Composer for feature horror film

[jrayteam6]

Hey guys,
I have a friend who has a project that i cant get around to doing and would like someone who has some time and ambition on their hands. The film runs about an hour and twenty mins and requires traditional horror symphonic elements with a mix of creepy 80s synth rock. There is no pay but you will receive an IMDB credit and the obvious chance to place a feature film on your resume. Im here on newgrounds because I started out here and would like to return something to the community.

If anyone is interested, please email [e-mail] with a symphonic demo. Horror is complex and intricate so take that into account when choosing a few pieces that demo your sense of orchestration. Your software and sample libraries should be legal and professional. Not asking for ewql or lass, but leave edirol unplugged in this one. Please include your geographic location as well.

Great opportunity here, thanks for your consideration.

Ps, yes, the film is already shot and cut.

[SoundChris]

Hm even i find the project interesting and the genre would be my field - do you really think someone would craft 50-60 minutes for a feature film (even the price of a talented beginner is usually between $ 100 and 150 per completed minute of music for orchestral) just for a imdb entry (which is to be honest worthless)? I dont want to seem like a merc, but your friend is asking for hundreds of hours of work and dont even want to spend any symbolic sum for THAT much work - also you dont take in consideration that all the good sounding equipment he wants to take benefit of (ewql, 8dio, vsl, spitfire and so on) is quite expensive. I find it sad that the work of a composer - and i guess he is / you are expecting HQ work - isnt even worth a crate of beer...

I would recommend you to tell this your friend. I mean - be honest: I assume you are also a composer. Would you really invest that much effort, energy costs and time just for a quite worthless imdb entry? I dont think so :D Also i found it interesting, if your friend plans to achieve earnings with the film?

There are just things that will never change :(

[camoshark]

Even if I farted into a mic for 30 minutes I'd still ask for compensation.

Your friend disgusts me and quite frankly, and he's the reason that we have a hard time finding a living off of our work.

[TheGoatee]

80 minutes for free? I wish this wasn't the first time I heard that. Its stuff like this that makes it hard for composers...makes us look like monkies...

[jrayteam6]

At 10/16/14 05:21 PM, SoundChris wrote: Hm even i find the project interesting and the genre would be my field - do you really think someone would craft 50-60 minutes for a feature film (even the price of a talented beginner is usually between $ 100 and 150 per completed minute of music for orchestral) just for a imdb entry (which is to be honest worthless)? I dont want to seem like a merc, but your friend is asking for hundreds of hours of work and dont even want to spend any symbolic sum for THAT much work - also you dont take in consideration that all the good sounding equipment he wants to take benefit of (ewql, 8dio, vsl, spitfire and so on) is quite expensive. I find it sad that the work of a composer - and i guess he is / you are expecting HQ work - isnt even worth a crate of beer...

I would recommend you to tell this your friend. I mean - be honest: I assume you are also a composer. Would you really invest that much effort, energy costs and time just for a quite worthless imdb entry? I dont think so :D Also i found it interesting, if your friend plans to achieve earnings with the film?

There are just things that will never change :(

I agree with everything you are saying here, and you are right when you say that there are many talented people that cant afford to take a job like this. On the other hand, this is the leap between writing loops and themes for games and tailoring a score against picture.

In my experience, there is no resource to train at this stuff. Sooner or later you get a job doing something small and that turns into being a paid composer. I don't want to be taken as selling snake oil or anything, but these guys have completed several projects already with more to come. I cant speak for the producer or director, but as their budgets grow/things are sold, more people are secured pay.

So yeah, its volunteer work with a degree of networking reward, and free practice.

I realize what it sounds like, but that how its gotta be. Thanks again

[Phyrnna]

At 10/16/14 04:34 PM, jrayteam6 wrote: Hey guys,

Hello! :D

I have a friend

Oh dear this is a good start...

who has a project that i cant get around to doing

Uh huh.... please do tell me more......

and would like someone who has some time and ambition on their hands.

90% of us, yes.

The film runs about an hour and twenty mins and requires traditional horror symphonic elements with a mix of creepy 80s synth rock.

Well that sounds like a sweet project! Sign me u-.....

There is no pay but you will receive an IMDB credit and the obvious chance to place a feature film on your resume.

