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At 6/9/04 03:59 PM, F-13_TrashLock wrote:At 6/9/04 03:58 PM, SteveZarebski wrote: I hate people who copy other people's site ideas NG will always be the number on flash site for me Tom and I love being a part of itStop sucking up :P
What the hell's your problem? If people want to declare their insane love for Newgrounds, gee, this MIGHT be the most appropriate place to do it. You seem fairly bitter and jealous...
Now this is quite funny!
I don't why, but everytime I think about something of a project I'd like to start, and th efollowing day of having a thought, I visit newgrounds, and I find the topic covered in the BBS!
No shit, yesterday I was in bed, thinking that I wanted to do a flashportal just like newgrounds one, but starting little by little, with like 1GB webspace and stuff...
That is because I am quite a fan of newgrounds for a long time, ironically I came here through a flash hosted on albinoblacksheep!
So you see, you have no need in arguing about that matter, Tom, but quite good you reminded us of the fact only NG has "the" potral. (as if we didn't know ;) )
But back to my portal idea, the setting is like this:
This is not meant as selfpromotion!
I am the vocalist of a band called "Project: Agent Orange", and at the same time I am the webmaster of our site. Now, since my Co-webmaster has left the ship, starting his own site, i have all the work on our site, maintaining and stuff, even it being a really really small site, and I like it that way...
But still, our other Bandmembers who know shit about HTML or Internet or publishing, always have something to rant about the page. Now that I have tried to make the page in PHP for better showcasing our music, they say it doesn't look any professional! (I used PHPNuke, cause I am trying to learn Php and work with it at the same time, sorry for not being coding myself...)
So I decided to do something for my needs (which are Flash and Music and maybe philosophical stuff ^-^), and revert the site to html again, and then start some "portal" similar to this very holy NG Portal one... mayeb not automated, maybe without voting ability...
I will NEVER expect it to get 1/1000 of the users and artists here, and I will only do this as a part-time hobby thingy, for showcasing my and somebodies else hard work (in flash).
Actaually I WAS from the VERY beginning thinking of crediting NG for hosting the creativity in the net, and never thought of spending less time on NG. Now please let me mention some other fact: Since I live in Germany, and I am a portuguese guy, I don´t think it would happen that I would try to take the flash from your site to showcase it on mine, although I would like some feature like Rss-feeding ones Favourite List...
I would more like to showcase work from people around my habitat, just for fun and not for profit (or if, only to host the site).
I find it pretty lame for such a feckin big site like your being ranting about some small sites who dont even get a atom of the style you inherit... NG is a wonderful place to be user, know one thing: Since I am a NG Member I don´t even watch TV anymore! Serious on that. So stop having such heavy thoughts about this, you defined "Flash Portal" as a term noone mistakes nowadays!
Also I don´t remember you crediting the developers of PHP, nor Flash, still you use them as the common tools they are. OK, NG is for free, but try to understand what I mean plz.
Be happy about it, and proud of your work, at least we are.
And stop being afraid of someone copying something off that has become COMMON nowadays in the net. And YOU created the very
first one. Like God did with Adam!
At 6/9/04 04:48 PM, smoshdotcom wrote: I also wanted to mention that you said "and now other webmasters simply copy the html code, paste it into their own page, and edit the values to submit to their database instead of ours." which is TOTALLY NOT TRUE. Correct me if I am wrong, but there is NO way to steal the code and just change the values to submit to another database.
My site has portal and it is 95% influenced by Newgrounds and I un care! Like if someone says to me, "hey newgrounds has a portal and you do too copycat (which some kids at school sometimes say)", Im not gonna fuck with them. Screw them. First amendment! Now that was for the people who flame (do they even use that word anymore?) me. Newgrounds is seriously my favorite website. I love Tom and i appreciate all the hard work hes put on the site. The reason i said i dont care is because I know its newgrounds and I'm just using their idea because i like it. But i hate those other sites like retrogade and smosh and a few others which have a layout EXACTLY like newgrounds. Go check out my site, my forums, my portal. It not even REMOTELY close to newgrounds!
At 6/9/04 01:21 PM, TomFulp wrote:
your such a liar tom, everyone knows the Lock Legion portal was first
Tom has every right to be pissed because after being the best for so long it's sprouting new competition but when I look at those other sites It doesn't matter if they copy or whatever because they will never have the cool charm and attractions NG does! Ng is a very charming place and so is the portal and those sites will never ever compare. Plus there will always be diehard NG users that would never even consider going there.
I totally agree with you. It's bullshit that they don't come up with their own style, how can a site fuction properly if it's just a copy.
I think there are two issues mentioned here:
First there is the "ripping off" of the portal concept, and its very own "democratic" system how flashs are judged and the automated way they are submitted.
Then we have the plain "Copy and paste" of html, java or whatever-code.
As far as I think (which is from here to the freezer), the first issue is something quite argueable when you host a very small site and develop some concept that later on gets ripped off. This is, however, not the situation with newgrounds, i think one can agree with me here. I mean, how many of the people using a guestbook on their sites know who invented and developed this feature first?
The very idea remains to the owner and he is only credited by his own knowledge of his work.
