New Budget Fighter Jet

[SentForMe]

So apparently there is a new company that has constructed a fighter jet for less than $20 million, which is pretty impressive price-wise compared to their competition.

Here's the thing though, if you're a small country without much cash to spare and you want to upgrade your air force would you rather buy the Textron Airland Scorpion or spend an extra $7 million and buy an F-16? It seems to me that the F-16 is a much more capable and proven aircraft for the money, but I don't know how much it costs to run it vs. this plane. It might actually be a much bigger savings than it appears to be.

So put yourself in the shoes of the head of the defense budget of a developing country like Angola, Morocco, or Vietnam. You have the choice of these two planes and a budget of $500 million to buy aircraft with. What do you do?

[Slacker013]

I'd place my bet on an Apache...

[Phobotech]

I think it's an interesting idea. Especially if a military, foreign or domestic, is interested in filling the flights of a squadron with multiple models of these, that lower cost will catch some eyes.

In my opinion, you get what you pay for. You can't beat Lockheed's technology and research.

What these guys are accomplishing is hooking up proxy military groups with air superiority options...their primary customers won't be speaking english as their first language. What they might do is give our overpriced F-22's and F-35's something to shoot that ain't an ancient-assed MIG.

At 9/8/14 01:22 AM, Slacker013 wrote: I'd place my bet on an Apache...

and flimsier...

[Phobotech]

At 9/8/14 01:32 AM, Phobotech wrote:

At 9/8/14 01:22 AM, Slacker013 wrote: I'd place my bet on an Apache...

and flimsier...

Woah, that was weird...there was another user that posted beneath you that had said "The Chinese build them cheaper." and I thought I was replying to that. Now he's gone.

[Slacker013]

At 9/8/14 01:33 AM, Phobotech wrote:

Woah, that was weird...there was another user that posted beneath you that had said "The Chinese build them cheaper." and I thought I was replying to that. Now he's gone.

I saw him as well, he just vanished... that's stealth!

[SentForMe]

At 9/8/14 01:36 AM, Slacker013 wrote:

At 9/8/14 01:33 AM, Phobotech wrote:

Woah, that was weird...there was another user that posted beneath you that had said "The Chinese build them cheaper." and I thought I was replying to that. Now he's gone.

I saw him as well, he just vanished... that's stealth!

I want him developing my fighter jets! He does make a good point though. I checked the price on some of the Chinese fighter aircraft and they do seem to be price competitive. If they dropped the price on their aircraft by another 20% they could probably flood the market with them and knock out the niche for this plane. I don't think they're really into exporting their fighter jets at the moment though, since it seems like they are only in use in China and Pakistan right now.

[Slacker013]

At 9/8/14 01:41 AM, SentForMe wrote:

At 9/8/14 01:36 AM, Slacker013 wrote:

At 9/8/14 01:33 AM, Phobotech wrote:

Woah, that was weird...there was another user that posted beneath you that had said "The Chinese build them cheaper." and I thought I was replying to that. Now he's gone.

I saw him as well, he just vanished... that's stealth!

I want him developing my fighter jets! He does make a good point though. I checked the price on some of the Chinese fighter aircraft and they do seem to be price competitive. If they dropped the price on their aircraft by another 20% they could probably flood the market with them and knock out the niche for this plane. I don't think they're really into exporting their fighter jets at the moment though, since it seems like they are only in use in China and Pakistan right now.

I'm sure the Russians T-50 will become the equivalent of an AK-47, it doesn't have to be the PAK 5A variant, but it will probably be massed produced by the multiple nations capable of building it. China copies for everyone!

[TucoM]

At 9/8/14 01:33 AM, Phobotech wrote:

At 9/8/14 01:32 AM, Phobotech wrote:

At 9/8/14 01:22 AM, Slacker013 wrote: I'd place my bet on an Apache...

and flimsier...

Woah, that was weird...there was another user that posted beneath you that had said "The Chinese build them cheaper." and I thought I was replying to that. Now he's gone.

I said some semi-derogatory term for Chinese. It got deleted, I imagine.

They do build attack jets more cheaply.

[Prinzy2]

Useless as a fighter jet, all I had to do was look at the wing design. The drag imposed on the wings is way too much to be an effective fighter, not to mention the stress on the wings during a maneuver.

[Phobotech]

At 9/8/14 03:26 AM, Prinzy2 wrote: Useless as a fighter jet, all I had to do was look at the wing design. The drag imposed on the wings is way too much to be an effective fighter, not to mention the stress on the wings during a maneuver.

The straight edge works if it's doing low-speed runs. It's not a useless fighter either, if it can at least intercept older jet aircraft AND DRONES...which, if it's equipped with a gun, would be a feasible utility for the aircraft in a modernized battlefield.

[TucoM]

At 9/8/14 03:36 AM, Phobotech wrote:

At 9/8/14 03:26 AM, Prinzy2 wrote: Useless as a fighter jet, all I had to do was look at the wing design. The drag imposed on the wings is way too much to be an effective fighter, not to mention the stress on the wings during a maneuver.

The straight edge works if it's doing low-speed runs. It's not a useless fighter either, if it can at least intercept older jet aircraft AND DRONES...which, if it's equipped with a gun, would be a feasible utility for the aircraft in a modernized battlefield.

It's mainly for ground attack.

Virtually all dogfights take place at subsonic speeds.

The only fighter that I know of that is capable of supersonic cruising speeds is the F-22.

[Phobotech]

At 9/8/14 03:48 AM, TucoM wrote:
It's mainly for ground attack.

