Be a Supporter!

YouTube and Animators

  • 34,475 Views
  • 301 Replies
Respond to this Topic
TB1ZZL3
TB1ZZL3
  • Member since: Jan. 31, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 16
Gamer
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 19:33:20 Reply

Someone suggested re-adding the portal as a main link on the top bar. I don't have an issue with the drop-down menus but there should most certainly be a flash portal button outside of the drop-down menus, perhaps even bigger than the other ones to draw more attention.


Last.fm | Xbox LIVE - TEE B1ZZL3 | Steam

BBS Signature
aListers
aListers
  • Member since: Apr. 19, 2007
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 14
Gamer
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 19:40:29 Reply

Talking about Newgrounds compared to Youtube in terms of views, I decided to look at my flash movies to see how much views I get. I've noticed that my average amount of views is 3000 which is huge for an animator as crap as I am. I know a comedian on youtube who gets paid enough to do youtube alone who usually only gets 3000 views on some of his videos. I am probably the worst animator on newgrounds but people still notice me. On youtube a guy like me would probably max at 700 views but my max is roughly 6000. Events, the portal and the community really put into perspective how good newgrounds is for getting you seen. Even though I'm a part of the clock crew which garauntees you views - anybody can join the clock crew which means that you can have loads of people looking at your stuff.

Newgrounds is a good place to start but youtube isn't the place you end up. I may be newgrounds exclusive, currently anyway, but newgrounds garauntees that you will get looked at, people will tell you how to get better and when you've made it big it is a place that you can stay. Patreon is cross website and youtube doesn't pay you for exclusive content so trying newgrounds won't hurt. Youtube doesn't have a loyal community to speak of so submitting your work to newgrounds can only gain you fans.


???-2004?=dark ages, 2005?=atomic betty era, 2006=red dwarf era, 2007-2009=newgrounds era, 2009-on= anime era.
What have I done with my life?
clock crew

BBS Signature
Sexual-Lobster
Sexual-Lobster
  • Member since: Apr. 12, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 18
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 19:47:36 Reply

I'll keep posting, NG gave me my start.

VicariousE
VicariousE
  • Member since: Feb. 15, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 33
Blank Slate
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 19:48:13 Reply

At 8/3/14 06:44 PM, Rees303 wrote: I think Newgrounds should go back to the original portal as the direct link to view animations. Not multiple tabs.

That's been said a lot in this thread, and I'm with you on that. It seemed like. before the last redesign, that's where the center of action was. The tabs are still helpful, but seem messy when you get into it... after all, there aren't that many options to search. Tags are helpful, but not everything's tagged or tagged properly.

In 2009 (wasn't it?) when YT embeds were allowed here, it did bring a few YT members to Newgrounds... then the YT links on every piece of shit they uploaded here began popping up, and still do :\

YouTube is to the internet, what WalMart is to America's small retailers - a big bully, who destroys communities, that concentrates all the attention on their algorithms/stock holders, and not the little guy.

They're killing the little guy! used to appear on a lot of vacated store fronts after the Great Depression hit... and we're due for another one soon. Diversity yields strength. Unfortunately, that's not the way things work these days.


Now building Vault 101, reverse engineered from yesterdays technology.

BBS Signature
Jaltoid
Jaltoid
  • Member since: Oct. 20, 2012
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 01
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:01:41 Reply

I have a lil bit of a diffrent opinion, but here is my 2 cents

In 2004 I decided to take a jab at animation and put it on Newgrounds. It was my first experience animating ever. After knowing this community for about a decade now, a lot has changed and a lot is still the same. I know most of you know me as Jaltoid, but I have a lengthy past on Newgrounds under multiple aliases.

One thing that has never changed is the veteran community. The ones that both contribute content and, give valuable feedback to content creators. Those are the the people that keep the engine running. They have seen independent animation go from amateur, to fully animated shorts. They know potential when they see it.

Of course there are those that come and go, they come here, watch videos, play games, and don't say much.