WAIT WUT?! BURN THAT CONTRACT-THAT-NEVER-EXISTED!!!

Im here on newgrounds because I started out here and would like to return something to the community.

Umm.... I can't say this helps anyone.... lol?

Your software and sample libraries should be legal and professional.

Legal and Professional = EXPENSIVE. Now soundfonts are free, and (variably) legal. Professional.... meh?

Great opportunity here, thanks for your consideration.

Thanks no thanks sorry not sorry.

Ps, yes, the film is already shot and cut.

So... apparently your friend has enough resources to dedicate to pre-production, production, AND post-production of a film, yet can't spare anything except a mention for music, which arguably is VERY important to a film?

Huh.

Seriously.... this is just plain disrespectful to ANY musician, amateur or professional.

[jrayteam6]

At 10/16/14 05:46 PM, TheGoatee wrote: 80 minutes for free? I wish this wasn't the first time I heard that. Its stuff like this that makes it hard for composers...makes us look like monkies...

Wow. If you aren't interested fair enough. There are plenty of student films and fan films asking the same. Sure, not 80 minutes but its HORROR. Its string runs and pizzicato chromatics and loud piano bangs with synth elements.

[Phyrnna]

At 10/16/14 06:07 PM, jrayteam6 wrote:

At 10/16/14 05:46 PM, TheGoatee wrote: 80 minutes for free? I wish this wasn't the first time I heard that. Its stuff like this that makes it hard for composers...makes us look like monkies...

Wow. If you aren't interested fair enough. There are plenty of student films and fan films asking the same. Sure, not 80 minutes but its HORROR. Its string runs and pizzicato chromatics and loud piano bangs with synth elements.

Actually... just read this entry about free music. Or send it to your friend. Or both.

[Phyrnna]

At 10/16/14 06:01 PM, jrayteam6 wrote: I agree with everything you are saying here, and you are right when you say that there are many talented people that cant afford to take a job like this. On the other hand, this is the leap between writing loops and themes for games and tailoring a score against picture.

While a lot of people feel that this is the only way to make that leap, that's just bad business management speaking. You CAN make the leap without having to work for free. In fact it's generally better. Working for free just puts you as the guy-who-is-cheap. Then they expect things of you that you can't feasibly do with a budget of zero while also just plain hurting yourself by it.

In my experience, there is no resource to train at this stuff.

Ask Samulis. There is an entire university dedicated to it. Actually a few. And online resources. And books. And.... well this is the information age.

Sooner or later you get a job doing something small and that turns into being a paid composer.

Yep. Always true. Doesn't have to be free.

but these guys have completed several projects already with more to come. I cant speak for the producer or director, but as their budgets grow/things are sold, more people are secured pay.

Cool. But still... if they've done a few projects they should be well aware of the monetary and nonmonetary costs of production. Those apply to music too.

So yeah, its volunteer work with a degree of networking reward, and free practice.

If you find someone... good. Still bad overall for musicians in general when people practice this and perpetuate it.

I realize what it sounds like, but that how its gotta be.

Nope.

[jrayteam6]

Lol. Guys, guys hold up here. Im not trying to undermine anyones talent. We have all done jobs for free. I cant speak for my friend or their postpro budget allocation. There is no money for a composer.

I am not pming working composers begging them for their time. Im posting in a public forum, looking for a budding composer here. The opp came to me, i am passing on it for a lot of the same reasons you guys are. There is no need to accuse me of being disrespectful or undermining our line of work. Take that up with audiojungle.

Its volunteer work.

[camoshark]

At 10/16/14 06:21 PM, jrayteam6 wrote: Lol. Guys, guys hold up here. Im not trying to undermine anyones talent. We have all done jobs for free.

Yes, but the people asking for free stuff AREN'T ASKING FOR 90 MINUTES WORTH OF PROFESSIONAL-GRADE MUSIC.

I cant speak for my friend or their postpro budget allocation. There is no money for a composer.

So you acknowledge that there IS a budget, but that your friend has determined to not give a single PENNY's worth to someone doing a professional score?

I am not pming working composers begging them for their time. Im posting in a public forum, looking for a budding composer here.

Addendum: you're looking for someone who isn't in the biz and who's gullible to accept to give his time for free.

