Like i don't try to bait a flame thread, but am i the only one who is sorta tired of this. Like can't we all just get along and stop bombing and be more pacifist cowards that just laugh and enjoy life in general.
The only thing cool is arabic, thats it.
And this vid.
And you thought making this thread would be a good idea ... why?
Let me guess. You're going to assume all Muslims are the extremist kind. If so, that is so ignorant and prejudiced.
Look, I can't stand religious extremists. If you have a beef with religious extremists, so do I. But I have nothing against people practicing their faiths even if I happen not to prescribe to those beliefs, provided they are harming no one.
I am extremely tolerant of the religious who themselves are tolerant. Wear a special hat. Say a special prayer. Do whatever your religion says provided it harms none. I don't have to believe in it to at least respect that some people do.
At 4/14/15 09:25 AM, injexen wrote: That would be called a Utopian society. It kinda of demotivates me knowing that such a society is not realistically achievable.
IDK people probably thought the same thing about black rights in the United States circa Jim Crowe.
OOPS I thought the OP was liberal like me saying we shouldn't discrim, but he's actually talking shit about Islam and watching anime.
At 4/14/15 10:12 AM, Ghoti wrote:
IDK people probably thought the same thing about black rights in the United States circa Jim Crowe.
Point taken, but at the same time racism is still an issue, and the deep South still pushes those laws to a point today. It's not really any different.
At 4/14/15 10:12 AM, NeonSpider wrote: And you thought making this thread would be a good idea ... why?
Let me guess. You're going to assume all Muslims are the extremist kind. If so, that is so ignorant and prejudiced.
Look, I can't stand religious extremists. If you have a beef with religious extremists, so do I. But I have nothing against people practicing their faiths even if I happen not to prescribe to those beliefs, provided they are harming no one.
I am extremely tolerant of the religious who themselves are tolerant. Wear a special hat. Say a special prayer. Do whatever your religion says provided it harms none. I don't have to believe in it to at least respect that some people do.
The problem is that islamic theology according to Sahih al-bukhari book 56 Jihad and Book 64 Military justifies terrorism and glorifies martyrdom. Accordingly for a muslim according to muhammad one of 3 best things for muslims to do is jihad, quran 9:29, surah 9 is likely from 630 AD according to wikipedia according to context, telling to fight against people who don't believe in allah
Thats what sucks... is that the motives lies in it. And that itself just friggin sucks.
At 4/14/15 11:06 AM, Hoodie wrote: WHY CAN'T WE ALL BE MY RELIGION
NO WE SHOULD INSTEAD ALL BE MY RELIGION!! YOUR RELIGION IS STUPID!! (Throws a monkey poop)
MONKEY POOP RELIGION IS THE ONE TRUE RELIGION!! EVERYONE KNOWS THAT!! (Eats a banana)
Of course, the Christian bible advocates similar acts of terrorism, but people ignore that. It's only terrorism when Muslims do it.
Let's read a few:
Exodus 21:20-21English Standard Version (ESV)
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
Zechariah 14:12
"Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth."
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
"23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you."
Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.
Leviticus 20:13 NAB
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.
1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.
Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.
2 Kings 19:35 NAB
That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead.
Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."
Nah. That's all justifiable.
Fuck Islam, though, right?
I can refute that with a simple answer. Christians are not under the law of moses :)
If you've studied christian theology then you'd know. It says so in the new testament. And that stuff with Matthew 5:17-19 refers to jews not christians, just incase someone wanna bring it up :)
You basically quoted stuff from the old testament, even the one from the new referred to the old. The point is ignorance and lack of interpretation, interpretation is everything in terms of practice, even if there's some violent shit in the old. Every religion today can work in a democracy because the old idea that religion should be political is old... except one because that is very central to the islamic religion, to impose political rules on a society because their religion says so, quran 3:110, or "anything that goes against allah's law is invalid" according to bukhari. It was however true that catholic church had huge political power in middle ages, before Martin Luther jumped in and reformed it which weakend it, and we got a bunch of different ideologies etc etc.