However, there is also a community that seems to cycle a lot, but the values are always the same. There is just this aggressive face of Newgrounds, and its very unwelcoming to potential talents, and established entities that they might not like. This is exactly why we only submit some of our videos to Newgrounds, we actually feel like we'd get targeted if we didn't entertain someone. One major thing is animation technique, animators treat tweens like the devil, they always have. No Matter how you use the. What you all have to remember is that Flash is a tool, and its up to the artist's vision to decide what comes out of it. The reason I am not still using my old accounts is because I gave up on them. I got into petty Internet wars with people, being insulted constantly for being an "unfunny motion tweening faggot" (clumping the usual insults together, not an actual quote.)

My first upload to Newgrounds got so much unnecessary hate, it was ridiculous. I was a big fan of someone on this site, so at the age of 12, I thought remaking one of his videos was a good way to commemorate him. He took the route of mocking me publicly, and the musician decided to join in on the mockery. I was 12 and honestly, didn't know any better. I wont give names, but I will say they were the most popular people on Newgrounds by far, at the time. So they had a lot of sway.

A lot of other stuff happened, but lets skip forward to recently. In 2012, after taking a 2 year break from animating, I eventually went to YouTube. After a few months of hard work, me and emi established ourselves. Free from conflict, free from that constant Artist Vs Artist drama. I was able to be isolated from other animators, and just by myself. I realized something after coming back to Newgrounds. Everyone has the desire to see this website do well. But at the same time, some of them would rather trample potential, for reasons I don't fully understand. So much talent chased off this site, because they simply didn't like their content.

We're all artists, we all have a vision. Animators are a minority on the internet, we need to stick together! We all want to be criticized, and improve on what we already are capable of. But please for the sake of the future of Newgrounds, keep your insults/passive aggression to yourself. Nothing makes people stop using this site more when artists slapping other artists in the face. Those are your peers. Sometimes they will just leave, and fine acceptance and success elsewhere. Because when a big animator is supporting this site, EVERYBODY benefits. Because they are attracting more people to the site, other animators see more followers, and viewers see more content. It will make Newgrounds a hot spot again like it was in 2006.

One last point, people like me are not here to flaunt our "e-fame" to Newgrounds, and I feel like a lot of people here avoid us for that very reason. We are no better than any other animator on this site, so no need to tell us things like " If people like bad content, I'll leave them alone." A review is valuable feedback, but we don't need those passive aggressive jabs. We want to help others, and maybe get some help in return. We're not animating gods because we have inflated statistics behind our name.

Anyways thats my book, if you read it all, your a trooper!

Blordow
Blordow
  • Member since: Dec. 17, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 27
Artist
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:23:21 Reply

I always get more views here than I do on yt, it's great for exposure, it's a neat place to collab and even make money, you get rewarded for your work and talent, i.e. getting frontpaged, giveaways (remember that 30 day tablet giveaway back in December 2008? That was amazing and super generous of Tom).

I think people are delusional with success on YT, it's a totally different platform and while yes there is a chance to succeed, it requires a lot of work to keep it going, for something as time consuming as animation it's not worth it. Newgrounds is casual as fuck yet it still rewards artists for contributing, I've always liked that, and gives any up and comer a chance to be heard if they're willing to improve themselves.

It's a shame I'm not a big name or made of money, I've chipped in here and there when I could afford it, but the best way I think to contribute is to upload your work!


BBS Signature
Zachary
Zachary
  • Member since: Aug. 11, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 30
Melancholy
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:36:25 Reply

At 8/3/14 08:01 PM, Jaltoid wrote: Stuff

While all of this sounds nice and dandy, if you are trying to say YouTube doesn't have comments that say the same exact things, then you are lying to yourself. Obviously a jab from an established artist might mean more, but there are people on every website that will leave a bad review just because they can. It is not like by avoiding Newgrounds you can avoid shitty people.

Maybe it is because on Newgrounds it is easier to actually read every review that comes through because of the way it is setup and on YouTube the comments are a little more chaotic, but on animations on YouTube I see basically the same horrible "reviews" you are talking about, and some worse. For the most part, Newgrounds reviews are better because there is a team of moderators filtering out reviews that are exactly what you said. On YouTube, it is a free for all.