The opp came to me, i am passing on it for a lot of the same reasons you guys are. There is no need to accuse me of being disrespectful or undermining our line of work. Take that up with audiojungle.

How charitable of you.

We're not accusing you of anything, but surely you can't possibly NOT see how disgusting your friend's business practice is, can you?

Furthermore, you aren't giving any information about the guy, so by doing this you're agreeing to take the flack that your friend will be taking for this.

Its volunteer work.

No, it's charity work, and your friend most assuredly isn't an orphanage.

[The-iMortal]

At 10/16/14 06:07 PM, jrayteam6 wrote:

At 10/16/14 05:46 PM, TheGoatee wrote: 80 minutes for free? I wish this wasn't the first time I heard that. Its stuff like this that makes it hard for composers...makes us look like monkies...

Wow. If you aren't interested fair enough. There are plenty of student films and fan films asking the same. Sure, not 80 minutes but its HORROR. Its string runs and pizzicato chromatics and loud piano bangs with synth elements.

Hey, dude, I know you may feel like you're being shot down, but everyone here has a point. For what you're offering in return (a name on IMDB), what you're asking is, quite honestly, ridiculous.

HalcyonicFalconX's post above (his first post in the thread), though may appear cynical, is spot on.

Even though you may not mean to, your offer is rather disrespectful to the music profession (though, personally, I don't take offense because I couldn't care less, and I know you don't mean to disrespect the profession).

Plus, anyone that COULD write and produce a solid 80 minutes of quality film music would have:

1. Paid copious amounts of money for their resources. You know those cameras, movie production software etc you bought for your film project(s)? Yeah, musicians gotta pay for their resources to produce top notch stuff too.
2. Enough skill and experience to scoff at the idea of working on an 80 minute film score for free.

If some amateur does offer to do this for free, I would be willing to bet that either their output would not be up to your standard, or that after writing 5-10 minutes of the score, they realise how dumb they were to agree to do an 80 minute score for free, crack it and quit the gig (and what's gonna stop them? You're not paying them anything).

I'm afraid that for quality 80 minutes of music, you're going to have to offer something in return :)

[etelik]

At 10/16/14 06:07 PM, jrayteam6 wrote:

At 10/16/14 05:46 PM, TheGoatee wrote: 80 minutes for free? I wish this wasn't the first time I heard that. Its stuff like this that makes it hard for composers...makes us look like monkies...

Wow. If you aren't interested fair enough. There are plenty of student films and fan films asking the same. Sure, not 80 minutes but its HORROR. Its string runs and pizzicato chromatics and loud piano bangs with synth elements.

Well, you sound like you know how to do that, so why don't you do it yourself? It's wasting to much time and energy, right? Nah, better ask some small outside composer to do that, he definitely has time and energy for that and would do that for free.

Also, I think you haven't mentioned a deadline for that yet, would wonder what that would be (weeks or months?)

On a serious note: Custom Music is a luxury good. It's not free like air. It's not as cheap as water. It's music, it's something created in this weird thing in your head, it takes a lot of time to create something like that, and then, as you said, tailor it to the needs a customer has. And I haven't mentioned the amount of time and money spend on getting onto a level where one can say "Oh, yes, you can actually listen to that". Or mixing and mastering. And then 80 minutes of that? For no compensation?

But instead of only ranting about how shitty this "job" is, I offer you a possible solution: Why don't you go around this neat forum and pick pieces you probably want to have in your movie, and then ask the artists if you can feature their tracks? This isn't an absolutely absurd idea, I can give you a good example where that actually worked:
Stanley Kubrick - 2001: A Space Odyssey
A lot of people know that the soundtrack is featuring pieces from Gyorgy Ligeti. But did you know that Kubrick actually used it as a placeholder first, and had another guy who should make a soundtrack for that? But when the pictures were done, and the tailored compositions were there, he didn't liked it, he liked the placeholders. And thus Ligeti became somewhat famous. Fun fact: Ligeti was never asked if his works could be used, and he only got to know years later that his work got popular because of that movie.

This could be an actual solution for your problem, because the chances are friggin high that people will offer their already finished tracks for free.

