what type of producer are you?
type 1. Hmm, i made a melody so now i'm just gonna find some good presets and see how it goes.
type 2. i have a melody, and i have a sound in my head, i'm just gonna use default setting and make my sound.
i think i'm type 1, it is hard to make sound that i want.
so what do you guys think?
I have literally over 10,000 presets or so at my disposal, so it's pretty rare that I need to make a new sound to get something that suits what I'm after.
Why make it from scratch when it's ready made for you?
I'll just tweak it as necessary.
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At 6/1/14 10:26 AM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: I have literally over 10,000 presets or so at my disposal, so it's pretty rare that I need to make a new sound to get something that suits what I'm after.
Why make it from scratch when it's ready made for you?
I'll just tweak it as necessary.
Thanks for replying!
But what I am asking is can you able to make sound that you're thinking of? Starting from default.
I'm primarily a composer who heavily uses orchestral instruments, and since in orchestral music you basically choose from a library of samples, whenever I need synths of some sort, I basically choose from a list of presets by habit. I'm not trained in the mindset of "oh I need <> sound, how do I make it", but rather I think like "oh I need <> sound, let's see if I can find it". That being said, I have a basic grasp of how to make synths in Sytrus, and when I need to make a simple sound (wind noise, an alarm, etc) I often synthesise those myself. I also often tweak and add a bunch of effects to presets I use.
At 6/1/14 10:26 AM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: I have literally over 10,000 presets or so at my disposal
I wonder where 8,000 of those came from.
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At 6/1/14 10:34 AM, Sawish wrote:At 6/1/14 10:26 AM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: I have literally over 10,000 presets or so at my disposal, so it's pretty rare that I need to make a new sound to get something that suits what I'm after.Thanks for replying!
Why make it from scratch when it's ready made for you?
I'll just tweak it as necessary.
But what I am asking is can you able to make sound that you're thinking of? Starting from default.
Of course, I still experiment with sound just to see what I can come up with. I still have a little trouble with rhythmic multilayered synths, but a lead, bass, pluck and most of the pad sounds I can think up, I can make from scratch.
At 6/1/14 11:09 AM, Step wrote: I wonder where 8,000 of those came from.
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I get more gratification from making all my synths from scratch. Its pretty rare to see a preset from me, but thats really just my preference. I see it as both more fun and skillful to create the sound you want rather than just thumbing through thousands of sounds somebody else made for you. Also its fair to say that many genres pride themselves on having unique sound design and developing your own sound. Lets also not forget that analog or vintage gear more or less requires you to be able to do this to effectively use it, and that has a place in music as well.
Even in the sampling world, with drums and other commonly used sample banks. If you have the skills and tools to just record it yourself, I find it much more gratifying and your sound will be more unique to you and your set up.
I suck at sound design, so I usually start with a preset and then tweak it a lot until it sounds the way I want. Sometimes I start from scratch and just mess around until I find something interesting though.
Both! In terms of production, I think of the destination instead of the journey. If a sound I need happens to already be available, then why not use it? Of course I'll tweak them a bit to put my own spin on it, but I don't really see anything wrong with using presets.
I do both. For example, with drums I start from scratch and build my kits. When it comes to synths I tend to start with a preset and modify it until it fits what I had in mind.
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At 6/1/14 11:31 AM, Breed wrote: If you have the skills and tools to just record it yourself, I find it much more gratifying and your sound will be more unique to you and your set up.
This is pretty key. You'll get your own sound more readily if you avoid premade content as much as possible, and the importance of having your own sound cannot be downplayed.
God knows I recognize Apple loops in media every time - and that's a case where even the average customer will recognize the premade content, not just other music makers. With synths, you're more likely to get past most consumers, but it's still not ideal if you had a sound in your mind and make too many compromises on that original vision.
The best thing for me I find is to find presets that are a good STARTING POINT, and work from there. This goes for everything, not just synth sounds - compressor settings, reverbs, other effect plugins, etc. I find something that is either geared towards what I want or sounds similar to what I want, then I tweak from there. You still get to make the sound that you were imagining, but cut down on time. Although, sometimes the preset is way off, and it ends up taking just as long or longer. There are no perfect roads to the best sound...
My problem with most preset libraries are they tend to be way more complex than what I'm looking for. I usually can just create exactly what I want faster. I really should make my own library of basic patches to start from to save myself time, but I'm too lazy.