The second issue is quite a bit different:
Plain copyiing is a illegal act violating ones copyrights, and I condemn it.
My problem with Toms statement is only that he is more affected by the first one than by the second.
Still he has the right to be affected so much by it, I only want to say that your arguments are a bit hollow.
And maybe people ranting from now on should point out about whcih issue they are ranting about, just a thought. It would clear some misunderstandings.
And... uum... NG RULZ! ...
At 6/9/04 01:21 PM, TomFulp wrote: Ok, I feel the need for a history lesson right now. In general I keep my cool about sites that copy off of Newgrounds, but I realized today that kids don't even know who is copying who. It seems plenty of users think that a "Flash Portal" is a common concept, all Flash Portals inherently look alike, and there is no way around it.
Wow, I never realized how much I took NG for granted. I'm glad that I can say I've supported NG since 2001, and will continue to do so untill I'm a bum with no computer acess. Here's to 3 years with Newgrounds, and many more to come!
Newgrounds costs a TON of money to host every month. And unless one of those sites are taking away so many visitors that it puts the future of newgrounds at risk, I doubt Tom would be willing and/or able to spend money on lawyers and courst fees, not to mention the time it would take away from development.
At 6/9/04 01:28 PM, -snare- wrote
the flash portal is also copyrighted, so you may possibly be allowed to sue,
that's correct. after all, it IS your intellectual property.
All these copycats these days are a bunch of fucking forgeiners who don't know any etiquette. And yeah I can say that, I'm a forgeiner myself. Well I have forgein blood.
At 6/9/04 06:37 PM, LikWide_PsyCh0Path wrote: wait a minute, he does have your logo there, i guess that gives you some credit?!
I also have a credit link on every portal page.
I use to submit my flash to other portals too, then I realized. Whats the point? They are small communities with, well, nothing. I will get nowhere in life except become more known in that small community. Thats not what I want at all. I simply want one portal, the biggest, the best, the most known, to submit MY work so people can either admire or hate it. Thats the concept I love till this day. I was thinking about making my own portal, but after reading that post lost interest, I'll keep with NewGrounds until it ends one day.
What I like the most though, is how you guys haven't given up on NewGrounds all this time. Some people simply close it one day, and say they have had enough. No, NewGrounds will live for a long-long time. Since SO MUCH time and effort was spent into this website, it has came out to be the best flash website, I've ever known, and in MY OWN opinion, the best flash website in the world today. Thanks for all your hard work!
I never knew ppl copied newgrounds??? Wait did they only get html code and edit that? Or did they get the "php" codings and so oN?
I was reading this on the frontpage, and just because of Tom's wording, I could tell he was frustrated... the least the copycats could do is put a link to Newgrounds, or maybe even go as far as to say "Inspired by Newgrounds.com" somewhere on the page... either way Tom, don't get TOO too pissed, they may steal some of your more retarded, gullible users, but me and plenty of others are here for good!
On that note, I'll add: I'm not dead, my stuff is still around, I'm actually putting some WORK into my next submission, including a script and voice-actors... I might put out something of about the same calibur as my other vids between now in then, but I AM working on something I hope you'll find humorous... or at least good. And it will be NG exclusive... just thought I'd throw that in there, sorry... continue!
This is a pretty late post and I don't know what has been said but in accordance to your post Tom I can say the following.
I do believe that Newgrounds deserves the upmost respect and credit for the portal. Cept with great power comes great responsibility 'to quite spiderman'. You guys invented the portal and deserver credit but you didn't copyright it. No, I'm not saying get a patent, I'm saying that by creating this you have created a system that everyone should be able to use. Like a said in a recent post, a portal is a user submitted autonomous content manager system and showcase and is specific to the users of that community. Sry, but you can't expect everyone to give you credit. Compare it to advertising. When someone comes out with an advertising tactic, everyone else immediately copies that for self-aggrandizement. Itz jus teh way thangs wurk.
Tom man, I've been visiting this site since '98/'99 when Barnyard Shenanigans, and How Tupac Died were the hits of THE portal. before it was wasn't even automatically displaying submitted flash yet. If anyone argues that any other site used the Flash Portal idea before Tom, just check the dates of when those classic flash were submitted.
Maybe to be safe for your sake Tom, you should buy a copywright for the flash portal formula before some asshole does it before you and starts causing pointless legal stuff.
At 6/9/04 01:21 PM, TomFulp wrote:
My rant was inspired by this thread.
OMFG I inspired Tom Fulp! I can't believe it OMFG! I bet you muffins are kicking yourselves in teh ass right now, huh? w00t :)
I actually checked out a submission from that flipsided.com site, and they even have the NEWGROUNDS PRE-LOADERS LMAO. And that guy can't see the similarity to his site and newgrounds?
My big question is: How much can Tom Fulp actually do about any of these copy sites?
How much of Newgrounds is copywritten and how much is just a clever way of putting together open source code? Can you put a patent on web site structure? I know that getting a copyright for everything (the term "blam","Flash Portal" or Pico, etc) is expensive and I'm sure legal battles are even more expensive if it came down to suing those who copied a little too much. But what can anyone do?