The discussion of neutral gender

[Chronamut]

Canada: Schools axe 'he' and 'she' in favour of 'xe':

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-27904621

so I do have a bit of an issue with this - not because I am close minded - because I am not - but because terms like xe, xer and xyr are still masculine neutral and feminine neutral - now it just points out even more how different these people are.

I realize that everything goes in this day and age. People are born feeling they are a man in a womans body, and vice versa. Some are both hermaphrodites, with both genitalia, and their parents have to choose which of the 2 to keep when its a baby, and sometimes they choose wrong..

but I find using terms to highlight it just showcases that those people aren't "normal" in their eyes. I can understand it must be confusing and uncomfortable for a trans person to identify with "male" or "female" and even more confusing for those around them to know what to identify them AS. I know a couple trans people and I caught myself calling them "he" because that is what they used to be, but no longer identify as . There are a couple of people here on newgrounds who are transgendered. I try not to step on peoples toes in that regard.

-----

saying that I want to know what you all think of this - not if you think transgendered is bad or good because people have the right to do and be whatever the fuck they want and noone wants to hear a pesons bigoted opinion about how a person cannot be who they want to be. I want to know what you all think about how to address transgendered people.

I for one would simply choose the neutral route and refer to them as an individual, leaving masculine or feminine out of it. Instead of saying "I talked to her last night" I'd simply say I talked to (insert name) last night. You don't have to use the terms male or female to address someone.

TL;dr: how would you choose to adress a transgender person that isn't offensive to them or potentially offensive, and if you are a transgendered person, is there a general term you would like to be addressed as that could be applied to all transgendered without being neutral masculine or neutral feminine (aka still alluding to one gender or the other)?

[WrightOnTarget]

How about just "They"?

[BlueReality]

I, myself personally find myself disgusted by these people.

On the other side of it, it's their choice, but they're playing God.

They should be called what people choose to call them, they chose what they want to be and if someone see's them as male or female they have every right to address them as what they wish.

If you want to be trans that's fine, I respect your choice completely but do not flaunt it, do not denounce god and do not make it your lifestyle. Do not trick a straight person to be with you -- In doing so you are destroying their trust and manipulating their love.

[Jin]

At least where I live people don't take offensive at a word every second sentence. I don't understand how some people could dedicate their whole life to being offended at a word of choice, instead of getting a hobby, or learning a skill, or being at least good at something other than whining.

[megagrounderx]

At 6/26/14 02:09 PM, WrightOnTarget wrote: How about just "They"?

they refers to a group of people. you cant use that in every given situation and still be anyway grammatically correct

[Phobotech]

I don't get how its pronounced. "Zee" or "Jee" kinda like "Jacque?"

It would only work if it were broadly universal. Straight male, straight female, gay male, gay female, trans, bi, asexual, pansexual, all being addressed in one way....but I agree by providing emphasis and giving them their own, weird means of addressing, its distracting.

[WrightOnTarget]

At 6/26/14 02:13 PM, megagrounderx wrote:

At 6/26/14 02:09 PM, WrightOnTarget wrote: How about just "They"?

they refers to a group of people. you cant use that in every given situation and still be anyway grammatically correct

No it doesn't. Not always.

How about people don't get so uptight about being called a man if they don't identify as a man? And just explain shit to people? And people don't get uptight when they don't identify as a man?

[Chronamut]

tbh I don't know if a term is needed at all.

In fact I see labels as BEING the problem - never do you HAVE to use the word he, she, her, or him. If you always simply bring up the person's name then you bypass the need to determine gender completely.

At the end of the day these people are just that - PEOPLE.

[WrightOnTarget]

At 6/26/14 02:17 PM, Chronamut wrote: tbh I don't know if a term is needed at all.

In fact I see labels as BEING the problem - never do you HAVE to use the word he, she, her, or him. If you always simply bring up the person's name then you bypass the need to determine gender completely.

At the end of the day these people are just that - PEOPLE.

Yeah. Pretty much.

[Piggler]

I vote for global use of schlim and schler as pronouns.

[WrightOnTarget]

Can I still use the term "Cocksucker" for any gender?

[Chronamut]

At 6/26/14 02:18 PM, WrightOnTarget wrote: Can I still use the term "Cocksucker" for any gender?

of course you can - if it fits in a hole, then it fits for the role :)

[Mismo]

We have something going on here Sweden that is sort of similar. Some feminist people came up the word "hen" (not to be confused with a chicken) which is subversion of the swedish words "han" (he/him) and hon (she/her).

A friend recently told me about a transgender person in her writing class. I don't remember if she said the person was a trans man or woman, but that's not the point but I'll come to that.

They were having a discussion about this word "hen" and asked whatever it was a good idea. Most said that it was and that it help in situations were a persons gender is not specified or is meant to be a secret (anonymous witness etc). However the trans person didn't agree and went on great lengths saying how it's wrong and a decrease to just change a language just like that (never mind the fact that languages changes constantly).

