I was wondering, since I've been struggling lately, how did you guys learn to make music?

Yeah, yeah, "practice makes perfect," but there's only so much you can learn without a proper guide. I'm aware of the tutorials on YouTube, but the good ones are hard to find, and most don't go in depth about the process of making music.

With that being said, how did you guys learn? I've gotten increasingly better, but only from the few tutorials I've watched and things I've tested on my own. Lately, I've been making my music the same way I make all my songs. It's all starting to repeat. I don't know anything new, and it's ruining how I create music. I've been getting writer's block more and more now.

I just want to learn so I can ease my mind. I want to find new creative styles, and learn how to ACTUALLY use FL Studio, but I don't know how.

At 11/5/14 10:26 PM, Exilious wrote: I was wondering, since I've been struggling lately, how did you guys learn to make music?

Yeah, yeah, "practice makes perfect," but there's only so much you can learn without a proper guide. I'm aware of the tutorials on YouTube, but the good ones are hard to find, and most don't go in depth about the process of making music.

With that being said, how did you guys learn? I've gotten increasingly better, but only from the few tutorials I've watched and things I've tested on my own. Lately, I've been making my music the same way I make all my songs. It's all starting to repeat. I don't know anything new, and it's ruining how I create music. I've been getting writer's block more and more now.

I just want to learn so I can ease my mind. I want to find new creative styles, and learn how to ACTUALLY use FL Studio, but I don't know how.

Just learn a tiny bit of theory and learn how to use a DAW (DAW is what FL studio is, basically your music making software). And just start making stuff! I promise you the best thing to do is to just start making stuff. Who cares if it sucks, just MAKE IT. You get to learn from your mistakes, and improve as you make more music. I started out with remixes, so it might help to try that to understand a little bit about composition (having a melody, chords, bass, percussion etc.).

At 11/5/14 10:34 PM, stunkel wrote: Just learn a tiny bit of theory and learn how to use a DAW (DAW is what FL studio is, basically your music making software). And just start making stuff! I promise you the best thing to do is to just start making stuff. Who cares if it sucks, just MAKE IT. You get to learn from your mistakes, and improve as you make more music. I started out with remixes, so it might help to try that to understand a little bit about composition (having a melody, chords, bass, percussion etc.).

I do know some theory, but I'm still trying to understand composition. Maybe I'll get it someday. Thanks for replying!

Trial and error mostly. Along with a healthy dose of experimentation.

Keep doing what you're doing. And make it your goal to make at least one mistake everyday. You'll grow as both a person and an artist.

At 11/5/14 11:07 PM, DSykMusic wrote: Keep doing what you're doing. And make it your goal to make at least one mistake everyday. You'll grow as both a person and an artist.

Instead of thinking of it as making one mistake, treat it as learning something new every day. Give it a positive mentality :)

Never lose hope or passion for music making.

I started with pencil and manuscript paper, long before I started doing anything with GarageBand or any other DAWs. I come from a musical family, and had a musical upbringing. All of that can go to waste or mean nothing, if you don't apply what you've been given, be it a born-gift, schooling, whatever.

No one's perfect; if you can only make 2 measure stubs per project, then hey, you're starting SOMEWHERE.

At 11/5/14 11:00 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: Trial and error mostly. Along with a healthy dose of experimentation.

This.

Listen. Listen to everything you make, listen to everything you hear. Learn to use your ear; it is your most valuable instrument and your most reliable tool as a composer/producer/songwriter. Try to hear the different components of a song... rhythm, bass, melody, harmony, tone, color, mood, timbre, etc.

Seek out a basic understanding of theory concepts- chords, keys/scales, non-chordal tones/passing tones (for melody writing), and cadences are the basic fundamentals of the language. Understanding those things, combined with your ear, is how I learned and it's the way I would recommend. It was a year after I started that I finally took a theory class and learned about what chords really were and how the technical side was, but what was surprising was that my ear had built up a very similar language to western theory instinctually and automatically (noted that I had been doing music-related things for several years before that).

What should happen is eventually your ear will get to a point where you can go and play a chord and feel where you want it to go and then bring it there and keep building on that. Open up your DAW, uncover your piano, pull out your guitar or horn or whatever and just experiment. See what happens. Practice shouldn't be sitting in a room for hours playing scales, it should be PRACTICal- learn how your tool works, experiment, play around. When I first started in LMMS, that's exactly what I did. I noodled around until I figured out what knobs and tabs did what and which things to touch and not touch. :)

All that being said, your ear doesn't just help create music, it also consumes music (and spits it back out). Try to listen to some stuff you wouldn't normally listen to that's related but outside of your typical listening tastes. "You are what you eat" is more like "you write what you listen to".

