in the united states college debt has surpassed credit card debt and is now only below home mortgage debt. The debt for student loans is 1.2 trillion dollars. 85% of college students return home after graduation. Is it worth it?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/heres-exactly-how-many-college-graduates-live-back-at-home/273529/
http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/14/pf/boomerang_kids_move_home/

College is definitely worth it if you take the proper steps beforehand. Don't just jump into a field. Research the available career opportunities you'll be presented with as you begin your career. Don't wait for college; get a head start on your studies before you make any decisions. Make sure that your field of choice is actually what you want to do.

Be smart.

Obtain currency.

Get scholarship.

Laugh at the debt of lesser men.

College isn't really that important but if you don't have some sort of higher level education you won't stand out from the crowd when it comes to finding a job.

If it is relevant to your future job, then it may worth it.
If it is not relevant to your future job (or if college degree is not required) or if you are unsure of which type of career to choose in the future, or if it is hard to find jobs that are relevant to your degree, then it may not worth it.
If you know you are not going to pursue a career related to your field of study, but you nevertheless decided to do the degree just because you enjoy it, then it is most likely not worth the money. You can check and see what books other universities are using and learn the materials yourself, which is a far cheaper alternative.

No?

At 4/2/15 03:14 PM, dem0lecule wrote: There are 4 ways to get money for college:

- Loans
- Scholarship
- Money from someone else
- Work your arse off and get your own money.

You don't need loans to go to college. Just tighten your belly and save some money, then you will be able to do it like everyone else.

...and just how do you intend to pay for your own room and board, your food, your bills, college, if you can't get a job that pays a living wage without a degree..... and are you working full or part time so you can still survive and go to class full time?

....oh wait you cant.... unless of course you go to college for one semester.... then wait two years and save money to take another semester.

by the time you finish college you will be retired.

At 4/2/15 03:27 PM, dem0lecule wrote: Many of them doesn't even need you to have an address in order to work. If you were homeless, use community centre and/or shelter as place.

....being homeless to avoid having room and board expenses = LOL

At 4/2/15 03:40 PM, dem0lecule wrote: I'm afraid you don't understand my point. The reason I said it is because many of those who were poor and homeless often thought they have no chance to go to college. Just an advice, and proof since you said going to college wasn't possible if you're poor (or appeared so in your previous reply).

No... I'm afraid you are pulling shit out of your ass.
The OP is talking about getting a student loan to pay for college.

Who said anything about being homeless?

How much do you think college tuition costs for one semester?

Do you really think you will be able to pay for college on top of living expenses on wages earned without a degree?

Also.... if it was so easy to make money by slipping into entrepreneurial trades to pay for college..... why go to college at all?

You go to college to get on top of the bubble.... if you already have a way on top of the bubble why go back??

You make no sense.

At 4/2/15 03:40 PM, dem0lecule wrote: I'm afraid you don't understand my point. The reason I said it is because many of those who were poor and homeless often thought they have no chance to go to college. Just an advice, and proof since you said going to college wasn't possible if you're poor (or appeared so in your previous reply).

Have you been to college (as in university, not just community college)?

Unless you know exactly what you want to take for exactly what you want to do and know you will be able to get that exact thing with the college thing, then no.

In order to become something more than a middle class excrement digger, you might want to go to this establishment, sure you could amass yourself a huge fortune of 6 digits, but it will be hard and that'll be about all you get

No. You'll never become an investment banker with a degree in f*cking gender studies, mate.

Absolutely not.

I came here just to make a thread about this actually. Specifically, for art. DO NOT MAJOR IN ART.

You'll hear it from non-art people, but the art schools and the small handful of people you see doing anything in the art field will make it sound like it's possible and there's a lot of work to go around. They are lying or their perspective is skewed because they work around the other people who've succeeded.

They'll tell you you have to work really hard and try to get better and better, and then one day it'll pay off, but that's not true. It does NOT pay off unless you're world-class, and only then if you're part of the social scene that's looking for new talent. Someone's nephew, cousin, girlfriend, etc. will always beat you out of a job, regardless of skill level, and if you're looking to get into art for entertainment (making cartoons, movies, etc) just forget about it. There is MORE to that than there appears to be, and it's not pretty. The "cool bunch of guys" behind all your favorite shows are the slimiest most horrible people you'll ever meet. I had the displeasure of being tangentially involved with some of them, and I can tell you that the things that go on behind the scenes, and the ways those people are who seem like they'd be so cool and fun to work with, it's NO GOOD. You might be the kind of person who could stand it, but expect to be literally ruining peoples lives, using your art to drive innocent people crazy because the people paying for your show want them kept quiet.