Just my two cents, I do agree that everyone here should have everyone else's back though. Newgrounds is an amazing place to draw inspiration from others and to pick the brains of some of the people you admire.


.

BBS Signature
Zictor
Zictor
  • Member since: Jul. 21, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:39:11 Reply

Hey! I'm totally into this place. Youtube has shown me WAY LESS results on all of my recent animations than their figures on NG. They get seen here. But not enough. Social networking has basically screwed us over... but maybe if we were all to band together as a community, and get noticed by the mainstream media for doing something huge, we'd stand a shot. Hell, try and get a guinness world record for number of independent animators working on a single project or something silly like that...

With a large group of people we have a louder voice and that may give us more of a chance to be heard!

Think of all the people who have made success out of this website, pull em' back and be like, right, we did you a favour... now it's time for you to help us!

TerribleDesign
TerribleDesign
  • Member since: Jul. 8, 2014
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 09
Blank Slate
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:40:39 Reply

Back in the day, YT was looking for original content after the Google acquisition so people would come to the website for more than the copywritten TV content that they had no copyright to post. That was a boon for animation and even gave some classics a second wind.

Let me tell you about "Charlie the Unicorn", and ignore the join date on this profile.
Way back when it was uploaded to NG, I was one of the first people to see it in the portal during judging. I even gave it a 5! Wow!
Fast forward two/three years, and all of a sudden everyone is quoting the hell out of it, and I was like "What?" This was my first experience with NG content migrating to YT years later. Of course the "original" YT upload was a rip posted by someone other than Secret Agent Bob/FilmCow. This was great for the original creator as this was the kind of original content YT needed if it was going to be viable in the future.
However, it seems that YT system still favors the animators that were first to market. Although it was great to see Neil Cicierega get some more love as he was always one of my favorites with his "animulations", I have not seen any original animations being touted by YT that aren't by those already established on YT. In this regard, I agree that posting exclusively to YT will only limit your potential reach. They don't care about newcomers that can't play the metric game. :(

However, Newgrounds does! :) If you don't get Blammed.

As far as what I recall about NG's perceived image, most of my peers only recalled the "mature" section. Most people responses were "Yeah/Ew there are girls getting in the ass on there!" In reference to a certain classic Britney Spears Flash. I'm not even sure they looked at the front page, haha. So if there are plans to move the adult material, I am all for that! NG is much more than animated T&A. I will also admit it is funny to see games/movies get better scores than other similar quality content because there is a bit of "erotic" nudity. If the vote buttons on this new website isn't an erection of sorts, I will be disappointed.

On a side note, maybe have a website for controversial content? I vote for 9/11part2 as the name.

The most growing pains I remember Flash games/animations going through came with the Adobe acquisition of Flash coupled with the explosion of new web browser updates. You would find that one browser would run one game fine, but crash in another. It was not uncommon to have buttons not respond properly in Firefox and have to use IE! Yes, use IE to play a game! This was before Chrome came, and even then Chrome had some growing pains supporting Flash. Now it seems to be fine, but then again Flash Player 12 could mess it all up!

Overall, it would seem that the latest tech bubble is all about ad revenue. If NG can make it through this by getting even better ad revenue, I say go for it, but I wouldn't put all of my chickens in that boat. I believe that lowering the barrier to Flash game design is one major way NG can help bring in more new talent. Flash is a great all-in-one tool for game design! Too bad the documentation is horrid! There is no way a total beginner could make anything exciting in 30 days.

TL;DR:
Posting exclusively to YT is silly. Making a separate adult content website is a great idea. Helping facilitate new game designers can bring in new talent.


I make Comic Sans look good.

BBS Signature
M-Abrantes
M-Abrantes
  • Member since: Feb. 16, 2014
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 15
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:41:26 Reply

At 8/3/14 02:25 PM, bigjonny13 wrote: We don't come to Newgrounds to make a living, we come to Newgrounds to be a part of the community

HE HAS SPOKEN. And I totally agree with him.

