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YouTube and Animators

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FANTASHOW100
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 16:21:47 Reply

Newgrounds is fantastic, and I wish there were more people here to watch internet cartoons.

When I posted my Old Earth flash on Youtube, the only support I got was from my friends and family when I incessantly showed them. I feel like a loser when I have to do that.

Here, there's some viewership required, and an audience of people who want to watch cartoons. The best thing you can do for an artist (besides a comprehensive critique, but most people don't have the know-how) is to let them know they're working for a reason, because sometimes I'll be working, and think that I'm going to be the only one who enjoys the final product. That is the absolute worst.

Youtube is just barren when it comes to animation, and it makes me really sad that this time consuming media is being received so impatiently by a community that expects videos on a daily basis.

That being said, there are a couple of issues that come with NG. The "reviews", especially on popular submissions, are often abysmal. Most of them mistake the "helpful" button for a "like", and they're just blindly competing for them. There's also the fact that a good majority of the content posted here these days are just cheap parodies. Remember when Flappy Bird was big? I don't want to either. I like to see what other people create on their own and how they think, so it does my head in every time I see a flash about another fucking Pokemon battle.

I really hope this site gets more recognition and original content. I see in this site the potential to be a springboard for the greatest visual media of our time, and I'll sing its praises to every animation/art fan I know until it happens... again.

glazov123
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 16:28:24 Reply

Personally, I have been around here since, like, 2002...
Maan it feels nostalgic, now that I've just remembered what it was back then, when you could "physically" play each and every single game on the site in one day. The main thing i regret about this place is that I haven't signed up myself and started making content sooner. Somehow, it took me years to come accross that...

But that's a different story.

The thing is, I ain't leaving NG. Maybe, just maybe, as soon as I reach 50 fans or something, I might probably make a new and proper account on YT and post some stuff there, but the main focus shall stay on NG.

I always thought of NG as some sort of a particle of the future (Hence the NG's former slogan), as well as some kind of a content creators' net fortress. :D


"Atarashii jikan ni youkoso, ningen..." ~Aoi Shinigami

DaSeriousTurtle
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 16:31:17 Reply

True.

Daker777NG
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 16:34:15 Reply

I hope Newgrounds reaches a renaissance era, animators may have their pockets on youtube, but they have their heart on Newgrounds, as soon as youtube fucks up for good, they will all come here, and that seems very likely seeing how youtube is run by monkeys.

sodacereal
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 16:35:17 Reply

As you can see, even my signature has a link to my YouTube.
However, I'm not an animator. It's always interested in me, and I figure maybe one day I'll get off my ass and really give flash a run for it's money, but newgrounds is still a great community and I enjoy it here. I enjoy the people, even though I'm fairly new aside from when I used it to mostly sneak on when my parents were asleep to squeeze one out when I was 12 or 13.

VicariousE
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 16:52:41 Reply

At 8/3/14 02:19 PM, JoSilver wrote: If there's one thing I wish is that adult content received more support, I can understand the reasons for not eligible for ad revenue but that in no way makes it less frustrating. I make more ad revenue from posting to the front page (like a penny) then the nothing I'll ever see from most of work. It's really annoying when I spend a few days on a small little game shooting game and it generates a nice chunk of ad revenue but will never see a penny on an adult game I made that I spent like 3-4 months working on.

Hopefully @Tomfulp will weigh in on this; he's going to migrate all the adult content over to another site, so both Newgrounds and the new adult site, can make more money!

It's not worth doing but I like doing it, unless you have your own website like Shadman or take commissions there no way to make money from it. But note I'm speaking in general on this point, no site other then Newgrounds that allows adult content has revenue sharing.

If the adult content is sectioned off (on another server and name), then more adult sponsors can come in.
If Newgrounds sheds the adult matter, more mainstream sponsors can come in.

However if there's one thing that Newgrounds does provide for adult content is views, there is no site other then Newgrounds where I see even nearly as many views.

I'm just hoping a single log on to NG will suffice for both sites, kinda like when YT requires a G+ account.... (NG Passport?)

too bad views don't matter on YouTube, AMIRITE!

I wouldn't know, I never made a YT account, and only had FB for a year, before I felt the Pan-Opticon growing strength....


