At 11/13/14 06:41 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

I wanted you to source for me something that proved your claim that welfare recipients were making more then the minimum wage, ...

The Assured Income for the Severely Handicapped (AISH) is the legal name of a "social welfare program" and service offered only in Alberta, Canada, to nearly 46,000 Albertans. Every AISH recipient receives a base monthly payment of C$1,588 plus full benefits as of April 1, 2012. Also, in addition to this monthly payment, a recipient can receive net employment income up to C$800 per month without his/her AISH income being affected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assured_Income_for_the_Severely_Handicapped

So....considering we all know that and agree on that, doesn't that seem like a situation to you where there should be some authority which is making sure those companies stop exploiting the welfare system and other societal safety nets for their own benefit and start taking care of the worker and paying their fair share? If not, then why not?

I believe it is up to the individual worker to make a better employment choice. For the ones with mental retardation that scum bag corps like WallMart are exploiting well they have Government appointed workers and or family and they should be the ones making the call. Boycott can be a powerful motivator for positive change in regards to corporate scumbaggery.

Inflation as it relates to the cost of living. If the dollar has less power and you need to spend more to keep up with basics yet wages are not keeping up with it, we reach a situation where obviously the worker is no longer able to pay for cost of living. If you can't pay for cost of living, you wind up in a never ending trap whereby your opportunities and abilities to lift yourself out of poverty (continued education and training for a better career) slip away because you have to spend all your time just trying to keep your head above water. Even when you DO receive those benefits, the crushing debt you accumulate to do so can also cripple you if by the time you've finished the opportunity isn't there.

Seems to me that a complete overhaul of the monetary system is in order.

At 11/14/14 05:49 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: I believe it is up to the individual worker to make a better employment choice.

Right, because obviously it's so very easy to get those opportunities....

For the ones with mental retardation that scum bag corps like WallMart are exploiting well they have Government appointed workers and or family and they should be the ones making the call.

Not everyone at wal-mart has mental retardation, that is one of the shittiest, most ignorant, and most offensive things I've ever heard. There are plenty of smart folks that work for wal-mart, it was the best option available to them while they try to get something better.

Boycott can be a powerful motivator for positive change in regards to corporate scumbaggery.

No it isn't, because nobody ever boycott in large enough numbers to effect anything. It's like how Black Friday has been moved to Thanksgiving, for every 1 person that refuses to shop, there's 10 that have no problem with it. The one can pat themselves on the back and feel good that they stood up against something they find offensive, but they really didn't do anything to change the mind of the corporation. Dreams are nice.

Seems to me that a complete overhaul of the monetary system is in order.

How would you accomplish that? Times like this I wish @Der-Lowe still hung around the boards more. He was an economist who was excellent at explaining complicated financial stuff in a way that someone like me who only grasps these things in the most basic of ways could understand it.

Edit: Forgot to add in earlier that your article is shaky. Even wikipedia says it has issues and reads more like an editorial or opinion piece vs. being an actual source of factual info. Also it only covers Alberta (one province) and not all of Canada, you're claim related to all of Canada.

At 11/14/14 05:49 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Seems to me that a complete overhaul of the monetary system is in order.

Tell us about the idea you got on how to "overhaul the monetary system" while you were reading Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory.

At 11/14/14 06:43 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 11/14/14 05:49 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: I believe it is up to the individual worker to make a better employment choice.

Right, because obviously it's so very easy to get those opportunities....

Apathy is an individual choice. Wall Mart exploits this characteristic.

For the ones with mental retardation that scum bag corps like WallMart are exploiting well they have Government appointed workers and or family and they should be the ones making the call.

Not everyone at wal-mart has mental retardation, that is one of the shittiest, most ignorant, and most offensive things I've ever heard. There are plenty of smart folks that work for wal-mart, it was the best option available to them while they try to get something better.

I could have worded that better. I meant that for the few not all employees that work for Wall Mart that have some form of retardation.

Boycott can be a powerful motivator for positive change in regards to corporate scumbaggery.

No it isn't, because nobody ever boycott in large enough numbers to effect anything. It's like how Black Friday has been moved to Thanksgiving, for every 1 person that refuses to shop, there's 10 that have no problem with it. The one can pat themselves on the back and feel good that they stood up against something they find offensive, but they really didn't do anything to change the mind of the corporation. Dreams are nice.

Then the scumbag corps win because of individual apathy and ignorance.

Seems to me that a complete overhaul of the monetary system is in order.

How would you accomplish that? Times like this I wish @Der-Lowe still hung around the boards more. He was an economist who was excellent at explaining complicated financial stuff in a way that someone like me who only grasps these things in the most basic of ways could understand it.

We would accomplish this through proper education.

Edit: Forgot to add in earlier that your article is shaky. Even wikipedia says it has issues and reads more like an editorial or opinion piece vs. being an actual source of factual info. Also it only covers Alberta (one province) and not all of Canada, you're claim related to all of Canada.

