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Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions?

11,966 Views | 154 Replies

All right, so I realize a lot of you don’t live in expensive, rapidly-changing urban areas, so you probably won’t be able to relate very well to what I’m about to say. That’s okay. But if you do live in or near a big city, whether it’s NYC, LA, Chicago, Philly, SF, or even somewhere a lot smaller like New Haven in CT, then I shouldn't need to tell you how much of an issue gentrification is. You already know, and you've either reached a boiling point now or a long time ago.

If you’re a native of any of the aforementioned cities (I don’t care if you live there now and moved there mid-point in your life--your opinion is completely irrelevant), you've certainly seen a lot happen over your entire lifetime. I’m just going to talk about NYC since it’s my native city.

My earliest memories were filled with seeing cabs and police cars that were Chevrolet Caprices and Caprice Classics, squeegee men, a bit more overall noise than I see now, but overall, it was a grittier place. Movies like Bad Lieutenant from around that era sum up my early childhood memories quite well. Let’s not forget the even wilder ‘70s and ‘80s which I was not even around for. Today, the images of rampant subway graffiti, prostitution and porn shops in Times Square, regular muggings and assaults, and “No radio” signs that many drivers put on their windshields to avoid break-ins have all but faded from the public consciousness. Why not bring those days back?

Now, when you live in a big city that is pretty much instantly recognized whenever you mention it, it could very well be a very target for potential very highly privileged newcomers. Throughout NYC’s history, and throughout the history of many other big cities, many newcomers came and went. In NYC’s case, in more recent years, population growth has been far too rapid, especially in Brooklyn. Many Brooklyn neighborhoods are now far more expensive than they were even 5-10 years ago, and the overall population has exploded more than I ever thought possible. Areas that have been “revitalized,” so say the gentrifiers, I consider ruined. These places include Bushwick, Williamsburg, DUMBO, Park Slope, Greenpoint, Carroll Gardens, etc.

We have definitely reached a point where for far too many of us, prices keep skyrocketing, but our paychecks are stagnant. When we try to find better-paying jobs, we have to compete with people that we know take up space and don’t belong here: the countless, never-ending influx of newcomers that we need to get rid of ASAP. They deserve nothing but disdain. Aside from taking up space and holding us back in terms of job competition, they do a lot of other damage as well.
What about the mom and pop stores, or city fixtures I grew up with? More of them just keep disappearing, even though in past generations, it was much easier to simply pass the baton. Just passing the baton is getting increasingly harder now because property owners are forced to charge more. Those stores are being replaced by either chain stores or health food or frozen yogurt places obviously catered towards newcoming hipsters.

Oh, and luxury condos. Fucking luxury condos. They are known to replace hospitals (RIP St. Vincent’s and Parkway), graffiti sites (RIP 5Pointz), and an infinite amount of other lesser-known places. Only certain people--you know who--can afford them. They’re everywhere these days, and development won’t stop being halted. In fact, their rate of growth now is much, much more rapid than I've ever seen it. No one can possibly comprehend now infuriated I am over this. I go to sleep every night wondering if my landlord will have to sell our entire complex to a developer who has the means to build lavish condos for millionaires and billionaires. The damage done by these luxury condos already built and in progress is so colossal that it's irreparable.

A lot has changed over 24 years. You can say crime is down (even though the po-po, especially in the last administration, are well-known for downgrading crimes so they could receive discretionary promotions above captain), the air is cleaner, more people are coming in than leaving, property values are up, and so on. These issues are all intertwined. A safer city is also a more expensive city. Property values are always high in areas generally perceived as safe. Newcomers know this. In fact, one of the first things they ask is stuff like, “Is this area safe? Am I going to get mugged? Do black people live here? Is some random dude going to shoot me in the head on my way to work at my $500,000/year job as a marketing executive?”

Just. Fucking. Appalling.

I’m going to address those newcomers directly right the fuck now: you need to be purged. Go back to wherever the fuck you came from. I wish I could make you a thousand times more paranoid than you already are from afar. In trying to improve your own life, you are fucking up thousands more in the process. Don’t rush and call the po-po just because you see one or two blacks or Hispanics innocuously hanging outside your building, presumably waiting for someone. Your overpriced yoga studios, frozen yogurt and organic food places can fuck off and burn in a wildfire. You've already killed the city's character, made the city infinitely more bland, and if you don't already have at least a black eye for it, believe me: you will.