I've found writer's block is really just a fear of what you write not being as good as you want it to be. I took a class on creative writing, and we'd spend the first few minutes writing anything. It didn't matter what it was, it could be nonsense words, just repeating things over and over again, but it was writing, and that's what mattered. What came out by the end of those warmup sessions was some really great stuff. Try applying this technique. Sit down and just put notes in. It doesn't matter what notes, just put them in. Then put some chords over them. Keep writing, don't look back, just keep going, and eventually things should ease in. Then you can either revise that or go and try to start another thing or create something that is a variation on what you created. I've done this once or twice and found that it works for me.

At 11/6/14 01:55 AM, samulis wrote::

Seek out a basic understanding of theory concepts- chords, keys/scales, non-chordal tones/passing tones (for melody writing), and cadences are the basic fundamentals of the language. Understanding those things, combined with your ear, is how I learned and it's the way I would recommend. It was a year after I started that I finally took a theory class and learned about what chords really were and how the technical side was, but what was surprising was that my ear had built up a very similar language to western theory instinctually and automatically (noted that I had been doing music-related things for several years before that).

What should happen is eventually your ear will get to a point where you can go and play a chord and feel where you want it to go and then bring it there and keep building on that. Open up your DAW, uncover your piano, pull out your guitar or horn or whatever and just experiment. See what happens. Practice shouldn't be sitting in a room for hours playing scales, it should be PRACTICal- learn how your tool works, experiment, play around. When I first started in LMMS, that's exactly what I did. I noodled around until I figured out what knobs and tabs did what and which things to touch and not touch. :)

I've found writer's block is really just a fear of what you write not being as good as you want it to be. I took a class on creative writing, and we'd spend the first few minutes writing anything. It didn't matter what it was, it could be nonsense words, just repeating things over and over again, but it was writing, and that's what mattered. What came out by the end of those warmup sessions was some really great stuff. Try applying this technique. Sit down and just put notes in. It doesn't matter what notes, just put them in. Then put some chords over them. Keep writing, don't look back, just keep going, and eventually things should ease in. Then you can either revise that or go and try to start another thing or create something that is a variation on what you created. I've done this once or twice and found that it works for me.

Wow. Just wow. Thank you so much. All of you. I learned what I should be doing, rather than stressing out. I WILL most definitely take all this to heart when I go back on my DAW. Now I should have more optimistic view when I go on it. I used to get frustrated and would abandon it for weeks. Hopefully, that can change now.

Thanks you guys. I really appreciate it more than you think. :)

To be entirely honest, i watched a few youtube video tutorials, and read some important articles about music composing (Which you should do as well, there's a LOT of good resources out there from professionals).

Other than that i'm self-taught.

Used to take lessons, now self taught.

I'll just reiterate what the others have been saying: just make music! You learn best through experience, after all. Also, get to know your DAW by messing with the many different settings it has to offer. You will find what works for you, and what doesn't.
Experiment constantly, test the waters, change it up! Listen to your music and pay close attention to how it sounds, and listen to the music of others - and don't be afraid to ask questions! :)

Trial and error. I had already had a Grade 8 in piano by that point, which made it much easier to input notes, so inputting notes was no real problem. Finding time signatures and setting speeds was no real problem either.

However, my biggest problem is mixing. And therefore the question "how did you learn?" is not really accurate in my case, but rather, "how are you learning?" -- because I am still learning. Again, it's trial and error, but also, I've had pointers from many NG friends, even on Skype and sorts.

The 'Ask your FL questions here' thread is very, very useful for this sort of trial-and-error learning. I've pretty much considered it my DAW tutor.

Basically, I just watched a few thousand tutorials on YouTube, and got some excellent advice from the forums here on Newgrounds.

At 11/5/14 10:26 PM, Exilious wrote: I was wondering, since I've been struggling lately, how did you guys learn to make music?

Try out all sorts of DAW's and see what fits you. I use Ableton and FL, just demo a little bit of everything. Also mess around with different VST's.

I learned by literally picking peoples' brains, Zachary Quinto style.

Learning is a very slow process. A lot of what Samulis is really good to know, which you've already got a handle on. The other thing is taking it piece by piece. I haven't nearly the amount of experience as what he has, but I've noticed that you learn pieces of what to do and it eventually gives you knowledge that you can work with. Specifically with a DAW. I've played in band in middle school and high school and even took a theory class (which has helped a little bit, just having some of that can be applied to anything you do). But a lot of stuff for what I'm learning is about my DAW (or FL studio).

I started with small steps: how to create an automation clip, mixing is important and cannot be learned over night. Mixing I found is it's own world of problems. I thought it was just composition but mixing takes a lot too. There's stereo balancing (which I'm starting to appreciate) and learning how to manage all of the frequencies and things like that.