Now building Vault 101, reverse engineered from yesterdays technology.

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Nicholas-Deary
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 16:59:42 Reply

At 8/3/14 02:43 PM, ZenithQuinn wrote: Here's a crazy idea... for content on newgrounds why not set up some sore of virtual tipjar option where users can tip a dollar or some bitcoin or whatever to a user who creates a great piece of content. With a small percentage going to NG, and the rest going to the creator.

Yeah, I think this is a pretty sweet idea!


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theblackeyes
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 17:05:02 Reply

That is something I will do Tom, just for you, my sweet, sweet prince.

mechadude32
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 17:05:14 Reply

All I really want is a downloadable section of Newgrounds were people can download full version fancy games. YouTubers will get the good ones, direct their juicy slaves to here, be like "hey! This is cool!" and stay for a while. Plus it would open up NG to a whole new audience of content creators and such. But what do I know? It'd probably be a pain in the ass to work everything out

Meh, I suppose that doesn't really fit in to the topic, so to fit in:

Newgrounds has something YouTube will never earn, a legitimate community that cares about the direction the site's headed. Many people on YouTube's top priority is there subscribers, views, and how much cash they're making. Most of the time.


"if you put quotes here you're an idiot" mechadude32 These are the jokes, people... (INSERT IMAGE HERE)

Damien
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 17:12:12 Reply

Man. All this positive attitude is bringing tears to my eyes. I remember that not even a year ago, everyone on the forums was scared about Newgrounds dying. Everyone making threads "Is Newgrounds dead?".
And now this.

Pretty cool.

ZJ
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 17:13:43 Reply

At 8/3/14 02:43 PM, ZenithQuinn wrote:
Also Tom, now would be a great time to do an AMA on reddit! ;)

I really like this idea. I know that Tom (@TomFulp) did one back in 2009, but enough time has past to probably justify doing another one. It could probably really help spread the word around.

As far as the Youtube thing goes, I'm certain that NG can step up and take it on by offering things that YT can't such as a robust community with a more personal touch from the staff, but I'm also wondering if the future of animation is going to be based more on concentrated groups on their own websites as opposed to big websites like Youtube or NG with their "portals" of content by tons of people.

The reason I ask is because psychicpebble brought this idea up in a recent Tweet and I find it fascinating because he just launched SleepyCabin.com with Stamper, RicePirate, Spazkid, and Oney. This makes me curious if the problem might stem from people wanting to focus more on their favorite established artists as opposed to being there to watch everything. As nice as it would be to think that all the people here want to watch Lil' Johnny the 13 year old's flash cartoon and tell him how to improve, the reality is that most of them probably just want to come in, watch the new cartoon by their favorite animator like Egoraptor or JohnnyUtah, and then leave.

I DUNNO. I FEEL LIKE I'M RAMBLING, BUT MAYBE I'M ONTO SOMETHING?!?!


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squidly
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 17:14:18 Reply

I honestly still hold that the redesign is what broke Newgrounds, it effectively killed the judgement system. I'd love to see data to counter this, though.

When exactly was our peak, and was it really a slow decline?

I also think there's a lack of, and you mentioned it, 'big' flash projects. No more Bitey, There She Is, Xiao Xiao, I remember when EVERYONE was playing the Madness Combat game. It was so cool, ragdolls, woo! There was nothing else like it.

Well now there is.

I think Newgrounds should think about accepting steam, not trying to counter it. I think there's a lot of money to be had if Newgrounds tried sponsoring Steam Game Developers, maybe some investments? I know a lot of amazingly talented animators and coders who can't afford to pay themselves/the other guy, for example, it took me a very long time to find someone who's in it for the long haul and would work for free until we get money. I think the sponsorships with the 'featured' content was a good move, and I really wish you would have kept that up, but moreso tried sponsoring BEFORE the game was complete. If a developer can show you a talented game with a talented engine, some good animations, it might be in your best interest to fund them. Maybe even sponsor them up until they can make a Kickstarter bid, then get the money back after they're done OR continue with them. A logo at the beginning of a Steam Game, many Steam Games, can do you wonders.