At 4/14/15 01:23 PM, Morie1 wrote: I can refute that with a simple answer. Christians are not under the law of moses :)
If you've studied christian theology then you'd know. It says so in the new testament. And that stuff with Matthew 5:17-19 refers to jews not christians, just incase someone wanna bring it up :)
You basically quoted stuff from the old testament, even the one from the new referred to the old. The point is ignorance and lack of interpretation, interpretation is everything in terms of practice, even if there's some violent shit in the old. Every religion today can work in a democracy because the old idea that religion should be political is old... except one because that is very central to the islamic religion, to impose political rules on a society because their religion says so, quran 3:110, or "anything that goes against allah's law is invalid" according to bukhari. It was however true that catholic church had huge political power in middle ages, before Martin Luther jumped in and reformed it which weakend it, and we got a bunch of different ideologies etc etc.
You have refuted nothing! Christians are not just one group of people, just as Muslims are not just one group of people. Different Christian groups and even different Christians within those groups will pick and choose which passages they follow. Besides, you are implying any of that stuff was ever good or just, even if it's not what you follow. It wasn't good and it wasn't just. Essentially murder people for having some other religion. Yeah that's real great. Nice tolerance there .. NOT. Also murdering female rape victims just because they weren't able to scream out is apparently a-okay with you, is it? Or at least you feel that was a-okay in the past, which is almost as bad.
So just as there are dangerous Muslims but there are also dangerous Christians. And just as there are Christians who use some sense and don't take everything literally and don't blindly follow whatever their preacher says, there would be Muslims on the whole spectrum as well.
You are biased into thinking your religion is any different from theirs.
Secondly i am a sceptic.
But either way, if you look at what religious group creates most problems it is muslims. Terrorist groups exist all over it.
What's the worst thing nutty christians do, yell god hates fags at graveyards to dead soldiers, or abortion clinic bombers. Any more than that..., hardly. Its really a minority of nuts that represents christianity not a majority like the islamic religion and what their religious interpretation which is just scary due to motives that is interpreted to be justified in it.
The point is that christianity is all about Jesus mostly, thats the savior of the story, so you dont have to follow primitive laws that deals political about it like the law of moses do. Theocracy is bad, but its mostly islamic ones who has this pushy agenda in their religion. The thing is ignorance is the reason why political correctness exists.
At 4/14/15 01:23 PM, Morie1 wrote: I can refute that with a simple answer. Christians are not under the law of moses :)
If you've studied christian theology then you'd know. It says so in the new testament. And that stuff with Matthew 5:17-19 refers to jews not christians, just incase someone wanna bring it up :)
But the Old Testament is still a part of Christian canon. Whether they're asking Christians or Jews to destroy cities that worship other goes, it does not matter. It's the same god asking.
You basically quoted stuff from the old testament, even the one from the new referred to the old. The point is ignorance and lack of interpretation, interpretation is everything in terms of practice, even if there's some violent shit in the old.
Alright. How do you interpret:
Leviticus 20:13 NAB
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
Every religion today can work in a democracy because the old idea that religion should be political is old... except one because that is very central to the islamic religion, to impose political rules on a society because their religion says so, quran 3:110, or "anything that goes against allah's law is invalid" according to bukhari. It was however true that catholic church had huge political power in middle ages, before Martin Luther jumped in and reformed it which weakend it, and we got a bunch of different ideologies etc etc.
Then why are people still trying to apply religion to law?
Why can't gays marry one another? Don't tell me that the Muslims are responsible for the legal status of gay marriage in the United States.
Why is prostitution illegal? Why was slavery legal for so long?
Also, New Testament:
1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.
Luke 12:47-48 NLT
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."
NIV Bible, Revelation 2:22-23
So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
Matthew
10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
1 Corinthians 2
2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
At 4/14/15 02:00 PM, Morie1 wrote: What's the worst thing nutty christians do, yell god hates fags at graveyards to dead soldiers, or abortion clinic bombers. Any more than that..., hardly.
Murdering gays. Forcing their religion onto nearly everyone. Discriminating against anyone who isn't Christian, but particularly discriminating against Atheists and Muslims. Dictating what businesses can or can't be in their area due to "morals". Preventing people from marrying if it's not a marriage type they approve of. Intentionally interfering with and harassing people at events they disapprove of. Being notorious for being some of the absolute worst tippers on the planet at least according to most wait staff. Charities which refuse service or aid to people unless they accept their religious message. It's been used to defend slavery and racist murders in the past, as well as murdering people for being "witches". Undue influence in government at all levels and instrumental in getting various things banned/etc... due again to "morals".