Let’s remember that a lot of lifelong NYC residents are average or low income. I’m one of them. Newcomers that planned their moves here long in advance make far more than they deserve. There truly is nothing more disconcerting when everything around you keeps going up through the roof and then if you’re lucky enough to get a regular check, it usually stays where it is, for a long period of time, without going anywhere. Even if you work at a job where you can easily get promoted, not much is likely to change. The rates at which living costs are going up right now make living a major fucking hemorrhoid.

Over time, I've talked to a lot of mainly affluent people that have planned to move to NYC, hoping to talk them out of it, and expressing my concerns as a local. There’s one line that comes up over and over again, and it’s pretty short and sweet: “Fuck the locals.” It’s not uncommon to hear something racist and/or classist after that either. Such blatant disregard for residents in a city they've lived in their entire lives is precisely what makes you so contemptuous and why you need to be forced into a meat grinder.

There are solutions. Don’t incentivize any further luxury developments. Don’t promote NYC (or any other city or place whose cost of living you want steady) anywhere. Lay off a fuck ton of cops. Turn the whole entire city into a massive dump. Reopen the old Fresh Kills Landfill--I thought it was an egregious mistake to close it and convert it into a huge ass park, which is now a work in progress. Allow squeegee men to come back and do their thing without any repercussions. Subway graffiti? Thumbs up. Make the whole environment unbearable for people that moved here in search for a better life, but for those of us that have lived here forever--we’ve seen it all before. People will leave, property values will slip in a nanosecond, there will be mass panic, hell will break loose, and I say: fucking good. Good riddance to the undesirables, and good going for the real kings and queens of NYC.

It may sound ludicrous that I’m actively proposing extreme urban decay over a long period of time, but it really is the only viable solution to gentrification at this point. No other solution I've seen goes far enough. Our city had much more of a soul when big banks and chain stores didn't have ownership of certain well-established locations, and I want that soul back.

It’s imperative that we act now.

If any of you have any other gentrification solutions though, then propose them, and back them up. Either that, or you can talk about how you, or anyone else you know that have been adversely affected by gentrifying neighborhoods. If you've actually benefited significantly from any gentrifying city or specific neighborhood, you've been dealt a good hand to begin with, and I hope you choke on your own vomit.


Former iron fist mod of the NG Featureless Chat from May 23, 2012 to May 4, 2014.

NYC Meet 2010 | NYC Meet 2011 | NYC Meet 2013

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 12:41:33


Oh lord here we go another neo-hippie radical rant on gentrification a.k.a. when a city doesn't look like where drug users and prostitutes die.

I hear this all the time from the people I know in Philly and it's douchey as fuck.

I can see the monetary point but really dude you and every other hippie radical are practically whining because there's not shit smeared all over your surroundings.


Dr. Spedmund McMallet

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:04:04


At 7/10/14 12:41 PM, Spedmallet wrote: Oh lord here we go another neo-hippie radical rant on gentrification a.k.a. when a city doesn't look like where drug users and prostitutes die.

I hear this all the time from the people I know in Philly and it's douchey as fuck.

I can see the monetary point but really dude you and every other hippie radical are practically whining because there's not shit smeared all over your surroundings.

You're pathetically illiterate and you've already proven that by erroneously thinking that I'm a neo-hippie radical. Look no further than my second paragraph if you don't already know the well-established fact that I am a lifelong NYC native (which many people here already know):

"If you’re a native of any of the aforementioned cities (I don’t care if you live there now and moved there mid-point in your life--your opinion is completely irrelevant), you've certainly seen a lot happen over your entire lifetime. I’m just going to talk about NYC since it’s my native city."

I'll keep repeating myself over and over again: if you're not from NYC, or any other big city where gentrification is happening, your opinion is of no value, and I have no sympathy for you. But if you're from NYC, or somewhere else in the state of NY, you have a lot of ground to stand on.