This community has inspired me everyday since I created an account a few months ago. You guys would laugh at me if you see the amount of money I made so far with my stuff - which is almost nothing -, but I'm still as inspired as in the my first day here.

LONG LIVE TO NEWGROUNDS.


'Les gens s’interessent à l’art parce que c’est la seule trace de notre passage sur terre.'
Intouchables
, Philippe.

JimmyTheCaterpillar
JimmyTheCaterpillar
  • Member since: Aug. 12, 2011
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 17
Writer
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:50:03 Reply

Thank you for making some points no one else ever mentioned, Tom! I was starting to feel like the only who thought it was stupid people left NG for YouTube and just abandoned it completely, even though it only takes about five minutes to post something here.

Who knows? Maybe this will mark the comeback of Newgrounds.


SIG BY AMARANTHUS.| I USED TO BE BROKENRECORD6299 AND UNCLECUBONE
| I'm in a band 'n stuff.| Here's some advice on how to be a writer.
I ENJOY CRANBERRY SAUCE. A LOT.

BBS Signature
Jaltoid
Jaltoid
  • Member since: Oct. 20, 2012
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 01
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:54:55 Reply

At 8/3/14 08:36 PM, Zachary wrote:
At 8/3/14 08:01 PM, Jaltoid wrote: Stuff
While all of this sounds nice and dandy, if you are trying to say YouTube doesn't have comments that say the same exact things, then you are lying to yourself. Obviously a jab from an established artist might mean more, but there are people on every website that will leave a bad review just because they can. It is not like by avoiding Newgrounds you can avoid shitty people.

Maybe it is because on Newgrounds it is easier to actually read every review that comes through because of the way it is setup and on YouTube the comments are a little more chaotic, but on animations on YouTube I see basically the same horrible "reviews" you are talking about, and some worse. For the most part, Newgrounds reviews are better because there is a team of moderators filtering out reviews that are exactly what you said. On YouTube, it is a free for all.

Just my two cents, I do agree that everyone here should have everyone else's back though. Newgrounds is an amazing place to draw inspiration from others and to pick the brains of some of the people you admire.

Oh yeah, comments in general on the internet are just rubbish.

Its not so much the reviews, I don't mind a negative review. Most of the time, they offer some valuable feedback. Its more so the artists insulting other artists. Its ok to criticize, but putting someone down if a different story. Its like if you preform music at a coffee shop, and the average person there gives you mixed comments. Anytime you get mixed comments of course the bad ones stick out. But you take it for what it is, just comments. But lets say a group of musician do the same thing. Its a lot different than people who aren't musicians because these people do their own performances. To an artist, it sucks. Its almost like feeling rejected.

Maybe its the fact that animators are more likely on Newgrounds. But if that's the case, we should really neutral at least. It's healthy for the community. Newgrounds, is what originally get me inspired to animate. The site is a great platform, hints why I still believe in it. A platform is only as good as the people using it make it out to be.

maplenet2
maplenet2
  • Member since: Apr. 1, 2013
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 03
Blank Slate
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:57:46 Reply

at first, i always thought newgrounds was a virus on the internet. But now, i think of it as an internet cancer that provides cool perks, like how certain diseases can't infect you. we need more people to know about this awesome cancer

LevaBoy
LevaBoy
  • Member since: May. 15, 2010
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 26
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 20:58:11 Reply

NG is very important to me, I started to show my work here before than elsewhere. all my animations and games are presented first in NG. The opinions and criticisms I receive on this page are the first I have in mind to know how is my work


BBS Signature
Nicholas-Deary
Nicholas-Deary
  • Member since: May. 12, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 39
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 21:07:41 Reply

At 8/3/14 05:13 PM, ZJ wrote: The reason I ask is because psychicpebble brought this idea up in a recent Tweet

I checked out the tweet conversation. The stuff he was saying about subscribers not watching your stuff...that's been an fundamental flaw for many years. I think most Youtube users are lucky if more than 15% of their subscribers watch their videos on the first day of upload. I've always wondered why it's such a low percentage..I guess it's not mutually exclusive to Youtube, just the way people interact and are motivated to click on stuff online.