You're just biased because you're in their camp is all. You say you're a skeptic. I don't buy it. Your arguments are entirely those of a fundamentalist Christian. I am skeptical of your claimed skepticism.
Well i can't defend cherry picking. Those people exist aswell.
Law of moses, easy. Its not in christian practice, christians are not under the law, thats mosaic law.
But homosexuality is however condemned in the new testament, it lies under sexual immorality, basically people who can't enter heaven. Anal sex, oral sex, gays, lust. Basically anything that is biological normal sexually you should avoid, yeah like that will happen :P but thats what the bible says.
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Gays cant marry simply because it lies under sexual immorality, its really simple really.
I have had some clues on making it legal, but it would just sound absurd. Like if the idea is that "Sexual immorality existed to prevent HIV and AIDS and therefor today it shouldn't be followed literally". I really, really doubt priests and theologians would be.. oh yeah that makes sense :P. Likely one suggestion i had, but yeah.
Revelation talks about the rapture on a general sense. Its a pretty weird part of the bible to be honest.
Although i can't refute slavery, that stuff was pretty normal back then. Thankfully we don't believe in stuff like that anymore.
Murdering gays. Forcing their religion onto nearly everyone. Discriminating against anyone who isn't Christian, but particularly discriminating against Atheists and Muslims
You are aware that discrimination against non believers is a big deal in islamic theology. Like i dont give much shit what happens in USA they have weird cultural barrier.
At 4/14/15 02:00 PM, Morie1 wrote: Secondly i am a sceptic.
You might want to see a doctor about that.
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Christianity#Criticism_of_Christians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Christianity#Ethics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christofascism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Inquisition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_capital_punishment#Christianity
At 4/14/15 02:44 PM, Bit wrote:At 4/14/15 02:00 PM, Morie1 wrote: Secondly i am a sceptic.You might want to see a doctor about that.
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Christianity#Criticism_of_Christians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Christianity#Ethics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christofascism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Inquisition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_capital_punishment#Christianity
Way ahead of you buddy.
Nazi ideology was hostile to Christianity and clashed with Christian beliefs in many respects
But either way, umm yeah its true that during the dark ages with catholic church that was the time christianity had huge political influence and was not just religious. Then the belief in reason came, and its thanks to this that we have democracy, although other shitty stuff came like social darwinism, nationalism, Colonialism, etc etc
It wasnt like the waging jihad didnt exist back then, it did. Check out the ottoman empire and stuff like that :)
Ok, this was pretty smart lol, hiding Gospel author Mark in pork, that way it can ship it without muslims checking it. That made me laugh to be honest.
2:55 - 3:45
https://youtu.be/UN-II_jBzzo
At 4/14/15 04:50 PM, YomToxic wrote: Clearly, god was an immature prick with a case of USI who wanted everyone to suck up to him and had no issues with using violence to get his way.
Yeah. I mean it was afterall a time when primitive people lived, and felt justified doing what they did with saying "Well god says so, so then its ok".. You'd think with what we've achieved now that people can use common sense and reason to be against these lunacy. Like theocracy is just plain crazy.
Although i am not anti religious, i am however anti theocratic and think its a shame if people support irrational decisions to overthrow good values like human rights and as a way for a system to develop for the better.
Muslims as a collective, the 'Muslim community,' hate non-Muslims. The 'peaceful Muslims' co-existing with us in the Western nations are just a small fraction of the total Muslim population, they're the minority. The Majority hate us and want to damage us, we can't let that happen.
I fought in Afghanistan and Iraq with the British Army. You pacifist liberal nonces can't say a fucking thing.
At 4/14/15 05:19 PM, Lemonardo wrote: Muslims as a collective, the 'Muslim community,' hate non-Muslims. The 'peaceful Muslims' co-existing with us in the Western nations are just a small fraction of the total Muslim population, they're the minority. The Majority hate us and want to damage us, we can't let that happen.
I fought in Afghanistan and Iraq with the British Army. You pacifist liberal nonces can't say a fucking thing.