Just over the past couple of years, I've read a lot of stories regarding many of these hipsters being priced out, and even people complaining about having to sell their yoga studios. Fucking really? Yoga studios are a fairly recent phenomenon and this is a classic example of gentrifiers now becoming the gentrified. But that doesn't change my opinion as far as how much we need to stop gentrification in its tracks--and in fact it underscores how much worse the issue is getting, and we have to retrogress at least 22 years or so.


Former iron fist mod of the NG Featureless Chat from May 23, 2012 to May 4, 2014.

NYC Meet 2010 | NYC Meet 2011 | NYC Meet 2013

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:14:40


I'm fairly okay with gentrification. Some neighborhoods in Philly are an absolute dump, Fishtown a few years ago was a shithole, nowadays it looks alot better and feels safer. To the point that I'm considering moving there next month.

I think I value a cleaner environment where you can legitimately raise a family without squatters leaving their dirty needles and shit all over. I feel bad those people get pushed further out, but really they werent contributing to the community anyway and in fact drive property value down and bring down the whole morale of the community and the enthusiasm of people who actually want to build a community and make things better.

I think when things goto extremes that's obviously bad. Some parts of brooklyn are like this and duh of course when things arent balanced its bad, but i think gentrification gets a bad tone when its more about modernizing things. Its all fun and dandy to pretend and be fond of old times but those years have past. Time to evolve like everything else in life.


None

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:15:21


Gentrification is becoming an issue in Philadelphia. Here in Philly there's this weird trend going on where "young upwardly mobile families" choose to move into the city from the suburbs, instead of the other way around. North Philly is bearing the brunt of the gentrification movement. They've been "revitalizing" areas that have been the homes of mostly low income black communities. It's really weird to see when you drive through. Most of North Philly is still crumbling and decaying row homes, but then you'll turn a corner and it's like you're in the suburbs all of a sudden. Single homes with lawns and SUV's parked out front.

It's not just North Philly's black community being pushed out. I didn't even think hipsters were real, but they've been invading certain areas. Fishtown has been a bastion of crazy Irish boys since the 1800's. Now all of a sudden polo shirts and fitted hats are being replaced by... I don't even know what. Dude's pushing empty baby carriages and stuff. They're also moving into parts of South Philly, Northern Liberties, and Kensington. They can have Kensington though. Fuck that shithole.

I live in the Northeast. It's a huge section of Philadelphia comprised mostly of working class Irish and Italian Catholics. It's historically been considered a safe area that you could raise a family in. In recent years, in part from the influx of displaced residents of other neighborhoods, it's been going downhill. "Uplifting" an area isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's not like those displaced residents just disappear into thin air. They have to go somewhere. Now my area is getting all fucked up and they'll probably start knocking down our churches to build $700,000 dollar condominiums soon too.


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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:19:34


At 7/10/14 01:04 PM, GoryBlizzard wrote: fuck the gentry im not radical neohippie but fuk da system build for gentrfication

I've held my tongue around the people I know who spout dumb things about gentrification

They all live in absolute shitholes and whine about gentry too. (They're like those goth kids from Southpark: "Man, I hope we don't get any douchey-little College kid preppies next door." Smokes cigarette and drinks coffee*)

It's almost adorable. It's like watching a horde of Oscar the Grouches complaining that some guy is trying to take all their trash.


Dr. Spedmund McMallet

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:21:51


At 7/10/14 01:15 PM, Me-Patch wrote: Gentrification is becoming an issue in Philadelphia.

First off i agree KENSINGTON IS A SHITHOLE.

I do think tho that gentrification in philadelphia isnt all bad. The city is littered with abandoned buildings full of squatters and just an all around eyesore. If I were mayor (or whatever) I'd boot out these property owners that have abandoned these buildings/storefronts and rent them super cheap to attract SOME sort of business to the city.

I think some gentrification is good as I mentioned. I lived in south philly for 4 years and areas like Passyunk square are 'gentrified' but not to an extreme, they are friendly and welcoming without feeling snobby (like Northern Liberties, piazza). I think when there is a good balance things actually improve and feel better for everyone. I think you'll naturally get hipsters as places gentrify but so what just ignore them. When have hipsters actually ever been violent or whatever. They tend to not bother anyone and just look kinda dumb.