You're not supposed to know about that kind of stuff, but it's a large component of what goes down on EVERY show you see on TV, and the majority of the prominent things you see online. If you don't believe it, you're better off. Enjoy the show. But there's more to it, and it's an absolute nightmare. There is no one working in the industry who's not a sadistic and hedonistic antagonist. They are horrible people who do horrible things, and dress them up to look nice to you, the audience, while they terrorize people you've never heard of.

Anyone who tries to speak out on it (like, tell anyone) gets diagnosed as literally insane, and it's been this way for a very long time. There's a whole hidden world behind that screen that you don't see, and it is ugly. Absolutely ugly.

And that's what runs the art world, on a pro level, where you'd be getting a regular paycheck. It's like the worst of Anonymous (the pet killing, privacy invading, and mass-stalking part) with unlimited financial resources and total immunity. They do horrible things to people in secret, and make jokes about it that the audience doesn't get, that seem like jokes about other things, but it's all to push the buttons of the people they've chosen to victimize. That's the entertainment industry.

You should know this before you go into debt for thousands of dollars trying to get "good enough" to break in. You don't want in, and nothing they teach you in that degree program is going to help you anyway.

I wish I would have skipped college completely, stuck with a retail job and worked my way up to management or something. I'd be living a much better life right now. As it is, I tried to stick with the art, and I regret it. It's the most tedious, time-consuming, and overall least rewarding hobby a person can have, and there's nowhere worth going that it can take you professionally.

The set of every movie, commercial, etc. you see is a porn movie that may or may not have made it to tape. That's what you're looking at. All those celebrity marriages are fake, for the cameras. So are their publicized addictions, illnesses, etc. Everything they do is fake. On the other side of that screen, it's a fuckfest. A spiteful one made to torment anyone it can, because that's all that gets them off anymore.

If drawing pictures or whatever keeps you occupied and you like it for now, for yourself, that's great. Keep at it. But don't waste a single moment trying to improve to become a professional, because it's a hopeless and terrible world that's not worth the effort. You're worried about your line weights and shit, while they've got the girl you like bent over your car getting assfucked by two guys who do the carpeting or carry the camera equipment. You're worried about writing just the right line for the girl doing blow in her trailer with the male lead to come out and say like 15 times before she gets it right, and she's just waiting for the sex scene, because that's when the full orgy party starts for the cast and crew. Your trying to make your science fiction as accurate as possible, so that the models can come out and recite it before they go back to getting blown by the other models. So you can sign over your work to the company who's paying for it all, they can change it to shit that doesn't make sense or have anything to do with what you wanted to achieve artistically, you get no pay because you're just ghost-writing for a "writer" who's going to slap his name on what you and like 30 other dudes have come up with, separately, far away from the party, and you'll never see a dime while that guy whose name is on it takes a vacation with his "lovely wife" who's really just some other guy's girlfriend, but now All-Star Writer has offered her a trip to where ever, so they're fucking in fancy hotels over tropical island drugs you can't get here. She's getting her pussy fucked by a line of dudes, laughing about it, and she won't remember any of it. The guy who was dating her is still working on his manuscript, so he can "finally make it".

Don't be any of those people. Just walk away.

I didn't feel like it was worth it. Personally I didn't want to deal with the debt problems. I only lasted a year and I dropped out. Wasn't for me.

At 4/2/15 03:55 PM, dem0lecule wrote:

At 4/2/15 03:44 PM, Raab wrote: No... I'm afraid you are pulling shit out of your ass.
The OP is talking about getting a student loan to pay for college.

Yes. Since when did I go off the subject?

Who said anything about being homeless?

Example.

How much do you think college tuition costs for one semester?

Depend on which college and region. College tuition up here cost a lot in big town, but in rural place they're decent.

Do you really think you will be able to pay for college on top of living expenses on wages earned without a degree?

Evidently many people did. And I did. So your point is invalid.

Also.... if it was so easy to make money by slipping into entrepreneurial trades to pay for college..... why go to college at all?

College is for long term and steady job with solid raise. Labor jobs only offer as much as they listed. You're the bottom feeder if you stick on non-college jobs, and more likely to get laid off when shit hits the fan. Thinking ahead is good for your health and life.

You go to college to get on top of the bubble.... if you already have a way on top of the bubble why go back??

You go to college to get a better life. This society we living in is based on meritocracy. Like it or not, you're in it now. Having a college degree is a device to prove yourself that you're successful in life. In fact it is more beneficial for you in long term than having just a high school diplomat.