I'm not arguing against the existence of large amounts of extremist Muslims. Still, shouldn't a non-extremist Muslim be allowed to practice their religion as long as they're not hurting anyone in doing so? If all someone does as a Muslim is pray several times a day facing Mecca, read the Qur'an, attend religious services, and avoids certain dietary items in their personal life, what harm is that? Why shouldn't they be allowed to do that?
I can say whatever I want. One doesn't require military service to somehow be allowed to have an opinion or not on things of this nature.
Also, I'm not pacifist. I don't believe wars or battles should be fought lightly, however. So I'm not a pacifist but I'm not a warmonger either. We also have to ask what does the most good or at least what does the least harm.
Is extremist Islam a problem? Absolutely it is. How do we deal with it? Honestly I have no idea. But don't let your own experiences in war taint your logic. Certainly not all Muslims are extremists. Do I believe in their religion? No. But I really don't care what someone believes in as long as they're non-harmful people. I would defend someone being a part of a strange cult if he wanted, provided he harmed none other than optionally himself -- not because I would approve of the cult's message, but because one should be judged based on their actions and one should also have maximal freedom provided it doesn't step on the same freedoms of others. One who is non-harmful to others in action should be allowed to believe or do as they wish.
Muslims are actually very peaceful. Just not the extremists. (Is that the right word?)
At 4/14/15 09:07 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote:At 4/14/15 10:23 AM, NeonSpider wrote:I'm saying every single act of brutality is both condoned, encouraged and rewarded by Allah according the Qur'an. You would know this if you have read it.At 4/14/15 10:15 AM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: *ahem*I will presume that's a Qur'an. And?
And no, there is simply no interpretation necessary or misinterpretation possible for passages that call for killing unbelievers. In fact, those verses are paramount to the entire dynamic of the religion. Which one would know if they literally got through 15% of the book.
Perhaps you completely skipped over the parts where I explained not everyone blindly follows everything literally, in any religion? Beliefs and emphasis vary widely. I don't discount that the Qur'an features some nasty stuff, but if you were paying attention to @Bit he showed how the Bible features very similar nasty stuff.
I'm willing to bet you do not view Christians as identical to Muslims, so if sane Christians don't follow the parts that say stuff like murder the rape victim for not screaming, isn't it possible sane Muslims don't follow the parts that say similar messed up stuff?
I don't condone either book. You can take what you want from reading a book though. That's how almost anything can be used to justify almost anything.
At 4/14/15 09:23 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote:At 4/14/15 09:12 PM, NeonSpider wrote:I did, because it made me yawn. If you don't take the Qur'an literally, as it is written and was written in Arabic, you are not a true follower of Muhammad, not an Islamist and not a muslim.
Perhaps you completely skipped over the parts where I explained not everyone blindly follows everything literally, in any religion?
That could be so according to some who consider themselves Muslims but not according to others. Same as how many Christian sects consider themselves "true Christians" and consider every other Christian sect "not actually Christians".
I'm willing to bet you do not view Christians as identical to Muslims, so if sane Christians don't follow the parts that say stuff like murder the rape victim for not screaming, isn't it possible sane Muslims don't follow the parts that say similar messed up stuff?Ho. Lee. Crap. That was the quickest red herring scapegoat of Christianity, a diametrically opposite set of beliefs from Islam, I have ever seen. My need to laugh is countered by my need to cry in the strangest gridlock of emotions.
Are you being intentionally obtuse? No, really, are you? "Red herring" how? Scapegoat? Nope. It's in the Bible. @Bit even linked the exact passages for you. Not a scapegoat. Also not "diametrically opposite set of beliefs". They are both Abrahamic religions and thus share at least some material.
You can read, right? The title says "Islam", okay? I-S-L-A-M. Say it with me, Islam Islam Islam.
Islam (/ˈɪslɑːm/;Arabic: الإسلام, al-ʾIslām
Again, are you being intentionally obtuse? You do know how comparisons work, right? Com-par-i-son. Say it with me now. And in a religion thread, it is perfectly reasonable to make comparisons.
I don't condone either book. You can take what you want from reading a book though. That's how almost anything can be used to justify almost anything.Harry Potter inspired 9/11
If that's your attempt at humor, you failed hard.
Also, please tell me what this says below:
A durr-hurr-hurr ... no comparisons to anything can be made. Let's a derp derp herp a hurrr. (Your "logic")