None

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:35:10


At 7/10/14 01:21 PM, Luis wrote: I do think tho that gentrification in philadelphia isnt all bad. The city is littered with abandoned buildings full of squatters and just an all around eyesore. If I were mayor (or whatever) I'd boot out these property owners that have abandoned these buildings/storefronts and rent them super cheap to attract SOME sort of business to the city.

No, I agree. It's definitely not all bad. A lot of our urban decay is long overdue for a cleansing rain of fire. Some areas are so bad that there's basically nothing that could make them worse. Certainly not hipsters, who really don't even bother me in any way.


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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:40:45


So you're mad because things change. Oh well.

And please. Unless you're some kind of Native American you're not possibly native to that area even if you did grow up there and live there your whole life. But your ancestors pushed out the natives some many years back and so forth. Taking your own advice, you should get out of there. And if you are Native American, then disregard this.

You know I'm sick of seeing smaller independent businesses that have been around for years close down but I don't think gentrification is to blame. It's just they're not making enough money to stay in business while some large chains can take a hit now and again and come out alright. If you want to blame anyone blame the corporate fat cat CEOs of the world. The US should have never sent all the manufacturing jobs over to China.

But really it just sounds like you're mad because the world's changing around you and you can't adapt. Well you know what they say. Adapt or die. That's the law of natural selection.


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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:46:19


At 7/10/14 01:14 PM, Luis wrote: I'm fairly okay with gentrification. Some neighborhoods in Philly are an absolute dump, Fishtown a few years ago was a shithole, nowadays it looks alot better and feels safer. To the point that I'm considering moving there next month.

That's what I want: dumps that were historically dumps, or have been dumps for so long that they should stay that way.

I think I value a cleaner environment where you can legitimately raise a family without squatters leaving their dirty needles and shit all over. I feel bad those people get pushed further out, but really they werent contributing to the community anyway and in fact drive property value down and bring down the whole morale of the community and the enthusiasm of people who actually want to build a community and make things better.

The second part is where you're wrong. Many poor, working class individuals do in fact contribute to their communities, or just keep to themselves. Many of them have connections, good or bad, and the people that usually want to build and improve upon existing communities have nothing to do with those communities to begin with. They're invaders. Therein lies the problem. Well to do people making investments in places they have nothing to do with, then one thing leads to the other. It's a vicious cycle. Everyone just needs to know their places and stay where they are, and we'll all be better off in the long run. Our existing problem is simply out of control, and reigning it in is going to be a challenge. Also, if you have to move, don't leave your state.

Also, while many people see property values going up as a good thing, I don't. I want them to plummet.

I think when things goto extremes that's obviously bad. Some parts of brooklyn are like this and duh of course when things arent balanced its bad, but i think gentrification gets a bad tone when its more about modernizing things. Its all fun and dandy to pretend and be fond of old times but those years have past. Time to evolve like everything else in life.

It's not just some parts of Brooklyn: it's most of it. Most of the shootings you near about in our local news happen in Brownsville, but the cops are well-aware of that and keep increasing their presence. Properties there are still less than the rest of Brooklyn, but they could go lower, and that won't happen until people start feeling less safe. Know what I mean? NY has 62 counties--5 of which are the boroughs that make up NYC, and Brooklyn is the fastest-growing one out of all of them. It also continues to be the most populous. We need to continue paying close attention to the boom that's going on there because it's a real threat to us. It's easy to say that gentrification is bad when it goes to extremes, but moderating it is very very hard, so it's best to keep things the way they are now, or go back in time.


Former iron fist mod of the NG Featureless Chat from May 23, 2012 to May 4, 2014.

NYC Meet 2010 | NYC Meet 2011 | NYC Meet 2013

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:53:54


Well, to want for people to feel less safe as a means or sacrifice for a solution is not only silly, impractical, borderline delusional. If you're going to make a thread for solutions you should actually present realistic ones.


None

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:55:35


I think it's gen-t'riffic. Fackin' great stuff. Top, top urban reconditioning.

Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 13:58:34


You want gritty? Move to Baltimore or Camden....

Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 14:04:30


At 7/10/14 01:53 PM, Luis wrote: Well, to want for people to feel less safe as a means or sacrifice for a solution is not only silly, impractical, borderline delusional. If you're going to make a thread for solutions you should actually present realistic ones.

I understand how extreme it is--I even acknowledged that. I also said it's the only viable solution (at least that I can think of) because a lot of the other ones I've heard simply don't go far enough. One solution that has been bandied about and actually in effect here is forcing developers to allocate a certain percentage of apartment units to indigent families. That doesn't change the fact that you're still surrounded (in the same buliding, no less) by well to do individuals from who knows where that are pouncing on every single investment opportunity they can get, putting your city on the brink of being duller than your typical middle of nowheresville middle America.


Former iron fist mod of the NG Featureless Chat from May 23, 2012 to May 4, 2014.

NYC Meet 2010 | NYC Meet 2011 | NYC Meet 2013

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 14:08:54


Our zoning laws, also, aren't nearly tough enough on developers. The rezoning that has been going on, I'm sure, has been in response to the booming population. The only appropriate response is to chase these people out by whatever means necessary.


Former iron fist mod of the NG Featureless Chat from May 23, 2012 to May 4, 2014.

NYC Meet 2010 | NYC Meet 2011 | NYC Meet 2013

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 14:25:42


Alright look. You don't like where you are because it has changed from what it was when you were younger. The logical thing to do would be either adapt to the changes or move some place that is more to your liking. The illogical thing to do is expect everything will magically revert because you will it. The choice is yours.

I'm not even sure if you're sure of what exactly it is you want other than a generic "outsiders go home" and it sounds like you're more mad that you can't afford to stay in an increasingly pricey area than anything else. Well times change. Adapt.


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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 14:43:24


At 7/10/14 02:25 PM, NeonSpider wrote: Alright look. You don't like where you are because it has changed from what it was when you were younger. The logical thing to do would be either adapt to the changes or move some place that is more to your liking. The illogical thing to do is expect everything will magically revert because you will it. The choice is yours.

You're misreading me. Actually, I love where I'm from so much that it kills me to see how much more expensive, and how quickly it's changing. I refuse to leave unless I'm physically dragged, and even then, I won't leave my state. That's why I'm fighting against what I'm seeing, and I really do think it's in the best interest of the city to dial back in time. We actually had more flavor too a long time ago. Put aside the crime statistics for a second and look at the independently owned stores vs. corporate banks and chain restaurants. Now go decades later, and it's terribly obvious how much the little guy has been squeezed away by the big companies that have no shame in perpetuating their boring presences in areas that once held NYC staples. It's a disgusting sight to see.

I'm not even sure if you're sure of what exactly it is you want other than a generic "outsiders go home" and it sounds like you're more mad that you can't afford to stay in an increasingly pricey area than anything else. Well times change. Adapt.

That's a cold and classist thing to say, and I feel like I don't even need to bother asking you about your own socioeconomic status, because I already know.

We can even relate this to NG, in a way. Do you want to see NG to go down because it's being dwarfed by YouTube and Kongregate and many other big, similar sites online? Pretty similar to what's been going on all across NYC.


Former iron fist mod of the NG Featureless Chat from May 23, 2012 to May 4, 2014.

NYC Meet 2010 | NYC Meet 2011 | NYC Meet 2013

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 15:05:21


At 7/10/14 02:43 PM, GoryBlizzard wrote:
At 7/10/14 02:25 PM, NeonSpider wrote: I'm not even sure if you're sure of what exactly it is you want other than a generic "outsiders go home" and it sounds like you're more mad that you can't afford to stay in an increasingly pricey area than anything else. Well times change. Adapt.
That's a cold and classist thing to say, and I feel like I don't even need to bother asking you about your own socioeconomic status, because I already know.

We can even relate this to NG, in a way. Do you want to see NG to go down because it's being dwarfed by YouTube and Kongregate and many other big, similar sites online? Pretty similar to what's been going on all across NYC.

No, I don't, and I am a champion of the independent spirit. I much prefer a long-time independent shop over a generic "big box" type store and I much prefer an independently-minded website, such as Newgrounds, over a more generic type site.