Isn't what all of us wanted were success and better future? If you prefer stationary and ordinary jobs, then it's your own choice. My point is still here. Having a college degree will likely lead you to more successes than not having one.

You make no sense.

I like to peel irony off people.

...and as always when some moron replies to every line of a response individually you fail to read them in context with one another and assess the big picture.

We are talking about student loans and if they are a viable way to pay for college.

The answer is yes.

Nothing you have stated thus far is even close to viable.

The reason why the total debt of student loans has increased so much is because it is the most viable way to attend college.

If there was no need for student loans, they wouldn't exist.

...and you are a moron if you think being homeless (or any of the other stupid premises you are dwelling on) are an acceptable option for paying for college.

At 4/2/15 06:41 PM, dem0lecule wrote:

At 4/2/15 05:10 PM, Raab wrote:
If there was no need for student loans, they wouldn't exist.

Like I have said in my first post. There are more than one way to attend to college.

Calling me a moron won't make my points different. After all this is a debate on an Internet forum. Maybe you should go to college to learn the different, just to lower your stubbornness.

Good day.

Yeah i could also rob a bank to pay for tuition.... sell drugs, etc.

Just because you CAN get money for college in other ways does not make them intelligent or advisable.

...and I did go to college, but had to stop attending since I could not afford it without getting student loans, and i refused to go up to my eyeballs in debt when i can make a living just fine without the addition of college tuition to my list of expenses.

At 4/2/15 02:06 PM, mrexcellent2190 wrote: The debt for student loans is 1.2 trillion dollars.

Ouch.

85% of college students return home after graduation.

So what? That's an arbitrary statistic. Try, "15% of college graduates escape their home right after graduation."

Is it worth it?

I think so. I went to college and now I'm going back to get my masters to try and become a professor within the system. I think there's nothing more important than giving people an environment outside the cruel, cruel world, where people care about things like art and poetry. It's an example of how human existence should be.

Also, where do you think all the great scientific advances are made? The best people in their field are often teachers in that field. Colleges house labs to do research as well.

Human existence is shitty without university for people who are born half-sane in this ridiculous society, and you're a fucking idiot if you think otherwise*.

*Opinion

At 4/2/15 07:03 PM, 24901miles wrote: If you have to ask for an answer that question, you probably shouldn't be going to college. There are too many idiots with useless degrees who went to school without understanding what purpose it would serve and they are flooding the labor market

Except that it's their only chance to take a philosophy or sociology class which actually opens up their mind and perspective, and the point of college isn't to get a job, but to learn about different ways that people have thought all throughout time, so that you can make the most of your life, instead of toiling away like a drooling pleb.

making it harder for good degree holders to get their foot in the door at a prospective employer

Heil you, Mr. I have everything figured out. What's a "good degree," hm? Anything with math?

and pushing uneducated workers out of jobs for which they're overqualified.

Doesn't seem likely. Experience is trumping education, all around.

If you aren't going for STEM, and if you aren't absolutely certain of what it is that you want to do with your degree, and need to borrow money in order to attend school: get a job instead.

Fuck that, you shouldn't be "absolutely certain" of anything when you're 18 years old.

It better be or I'll have to drive my Type 1 into the sunset dramatically.

Or just stay at the same job all my life

You should be proud if your biggest problem is being too smart, and if that is currently America (or your country's) biggest problem, then good for it. The solution is to create a better atmosphere for educated people, not pander to our lowest instincts.

At 4/2/15 07:20 PM, 24901miles wrote:

At 4/2/15 06:58 PM, Ghoti wrote: Also, where do you think all the great scientific advances are made? The best people in their field are often teachers in that field. Colleges house labs to do research as well.

An aside to this:

If you want to enter into Science, Computer Science, or any sort of STEM/Research without paying for college you should consider taking the general ASVAB for military enrollment and then use your score to discuss enlisting with a branch of your military which does R&D in-house. You'll have to take a secondary placement exam (I think), but they will send you through any level of school and have work lined up for you on the other side.

I also agree with this.

My Creative Writing teacher was in the Navy. He was a radio technician, and I'm sure they helped him out along the way.

Also, though, in war shit gets dicey. You might get your boots blown off along with your leg.

Also, though, J.D. Salinger fought in WW2, and a lot of great authors went to war. War's morality is so ambiguous to me. I or you can't say it's wrong in public without thinking we're shaming the soldiers. But the truth is that even soldiers have mixed feelings about war, and being soldiers.

I am extra ADD tonight. All I want to know is, is war moral.

It depends on what path in life you want to take.