This is not scratching my back, here, I don't need any money anymore. I DO want Newgrounds to be successful, though, and I see it as a springboard site. In the past it was good enough to provide a portal, but now it's time to cut out the talent, make some deals, and if done right, it'll definitely come back to you.


Good.

Seprix
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 17:26:12 Reply

People who make music can't make money on here. Which is kinda sad. But eh...


Amateur Musician, SEPRIX!

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MentalMyles
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 17:38:29 Reply

In terms of views, Newgrounds gives you a bigger audience. While an animation I can upload would give me at least a few thousand, then I upload the same animation on youtube, you'll be lucky if you get at least.....under 100 maybe? This is without plugging the animation link or promoting it in any way.


Yeah, I don't speak much...

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KingDavid
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 17:42:01 Reply

Haha I'm still yet to get a cheque for any of my efforts online, but it was never about that especially here on NG <3
I think the larger problem stems from the saturated content being produced these days, and the lack of ground breaking entertainment, but i still see it seeping in here and there so be original, and do what u really wanna do as an artist - is the best advice i can give on the topic. I know for me right now I rely on studio jobs/animation contracts for my livelihood, at least right now anyways, The stuff I do on the side is usually purely for entertainment/ good practice, and if it makes me some ad revenue on the side - hey that's great, and if not.. no worries!

spacefader
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 17:57:24 Reply

New grounds is way better than youtube. My work gets much better views and its a far more specific audience rather than being sandwiched into a sea of cat videos. Also newgrounds has the feel of a local store where youtube feels like a fucking multistory shopping complex of shit. Anyway I didn't know about this site until a few years ago but it definitely deserves more respect. I guess the only reason put stuff on youtube is because I knew about it previously and I get the odd opportunity through it(mostly people finding out how expensive it will be for me to make them an animation ho ho).

Twisted4000
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:00:40 Reply

Very well put, Tom. It's funny how people excluesivly post their cartoons on YouTube and ditch Newgrounds, even though NG is the site that got them on their feet in the first place and there is literally NO downside to posting something here AS WELL as YouTube. Another thing they say is that "Newgrounds is dying, there's no point in posting there", even though THEY are the reason that the site does not have as many viewers as it used to, because THEY DON'T POST THERE.

I'm very thankful for this site and as long as it's up, I will always be posting here, for whatever that is worth.

johnathan-wrathborne
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:01:47 Reply

Youtubes biggest problem, is also its greatest strength, its size.

A good animation isn't easy to find, usually overshadowed by the other thousands of uploads, 90% of them silly crap thats an imitation of silly crap. Not to mention the sad reality is that you can spend months working on a toon that means the world to you, someone can spend 10 minutes making a silly video and do infinitely better than you because in the 3 months you spend animating, this other guy can put out 10 or so silly crap videos, get a partnership with youtube and make a few bucks while you get maybe 35-100 views for your endeavors...and maybe a subscription or two from the one or two people who enjoyed your work.

Its sad because in a way, Youtube kind of supports mediocrity and sloth as its these same silly crap videos that make people lots of money, fame, and "respect". I don't know anyone who respects clowns like Shane Dawson,Ray William Johnson, or the other Youtube stars.

Yes, Youtube also does support real talent, but the percentage between talent and silly crap is like 70% crap, 5% talent, 25% porn links and vids.

I'm all for silly crap, as silly crap is fun...but you can do so much more with it than quick edited monologues and bad skits with 6th grade humor. Theres not much skill to that, but when you animate it, its something different entirely. Its not a clown standing in front of his camera who can't remember his own script, its an animated world where anything can happen and you can make it happen.

Like Harry Partridge said "with animation, You can". He's absolutely right. Sadly, very few animators get much success on youtube, swallowed up by the thousands of other uploads. Youtube is not very supportive about its animation community and its draconian adsense policies(click fraud accusations that have no merit is still common) among other things are just another nail in an evergrowing coffin.

Youtube is past its prime, even though its still growing, its newer changes and "features" make it a tiresome mess to navigate,use, or even enjoy.

Best thing we can do is try to get youtube viewers over to newgrounds, theres a lot more to offer here than at Youtube, the honest to god talent on newgrounds still drawfs the overwhelming silly crap on Youtube.

