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he aint no aaron alexis, thats for sure

This brings a whole new meaning to "police brutality."

At 12/21/14 09:07 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: So, two wrongs make a right? If others act badly, it's cool if I do the same? Seriously dude. Do you understand how immature and unproductive that sounds?

white people are racist

At 12/21/14 11:10 PM, Musician wrote:

At 12/21/14 01:45 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: You're a tool.

I've offended you, and for that I apologize.

Are fake apologies one of the things you believe you excel at?

Despite your unnecessary hostility towards me, tonight I will pray to G*d that one day, for your own sake, you will be able to cease collecting your own toenails and urine long enough to form an original thought.

And this is why you won't be able to get food when the shit hits the fan.

At 12/21/14 03:36 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 12/21/14 01:45 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: And yeah, you could apologize and admit that your post was poorly thought out, which might mitigate things a little. I don't expect you will though (lol).

Oh the irony. The post was a response to Sadistic Monkey, who's pretty openly racist on this forum. It wasn't a commentary about Conservatives in general.

You responding to musicians text with my name is even better. I bet you didn't even recognize what happened?

At 12/21/14 07:15 AM, Musician wrote: Um... not letting racism pass unchallenged?

If your entire counter-argument consists of "you're a racist", you're not challenging anything or anyone, you're simply insulting. I'm quite sure that Sadistic didn't imply that ALL black people were celebrating the murders, just that there were a bunch of black people on Twitter that were.

At 12/22/14 03:48 PM, AapoJoki wrote:

At 12/21/14 07:15 AM, Musician wrote: Um... not letting racism pass unchallenged?

If your entire counter-argument consists of "you're a racist", ...

Wow, AapoJoki, Musician, even ViolentAJ. It's 2008 all over again.

At 12/22/14 03:48 PM, AapoJoki wrote:

At 12/21/14 07:15 AM, Musician wrote: Um... not letting racism pass unchallenged?

If your entire counter-argument consists of "you're a racist", you're not challenging anything or anyone, you're simply insulting. I'm quite sure that Sadistic didn't imply that ALL black people were celebrating the murders, just that there were a bunch of black people on Twitter that were.

It should be noted that SadisticMonkey has gone on record in this forum as saying that black people are less intelligent than people of other races and more aggressive, so he's an ignorant racist. He probably does believe most/all black people celebrated these tragedies. If you don't believe me, I'll happily provide evidence for my claims. You should also take note, @LazyDrunk.@Musician is right in calling out SadisticMonkey as the racist that he is.

At 12/22/14 07:02 PM, Light wrote: It should be noted that SadisticMonkey has gone on record in this forum as saying that black people are less intelligent than people of other races and more aggressive, so he's an ignorant racist.

Black people literally are less intelligent than other races by all major measures of intelligence (IQ, academic scores etc.) and they commit more violent crime than any other race of people. What planet are you living on where I'm the ignorant one?

You should also take note, @LazyDrunk.@Musician is right in calling out SadisticMonkey as the racist that he is.

Racism is a meaningless word used by easily-offended idiots who would rather argue like a trained-parrot than to actually take the time to explain what they're trying to say.

This thread is drealing worse than the pro-Brown/Garner movement. Keep it together.

Ferguson protesters chanting "pigs in a blanket": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dAthWB_7QA

and they were long before the shooting: http://twitchy.com/2014/09/26/pigs-in-a-blanket-fry-em-like-bacon-its-2-a-m-and-this-is-what-ferguson-agitators-are-doing-photos-vine/

At 12/22/14 07:25 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote: Black people literally are less intelligent than other races by all major measures of intelligence (IQ, academic scores etc.) and they commit more violent crime than any other race of people. What planet are you living on where I'm the ignorant one?

I'll let you in on something; race is a biological myth, a cultural construction. Race various from culture to culture. Here in America we base it on skin color. Skin tone is nothing more than a physical adaptation to the angle of the sunlight. The melanocytes in our skin angle themselves to protect the body from ultraviolet radiation. The closer you are to the poles the lighter you skin tone will be. The closer to the equator you are the darker you skin tone will be. If someone from the equator were to move closer to the pulls, after several generations the descendants will start to show signs of adapting to the new angle and vice versa. It’s no different than the strength of the lungs compared to the altitude you live in.