So in Alberta an AISH ... "Social Welfare" recipient receives $1588 per month base funding plus with the ability to earn a taxable income of up to $800 a month without penalties on top of the base payment.
http://humanservices.alberta.ca/documents/aish-tipsheet-facts.pdf

$1588 + $800 = $2388

Not a bad income for only working part time up to 20hrs per week at the rate of minimum wage plus full benefits.

Alternatively if working full time 40hrs per week on min wage if you can even find a gig that even offers full time hrs then you would be earning only $1600 per month.

I don't see the benefit to getting off Welfare for those collecting a welfare Check in Alberta LOL.

At 11/14/14 07:18 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 11/14/14 05:49 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Seems to me that a complete overhaul of the monetary system is in order.

Tell us about the idea you got on how to "overhaul the monetary system" while you were reading Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory.

Oh I would let that to .... more interested individuals.

At 11/14/14 07:27 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Oh I would let that to .... more interested individuals.

I'm extremely interested.

At 11/14/14 07:32 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 11/14/14 07:27 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Oh I would let that to .... more interested individuals.

I'm extremely interested.

Then I would suggest to you to get working on a ... "Plan of Action" to present to the ones that can create positive change. Hurry though as time is of the essence as we are at ... "Peak Oil".

At 11/14/14 07:34 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Then I would suggest to you to get working on a ... "Plan of Action" to present to the ones that can create positive change. Hurry though as time is of the essence as we are at ... "Peak Oil".

I'll ask again: tell us about your plan to overhaul the monetary system.

At 11/14/14 07:41 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 11/14/14 07:34 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Then I would suggest to you to get working on a ... "Plan of Action" to present to the ones that can create positive change. Hurry though as time is of the essence as we are at ... "Peak Oil".

I'll ask again: tell us about your plan to overhaul the monetary system.

Bitcoin

At 11/14/14 07:50 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Bitcoin

lmao

At 11/14/14 07:51 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 11/14/14 07:50 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Bitcoin

lmao

At a minimum Bitcoin is a true ... "Free Market" decentralized currency.

At 11/14/14 07:53 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: At a minimum Bitcoin is a true ... "Free Market" decentralized currency.

Bitcoin is absolutely not decentralized.

edit: since this is off topic you should just make a thread for it

At 11/14/14 07:56 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 11/14/14 07:53 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: At a minimum Bitcoin is a true ... "Free Market" decentralized currency.

Bitcoin is absolutely not decentralized.

edit: since this is off topic you should just make a thread for it

Perhaps you will and we can debate the facts that Bitcoin is a decentralized currency and why this is a positive factor.

LOL, people want 15 dollars an hour to flip burgers for a living while there's people out there making less than 15 dollars an hour that do hard labor jobs.

At 11/14/14 07:22 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Apathy is an individual choice. Wall Mart exploits this characteristic.

Do you have any concept of what happens in the world outside your own life? Any at all? Because you seem to think everything boils down to easy answers like this that put all the power in the hands of the individual.

I could have worded that better.

Ya think?

I meant that for the few not all employees that work for Wall Mart that have some form of retardation.

Wal-Mart exploits ALL it's employees. That's what huge companies like them do, and the government seems to be happily complicit in that exploitation. Which is why I don't understand when some folks seem to see that as ok and puts it down to "oh, well you can just quit so that makes it ok then".

Then the scumbag corps win because of individual apathy and ignorance.

They win because people don't tend to care about other people.

We would accomplish this through proper education.

I wanted more then a quick sentence, something like a real plan. It's easy to say "we should do this" heck of a lot harder to say "and here's my idea for how".

I don't see the benefit to getting off Welfare for those collecting a welfare Check in Alberta LOL.

Goal post shift was my point. You said "in Canada" which is a much bigger geographic region then Alberta. Alberta is not all of Canada. So I still say you haven't proven your claim.

At 11/14/14 08:35 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 11/14/14 07:22 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Apathy is an individual choice. Wall Mart exploits this characteristic.

Do you have any concept of what happens in the world outside your own life? Any at all? Because you seem to think everything boils down to easy answers like this that put all the power in the hands of the individual.

Oh so people have ... "NO OTHER CHOICE" but to work for WallMart ?

Wal-Mart exploits ALL it's employees. That's what huge companies like them do, and the government seems to be happily complicit in that exploitation. Which is why I don't understand when some folks seem to see that as ok and puts it down to "oh, well you can just quit so that makes it ok then".

Again it's any individuals choice to let themselves be exploited by the likes of WallMart scum.

They win because people don't tend to care about other people.

Yes ignorance. WallMart don't care about people and there employees don't care about other people seems like a good fit to me.

I wanted more then a quick sentence, something like a real plan. It's easy to say "we should do this" heck of a lot harder to say "and here's my idea for how".

It starts with the Children.

I don't see the benefit to getting off Welfare for those collecting a welfare Check in Alberta LOL.

Goal post shift was my point. You said "in Canada" which is a much bigger geographic region then Alberta. Alberta is not all of Canada. So I still say you haven't proven your claim.