NeppyNeptune
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:22:17 Reply

I've been on Youtube for a while and I can only say that it's going to shit, and i never realized that this was happening?? I'm really new here and I'm kind of surprised that things are going a bit downhill. I actually like this site much better than Youtube.

ZenithQuinn
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:29:42 Reply

At 8/3/14 06:22 PM, NeppyNeptune wrote: I've been on Youtube for a while and I can only say that it's going to shit, and i never realized that this was happening?? I'm really new here and I'm kind of surprised that things are going a bit downhill. I actually like this site much better than Youtube.

There's 72hours of content uploaded to YouTube every MINUTE...it's an unstoppable behemoth which is why it's still on top...

johnfn
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:35:11 Reply

Tom, you're a pretty cool guy.

I still feel the site is far too masculine in its design, which effectively cuts out half of the audience it could be seeing.


[6,11,4,10,2,10,-68,5,15,-68,16,4 ,1,-68,-2,1,15,16,-67].map(function(v){ return String.fromCharCode(v + 100) }).join(""); // updated for web 2.0!

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Lambtaco
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:37:49 Reply

Good to hear things are looking up. Thought there are still some kinks. NG's policy of putting an ad in front of every submission kinda grates me. Waiting through a 30 second ad to watch a cartoon I think sucks and only watch for 10 seconds is an example. And I imagine it can turn people away.

Rubberninja's video was informative. Ricepirate's was down right depressing.

Youtube's algorithm is bullshit. I get everything about session time and frequency of uploads, but the length of the individual video has no reason to matter. Unless you're one of those assholes who puts an add every 2 minutes that cut off the speaker mid-sentence, it's one add per video. Hell, longer videos use more bandwidth. The whole thing is down right discriminatory against shorter content.

And thanks to Tom for sending me that Wacom a few years back. I haven't made a lot of 'toons since then but it's been very useful. Just been tied up in a huge game project, and doing live action shorts on the side.

I feel like NG has lost it's theme of discovery. Ever since the portal was sidelined it feels like it's the same old stuff here. Pokemon parodies, artsy 8-it puzzle platformers, etc.. I miss discovering things that are entertaining, but flawed. And then helping the creator to improve. It's a testament to my own laziness that having two clicks to get to the portal stops me from going. But I feel there's less talk of the top 50 and blam/protect sort of things too. It's that sense of community I feel is absent without the portal as the focal point.

To end on a positive note. Loving the new interactions feed. I had no idea I was gaining followers at such a rate.


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zornuzkull
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:43:41 Reply

I'm happy for you and for NG it seems your time has come again
But a NG flash player app is essential so many unwatchable animations
On mobile anyway that's my 2 cents

Rees303
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:44:50 Reply

I think Newgrounds should go back to the original portal as the direct link to view animations. Not multiple tabs.


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SNAPCRACKLEANDPOP2
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:46:01 Reply

Thanks for saying this Tom! It annoys me so much when people leave us for Youtube or some other site. NG is for sure the best website out there for animators.


My signature is too refined and good for your plebien eyes. So it's not here. Boo-hoo for you.

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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:52:23 Reply

YouTube seems to be catering exclusively to those who intend to make a living off of videos, not those who do it purely out of passion or as a side source of income (not that I wish to imply that "full-time YouTubers" lack passion), so if there's a niche Newgrounds is looking to fill, we've got to stick to our roots and be a creative outlet for animators.


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urbfilms
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 18:59:16 Reply

Newgrounds is the site I spend the most time on daily, and it was Newgrounds that inspired me to animate, so I'd be glad to post more frequently on Newgrounds!


Hello, Hola, Bonjour Yeah, that's it. Those are all the ways I can say hello. I don't know anymore languages.

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ZaneZansorrow
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 19:06:08 Reply

I may not be an animator but I'm still grateful for the free wacom tablet you send me! And I've kept pushing myself to improve my drawings ever since. If I were though I would definitely prioritize NG over any other sites.


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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 19:09:35 Reply

Good post, Tom.

As for me I still enjoy seeing stuff in NG. There's ALWAYS something different and new here to see!

TheTownCrier
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Response to YouTube and Animators 2014-08-03 19:29:17 Reply

I just left youtube, anybody got any tips for a starting newgrounds member