So no, "race" has nothing to do with any of that.

This sort of action and the response by many in the Garner/Brown group is only serving to hurt their cause.

Wat many groups don't realize is that in order to succeed they must win over the middle. Those who are friendly to the end cause but aren't necessarily very excited about doing the legwork. These people are reluctant for a multitude of reasons. They may not be affected and thus do not realize it is as big a probem. They may not like the methods of the more vocal group. They may not like all of what the vocal group wants. They may just be too lazy. They may also just not want to risk any of what they have for the goal.

This middle group is very fickle. It only takes ONE of these to kill a movement or to stall it dramatically.

The riots were one thing. They were short and most in the middle realized that they were fueled by well justified anger, even if they were misplaced and wrong. However, moving to the realm of killing police officers and then trying to laud it is going to completely kill the movement. Most American have a respect for the police as protectors, even if they do not like interacting with them. So if the middle sees the vocal group vocally supporting actual violence against the police, they will be turned off and the change the vocal group had rioted and screamed so loud for will stall.

At 12/22/14 08:28 PM, LordJaric wrote: I'll let you in on something; race is a biological myth,

Great! So let's stop pretending we are cleaved into different groups and be one as human beings! Right @Light , @Warforger ?

At 12/22/14 08:44 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote:

At 12/22/14 08:28 PM, LordJaric wrote: I'll let you in on something; race is a biological myth,

Great! So let's stop pretending we are cleaved into different groups and be one as human beings! Right @Light , @Warforger ?

We are cleaved into different groups, but not because we are biologically different. As LordJaric said, it's a social construct and people unfortunately and ignorantly attach a lot of significance to the concept of race, which has resulted in many tragedies in the history of this nation, from slavery and segregation to what we deal with in the current day in the form of "subtle racism."

I'd love nothing more than for the concept of race to be abandoned along with other ignorant beliefs, such as phrenology and astrology, but that will take a long time, if it ever happens.

At 12/22/14 08:44 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: Great! So let's stop pretending we are cleaved into different groups and be one as human beings! Right @Light , @Warforger ?

Growing up and living as a black person will probably always be different than growing up and living as a white person no matter how they speak or think or what social class they belong to. There isn't much you can do to change that, you'd have to expel any notion that black people are different in any way i.e. religion, speech, culture, living spaces. The idea that you can be different but equal is idealistic at best. I'm willing to bet that higher crime rates among black people lead officers to have prejudice against them even if it is subconscious and they themselves aren't racist, and then in turn for stuff like this to happen where they assume that since they're black they're more likely to commit crime.

But I do agree that race isn't the only factor in cases like Eric Garner or Trayvon Martin and I think that's too narrow of a focus. When cops catch say a teenager with ecstasy they'll think twice about jailing them if they're an Honor Roll student. I know this personally because I knew a guy in High School who was caught with marijuana in his locker. He himself was a drug dealer and sold it to people. He made excuses that he was just holding it for a friend and the cops didn't believe it for one moment. That was until they pulled up his transcript and saw that he was an A student with multiple AP classes. Then they toned down his punishment and the cops became more sympathetic to him. The incident didn't even appear on his record. I think there is an issue with things like these random killings but it's not just race, it's much more broader than that.

But the militarization of police (and by that poorly, since military officials have pointed out clear failures in training for these cops) and the supporting childish military attitude among Conservatives should be a separate issue in itself.

Well this thread took a suprisingly progressive turn.

At 12/22/14 10:31 PM, Warforger wrote: I'm willing to bet that higher crime rates among black people lead officers to have prejudice against them even if it is subconscious and they themselves aren't racist, and then in turn for stuff like this to happen where they assume that since they're black they're more likely to commit crime.

That's still racism though. Even if you try to rationalize it by saying "people of this skin color, on average, have higher crime rates so I should be more suspicious of them", you're still profiling people based on race. Police officers who do that are racist.

At 12/22/14 08:28 PM, LordJaric wrote: The closer you are to the poles the lighter you skin tone will be. The closer to the equator you are the darker you skin tone will be. If someone from the equator were to move closer to the pulls, after several generations the descendants will start to show signs of adapting to the new angle and vice versa.