Look, I know you want to retain whatever it was that was special that your area had from when you were younger. But you just can't. It's a losing battle. Times change. Especially in areas with lots of change and you're not going to be able to stop it. Regulations won't stop it. Activism won't stop it.

There's a local independent store that's closing and it's been there 28 years. And that really sucks that it's closing. But my wishing that it stays in business won't keep it around. I've bought things from there for years. And do I hate all the banks and stuff? Sure, but that doesn't bring businesses back.


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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 15:22:02


Your position in this regard is utter lunacy. It is the prerogative of every major city so raise living standards and eliminate crime. You do not have a claim to the city of New York simply because you were raised here.

If you can't swim with the sharks, then move out of the hollow.


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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 15:46:08


So in other words, you want to return to the gritty, dark and seedy ghettos rather than rejuvenation and progress to an area that really needs it, yeah I'm not sure that I follow that logic. Hell, gentrification shows that you are more than willing to invest into your city and are able to attract more businesses and customers who have enough disposable income to live and work in those places rather than having the lowest common denominator lurking about. It may not always work, but it's a far better option than doing nothing. At the end of the day, money is money, no matter who is it from or where it came from and cities and towns would be dumb to pass that up.

Having abandoned buildings and rotted industrial landscapes doesn't attract a lot of people who want to spend their money there, just look at Detroit as an example.


Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 15:52:25


At 7/10/14 03:27 PM, Urban-Champion wrote: yeah why let a city florish and prosper with development when it can instead wither away into a crumbled, dilapidated wasteland and eventually become abandoned

I'm sure that's what everyone wants

It's what I and many other natives would strongly prefer over the overwhelming smell of affluent outsiders. Our population circa 1900 was very close to what LA is today, and it should've stayed that way. It just goes to show how much work we have left to do.

NYC was already developed enough years ago. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as always. If it is broke, at least in some little fashion, most of us are okay with it. Overdevelopment and taking advantage of historically residential, working class or poor neighborhoods is a continuing threat. I don't see it going away but it needs to go away.


Former iron fist mod of the NG Featureless Chat from May 23, 2012 to May 4, 2014.

NYC Meet 2010 | NYC Meet 2011 | NYC Meet 2013

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 16:21:51


At 7/10/14 03:46 PM, orangebomb wrote: So in other words, you want to return to the gritty, dark and seedy ghettos rather than rejuvenation and progress to an area that really needs it, yeah I'm not sure that I follow that logic.

I realize that you don't, but not everyone wants the progress you think they "need." People that live in poor or working class areas really just want to be left alone. That's all. There are so many upper class people that drive by ghetto neighborhoods, rife with trash, heroin needles, crack vials and think to themselves, "Well, with all the deep pockets I have, what can I do to transform this dump into a paradise--a playground exclusive for the elite like me?"

This isn't really a race issue, but a class issue. People that think of those being pushed away normally think of blacks and Hispanics, but they aren't the only ones detrimentally affected--far from it, in fact. But people that clearly want to be left alone should be left alone, and that should be made clear.

Hell, gentrification shows that you are more than willing to invest into your city and are able to attract more businesses and customers who have enough disposable income to live and work in those places rather than having the lowest common denominator lurking about.

Gentrifiers typically come from outside, so it's not their city. They're fucking things up, and only lining up their own pockets, not realizing the damage they're causing, or really caring.

It may not always work, but it's a far better option than doing nothing. At the end of the day, money is money, no matter who is it from or where it came from and cities and towns would be dumb to pass that up.

It always backfires, and the outcry you're hearing now, and have been hearing for a while, is more than justified.

Having abandoned buildings and rotted industrial landscapes doesn't attract a lot of people who want to spend their money there, just look at Detroit as an example.

It's not all about the $$$. It's about protecting the historical integrity of the city. Any city. Especially over here, no doubt that's being compromised to such a large extent that it's only a matter of time before it explodes into an all out war.


Former iron fist mod of the NG Featureless Chat from May 23, 2012 to May 4, 2014.

