accepted.
(I actually thought this was how it worked already until I got scouted myself.)

Another idea I have is to delay the ability to be scouted until at least a month or two, or longer.

At 12/4/15 03:04 PM, Gragon73 wrote: I feel like all scouts should be required to go through a mod in order to be accepted.
(I actually thought this was how it worked already until I got scouted myself.)

It used to be that way some time ago, but they changed it a few years ago.

At 12/4/15 03:15 PM, EverReverb wrote:

At 12/4/15 03:04 PM, Gragon73 wrote: I feel like all scouts should be required to go through a mod in order to be accepted.
(I actually thought this was how it worked already until I got scouted myself.)

It used to be that way some time ago, but they changed it a few years ago.

Actually, the whole scouting system was only brought about a year or two ago; audio posters never had a scouting system before that -- anyone who posted audio prior to the scouting system was free to do so as soon as he signed up.

At 12/4/15 02:04 PM, BrenTheMan wrote:

At 12/4/15 01:13 PM, FinaLee wrote: tbh I would rather have a tighter filtering system with more audio mods to sift through the abusers in exchange for more integration with 3rd party games.

Are you volunteering to do that? :)

This armchair is pretty comfortable.

I wouldn't say Geometry Dash made this issue. The issue was here before already. It just wasn't so big yet. Now with People being able to use music form NG into Geometry Dash the issue got intensified.

What I know from soundcloud is that it checks if the same kind of wave form is already on the server. If it detects too much of the same then it will be locked down and be looked at by mods.

So far as I can understand all this is what will help is to have more moderators checking out the music and maybe implementing such a system soundcloud has.

Well lets not stop thinking of ways to help deter this from happening.

I am a fan of what tri said. Stricter rules on new users posting into the audio forum right away.

We could probably do something more like requiring first file submissions to be less than 1.75 MB's in size. (Which if the kids are dumb enough they will try to fit a 4 minute song into a 1.75 MB file. Which in return the song will sound like crap and hopefully they will give up.)

By doing this we should state that we want to hear what the music producer is capable of within 5 different 1 minute demonstrations.

This will do two things.

1: The most best part of any song will be selected no matter what. So stupid kids will automatically pick the best part of skrillex's new song, or the chorus section of "When worlds collide," that is easily identifiable among all of us NG users to judge immediately. (Almost as if we are trying to make the mod's job AT LEAST a little tiny bit easier for them.)

2: If the kids are dumb enough they will compress any song to around 40 KBPS to meet the file size requirements. And that crappy sound will be a big ol huge gigantic red flag we could all immediately hear. Ever heard one of your own songs at 40KBPS? TRY IT it sounds so crumby you would lose interest in some of the best songs almost immediately.

We tell them it can not be a 1 minute demonstration of multiple songs. It also can not have any silence. (Unless the silence is part of the dynamics in an ambient song, but it can not be complete and utter silence, there has to be something there.)

With that in mind we could essentially have more people aware of the wrong doing and help point out to the mods more quickly WHO TO USE THE BAN HAMMER ON.

But hey this is just one idea. I am certain we can come up with a much more effective way in discouraging this behavior.

At 12/4/15 09:07 PM, NekoMika wrote: In the end, regardless of what we do, kids will never learn. Some don't speak English and thus don't even understand the rules tell them not to upload what they did not make. The project page doesn't even mention making sure what you upload is your own.

I agree with this. I think the majority of the problem is coming from kids who don't really read the rules and just want to dump files and making levels ASAP. This is completely out of our control and I think the only way to fix this is to make sure we don't attract any more people like that.

Or we could have 3 consecutive popup warnings for unscouted users saying:
"Is this 100% your original content?"
"Are you reaaalllyy sure this is your content"
"If this is not your content you will be banned from this site"

How are these people getting scouted anyway?

The problem with "More control" solutions is that you put another burden on the regular "innocent" user.
In the same way companies "fight" piracy by forcing fellow customers to use iloks and all that kind of stuff.
If anything it gives an incentive to use cracked software or boycott.
You are guilty until proven innocent mindset.
There are already enough options in the project dashboard.

Meanwhile dumb continues to be dumb no matter what you throw at him.
Ex: https://steamcommunity.com/app/322170/discussions/0/613958868371565418/

The last answer is your typical 11 years old brat in denial. "Sorry not sorry, its not meee, Okaaaay? Its my friend who used my computer to hack in counter strike" whine whine

I think it has to be very simple/dumb from the user side, instead of overwhelming/booooo-ring them with rules they dont care about in the first place, put a big RED bold Yes/No popup, stating "Not YOUR music? =>PERMA BAN! :( :(" or better a NG style picture/roadsign and a link to the Rules.
Something so simple even the dumbest non english speaker understand.
Might be a good deterrent. Of course dumbest will still try^^

http://images.travelpod.com/tripwow/photos/ta-009b-5df4-98aa/trespassers-will-be-shot-sibu-malaysia%2B1152_12817697119-tpfil02aw-1120.jpg

Meanwhile more audio mods and witch hunting^^

At 12/5/15 08:13 PM, CamRaNG wrote:

At 12/4/15 02:04 PM, BrenTheMan wrote:

At 12/4/15 01:13 PM, FinaLee wrote: tbh I would rather have a tighter filtering system with more audio mods to sift through the abusers in exchange for more integration with 3rd party games.

Are you volunteering to do that? :)

OOH, ME ME! I'M WILLING TO VOLUNTEER TO SIFT THROUGH THE PORTAL INDEFINETLY TO FIND EARRAPE AND THEFT! I AM! I AM!

I'll be sure to nominate you both for audio mods!

At 12/4/15 11:06 PM, NekoMika wrote:

At 12/4/15 09:19 PM, DjAbbic wrote:

Or we could have 3 consecutive popup warnings for unscouted users saying:

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes!

Perhaps on the new project screen, we could put a link with some text like READ THIS ESPECIALLY YOU GEOMETRY DASH USERS!!! And we could do a popup or final confirmation screen on publish saying YES THIS IS MY OWN WORK.

But like you said, lot of these are non-Muricans. I'm not sure what we could do there except maybe Google translate some basic shit into Spanish and a few other languages.

At 12/5/15 08:32 PM, BrenTheMan wrote: ...lot of these are non-Muricans. I'm not sure what we could do there except maybe Google translate some basic shit into Spanish and a few other languages.

How about an animation or art with no actual text/speech? (Something like Tom and Jerry. :P)
But still, I agree that the language is a gigantic wall of problem.