Well actually no, if you understood how evolution works, you would know they probably wouldn't change at all. Adaptation works on the basis of selective pressures affecting populations. Individuals are not subject to selective pressures and so do not 'adapt'. Furthermore, even if a population did move from tropical to temperate climates, they still probably wouldn't adapt because there would be no different in fitness between them because having lighter skin won't meaningfully affect their survival and reproduction.

For the love of god, don't lecture me on something when you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

It’s no different than the strength of the lungs compared to the altitude you live in.

Except that skin color is by no means the only biological difference between races and nobody who accepts the biological reality of race would claim that it is.

So no, "race" has nothing to do with any of that.

Funny then that IQ is strongly correlated with race and yet is also highly hereditary. Funny also that the differences in violent crime rate between two socially constructed groups would also be accompanied by a difference in the level of hormone associated with aggressive behavior between said groups.

At 12/22/14 10:32 PM, Musician wrote: That's still racism though. Even if you try to rationalize it by saying "people of this skin color, on average, have higher crime rates so I should be more suspicious of them", you're still profiling people based on race. Police officers who do that are racist.

That doesn't mean it isn't justified. Police officers undoubtedly profile men relative to women, is that sexist? Does that mean they shouldn't do it?

And the idea that blacks commit crime because they're profiled is stupid. If I thought that the police and justice system had it in for me I'd be pretty terrified of committing any crimes. Rather than, you know, deciding to commit MORE crimes than other people.

At 12/22/14 09:09 PM, Light wrote: I'd love nothing more than for the concept of race to be abandoned along with other ignorant beliefs, such as phrenology and astrology, but that will take a long time, if it ever happens.

It's possible to identify someone's self-identified race on the basis of their DNA or their skeleton with >99% accuracy.

That should be impossible if these groups were separated only by skin color and 'social constructs'.

Yep if police profile based on sex that's sexist. Not sure why you have such difficulty grasping this concept Sadistic. Police should make judgements based on observable facts not on their own prejudices with regards to race, sex, religion, whatever.

Also for someone crying so hard about sticking the facts, you sure seem to be aloof of them yourself. Mainstream biological science has rejected the theory of biologically determined race for over half a century. What is your counter evidence? IQ tests aren't particularly indicative of anything, and even if they were disparities could be the result of social-economic differences rather than biological ones. Testosterone, while biological is far from hereditary so that's not a good argument for black people being inherently inferior either.

Your claim that racial differences can be told with 99% accuracy by DNA and skeletal structures is simply untrue. Some studies claim to show this, but attempts at replicating their results always fail.

It must be tough being a full blown racist in the 21st century Sadistic. First science abandons you some seventy years ago. Now public opinion is increasingly abandoning you. A tough situation indeed.

At 12/22/14 08:28 PM, LordJaric wrote: I'll let you in on something; race is a biological myth, a cultural construction.

And skin color divides communities. Try to keep up.

Race various from culture to culture.

For instance: La Raza is a largely accepted race-based organization aimed at improving life for those within that group.

You've got white-guilters and black-can't breathers as well, though the NAACP is the nearest organizationally. Race is a real thing, whether you want to tweak the definition to just skin color, just culture, just ethnicity, or just location. Racism based on location isn't necessarily based on skin color, but the entitlement, uneducated lifestyle, unemployed lifestyle prevalent in dying cities like Detroit.

Here in America we base it on skin color. Skin tone is nothing more than a physical adaptation to the angle of the sunlight.

And breeding. Don't forget breeding. That's a big part in a racist's worldview.

The melanocytes in our skin angle themselves to protect the body from ultraviolet radiation. The closer you are to the poles the lighter you skin tone will be. The closer to the equator you are the darker you skin tone will be. If someone from the equator were to move closer to the pulls, after several generations the descendants will start to show signs of adapting to the new angle and vice versa. It’s no different than the strength of the lungs compared to the altitude you live in.

Accept it denotes history. You don't get black/white/yellow genes by tanning everyday. These genetic markers are a constant reminder (especially to blacks in America) that white people owned black people more often than other whites and asians.

This historical, highly visible racial recognition contributes more than you may be aware of.

Likewise for other racially-fueled fears and hatreds.