NYC Meet 2010 | NYC Meet 2011 | NYC Meet 2013

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 16:52:43


I don't know what the world gentrification means, except from the word "gentry" which is sung in "married with children" intro theme. So what does the word mean. Explain to me in 2-3 sentences.


My topics when I wasn't an asshole...12

NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO STEAL AND/OR EDIT MY SIG WITHOUT MY PERMISSION

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 17:02:50


It could be the Boston in my blood fueling this but

WE GET IT. You're from a place. You like that place. I'm sure it's a perfectly nice place. But being from a place does not make you special. It is as circumstantial as your race and gender. Being exclusionary to outsiders does not lend you legitimacy or mystique. It makes you a high school mean girl. You are lending to the petty arrogance people project onto New Yorkers and if that keeps them away you couldn't be happier. Drink up your microbrew with a shot of not as clever as you believe snark and just stop making this argument. If you want an incestuous pit to grow out of the grand tradition of the the American melting pot then strap on a banjo, which you totally bought before any of us heard of mumford and sons.

Fuck I need a need some Dunkin Donuts and to kill that guy who played Ted Mosbey.


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 17:35:27


At 7/10/14 05:02 PM, stafffighter wrote: It could be the Boston in my blood fueling this but

WE GET IT. You're from a place. You like that place. I'm sure it's a perfectly nice place. But being from a place does not make you special. It is as circumstantial as your race and gender. Being exclusionary to outsiders does not lend you legitimacy or mystique. It makes you a high school mean girl.

You know, being from a place and having lived there your entire life is not as circumstantial as my race and gender at all. Not at all. Also, it's not as though I was born here and my parents decided to raise me somewhere else, then moved me back here. No. I've stayed here, closely observing everything firsthand, noting the gradual changes big and small that have happened over time, and keeping important events ingrained in my memory. I'll always have more credibility than any outsider does, and if I think it's in the best interest for them not to come in based on years of observations of social and economic patterns, I'm right. That's that. It's just a fact.

You are lending to the petty arrogance people project onto New Yorkers and if that keeps them away you couldn't be happier. Drink up your microbrew with a shot of not as clever as you believe snark and just stop making this argument. If you want an incestuous pit to grow out of the grand tradition of the the American melting pot then strap on a banjo, which you totally bought before any of us heard of mumford and sons.

Fuck I need a need some Dunkin Donuts and to kill that guy who played Ted Mosbey.

Everything I said is completely valid. It's not my fault that you or many other people don't like it. You have to really live it and fully experience everything I said over an entire lifetime to truly get a feel of what I'm saying. That's why there's, on average, such a wide discrepancy between my opinion and how everyone else feels.


Former iron fist mod of the NG Featureless Chat from May 23, 2012 to May 4, 2014.

NYC Meet 2010 | NYC Meet 2011 | NYC Meet 2013

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 17:45:34


At 7/10/14 04:21 PM, GoryBlizzard wrote: I realize that you don't, but not everyone wants the progress you think they "need." People that live in poor or working class areas really just want to be left alone. That's all. There are so many upper class people that drive by ghetto neighborhoods, rife with trash, heroin needles, crack vials and think to themselves, "Well, with all the deep pockets I have, what can I do to transform this dump into a paradise--a playground exclusive for the elite like me?"

So what you're saying is to let them rot in a certain neighborhood and just do nothing about it? Frankly, that's even more irresponsible than what you suggest, and it's easy to say that should be left alone, but to do so is basically only means that you're letting them be homeless and a blight on the city itself, not something that outsiders look towards if they want to visit a city for vacation or to live.

This isn't really a race issue, but a class issue. People that think of those being pushed away normally think of blacks and Hispanics, but they aren't the only ones detrimentally affected--far from it, in fact. But people that clearly want to be left alone should be left alone, and that should be made clear.

Everyone gets affected by gentrification, but the positives usually outweigh the negatives in the long term, plus no one who is poor wants to be poor for long, but they often (not always) become poor because of bad decisions in their lives.

Gentrifiers typically come from outside, so it's not their city. They're fucking things up, and only lining up their own pockets, not realizing the damage they're causing, or really caring.