Most ground attack jets have straight-edged wings like that, yeah. I miss shit like the F-14 Tomcat where it could switch between the swept back and the straight-edge in mid-flight. *sigh*...ohhh the 80's.

Virtually all dogfights take place at subsonic speeds.

True, but with the swept back design, supporting your argument that the Scorpion is mainly designed for ground attack, the swept back wings enable evasive maneuvering at higher speeds.

But dig this, will it ever need to get that close these days.

There were Israeli sorties flown entirely by modernized F-15 Eagles or Super Eagles that pretty much won entire dogfights with long range missiles that successfully plucked enemy jets out of the skies. If a cheap-ass composite twin-commercial-engine fighter jet with a decent targeting system and badass missiles successfully carried out a mission to destroy important targets, then who cares if the Scorpion can evade quickly?

Maybe that was the same mistake the designers of the Phantom II came to in thinking the modern dogfight wouldn't need guns anymore, putting way too much faith in missile technology, but those weapon systems have been perfected for decades. Hell, now we're on the brink of getting air-to-air LEGIT laser technology...not so much "pew pew" as it is "concentrated beam of light melting the fuck out of a distant target, boring a fiery hole through them."...you better believe that technology could become condensed to an underbelly mount or even a hardpoint mount.

[TucoM]

At 9/8/14 04:09 AM, Phobotech wrote:

At 9/8/14 03:48 AM, TucoM wrote:

A cheap ground attack aircraft would free up funds for other weapon systems to counter the fighters.

These aircraft are, most likely, for export to poorer nations that cannot afford these high dollar laser systems.

[Slacker013]

At 9/8/14 10:04 PM, TucoM wrote:

At 9/8/14 04:09 AM, Phobotech wrote:

At 9/8/14 03:48 AM, TucoM wrote:

A cheap ground attack aircraft would free up funds for other weapon systems to counter the fighters.

These aircraft are, most likely, for export to poorer nations that cannot afford these high dollar laser systems.

Sure, right after they use up their surplus of cheap F-5 Tigers. Nothing wrong with used, just dirt cheap...

[TucoM]

At 9/8/14 10:43 PM, Slacker013 wrote:

At 9/8/14 10:04 PM, TucoM wrote:

At 9/8/14 04:09 AM, Phobotech wrote:

At 9/8/14 03:48 AM, TucoM wrote:

A cheap ground attack aircraft would free up funds for other weapon systems to counter the fighters.

These aircraft are, most likely, for export to poorer nations that cannot afford these high dollar laser systems.

Sure, right after they use up their surplus of cheap F-5 Tigers. Nothing wrong with used, just dirt cheap...

They used to use F-5s in aggressor squadrons in the US......maybe they still do.

They're very maneuverable.

[Slacker013]

At 9/8/14 11:51 PM, TucoM wrote:

They used to use F-5s in aggressor squadrons in the US......maybe they still do.

They're very maneuverable.

The Air Force no longer uses them, but I know Naval Reserved Squadrons like the VFC-111 Sundowners still use them.

[TucoM]

At 9/9/14 12:17 AM, Slacker013 wrote:

At 9/8/14 11:51 PM, TucoM wrote:

They used to use F-5s in aggressor squadrons in the US......maybe they still do.

They're very maneuverable.

The Air Force no longer uses them, but I know Naval Reserved Squadrons like the VFC-111 Sundowners still use them.

The're selling old T-38s as warbirds and sport jets these days.

[SentForMe]

At 9/8/14 10:43 PM, Slacker013 wrote:

At 9/8/14 10:04 PM, TucoM wrote:

At 9/8/14 04:09 AM, Phobotech wrote:

At 9/8/14 03:48 AM, TucoM wrote:

A cheap ground attack aircraft would free up funds for other weapon systems to counter the fighters.

These aircraft are, most likely, for export to poorer nations that cannot afford these high dollar laser systems.

Sure, right after they use up their surplus of cheap F-5 Tigers. Nothing wrong with used, just dirt cheap...

Those F-5's sure look cheap if you can get one. According to the wiki they are only slightly over $2 million new. I imagine it costs more than that to train a pilot these days. Good luck getting parts though.

[Boomstick]

I feel the need

to love

[Phobotech]

At 9/9/14 09:19 PM, SentForMe wrote:
Those F-5's sure look cheap if you can get one. According to the wiki they are only slightly over $2 million new. I imagine it costs more than that to train a pilot these days. Good luck getting parts though.

It really comes down to maintenance which could make or break the Scorpion jet deal. Is it a matter of state-of-the-art technology needing frequent repairs and tune-ups, vs one of two scenarios...either the Scorpion is built cheap and rugged so repairs are infrequent, or it's built so cheaply that it's constantly breaking down, which for the amount of money gone to upkeep, you may as well had bought an F-16 in the first place.

I dunno man...you get what you pay for.

[SentForMe]

The video made it seem like they already have a buyer. Of course any deal can fall through, but it would be interesting to know what country or organization is willing to take the plunge on being the first to try out this aircraft.

[TucoM]

At 9/9/14 09:19 PM, SentForMe wrote: Those F-5's sure look cheap if you can get one. According to the wiki they are only slightly over $2 million new. I imagine it costs more than that to train a pilot these days. Good luck getting parts though.

I'm sure Northrop will be happy to start manufacturing parts.....if they haven't quit, that is.

I think the GE J85 is still in production.

These 3rd world countries only need them to bomb insurgents.