BBS Signature
Gerkinman
Gerkinman
  • Member since: Jan. 11, 2004
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 13
Blank Slate
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 21:08:20 Reply

I was actually going to make a video about this tomorrow. I know I have given this site a lot of shit over the years, and most of it was completely unfair BUT this site has also made me who I am, its why I started to animate, and its a large part of why I continue to animate. Hearing these high profile people complain about having nowhere to post there work where it will get noticed when this is where they got there start is some of the stupidest shit I have ever heard. This website has a built in audience, people are here for animation and games, thats it. Your not competing with Lets Plays and Vlogs. You have the portal which ensures that everyone gets seen and if the site was pulling in the views it used used to then even someone who didn't get a daily place would still get some cash. I want Newgrounds to grow, I want it to succeed. I know you guys are working on shifting the porn and things which will help a lot. You guys reeeeeeeally need to get that embedding working on facebook and tumblr and all of these social networks tho and I think its really integral to getting the ball rolling again.

I don't intend on stopping submitting content here any time soon.You have supported my work despite how much of a cunt I have been over the years. So thank you and I hope things starting moving again soon.


DOUBLE POST! BAM! I thought that was fixed.

Jazza
Jazza
  • Member since: Oct. 31, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 09
Game Developer
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 21:41:56 Reply

Goddammit Tom, I fucking love you. Sharing this in a video later this week.


follow me: TWITTER and FACEBOOK

Jazza
Jazza
  • Member since: Oct. 31, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 09
Game Developer
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 21:45:19 Reply

Also I'll just say here, that a mobile site and/or iOS/Android app to view/rate NG content may go a long way to push NG into being really legit competition to YT and others <3 (easier said than done, I know)


follow me: TWITTER and FACEBOOK

FretlessFinesse
FretlessFinesse
  • Member since: Jun. 6, 2010
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 03
Musician
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 21:45:33 Reply

Well said, Tom. This really puts things in perspective for those of us who are not familiar with these workings.

Kostou
Kostou
  • Member since: Dec. 20, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 25
Blank Slate
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 21:49:09 Reply

Long live NG. I plan on seeing it around another 10 years.

Zerodecoole
Zerodecoole
  • Member since: Aug. 4, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 14
Voice Actor
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 21:54:12 Reply

Well said.


Okay.

DrMackFoxx
DrMackFoxx
  • Member since: Mar. 9, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 48
Musician
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 21:58:00 Reply

I find Newgrounds to be a double-edged sword.

On one hand, here is a platform where animators, artists, musicians, voice actors, game designers and more can get a good start and where talent tends to stand out by way of daily and weekly Portal Awards. In addition, composers and musicians have a chance to get their latest tracks featured among the top 4 best-scoring recent submissions each week. Most importantly, you don't have to have millions of subscribers to get featured here. Heck, my first Portal Award was a Daily 5th on a stop-motion animation back on November 21, 2006.

On the other hand, should some of your work get featured and you don't have a big following around here to offset unfair downvotes, be prepared to be punished. There are people here who will literally downvote something every day for months on end just because they don't like it or don't like you for whatever reason.

It's just the nature of the system here. Some good, some bad.

Still worth submitting here? Absolutely! At least here, one does have not to be a multimillion subscriber Internet superstar to stand out. If you've got awesome work, chances are, it's going to be seen and you are going to be noticed.

MrChambers
MrChambers
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2013
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 02
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 22:03:51 Reply

Being a new guy to Newgrounds and the whole animation scene in general, this post really made me happy to see. I never knew much about the history of NG until now. And I will also post my animations here until the day that i cant animate anymore. Thanks for sharing Tom.