One think it weird for a trans person to not like the idea of gender neutral word. But I think they are the ones that should obviously be against it. They fight hard to be identified as either a woman or a man. Having to deal ignorant pricks calling them "it" or "that thing". So yeah I'm not suprised if a transgen person is against a gender neutral word since they really do want to be identify by gender.

But that's just what another white straight man has to say about it.

[WrightOnTarget]

At 6/26/14 02:35 PM, Mismo wrote: We have something going on here Sweden

Oh god, you're in Sweden?

I love that. I'd love to go to Sweden. My current favorite band, Sabaton, is from Sweden.

[TheGhostOfMarz]

At 6/26/14 02:08 PM, Chronamut wrote: Canada: Schools axe 'he' and 'she' in favour of 'xe':

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-27904621

so I do have a bit of an issue with this - not because I am close minded - because I am not - but because terms like xe, xer and xyr are still masculine neutral and feminine neutral - now it just points out even more how different these people are.

I realize that everything goes in this day and age. People are born feeling they are a man in a womans body, and vice versa. Some are both hermaphrodites, with both genitalia, and their parents have to choose which of the 2 to keep when its a baby, and sometimes they choose wrong..

but I find using terms to highlight it just showcases that those people aren't "normal" in their eyes. I can understand it must be confusing and uncomfortable for a trans person to identify with "male" or "female" and even more confusing for those around them to know what to identify them AS. I know a couple trans people and I caught myself calling them "he" because that is what they used to be, but no longer identify as . There are a couple of people here on newgrounds who are transgendered. I try not to step on peoples toes in that regard.

-----

saying that I want to know what you all think of this - not if you think transgendered is bad or good because people have the right to do and be whatever the fuck they want and noone wants to hear a pesons bigoted opinion about how a person cannot be who they want to be. I want to know what you all think about how to address transgendered people.

I for one would simply choose the neutral route and refer to them as an individual, leaving masculine or feminine out of it. Instead of saying "I talked to her last night" I'd simply say I talked to (insert name) last night. You don't have to use the terms male or female to address someone.

TL;dr: how would you choose to adress a transgender person that isn't offensive to them or potentially offensive, and if you are a transgendered person, is there a general term you would like to be addressed as that could be applied to all transgendered without being neutral masculine or neutral feminine (aka still alluding to one gender or the other)?

dude all you have to dude is just pick what they look like...then if they correct you use the other one....people forget too often that if i dress Extremely feminine(basically just like a girl) then its obvious that's what I am attempting to be at the moment...and more people forget that sexuality is a HUGE factor here assuming the way someone is dressed or acting has nothing to do with who they are is total bullshit...if i am acting really gay...there is a reason for that...stereotypes are not just funny things that magically appeared....they exist for a reason and its childish to assume that if someone acts or dresses a certain way does not mean anything....so if someone is displaying themselves as female then call them that....now if its a woman....if she is not like....you know...butch as FUCK then maybe refrain from using a term because woman are 1. a grey area in terms of androgynous appearance half of the time...and 2.are more easily offended by this type of shit...(debatable but i speak from experience..)

[Entice]

At 6/26/14 02:35 PM, Mismo wrote: One think it weird for a trans person to not like the idea of gender neutral word. But I think they are the ones that should obviously be against it. They fight hard to be identified as either a woman or a man. Having to deal ignorant pricks calling them "it" or "that thing". So yeah I'm not suprised if a transgen person is against a gender neutral word since they really do want to be identify by gender.

That's basically how I see it. One of my friends has the habit of using the word "heshe" and it makes me cringe every time.
Referring to people that way makes it sound like they're non-sexual, non-human entities.

[Chronamut]

it's all so confusing,.. it just seems like you're bound to offend someone no matter what you do.

[aListers]

At 6/26/14 02:13 PM, megagrounderx wrote:

At 6/26/14 02:09 PM, WrightOnTarget wrote: How about just "They"?

they refers to a group of people. you cant use that in every given situation and still be anyway grammatically correct

Well, the English language is always evolving. "They" and variations of it are quickly becoming alternatives to words such as "he" and "she." In the example that the OP used (I went to see her last night) the gender neutral alternative is "I went to see them last night." The ambiguity of the sentence helps the fact that it can be used as an alternative. Because it can mean anything; it does mean anything. Meaning that the context now matters.

People trying to suddenly invent new words is silly as they need wide adoption in the casual language to officially add the word to the English language. Nobody is going to use "xe" because it sounds silly. Trying to replace widely used words is also silly. "he" and "she" are words in the English language and, until they are replaced, they should be continued to be used. People should accept that the English language has evolved to get to the place it is today and will continue to evolve. "They" in place of "he" or "she" is an example of the constant evolution of the English language.

[WiiFittoToreinaa]

I'm gonna rise my son to be a girl.