So no, "race" has nothing to do with any of that.

Accept it does, you just aren't as aware of it as you'd like to be.

At 12/23/14 02:08 AM, Musician wrote: Yep if police profile based on sex that's sexist. Not sure why you have such difficulty grasping this concept Sadistic. Police should make judgements based on observable facts not on their own prejudices with regards to race, sex, religion, whatever.

Race is observable.

Your argument fails.

It must be tough being a full blown racist in the 21st century Sadistic.

About as satisfying as being a white apologist, too.

Good up the good work, kiddo.

At 12/23/14 02:08 AM, Musician wrote: Yep if police profile based on sex that's sexist. Not sure why you have such difficulty grasping this concept Sadistic. Police should make judgements based on observable facts not on their own prejudices with regards to race, sex, religion, whatever.

That's stupid. Profiling makes sense and america would be a lot less safe without it.

Also for someone crying so hard about sticking the facts, you sure seem to be aloof of them yourself. Mainstream biological science has rejected the theory of biologically determined race for over half a century. What is your counter evidence?

Counter-evidence to what? What studies are you referring to?

IQ tests aren't particularly indicative of anything, and even if they were disparities could be the result of social-economic differences rather than biological ones.

Except for the facts that:

- IQ actually IS indicative of a something. It predicts how well you will go in school and how much money you will make: http://www.mega.nu/ampp/murray_income_iq.pdf, http://www.researchgate.net/publication/222403422_Intelligence_and_educational_achievement as well as most of other socio-economic outcomes (Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein, The Bell Curve).

- Intelligence is hereditary: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qij_wD7_kQ, twin adoption studies etc.)

-Whites of all wealth levels out-perform blacks on IQ tests (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NVog3RMxi6U/U8ZIAvvoz4I/AAAAAAAAAC0/tVmE5pkIcAI/s1600/Race+IQ+Gap+by+Income.PNG - http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/siegle/research/correlation/intelligence.pdf).

- Poor white children perform better of academic tests than rich black kids do: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2999198?uid=3739616&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104497148173

Testosterone, while biological is far from hereditary so that's not a good argument for black people being inherently inferior either.

Musician: "Testosterone...is far from hereditary"

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/819409: "Circulating testosterone...concentrations exhibit substantial heritability in adult men."

Who's disagreeing with science now?

Your claim that racial differences can be told with 99% accuracy by DNA and skeletal structures is simply untrue. Some studies claim to show this, but attempts at replicating their results always fail. It must be tough being a full blown racist in the 21st century Sadistic. First science abandons you some seventy years ago. Now public opinion is increasingly abandoning you. A tough situation indeed.

Look, you're simply being in denial of reality.

Race in biology and anthropology: A study of college texts and professors
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/tea.3660290308/abstract

"Responses to surveys of faculty at Ph.D-granting departments indicate that 67% of biologists accept the concept of biological races in the species Homo sapiens, while only 50% of physical anthropologists do so. Content analysis of college textbooks indicates a significant degree of change over time (1936–1984) in physical anthropology but a lesser degree in biology."

"The idea that race is only skin deep is simply not true, as any experienced forensic anthropologist will affirm. The complete denial of the opposing evidence seems to stem largely from socio-political motivation and not science at all.
Not one introductory textbook of physical anthropology even presents that perspective as a possibility. In a case as flagrant as this, we are not dealing with science but rather with blatant, politically motivated censorship.”

Genetic Structure, Self-Identified Race/Ethnicity, and Confounding in Case-Control Association Studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196372/

"On the other hand, several studies have shown that individuals tend to cluster genetically with others of the same ancestral geographic origins. Prior studies have generally been performed on a relatively small number of individuals and/or markers. A recent study examined 377 autosomal micro-satellite markers in 1,056 individuals from a global sample of 52 populations and found significant evidence of genetic clustering, largely along geographic (continental) lines. We have shown a nearly perfect correspondence between genetic cluster and SIRE [self-reported ethnicity] for major ethnic groups living in the United States, with a discrepancy rate of only 0.14%."

http://archlab.uindy.edu/documents/AAFS2006Vars.pdf

The flipside of serendipity: human genetics rediscovers race
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The%20flipside%20of%20serendipity:%20human%20genetics%20rediscovers%20race.-a0171539427

"In this paper I investigate the recent re-emergence of race in human genetics."