[SoundChris]

Friend or not - of a friend of mine would have asked me to post a request like this i would have refused. I am sure you also know that it definitely is not true that becoming successful as a composer demands to work for free. If you are pro you also know well that if you sell yourself cheap also your services wont be respected. You were cheap - your music also seems to be. Otherwise it would cost more. I mean - dont tell me you dont know that. There also is a big difference if someone tells you that he is not able to pay much - its funny but in many cases those people in the end paid quite well - more than the usual standard fee for orchestral out there. Nothing is absolutely inacceptable. Its sad that there are really people who are that stupid or desperate that they really believe this would open any doors.

Btw: Getting involved in a feature film isnt THAT hard. So even on the first view it looks interesting: There are so many film makers and there are always the honest ones who respect other artists work. Your friend also kows that very well...

Also concerning all the other aspects i totally agree with HFX

[The-iMortal]

At 10/16/14 06:38 PM, etelik wrote: This could be an actual solution for your problem, because the chances are friggin high that people will offer their already finished tracks for free.

The man has a point. That solution is the best way I can think of to get your score done for free.

Of course, paying an experienced composer to do the job would be a lot easier and more beneficial, achieving a uniform sound, but if your budget can't afford it...

[jrayteam6]

I am just going to do it myself with garageband. You guys are obsolete now anyways.

[SkyeWint]

At 10/16/14 07:08 PM, jrayteam6 wrote: I am just going to do it myself with garageband. You guys are obsolete now anyways.

mv ~/sides.bod /1verse/mwg/sol/earth/orbit

I'll let the unix people laugh at that, and leave this for the people who don't do unix.

>professional score with vsts higher than edirol

>garageband

>we're the obsolete ones

Let the butthurt reign as the kid finds out that his scam is being shot down

[jrayteam6]

At 10/16/14 07:29 PM, SkyeWint wrote:

At 10/16/14 07:08 PM, jrayteam6 wrote: I am just going to do it myself with garageband. You guys are obsolete now anyways.

mv ~/sides.bod /1verse/mwg/sol/earth/orbi

Good god man it was a joke.

[SkyeWint]

At 10/16/14 07:35 PM, jrayteam6 wrote:

At 10/16/14 07:29 PM, SkyeWint wrote:

At 10/16/14 07:08 PM, jrayteam6 wrote: I am just going to do it myself with garageband. You guys are obsolete now anyways.

mv ~/sides.bod /1verse/mwg/sol/earth/orbi

Good god man it was a joke.

That's why I laughed.

[Daru925]

This never gets old
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

[SoundChris]

At 10/16/14 08:03 PM, Daru925 wrote: This never gets old
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

Stil the best!

[Ryuno074]

haha oh wow

[JacobCadmus]

I spent the last six months scoring a horror feature film (I'm slow, shuddup!). Based on labor alone, if I had done it for free, I would have killed myself.

[samulis]

A little late to the party, but here's my answer to everyone who keeps coming here asking for insane amounts of free music.

http://samulis.newgrounds.com/news/post/908805

[PeterSatera]

You know. I looked at the title. and thought it sounded interesting. When I read what you posted though it put me completely off, and anybody who owns these lib's and has an an ounce of self respect won't even take it on. A lot of the comments above are right on, and you may find that the audio artists are delivering a lot of hate. but look at what you are asking...

80mins of "Legal and Professional" expensive libraries "Leave Edirol out of it."

Considering Edirol Orchestra is $385 and GPO which is somewhat the same at $200 for the full orch' and you're suggesting that these aren't good enough, the only thing you can look forward from that is EW orchestra and up. With horror the person no doubt will need something on the lines of Project Sam Symphobia 1 which is $800. You're asking for a competent composer, someone who has spent a lot of hours working to buy these libraries who has invested thousands to give you music using them and months of time for a credit. Can you not understand how insulting that is? How degrading that is? You've just told us that we're not worth anything after buying the software and hardware to push our creativity into a career. And then you suggest for us to feel like we're worth something we should be somewhat grateful to take on a non-paying project after shelling out money and time to buy and learn them?

"Great opportunity here." "There is no money for a composer".