Some people in this world are content climbing the ranks of an entry-level job, and I say live and let live. But if you want a specialized career, e.g. technology, fine arts, law - you'll most likely want a degree. It WILL pay itself off if you score a good career, and then some. Plus, as they say, if you find something you love doing, then you'll never work a day in your life.

Not that you can't create a lucrative career without a degree, but it's definitely a bigger climb. For one, you'll typically have to make connections in good places, unless you're willing to go the entrepreneur route. However being an entrepreneur also typically requires taking out a lot of loans (to pay down your beginning business expenses), not to mention that your income likely won't be the fixed by-the-hour rate you'd find in a regular job, and will likely fluctuate from month to month based on how well your business is going. You could still end up with a solid income, and as you establish your business you'll have to work less and less, but there is still a chance that it could completely tank. You could take classes on how to run a business before starting one, but that goes back to the whole debate on if college is not worth it.

I guess the tl;dr of this is that it all depends on where you see yourself going in life. There's a pro/con to both sides. My personal choice is to go to college, but that's because I'm entering a technology-heavy field.

At 4/2/15 07:45 PM, 24901miles wrote:

At 4/2/15 07:10 PM, Ghoti wrote: Except that it's their only chance to take a philosophy or sociology class which actually opens up their mind and perspective, and the point of college isn't to get a job, but to learn about different ways that people have thought all throughout time, so that you can make the most of your life, instead of toiling away like a drooling pleb.

I can't in good conscience tell someone to go out and borrow money to master philosophy or literature for four years so that the people in the world around me have interesting discussions. I'm glad you're doing that for me.

Heil you, Mr. I have everything figured out. What's a "good degree," hm? Anything with math?

"Good" + "degree holder" not "good degree" + "holder"

But yes. I consider math literacy to be one of the most important skills a person can have. So much that I would support a politician who wanted to fund free math education for everyone in any jurisdiction.

I have still yet to find a practical application for calculus, and i feel like trig is practically in the same boat unless you are coding physics/gravity engines into games (which some of you here on newgrounds might very well do)

Algebra and geometry should be required, but after that I would hope to see more students learning areas of mathematics that have more practical uses.

Don't go to college unless you are ready to go to college. I've known far too many people who weren't mature enough at the time to take it seriously and wasted a ton of money just to figure out what they wanted to do.

college is worth it, but people go about it the wrong way, taking out loans when there are scholarships, and grants and going to a community college for general studies and switching over to a university which can take HUGE chunks of tuition out lowering the need for loans. and choosing the right degree going for a degree in in philosophy, literature or art is just a waste of time and money seeing as the projections for employment in these subjects are so low, and competitive. go with something thats always in demand and pays well like mechanics, IT, or even a bachelors in LB.

At 4/2/15 07:03 PM, 24901miles wrote: If you aren't going for STEM, and if you aren't absolutely certain of what it is that you want to do with your degree, and need to borrow money in order to attend school: get a job instead.

Science degrees are the useless degrees here. The starting salary for science graduates is the lowest. There are not that many position that requires a through understanding of stochastic modeling for example. In terms of employment opporutunities and bargaining power, there is no real advantage of being a science graduate. Employers don't think being a math wizz is an advantage when it comes to work. (which to a certain extent I agree)

Engineering degree, particulary civil rngineering, pays the most (if you don't count medicine and law).

At 4/2/15 09:01 PM, i-am-ghey wrote: Science degrees are the useless degrees here. The starting salary for science graduates is the lowest. There are not that many position that requires a through understanding of stochastic modeling for example. In terms of employment opporutunities and bargaining power, there is no real advantage of being a science graduate. Employers don't think being a math wizz is an advantage when it comes to work. (which to a certain extent I agree)

Finance sector snaps up physics grads. I know actuarial companies are particularly keen on them. Went into banking with mine.

At 4/2/15 09:15 PM, TheMaster wrote: Finance sector snaps up physics grads. I know actuarial companies are particularly keen on them. Went into banking with mine.

In some pathetic Asian cities, for instance my city, if they want a financial analyst, they hire people with finance degrees, but usually not science degrees.

The are about 10 actuarial positions available and they all require previous experience...

At 4/2/15 09:22 PM, SansNumbers wrote:

At 4/2/15 07:49 PM, Raab wrote: I have still yet to find a practical application for calculus,

Are you fucking serious? It was invented to solve practical, real world situations that don't play nicely with linear equations. Calculus is the study of change, and that's all the universe is doing!

example please

Why does an average human being ever need to know how to calculate velocities and stuff like that? Are you planning a murder