But what I'm getting that is there's little things that you learn along the way. Maybe there's a plug-in you have that could add a lot of real depth to your music. Maybe there's something that won't really help, but you learn what they are along the way. Some of it was learning how to use a plug-in on Youtube and then lots of experimenting (I eventually figured out how to make my own synths on Sytrus. That adds a lot of freedom if you can't find a synth you're looking for). Other parts of it was listening to reviews and then going on the internet and searching for information on the topic (like how do you do stereo balancing). Other things are questions to other people (how do you get it to delay like that or make the bass talk). Kind of like what you're doing now.

Especially if you're just starting, it may seem like do these 5 easy steps and you'll sound like a professional. But I'm finding is that it may take a lifetime to learn and it's all about finding the right questions (which is basically life). Just try to find those questions and then try to either solve them by yourself or utilize the internet. So if I were to narrow it down to three steps is look, listen, and experiment.

Just my two-cents. Enjoy

Trial and error mostly. Along with a healthy dose of experimentation

(thanks Purgy) - Read a ton of stuff, watch tons of videos, try almost everything you come across to see if it's better or worse than what you already do (don't be afraid to make up your own mind about stuff, this is part of the process in creating YOUR sound and YOUR style).

Listen. Listen to everything you make, listen to everything you hear. Learn to use your ear;

Oh gosh this. So many people aren't able to do this. What separates your work from something another person has done? Does their piece represent a direction you want to take? If so, steal ideas! Later you'll be able to make them your own way but by stealing ideas you'll learn how they're done, the amout of effort required to finish them and the technique for making your own. Just make sure you don't claim it's "100% original" if you do. :P

What should happen is eventually your ear will get to a point where you can go and play a chord and feel where you want it to go and then bring it there and keep building on that.

(Thanks Sam) - this is the nirvana of the composition world. You hear a sound and in your mind you KNOW where you're going to go next, no question. With time you get to this stage (excluding times when you have writer's block) and it's the most natural way to compose music.

Just keep on flogging at the dead horse and eventually it will zombie-fy and be reborn more awesome than ever before... Or something.

Trial and error here. I'm still trying to figure a lot of stuff out. I tried to find more traditional ways at first (lessons, school...), but it never really worked out for me (plus there aren't a lot of institutions set up where I am for more software-oriented approaches).

One thing that to avoid, which got me stuck a while, is not to hold yourself to working on one piece for too long if you lose inspiration on it. I sometimes get stuck on one piece and can't think of how to progress on it (up to a year at times on one piece), but in retrospect, I probably would have been better just starting a new one and keeping fresh ideas flowing.

I'm going to respond to the main question that was being asked here, "How did you learn?" without getting too funky or wordy in my answer here. Then, I will get to my personal recommendation for you as an artist.

I learned by playing piano when I was a very young kid (I'm not too great at it anymore), then moved into guitar, stopped playing for many years then picked it back up when I reached 8th grade. Practicing piano helps a great deal in getting your ears in tune to the music you are writing and is a good base instrument because the white keys are this magical realm where it is difficult to mess anything up. Key changes (in my opinion) are sort of like drawing a picture with a different color of ink. The picture will be the same, the characters will be in a freeze frame, but the colors will be different.

Play your instrument, and FEEL it. I can't stress this enough. You need to literally feel the vibrations connect with your spirit on a subconscious level. Sure. You can work on ear training exercises, but what if you went deaf? Could you go on to write and play music at that point? Something to think about. (That being said, don't get stuck on learning how to read notation since your ears are a MUCH more valuable tool).

Get a teacher (they will be able to point out mistakes in your technique that you won't be able to pick up on your own), and play an instrument of some kind. When you "graduate", to the point where you can learn on your own and understand your mistakes, and learn from them, your writing will take leaps and bounds.

Best of luck!

At 11/5/14 11:00 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: Trial and error mostly. Along with a healthy dose of experimentation.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oh my god, thank you, all of you! You have no idea how much you helped! I learned some more theory, studied up on scales, and attempted a few more times to make something in my DAW. My god, it worked! I'm finally free of my writers block! I'm in the process of a new song, and hope to have it done by Tuesday!

You guys are absolutely spectacular. Thank you so much for helping me out with this. It means more than you think! ^~^

At 11/5/14 11:00 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: Trial and error mostly. Along with a healthy dose of experimentation.

This guy knows. I have absolutely no understanding of music theory, and only recently have I begun learning (mostly through self instruction) how to play the piano.

But, by learning what sounds sound good together and what sounds don't, you can build a foundation upon which you can develop as a musician.