Gi-go
Gi-go
  • Member since: Jan. 31, 2004
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 28
Filmmaker
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 22:03:54 Reply

At 8/3/14 03:51 PM, FANTASHOW100 wrote:
At 8/3/14 02:46 PM, Gi-go wrote: As a film maker, I wish that the NG team or people similar to you guys could make an NG type site based around original
Perhaps a live action portal? If that happens, I want vlogs to be a banned offense.

Yes. I fucking hate vlogs...

Flee
Flee
  • Member since: Oct. 26, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 48
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 22:25:27 Reply

At 8/3/14 01:22 PM, TomFulp wrote: I got it though; NG had failed them miserably. Web animators were growing up and they wanted to make a living; that wasn't happening with NG. I felt like this was a deserved punishment because NG hadn't lived up to its potential and I spent a few years beating myself up about it.

You're about 5 or so years late if you want to win back the best animators you've ever had creating content.


BBS Signature
steph2568
steph2568
  • Member since: Jun. 8, 2007
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 29
Melancholy
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 22:26:01 Reply

I read somewhere that YouTube takes about 45% of a user's revenue if they partner with them. If they were managed by a production company and had the amount of views that YouTubers like Ryan Higa or PewDiePie have, then it really wouldn't be an issue but as an independent animators, it really does screw them over in the long run.

I'm not an animator nor do I really contribute to this site besides posting on the forums but I've been a user long enough to see what NG has been able to do for people here, even though there's not as much $$$ as YouTube. Like you said, NG gave animators a platform for years before Youtube existed, and there's a community here that legitimately cares to see others improve in their craft. Most of it, I feel, is because of you Tom. I never got the feeling that we were just cash cows, that unless we spent/made money for the site, we didn't matter. Your focus was always on the content, and I really appreciate and respect you for that. NG really is a great site and I can see it's from all the effort you and the staff put into it.

Haha this turned out like an "ilu Tom & NG"post, but basically what I'm saying is YouTube doesn't cater to animators like NG does. YouTube has definitely changed (for the worse imo) from back when people could just make videos from their shitty webcams in their bedrooms. NG may not pay the bills, but it offers a lot for animators that I feel YouTube most likely never will.


<3

BBS Signature
Copywrong
Copywrong
  • Member since: Aug. 7, 2011
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 26
Writer
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 22:41:32 Reply

I've had a greater chance of discovering creative content on Newgrounds than YouTube per week or so. Thanks to the "Under Judgement" page, it's easy for me to discover something really cool that's also on YouTube, but with only around ten hits.

Over the past few months, I've seen several movies created in Source Filmmaker which were published on this website. I'm planning on making one myself, so I'm wondering if SFM videos really are acceptable. I PROMISE YOU THIS WON'T BE A TEST, WIP, OR FIFTEEN SECOND VIDEO!!!


Beneath the river lies a resealable bag of pennies. Don't bother diving for $1.44, the local fowl will beat you to it any day.

FANTASHOW100
FANTASHOW100
  • Member since: May. 20, 2010
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 07
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 22:41:56 Reply

At 8/3/14 08:01 PM, Jaltoid wrote: I have a lil bit of a diffrent opinion, but here is my 2 cents

In 2004 I decided to take a jab at animation and put it on Newgrounds. It was my first experience animating ever. After knowing this community for about a decade now, a lot has changed and a lot is still the same. I know most of you know me as Jaltoid, but I have a lengthy past on Newgrounds under multiple aliases.

One thing that has never changed is the veteran community. The ones that both contribute content and, give valuable feedback to content creators. Those are the the people that keep the engine running. They have seen independent animation go from amateur, to fully animated shorts. They know potential when they see it.

Of course there are those that come and go, they come here, watch videos, play games, and don't say much.

However, there is also a community that seems to cycle a lot, but the values are always the same. There is just this aggressive face of Newgrounds, and its very unwelcoming to potential talents, and established entities that they might not like. This is exactly why we only submit some of our videos to Newgrounds, we actually feel like we'd get targeted if we didn't entertain someone. One major thing is animation technique, animators treat tweens like the devil, they always have. No Matter how you use the. What you all have to remember is that Flash is a tool, and its up to the artist's vision to decide what comes out of it. The reason I am not still using my old accounts is because I gave up on them. I got into petty Internet wars with people, being insulted constantly for being an "unfunny motion tweening faggot" (clumping the usual insults together, not an actual quote.)

