The first official (legal) non-Flash thread in this (newly re-named) forum, woo!

I had to get me a piece of that

What's your favorite (or in your opinion the best) language for developing games?

I like AS3 because it's dead-simple to get something on the screen and moving around.
After AS3 I would say Java because, again, not terribly difficult to get something on the screen. Just this time you need to make the screen first.

They both offer some pretty powerful access to the PC they're on and the internet, which is a big plus. AS3 requires AIR for a lot of that, though.

If you're looking for speed, you can't get much faster than assembly, but good luck.If you really want to keep it low-level, go for C++.

Reppin' Haxe.

Where my boyz @?

Game development is, in my opinion, far too complex to have the efficacy of working in it attributed to a single language. For me it all depends on what type of game is being created and what aspect of said game is being worked on.

For straight-forward 2D or 2.5D games with no networking features I would prefer working with JavaScript/HTML5 because of the ease and simplicity of deployment, which makes up for the faults of JavaScript as language (and there are many of those). ActionScript, as a language, is also applicable because it's damn near identical to JavaScript, but I wouldn't choose it because it is tied to Flash Player. Should the 2D/2.5D game require some fancy shader effects, such as particles, I'd probably choose C#.

If networking were to be included then I would choose Python or C++ for that, depending on how much power/speed is required; many concurrent users performing many actions would definitely necessitate C++ but otherwise Python would probably suffice.

For low-poly 3D games I would probably still stick with JavaScript, depending on the situation, but for anything more complex I'd use C# or C++, the latter of which obviously only for cases where performance and quality are both high priority.

As for specific aspects of game development, rather than it as a whole, such as GUI or AI scripting, I'd go with Python, Ruby or Lua.

In summary, I can't say there is any language that is my favourite to create games with because game development is often a complex beast, and choosing the right tool for the right job is more important than choosing a tool based on preference.

Having said that, it's highly unlikely I would ever use any language other than: C++, C#, Python, Ruby, Lua, or JavaScript.

At 12/17/14 12:04 PM, Diki wrote: Having said that, it's highly unlikely I would ever use any language other than: C++, C#, Python, Ruby, Lua, or JavaScript.

Haxe covers 4/6 of those officially and there's an unofficial lua version. I'm biased since I've never used anything other than flash, and OpenFL is flash. Except for the cookie clicker and fast tunnel games I made in C class, never again.

Game dev forum, nice. Does this mean the forum is moving towards more conceptual game devvy stuff and less of the as2 hittest questions? Still want to sort by language, but I guess that's more complicated than just renaming.

At 12/17/14 12:20 PM, MSGhero wrote: Haxe covers 4/6 of those officially and there's an unofficial lua version.

I don't like Haxe, based on my brief experiences with it, nor do I see the point in learning a language just to have it compiled to languages I already know and have years of experience with.

I mainly use C# to make games and it is my favorite (and first) language. It's relatively simple while still providing a lot of tools to make awesome stuff.
Java is also fine, and netbeans is much more user friendly than visual studio.
I'm not a fan of C++.
Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but the errors are not helpful, and if I need pointers I just use unsafe in C#. No need to have to manage memory everywhere. I did not make much with C++ yet though, only a simple snake and some video trackingish stuff with cuda.
I only made 1 game with AS3, it's nice for small stuff, but I would not want to use it for big projects.
Have not much experience in other languages, so I think that's it.

At 12/17/14 01:07 PM, Diki wrote: I don't like Haxe, based on my brief experiences with it, nor do I see the point in learning a language just to have it compiled to languages I already know and have years of experience with.

At 12/17/14 12:04 PM, Diki wrote: ... JavaScript/HTML5 because of the ease and simplicity of deployment, which makes up for the faults of JavaScript as language (and there are many of those).

A lot of it has to do with this. There are things I don't like in AS3, JavaScript, PHP and Java, but Haxe as a language I really enjoy writing in. The output is probably not as efficient as writing natively, but in my opinion the benefits outweigh that.

At 12/18/14 11:01 AM, Sam wrote: A lot of it has to do with this. There are things I don't like in AS3, JavaScript, PHP and Java, but Haxe as a language I really enjoy writing in. The output is probably not as efficient as writing natively, but in my opinion the benefits outweigh that.

The only language on that list I agree, for my part, is PHP because of how terrible of a language PHP is, but I only ever write PHP when I'm being paid to do it and there is significantly more money to be had writing PHP compared to Haxe, assuming there is any real market for it in the first place; if I'm going to do something only for the sake of being paid I'm definitely going with the largest market. There is also a much larger market for writing Python or Ruby and I would never trade writing those for a C-like that just compiles to them (one of the main reasons I like Python and Ruby so much is that they're not C-likes).

As for AS3 and JavaScript: I've never had any of the problems that Haxe purports to fix, despite me ripping me on them for sometimes being goofy. For me, it's solving a problem that doesn't exist so I've no use for Haxe. In fact, writing Haxe for web applications just makes things needlessly difficult for me: JavaScript is not an object-oriented language, nor does it need to be, and replacing it with one just makes me need to write more code to do simple things (and then trust that the compiled JavaScript isn't a mangled and inefficient mess).