[Scintillating]

At 6/26/14 02:13 PM, megagrounderx wrote:

At 6/26/14 02:09 PM, WrightOnTarget wrote: How about just "They"?

they refers to a group of people. you cant use that in every given situation and still be anyway grammatically correct

How about 'one', as in "one should do..."

How about:

'the student'
'the individual'
'persons'

Anything but xe, I mean way to shitting suck at coming up with words, whoever deserves credit for that.

[NeonSpider]

If anyone turned in a paper to me with usage of "xe" they would get a Xef. It's like an F except with an X in front. It would also count just like an F in terms of grading.

[Phobotech]

No, really, how is it supposed to be pronounced?

[NekoMika]

At 6/26/14 02:08 PM, Chronamut wrote:

TL;dr: how would you choose to adress a transgender person that isn't offensive to them or potentially offensive, and if you are a transgendered person, is there a general term you would like to be addressed as that could be applied to all transgendered without being neutral masculine or neutral feminine (aka still alluding to one gender or the other)?

I'd rather be addressed as the gender I see myself as and working on becoming which in this case is female. I think the least offensive thing you can do is just respect their simple wish of being addressed as the gender they see themselves as.

[Sensationalism]

Many cultures accept 3 genders. Male, female, and the transgender

But if I'm not mistaken, doesn't most everyone side with either being male or female? Even if a female has a male body to begin with, they would still want to go as "she". So I don't get the point of this.

[Sensationalism]

At 6/26/14 10:03 PM, Vnzi wrote:

At 6/26/14 09:53 PM, Sensationalism wrote: Many cultures accept 3 genders. Male, female, and the transgender

Transgender isn't a gender in it's self, really. It's more of a add-on to other genders, like "transgender female" and "ftm agendered"

I meant hermaphrodite I think. Brain lapse.

But if I'm not mistaken, doesn't most everyone side with either being male or female? Even if a female has a male body to begin with, they would still want to go as "she". So I don't get the point of this.

There are people who feel as if they don't fit with any gender, or some who feel female but also feel slightly boyish, or even people who feel like they are both at the same time.

I feel more "boyish" than "girlish" but know I have both and identify as female. People who don't even feel like either gender probably don't feel like much of anything ever.

I find a lot of the gender neutral words to be a bit silly, but hey I'll probably get over that.

yes.

[exudaz]

Canada? What's that?
OH! You mean America's hat.
JK...

On a serious note, I think we're going a little too far with this gender identity and political correctness stuff.
It's good to respect someone's personal choices, but we shouldn't have to go this far.

Male and Female bathrooms and gender labels have been just fine for millions of years. Let's not change the way out entire society works because a couple people might get offended.

[Satan]

I don't really care. Honestly, all this is going to do is upset homophobes, and traditionalists, and overcomplicate something that doesn't fucking need to be changed. I'm an open minded guy, but all this shit is going to do is cause confusion.

At 6/26/14 02:13 PM, InsectGadget wrote: I, myself personally find myself disgusted by these people.

Why?

On the other side of it, it's their choice, but they're playing God.

Oh, fuck off. The "playing God" argument is so 1800's.

They should be called what people choose to call them, they chose what they want to be and if someone see's them as male or female they have every right to address them as what they wish.

So you agree that a person who is born a male should have the right to decide that they want to be referred to as "she", and vice versa? If that is the case, I agree with you 100% in this respect.

If you want to be trans that's fine, I respect your choice completely but do not flaunt it, do not denounce god and do not make it your lifestyle.

Again, fuck off, stop living in the 1800's, the "do not denounce God" argument is about 200 years out of date. So what if someone wants to make being the opposite gender their lifestyle, it does not do anything to negatively impact your life in any way, shape, or form. You should stop trying to "play God" yourself, and quit interfering with other peoples lives.

Do not trick a straight person to be with you

Let me stop you right there. Most transgender people do not do this shit. I have no idea where this idea came from, it is a common mistake people often make, but it really is not the case.

In doing so you are destroying their trust and manipulating their love.

If someone DOES do that, then yes, I agree with you completely.

I can't tell whether you are pro-transgender, or not. You're confusing the fuck out of me here, dude.

[Satan]

At 6/27/14 12:29 AM, Vnzi wrote:

At 6/27/14 12:18 AM, Satan wrote: I can't tell whether you are pro-transgender, or not. You're confusing the fuck out of me here, dude.

That person is a well known troll, been showing us his attraction to Nazism and any sort of topic on gender or sexuality they come in with their bait, just check some of the topics in the politics forum.

Never really noticed him about. I'm too tired to give a shit whether it was bait or not, it gave me something to do. Cheers for letting me know though.

[NeonSpider]

At 6/26/14 10:07 PM, Sensationalism wrote: I feel more "boyish" than "girlish" but know I have both and identify as female. People who don't even feel like either gender probably don't feel like much of anything ever.

So, you are intersexed aka hermaphrodite? Penis and a vagina? Or some other intersex condition?

[yurgenburgen]

well all this xer/xe/xys stuff seems frivolous to me but if people want to go for it then I wish them all the best