All the facts I have presented are indeed facts. Not goal post shifting just talking about WTF I understand and know about FOR A FACT ! other provinces have WELFARE programs however I don't live in other provinces so I cannot comment with 100% facts of reality on that.

At 11/14/14 09:22 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Oh so people have ... "NO OTHER CHOICE" but to work for WallMart ?

In some cases? Yeah. See, not everyone has the ability (in terms of money, or intelligence) to do better. Some people live in poor and depressed areas where the best jobs are at wal-mart or places like it. That's honestly part of the strategy of those companies, build in a poor area, drive the other businesses out, force all the commerce and the job market to come to them. But yes, let's keep insisting that these places and these people don't exist.

Again it's any individuals choice to let themselves be exploited by the likes of WallMart scum.

So....because somebody chooses to do that, even if it's for reasons I already pointed out where the choice may be out of the individual's hands....we should still go ahead as a society and let the practices and things that exploit them to continue? You know that really does defeat the whole purpose of what this country was built right?

It starts with the Children.

Ok, I'm done. Nothing to see here, got it.

All the facts I have presented are indeed facts.

But you didn't prove the claim you started with that in CANADA, and since you used the name of the country the assumption was you meant the whole country, it's more beneficial to be on welfare then work a minimum wage job. You've only proven that to be true in ONE PROVINCE. Then you say "look, that proves what I said!" that is the very DEFINITION of shifting the goal posts.

At 11/14/14 10:46 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 11/14/14 09:22 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Oh so people have ... "NO OTHER CHOICE" but to work for WallMart ?

In some cases? Yeah. See, not everyone has the ability (in terms of money, or intelligence) to do better. Some people live in poor and depressed areas where the best jobs are at wal-mart or places like it. That's honestly part of the strategy of those companies, build in a poor area, drive the other businesses out, force all the commerce and the job market to come to them. But yes, let's keep insisting that these places and these people don't exist.
So....because somebody chooses to do that, even if it's for reasons I already pointed out where the choice may be out of the individual's hands....we should still go ahead as a society and let the practices and things that exploit them to continue? You know that really does defeat the whole purpose of what this country was built right?

I got laid off during the economic downturn in 2009 and I made the choice to no longer continue in my Trade. I picked bottles for 2 years and started my own company. I made 1 to 2 hundred dollars per day on average, made my own hrs, was my own boss and did not have to put up with corporate bull shit. We always have a choice just some of us need more direction than others.

All the facts I have presented are indeed facts.

But you didn't prove the claim you started with that in CANADA, and since you used the name of the country the assumption was you meant the whole country, it's more beneficial to be on welfare then work a minimum wage job. You've only proven that to be true in ONE PROVINCE. Then you say "look, that proves what I said!" that is the very DEFINITION of shifting the goal posts.

Still Welfare is better to be on in Alberta than it is to work for scum bag corporations.

At 11/14/14 11:07 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
I got laid off during the economic downturn in 2009 and I made the choice to no longer continue in my Trade. I picked bottles for 2 years and started my own company. I made 1 to 2 hundred dollars per day on average, made my own hrs, was my own boss and did not have to put up with corporate bull shit. We always have a choice just some of us need more direction than others.

Now that you did that, someone else doesn't have that opportunity in your area (or, at best, it will create a situation where neither of you will do as well, since someone will be stealing your business, cutting down on both of your potential profits). If enough people take whatever enterprise is viable/available/feasible to work on in an area, eventually work will run out, as resources and demand are zero-sum in nature.

Nice job on finding better work, but the very fact that you did that is exactly the reason that another person can't do the same thing (you did no wrong - it's just what happens). Based on that logic alone, eventually people really WILL have no choice but to accept whatever scrapes are available in their area, or live on welfare. So yeah, some people really don't have that kind of control of their situation. Life sucks like that.

At 11/15/14 12:48 AM, Gario wrote:

Nice job on finding better work, but the very fact that you did that is exactly the reason that another person can't do the same thing (you did no wrong - it's just what happens). Based on that logic alone, eventually people really WILL have no choice but to accept whatever scrapes are available in their area, or live on welfare. So yeah, some people really don't have that kind of control of their situation. Life sucks like that.

Collecting Pogey and picking bottles was far more profitable and far less stress than was Welding.

As this is a topic I'm familiar with, I'd like to say: they're not called the working class for nothing.

Raising minimum wage seems like it would raise the price of everything. Companies would know consumers have more cash , so they would want more of it.

At 11/14/14 08:09 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Perhaps you will and we can debate the facts that Bitcoin is a decentralized currency and why this is a positive factor.

Come to think of it how centralized is any other currency? I mean in terms of most currencies their value is based on how they're weighed vs. other currencies. That's not something that's very centralized or controllable. I mean iit can be influenced, like you can try to convince investors to buy a certain amount of a currency but the main one they're usually weighed against is the US dollar. There may be a central bank, but they can only influence the value of currency they don't really control it. Or maybe we could debate this in a separate thread and discuss the minimum wage here.