My first upload to Newgrounds got so much unnecessary hate, it was ridiculous. I was a big fan of someone on this site, so at the age of 12, I thought remaking one of his videos was a good way to commemorate him. He took the route of mocking me publicly, and the musician decided to join in on the mockery. I was 12 and honestly, didn't know any better. I wont give names, but I will say they were the most popular people on Newgrounds by far, at the time. So they had a lot of sway.

A lot of other stuff happened, but lets skip forward to recently. In 2012, after taking a 2 year break from animating, I eventually went to YouTube. After a few months of hard work, me and emi established ourselves. Free from conflict, free from that constant Artist Vs Artist drama. I was able to be isolated from other animators, and just by myself. I realized something after coming back to Newgrounds. Everyone has the desire to see this website do well. But at the same time, some of them would rather trample potential, for reasons I don't fully understand. So much talent chased off this site, because they simply didn't like their content.

We're all artists, we all have a vision. Animators are a minority on the internet, we need to stick together! We all want to be criticized, and improve on what we already are capable of. But please for the sake of the future of Newgrounds, keep your insults/passive aggression to yourself. Nothing makes people stop using this site more when artists slapping other artists in the face. Those are your peers. Sometimes they will just leave, and fine acceptance and success elsewhere. Because when a big animator is supporting this site, EVERYBODY benefits. Because they are attracting more people to the site, other animators see more followers, and viewers see more content. It will make Newgrounds a hot spot again like it was in 2006.

One last point, people like me are not here to flaunt our "e-fame" to Newgrounds, and I feel like a lot of people here avoid us for that very reason. We are no better than any other animator on this site, so no need to tell us things like " If people like bad content, I'll leave them alone." A review is valuable feedback, but we don't need those passive aggressive jabs. We want to help others, and maybe get some help in return. We're not animating gods because we have inflated statistics behind our name.

Anyways thats my book, if you read it all, your a trooper!

(sorry, I don't know how to only quote a little bit of a post)

I've been on both sides of that aggression situation. My first flash here was just a black and white loop when I was really young, so I'm sure you can imagine how that was received. I will never forgive myself for a hurtful comment (I won't dignify it by calling it a review) I left on some kid's cartoon. I'm pretty sure I chased him out. I didn't even say anything constructive. I just bashed him like the 3edgy5me brat I was. The worst part is that it was rated as helpful. As Kevin Smith of all people once said, "The worst thing you can do is discourage an artist".

That aside, I'd like to point out that if every review was positive, we'd be worse than the worst parts of Deviantart in terms of content. There wouldn't be any improvement, because there wouldn't be anything said about what needs improvement. If someone says there's something that needs fixing in a flash, an overly positive community will think that, by saying something is wrong, the review is negative, and anyone looking to improve their craft will pass us by. We'll be a laughing stock.

Reviews should mainly consist of suggestions.
"Work on this,", "The timing here was a bit awkward, so you should shorten the end of that one shot where this thing happens,"

"Too short," is thrown around a fuck ton (for animation... wow), but it's better than "XD", "5 stars lol", or "0 stars cuz no pancakes in it >:(". In fact, one of the things that irks me about this site is the reviews. I've mentioned before in this thread that people here treat reviews as comments, so there's not as much constructive criticism as one would hope. I really want to defend the constructive and critical reviewing that basically taught me how to animate.

This site is as close to a true artist's experience as you can get for publishing low-brow content. This is coming from someone who's been in (and regrettably been part of) the aggressive aspects you're talking about. We just need to strongly encourage constructive feedback, and help each other out without deteriorating into a circle-jerk or getting into cock-measuring/flame wars, and I've seen isolated instances of both around here. It's certainly too much to ask to eradicate these things entirely, but if the day comes that no effort receives nothing but praise, I'm out.

dumbclowny
dumbclowny
  • Member since: Jul. 19, 2014
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 05
Artist
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 23:05:23 Reply

I see no reason why NG shouldn't be more popular than YouTube when it comes to animations a lot of animators have been saying themselves that YT simply isn't giving them enough support. If the popular animators from YouTube transitioned over to Newgrounds and brought their viewers I'm sure the website would explode and CPM would eventually increase.