So what if they aren't from the city? They only come to help bring a city up rather than tear it down because there would be no financial sense to do so. What you're telling me is that you're against progress and and insisting that major cities don't do anything to improve their cities' standing and reputation.

It always backfires, and the outcry you're hearing now, and have been hearing for a while, is more than justified.

Except that it doesn't, usually. For example, the Arena District and the Short North of Columbus, Ohio were known for being industrially depressed and had no real advancement for growth due to widespread poverty and bad decision making in the 60's and 70's. It wasn't until the late 80's and 90's when the city realized that they had a potential gold mine and something that can turn around the image of Columbus, so they invested in making more shops and more upscale properties, and now they're one of the best neighborhoods in the city and the city rakes in many millions for other projects.

The only people who complain about gentrification are old folks who long for the old days and simple-minded idiots who can't seem to understand the big picture on how a major city works.

It's not all about the $$$. It's about protecting the historical integrity of the city. Any city.

The good ones are able to keep much of the old history while building the future, and Columbus, Ohio is one example of this. Even then, old historical buildings and integrity means nothing in the grand scheme of things and is only valued by sentimentalists and the old guard who insist that life was better back then, when that is highly debatable at best and nostalgic ignorance at worst.

I'm not advocating destroying all of the old history of a city, but there is a place for them, (the museum or renovation) and the price of progress is worth it in the long term. Don't let nostalgia and sentimentalism cloud your way to progress.

Especially over here, no doubt that's being compromised to such a large extent that it's only a matter of time before it explodes into an all out war.

Exaggeration will get you nowhere. New York is in a better place now than it was in the 70's and 80's, and it's hard not to see what caused it, or at least one of the reasons for it. With gentrification, there is always going to be short term pain but a long term gain for everyone involved.


Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.

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Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 17:46:45


Dude NYC sounds awesome. I'm gonna call my Realtor.


Voice of Pipistrella in Pit People, Riley from Zonestream. Voice of Lily, Aurora and Lenora in Everwing

Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 17:47:42


At 7/10/14 04:52 PM, Lorkas wrote: I don't know what the world gentrification means, except from the word "gentry" which is sung in "married with children" intro theme. So what does the word mean. Explain to me in 2-3 sentences.

Yuppies are moving into poor neighborhoods and driving up rent prices.

Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 18:24:11


Although I like Gory's vision of his city, and I get how he's torn at the sight of one class being pushed out of areas for the benefit of another, I don't think there's a point in discussing this.

The only way you'd -really- be able to stop these changes would be through force, and we'd all know how that would go!

---

I wanna rant, too.

Recently, there were plans for a strip mall in my town, hoping to draw more traffic from New York (I live in CT)... They clear cut a big chunk of trees to build it...

Long story short, most all of the stores backed out, because the town's laws forbid the size buildings they were planning. Fine by me! Didn't want a strip mall, and didn't like the idea of even more traffic. Plus, hate New York drivers, as it is.

BUT, the damage was done. We now had a big, ugly, blank area, which used to be a cool little bit of woods with a path that led to a cemetery...

What they did with it, REALLY pisses me off.

Kohls and Big Lots moved in... Which is.. Whatever. But they wasted, SO much space. There are about 8 small empty buildings, which will NEVER be used because of their size. Two banks moved into the area with the two stores... Which makes a grand total of about 8 banks on that stretch of road! Plus, they're building another one. Oh joy.

And the rest of the blank space? Parking lot. Endless parking lot. They paved over every spot that wasn't used, and drew lines on it. Such a waste of space, and a great way to ruin a cool little spot..

If you looked at it on a map, or even in person, it probably wouldn't look too bad. But, knowing what it was before hand, and seeing all the empty space that's empty simply because... Because, ticks me off.


Life is a party.

You are not invited.

Response to Gentrification: Thoughts/Solutions? 2014-07-10 18:35:02


At 7/10/14 06:30 PM, Xenomit wrote:
At 7/10/14 12:20 PM, GoryBlizzard wrote: Crime crime crime crime crime crime crime. Why not bring those days back?
What. The. Fuck.

Oh, c'mon! We need some more inspiration for those cool, old-timey gangster flicks~


Life is a party.

You are not invited.