Haxe might be a much better alternative to Java but I would never write a Java application to begin with (I don't like the language and I especially do not like the JVM), so I can't really offer any opinion on that.

Basically, my take on Haxe is: the market for it is too small and I'd rather write the languages that it compiles to.

At 12/18/14 12:51 PM, Diki wrote: I would never write a Java application to begin with (I don't like the language and I especially do not like the JVM)

I'm interested in why you dislike java/JVM, can you explain please?

At 12/18/14 01:16 PM, Etherblood wrote:

At 12/18/14 12:51 PM, Diki wrote: I would never write a Java application to begin with (I don't like the language and I especially do not like the JVM)

I'm interested in why you dislike java/JVM, can you explain please?

I find the language to be ugly and overly verbose for no good reason.

As for the JVM: it's buggy, slow, and, most importantly, very insecure; a very significant portion of backdoor attacks can be directly attributed to the JVM, which is why I always keep it disabled by default and will never (in fact the only Java application I even use is the Flex SDK compiler, and I'd uninstall Java if Flex didn't need it).

At 12/18/14 12:51 PM, Diki wrote: As for AS3 and JavaScript: I've never had any of the problems that Haxe purports to fix, despite me ripping me on them for sometimes being goofy. For me, it's solving a problem that doesn't exist so I've no use for Haxe. In fact, writing Haxe for web applications just makes things needlessly difficult for me: JavaScript is not an object-oriented language, nor does it need to be, and replacing it with one just makes me need to write more code to do simple things (and then trust that the compiled JavaScript isn't a mangled and inefficient mess).

This is an interesting point. I can agree if I were the only one working on an application, to an extent, and I've never used JavaScript in a team, but I feel static typed and (more... defined than JS) OO languages excel when there's more than one programmer.

Haxe might be a much better alternative to Java but I would never write a Java application to begin with (I don't like the language and I especially do not like the JVM), so I can't really offer any opinion on that.

Basically, my take on Haxe is: the market for it is too small and I'd rather write the languages that it compiles to.

From a profit standpoint, I can agree that you're better off knowing PHP or Java rather than just being able to produce something that'll spit it out.

From a hobbyist point of view, I'd hate to have learnt PHP or Java as a first language - in fact, the only reason I know them is because of jobs and university. I find Haxe to be consistent, which in my opinion is one of the most important aspects of a programming language.

I think because it doesn't rely on end users adopting a plugin or runtime and just adapts to what's currently used, it's appealing to smaller companies, start-ups and hobbyist programmers - one code base is so much more appealing than extra resources to develop cross platform systems. Unfortunately because of its age, I can see larger companies being reluctant to adopt it (plus, they probably still have archaic systems in place). The targets are all at different stages of development, too, and still takes a bit of tweaking to get your application consistent across them.

Obviously the crutch here being you're at the mercy of the Haxe backend programmers in terms of performance, but @MSGHero linked me to a cool little article comparing Haxe Flash Player bytecode to that of Flash Pro and AIR.

In my mind, a "universal" language is what it's trying to be. Luckily I really like the language so would choose it over the majority of languages for the platforms it targets if the situation allows it.

At 12/18/14 12:51 PM, Diki wrote: The only language on that list I agree, for my part, is PHP because of how terrible of a language PHP is, but I only ever write PHP when I'm being paid to do it

Someone took a js job and wrote everything in haxe. I guess you could do the same for php so you have static typing and whatnot. Rusty said he got a haxe job recently. Outside of games, I only know of TiVo using haxe for anything significant.

The only non-game stuff I've ever done is java homework, so compiling to python and cpp is magic for me. If I knew and used the languages, I could see myself having a different opinion. Even still, it's probably nice for web dev keeping your client and server side code the same language and maybe sharing code.

At 12/18/14 03:11 PM, MSGhero wrote: I guess you could do the same for php so you have static typing and whatnot.

Static typing is one of the things I was referring to regarding Haxe solving problems that don't exist: I've never found myself needing or wanting static typing in dynamic languages. It makes sense to have it in C/C++ for compiler-time resolutions and all the nonsense that comes with low-level languages, but I don't want it in high-level languages; it just gets in my way.

At 12/18/14 03:11 PM, MSGhero wrote: The only non-game stuff I've ever done is java homework, so compiling to python and cpp is magic for me. If I knew and used the languages, I could see myself having a different opinion.

I can see it being useful for having multiple deployment options to languages that you do not know, but that just doesn't apply to me. Plus, I just absolutely love Python far too much to want to replace it with anything else; if ever I were to have a favourite language it would definitely be Python.

C++ also got a lot simpler and easier to write ever since C++11 was released, that combined with the Boost libraries makes C++ a breeze to write. I'm working on an asynchronous TCP server in C++ that implements the WebSocket protocol (which I will be using for turn-based multiplayer games) and I wouldn't trust Haxe to compile to C++ without fucking up the performance (C++'s efficiency is the only reason I went with it in the first place).

At 12/18/14 03:11 PM, MSGhero wrote: Even still, it's probably nice for web dev keeping your client and server side code the same language and maybe sharing code.