Maybe it's just the layout, people who are used to YouTube usually just like to follow up on animators who have already proved they have amazing potential. Perhaps some people just want a main page with the latest and greatest content instead of it all being split up into different sections. I'm honestly used to having other related videos on the side of the video I'm watching on YouTube to lead me to my next video.

I believe animators could easily be supported and continue making content on Newground through websites like Patreon, if someone likes your content chances are they wont hesitate to pay you at least $1 per month/video for you to keep making great content.

At 8/3/14 09:45 PM, Jazza wrote: Also I'll just say here, that a mobile site and/or iOS/Android app to view/rate NG content may go a long way to push NG into being really legit competition to YT and others <3 (easier said than done, I know)

Although I also understand this would take quite a bit of work I completely agree, if Newgrounds was put into a mobile friendly format that would be amazing.


BBS Signature
Jaltoid
Jaltoid
  • Member since: Oct. 20, 2012
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Supporter
Level 01
Animator
Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 23:08:29 Reply

At 8/3/14 10:41 PM, FANTASHOW100 wrote:
At 8/3/14 08:01 PM, Jaltoid wrote:
I've been on both sides of that aggression situation. My first flash here was just a black and white loop when I was really young, so I'm sure you can imagine how that was received. I will never forgive myself for a hurtful comment (I won't dignify it by calling it a review) I left on some kid's cartoon. I'm pretty sure I chased him out. I didn't even say anything constructive. I just bashed him like the 3edgy5me brat I was. The worst part is that it was rated as helpful. As Kevin Smith of all people once said, "The worst thing you can do is discourage an artist".

That aside, I'd like to point out that if every review was positive, we'd be worse than the worst parts of Deviantart in terms of content. There wouldn't be any improvement, because there wouldn't be anything said about what needs improvement. If someone says there's something that needs fixing in a flash, an overly positive community will think that, by saying something is wrong, the review is negative, and anyone looking to improve their craft will pass us by. We'll be a laughing stock.

Reviews should mainly consist of suggestions.
"Work on this,", "The timing here was a bit awkward, so you should shorten the end of that one shot where this thing happens,"

"Too short," is thrown around a fuck ton (for animation... wow), but it's better than "XD", "5 stars lol", or "0 stars cuz no pancakes in it >:(". In fact, one of the things that irks me about this site is the reviews. I've mentioned before in this thread that people here treat reviews as comments, so there's not as much constructive criticism as one would hope. I really want to defend the constructive and critical reviewing that basically taught me how to animate.

This site is as close to a true artist's experience as you can get for publishing low-brow content. This is coming from someone who's been in (and regrettably been part of) the aggressive aspects you're talking about. We just need to strongly encourage constructive feedback, and help each other out without deteriorating into a circle-jerk or getting into cock-measuring/flame wars, and I've seen isolated instances of both around here. It's certainly too much to ask to eradicate these things entirely, but if the day comes that no effort receives nothing but praise, I'm out.

Don't even get me started on dA, I actually felt worse about myself artistically on dA. Everything seemed so simulated and nobody seemed genuine. But you basically spoke exactly what was on my mind. We don't have to pamper the content creators, but we are responsible for raising them into well rounded artists. I think if you don't want constructive criticism you probably shouldn't be posting your stuff online. I just don't think people should have to be subjected to unnecessary negativity. Which ending that is impossible, but if we make the effort. We can't get worse, unless it does. Idk the internet has surprised me in the past lol.

:Also, I know that feeling like you might have chased someone out. I've felt that before. Its a horrible feeling, but don't let that linger. We all make mistakes, some may be critical. If its something that itches at you, just forgive yourself if you haven't yet. :)