Another self-taught here and I agree with the most. Keep making your own music!
I've been playing around FL studio for about 3 years before launching Noisysundae. Started from scratch, watched only a few basic tutorials (just enough to make patterns and put 'em in the playlist), and found my favorite VSTs. One thing I've been doing is trying to find new sounds by modifying built-in presets or randomized ones. Anyway, I'm still not good enough at mastering.
I used to play guitar and l always listen to instrumental music so there's only a few problems creating some melodies for me, but they're weird sometimes.
Hope this helps. Cheers.

You can learn a lot of different ways to make music listening to a lot of different genres too.
Go and listen something new once in a while, even if you are not into it, you still can learn from it.

My dad played guitar, he taught me, after about a year I had to teach myself because he'd taught me everything he knew, 5 years later I was unable to find a band, but I like the songs on NG, like dj nate and stuff, so I downloaded FL studio, took what little music theory I knew, and learned to compose music in a DAW.

Also knowing how to play a real instrument and knowing music theory will go a LONG LONG way.

I learned mostly from youtube and fellow musicians after that.

Trancecrafter makes great in depth music productioin tutorials, from making a synth from scratch, to where you want it to sit in the mix. All his tutorials are in FL studio too.

Just wanted to point out that the reasons why you find many music tutorials that fully go through the process of making music, is because there is no definitive answer as to how to make music. If you want to make your own creative style, I'm afraid you'll just have to experiment on your own. What especially has helped me is to listen to some of your favourite songs and try to recreate them. Once you understand how a professional song is built up, you can implement the techniques in your own, original work. It takes some time, but it's really worth it.
I would also advice you to not limit yourself to just youtube. There are a lot of good music tutorials on the web even though they don't have a video to go with it. It might be a much more boring way to do it, but learning music isn't ALWAYS fun, especially if you don't like reading long tutorials :).

At 11/5/14 10:26 PM, Exilious wrote: I was wondering, since I've been struggling lately, how did you guys learn to make music?

Yeah, yeah, "practice makes perfect," but there's only so much you can learn without a proper guide. I'm aware of the tutorials on YouTube, but the good ones are hard to find, and most don't go in depth about the process of making music.

With that being said, how did you guys learn? I've gotten increasingly better, but only from the few tutorials I've watched and things I've tested on my own. Lately, I've been making my music the same way I make all my songs. It's all starting to repeat. I don't know anything new, and it's ruining how I create music. I've been getting writer's block more and more now.

I just want to learn so I can ease my mind. I want to find new creative styles, and learn how to ACTUALLY use FL Studio, but I don't know how.

I started just making tracker music in a old game for the playstation called music for the playstation by jester entertainment, i composed reasonable but instrumentally poor music for atleast 3-4 years cause i didnt have anything else in my house but a sleeping bag a tv and a playstation haha. I could already play a bit keyboard, autodidact.
Later i just started to school myself in classical music, i heavily studied alot of masters and walked around town/biked around nature/sat around the city with a mp3 player filled with classical music for about 2 years straight, in the end i could pretty much whistle whole symphonies from bach, and i still can. I can hear those pieces with every single instrument and detail in my head now. I've always had a musical mind probably because my mother had a radio with classical music playing on her belly when she was pregnant with me. I had music in my head since i was about 10 years old or something thinking of my own soundtracks as i was playing with friends against invisible bad guys. It was only natural to evolve.
Ive found helpful videos to visualise music on yt eventually by stephen malinowski. If you want to understand the architecture of music thats a good place to start. I also fruitlooped alot and started to compose chiptunes because it was fun and easier to concentrate on detail because every little zip or zap will stand out, its microscopic often.

And where i am now, i discovered some fantastic hyper realistic instrument packs to give my music a bit more oomph, I've learned to play some fingerpicking guitar, and because of my treasured main client who suggested to make retro combined with real instrument music for a still under construction game of his i now have managed to perfect that as you can hear in my current album EGEO showcasing it. So thats from zero to hero in how i learned to make music.

Its like brewing a potion, you just have to put in the right ingredients: 1: Time. 2: Patience. 3: Sincerity. 4: Passion. 5: Newgrounds. ;)

I've been at this for 8 years.

I've learned through trial and error, Youtube tutorials, text books, professors and mentors, critiques. You name it, I've tried it. One thing I learned in college that was amazingly helpful was that teachers are just life long learners. You're never done learning. There's always something new to pick up or try out. As long as you can maintain that integrity for wanting to learn more, you WILL learn more. Never stop learning. Everything you learn can be passed along. Share knowledge and seek it out.

Don't be afraid to try something you don't understand. Challenge yourself.

Besides just practicing, I learned theory which helps TREMENDOUSLY. It's amazing just how you can sketch up a melody and immediately know, "okay, so it does from a C major triad to a G7 chord, then to back to the I." It also, in my opinion, helps you get better on your instrument as well. That's how I learned anyways.