You completely take composers expenses and experience for granted, by saying you have not budgeted for them. I can tell you then, that your production therefore is not professional enough to take sound which in a horror film is more important than the visual (watch any horror film without sound, and it's not scary - at all. ) Due to the fact your calling it a "Feature film", without saying where it's being featured shows that you have little experience and are possibly being overambitious as you don't know where it's going. Or you have neglected to post this information which to anyone who makes any music will want to know where it's going to be shown. You've not said where the final published content would be either. So it's a massive shot in the dark to take on a strangers project. Never mind not knowing who it's produced by, or what they've done in the past, or an example or anything! You friend could be a 10 year old for all we know who is using a camera phone.

You say you're not trying to undermine our work, yet you ask for a semi-pro to step forward and score it for nothing. No pay, months of time.

In my experience, there is no resource to train at this stuff.

Which is why our ability is invaluable, and should be compensated. Your asking for semi-pro hardware and software but a composer with beginner status? Can you not understand the problem? Beginners who need small credits do not buy big libraries.

but its HORROR. Its string runs and pizzicato chromatics and loud piano bangs with synth elements.

Exactly what I'm talking about. You assume that Horror is easy and can be pissed out. So clearly you are neglecting the talent and time which is put in. It's safe to assume you then have little concept of staging and pacing a film audibly and visually if you think that's all it is.

You have one thing to decide. You either want the pro sound and are willing to compensate for our time and talent without insulting us, or you drop the whole 'semi-pro with good libraries' bullshit and go with someone who is just starting off who would want something like this on their reel. You can't have both. Like many others in here we don't work 40 hours a week to buy the libraries to fund our passion, creativity and potential great career so you can come in here and tell us you think we're only worthy of a IMDB credit that's never going to be looked at. EVER.

In the end the credit means-well read instead of composer, "Undervalued used imbecile who depreciated the film scoring trade." Because when you want this for free, and some poor sap does it they destroy themselves and the rest of us who are worth something.

Now excuse me as I go to a small restaurant, tell them that they should prepare me a burger made with prime beef with great presentation but not want to pay them a single cent. But it's cool, I'll give them a review on my blog nobody cares about.

[Phyrnna]

At 10/17/14 07:56 AM, PeterSatera wrote: Now excuse me as I go to a small restaurant, tell them that they should prepare me a burger made with prime beef with great presentation but not want to pay them a single cent. But it's cool, I'll give them a review on my blog nobody cares about.

But oh boy will that single Yelp review from you have every single one of us clamoring to go buy that delicious and simply amazing Prime Beef Burger, especially when we hear that you got it for free! :D

can haz free prime beef cheezburger pl0x? <3 bacon must be included, mandatory. ;D

[LunyAlex]

A burger? More like three months worth of burgers.

Jesus Christ these charity threads are getting more ridiculous by the day.

At the very least be super-super-super-humble about it.

[samulis]

At 10/17/14 08:16 PM, LunyAlex wrote: A burger? More like three months worth of burgers.

Jesus Christ these threads are getting more ridiculous by the day.

Yeah, I swear to god the next one is gunna be "Hey guys, I found a great gig! You get to single-handedly score a TV show my friend is developing. He said he would pay you with a special T-shirt for the show! What a great offer!"

[Phyrnna]

At 10/17/14 08:23 PM, samulis wrote:

At 10/17/14 08:16 PM, LunyAlex wrote: A burger? More like three months worth of burgers.

Jesus Christ these threads are getting more ridiculous by the day.

Yeah, I swear to god the next one is gunna be "Hey guys, I found a great gig! You get to single-handedly score a TV show my friend is developing. He said he would pay you with a special T-shirt for the show! What a great offer!"

"I'm supposed to score this blockbuster film but honestly I'm too lazy. Would someone like to ghostwrite for me for free? I'll make sure your name appears in the movie credits somewhere."

[samulis]

At 10/17/14 08:30 PM, HalcyonicFalconX wrote: "I'm supposed to score this blockbuster film but honestly I'm too lazy. Would someone like to ghostwrite for me for free? I'll make sure your name appears in the movie credits somewhere."

"Yeah, it'll be fun. Your name'll be kinda like an easter egg... we'll hide it somewhere in that list of the 300 visual FX peeps with a tiny caption "Did the Music". How can you not want to be part of this?!?"