Eh, maybe. I would certainly enjoy writing client-side code in Python, but only because it's Python; not because it's the same language as what my web server is written in. I'd still take JavaScript over Haxe any day of the week; for all its faults, at least with vanilla JavaScript I don't need to fart around with classes and types.

At 12/18/14 01:45 PM, Diki wrote: (in fact the only Java application I even use is the Flex SDK compiler, and I'd uninstall Java if Flex didn't need it).

Aha, that's why you should use haxe. To uninstall jvm and flex.

I still need it and eclipse because I never know when a CS class will pop out the java for an assignment. I installed EMET based on Taylor Swift's recommendation and it blocked java completely by default. I didn't even notice until I had to recompile old as3 code. I'm forever done with as3 though. Even if some of those old projects get revived, too bad.

Just checked: CS intro to ai is in python (finally have to learn it) and CS machine learning is in java hooray. Not sure how far haxe can get me here.

At 12/18/14 10:57 PM, MSGhero wrote: I'm forever done with as3 though. Even if some of those old projects get revived, too bad.

I feel like a relic :(
"Hey, guys, check out this new feature in AIR! .. Guys?"

Lua, i find the syntax understandable and it feels nice

At 12/18/14 11:09 PM, egg82 wrote: I feel like a relic :(
"Hey, guys, check out this new feature in AIR! .. Guys?"

ANUSTART

There are some very strange things being said in this thread..

I am not going to pick a "Best" language, but I will talk about my preferences.

These days I am using Haxe a lot and i'm loving every second of it, been using it in place of AS3, PHP, JS and C++. I've been using Flash for more than 10 years now, so I had a lot of experience with AS2 and AS3 previous to that, as well as some PHP, JS and C# experience in University, then some dabbling in Lua, Ruby, Python, C++, etc.

If I am going to make a 2D game I immediately make a move for Haxe. If I was going to make a 3D game I would probably use C# and Unity to get the job done. They are both very multi-platform focussed, and I really value that. I don't pick Unity for 2D games because I usually find myself fighting with the editor, it's very good but it is not the way I work.

See, it's not really a case of what the BEST language is, best is kind of a moving target. What matters is picking the right tool for the job. Can you get the game done in that language? Does it support the platforms you want to target? Are you productive in it?

For what it's worth, JS is one of my least favorite languages.

At 12/21/14 04:23 AM, bumblebirds wrote: See, it's not really a case of what the BEST language is, best is kind of a moving target. What matters is picking the right tool for the job. Can you get the game done in that language? Does it support the platforms you want to target? Are you productive in it?

I think we can all agree that this is what it comes down to, I was thinking the thread wanted a "if I had to pick one" kind of answer.

For what it's worth, JS is one of my least favorite languages.

Care to elaborate? Least favourite languages in general or specifically related to games design?

At 12/21/14 05:17 AM, Sam wrote: Least favourite languages in general or specifically related to games design?

Well, both. I find It's not too bad if I just want to knock out a little script here and there, but once an app gets fairly large (as games so often do) I find myself missing all the static typing and classes, etc that we get in other languages, you know?

I know some people are really into it these days, and that's cool but it's not for me.

Well, my personal favourite for 2D game development is HTML5/JavaScript because of how easy it's to use. However, Python is a brilliant option in general because of it's flexibility. However, even though C++ isn't as easy to learn, it's your best choice for developing 3D games, and not only because it works well with Unity. ;)

It's probably not the most popular opinion but I like Java the most, because it's probably the language that I know best and like OP said you can really just put stuff out without all that much hassle, whereas C++ or Python you need a lot more to set up, usually with something like OpenGL or stuff like that and it's probably a stupid personal thing but I like having it built into the API for the language I'm using. JavaScript/HTML5 intrigues me but I have little to no experience in it despite how similar it is to Flash, so I guess I'd have to say Java, mainly because of how easy graphics and Sockets are. I never really step into 3D stuff, so that probably has a lot to do with it, but for what I do, Java works well.

I prefer to code everything in assembly language as anything higher seems too simple and easy to me, I know and have vast experience in about a dozen different assebly languages, however I much prefer to code in X86 due to the complex semantics and highly obfuscated code.

I prefer to code in machine code because anything higher seems to easy for me. I also prefer to use enter my code in binary form like a true HaXoR. Those who use hex and octal don't understand that computers don't even understand numbers, only signals guz. Here is my favorite keyboard I use for the job. It works seamlessly.

At 1/4/15 05:57 PM, CzeryWassierSwizier wrote: I prefer to code in machine code because anything higher seems to easy for me.

I'm fond of wiring everything on a custom self-built bread board and writing my code onto punch cards, and I do it while drunk and with my eyes closed because it would be too easy otherwise.

At 1/7/15 11:39 PM, Mr-Shark wrote: I myself am still trapped in the AS2 world, party due to my stubborness to upgrade from Macromedia Flash 8.

FlashDevelop is free and you can use sprite sheets or .swf files containing assets.

Real programmers use butterflies.

I prefer Game Maker Language and a little C++ every now and then.