The Whole Side of It—An Interview with Neil Risch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Risch)
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.0010014

"A view widespread among many social scientists, endorsed in official statements by the American Sociological Association and the American Anthropological Association, is that race is not a valid biological concept. But biologists, particularly the population geneticists who study genetic variation, have found that there is a structure in the human population.

Reconstructing the Population Genetic History of the Caribbean
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003925

Significant genetic clustering of racial groups in the Caribbean: http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003925.g001&representation=PNG_L

Rapid Assessment of Genetic Ancestry in Populations of Unknown Origin by Genome-Wide Genotyping of Pooled Samples
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1000866

"In this study, we were able to measure genetic ancestry in populations of mixed ancestry by genotyping pooled, rather than individual, DNA samples. This represents a rapid and inexpensive means for modeling genetic ancestry and thus could facilitate future association or population-genetic studies in populations of unknown ancestry for which whole-genome data do not already exist."

Rapid Assessment of Genetic Ancestry in Populations of Unknown Origin by Genome-Wide Genotyping of Pooled Samples
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1000866

IQ tests indicate an ability to do well on tests, not intelligent. Since passing tests like the SAT is a stepping stone to higher education, and ultimately better job opportunites, it makes sense for it to predict those outcomes. It still doesn't say anything about that person's inherent intelligence. Even if intelligence could be measured and reduced to a single number, that doesn't mean the gap is a result of race.

At 12/23/14 06:51 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: - Intelligence is hereditary: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qij_wD7_kQ, twin adoption studies etc.)

More than likely it is hereditary to some degree, but it's a moot point since intelligence can be influenced by things other than heredity. How do you isolate heredity from social factors?

-Whites of all wealth levels out-perform blacks on IQ tests

And social-economic issues extend beyond wealth.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/819409: "Circulating testosterone...concentrations exhibit substantial heritability in adult men."

Who's disagreeing with science now?

*yawn* testosterone levels are effected by more than hereditary, so this argument runs up against the same kind of wall.

The surveys you cite of biologist opinion are old (most recent being 1984, 30 years ago), and even so the survey is meaningless without knowing the definition of race being used. Even if most biologists did believe in the white-black-asian conception of race that dominates public thought, most biologists don't have the specialization in genetics necessary to have an informed opinion on it anyways.

The first study you link is flawed because it took a sample group, and then fit the members into genetic clusters after taking their genetic information, rather than forming a model and then running a random sample against it as a test. I can't make heads or tails of the second study as it's too heavy on genetics terminology, but I imagine it has the same problem.

So we're having this discussion again, guys? Really? Anyone change their mind since last time?

@SadisticMonkey despite whatever you read from AmRen, we're still a long way off from having anything like the detailed understanding of intelligence (& IQ) you'd need to have a proper scientific discussion about race and intelligence. If we did have the definitive, working understanding of intelligence they claim, we'd also understand a lot more about developmental disorders, certain brain injuries, personality disorders and our education systems would also be much more advanced. But this is a stupid discussion that I have no interest in having with racist white people on ng, so please feel free not to reply.

At 12/21/14 11:10 PM, Musician wrote: Dear LazyDrunk,

I've offended you, and for that I apologize. Despite your unnecessary hostility towards me, tonight I will pray to G*d that one day, for your own sake, you will be able to cease collecting your own toenails and urine long enough to form an original thought.

*shots fired*

At 12/23/14 05:34 PM, Fim wrote: Just passing by to say SadistMonkey is a bigoted, sad angry wankgoblin.

Meh. You watch kids cartoons and cry alot.

...and either way, white people bitching online is about as socially destructive as you'll see out of them. Until the concentration camps. Or something.

....or anthrax, pipe bombs, truck bombs, economy bombs, etc.

I GOT IT. Maybe we should be asking why blacks turn to rioting when (percieved, stoked, amplified) social injustice rears its ugly head?

Any ideas?

I laugh at you poor Americans, people of barbarians with untamed ideas of different races. Oh no why is it happening?! Stupid Americans. We laugh at how your society is poorly advanced socially.