Still they are useful to have around when I'm not sure what type of sound I want. I'll find something then tweak it to my needs.
I usually like to start from scratch when constructing guitar tones ( I have no experience with synths) mostly because it's easier to get a desired sound from the beginning of the creation process rather than building off of an already made preset and it's also easier to create a sound that will complement the other instruments within the piece.
Since a lot of ppl have already put in their two cents, I'll just say that I tend to primarily concentrate on the composition aspect of the piece and so when I need a synth, I prefer to tweak from presets for the sake of time. If I utilize synths in a piece, I'm not going to just have one, so having a synth created from scratch perhaps won't be that necessary for me if I were to fear familiarity.
As far as i'm concerned , if the music is good (define good at your own discretion), it doesn't matter if it's made from real/software instruments, presets, random/expert knob twiddling, samples, farts, if the track is played by a band, a computer or a monkey drummer...
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Me?
I started with presets, at one point, i got curious about how they were created, and now, I'm fond of creating my own patches. I would lie if i said no preset was hurt during the learning process.
I don't use them anymore, because sound design has become part of MY fun, also I have the luxury of "no deadlines", otherwise, i would probably look for presets first.
I like that i become more and more able to predict how a sound will sound :D if i turn knob X 30% to the right, things like that... Turning a simple beep into a living thing.
For drums, orchestral, bass guitars, things like that, i use romplers :)
Presets? Screw that noise. I steal all of my music from people with actual talent. Guarenteed sounds way better than anything I could make on my own :D
At 6/1/14 10:15 AM, Sawish wrote: what type of producer are you?
type 1. Hmm, i made a melody so now i'm just gonna find some good presets and see how it goes.
type 2. i have a melody, and i have a sound in my head, i'm just gonna use default setting and make my sound.
i think i'm type 1, it is hard to make sound that i want.
so what do you guys think?
Both, personally I love my own sounds more than others.
I mean why make music if you're not making your own instruments too right?
At 6/1/14 05:35 PM, Daru925 wrote:
I don't use them (presets) anymore, because sound design has become part of MY fun,
That's how I feel :)
The right effects on the mixer track can greatly improve any preset.
Learn to use effects more.
OP probably doesn't know how to recreate any of the presets either and uses preset elitism as a crutch for the fact that his tracks sound like shit
p.s. i am gay
While I usually try to make my synths from scratch just as a personal challenge to myself, I will use a preset as a starting point if a particular sound is far beyond my sound design capabilities. I have also used synth frequency analysis to lift the timbre of a particular synth and then embed it into my own.
Making synths is sound design, not musical composition. While an important aspect of electronic music, having good sound design skills does not inherently make you better than someone who can properly modulate from D minor to Eb minor and make a tritone sound good. They are simply different aspects of your music.
At 6/1/14 08:36 PM, midimachine wrote: OP probably doesn't know how to recreate any of the presets either and uses preset elitism as a crutch for the fact that his tracks sound like shit
Ouch. Midimachine, why you so mad? This thread is a classic. "Presets or not??" has been regurgitated so many times we could literally turn it into a drinking game but if you just want to shun the OP then by all means be my guest. I'm not a mod and I'm certainly not a role model... you know what? I hereby declare you the biggest diva on the NGAP and yes, I'm still mad at the fact that your track White Dwarf knocked me out of the NGADM three years ago. It's a shitty excuse for an IDM track if ever I heard one. You only won because you sing like an emo pop star.
ass hole.
At 6/1/14 10:37 PM, Quarl wrote:At 6/1/14 08:36 PM, midimachine wrote: OP probably doesn't know how to recreate any of the presets either and uses preset elitism as a crutch for the fact that his tracks sound like shitOuch. Midimachine, why you so mad? This thread is a classic. "Presets or not??" has been regurgitated so many times we could literally turn it into a drinking game but if you just want to shun the OP then by all means be my guest.
yeah i didn't actually read OP's post so i guess that was a bit of a knee jerk haha
i was thinking he was like "presets = no skill prove me wrong" instead of "hey who uses presets" (one of those things is a good discussion topic, guess which :v)
still, "skill vs presets"? bit of a loaded question! not to mention the eyebrow cocked smiley icon for the thread (which is why i hate the thread icons cause they set a precedent for the tone/intention of a thread before you actually read it :v)
p.s. i am gay
At 6/1/14 10:54 PM, midimachine wrote: Hey Quarl, I'm sorry your still angry about losing to my track White Dwarf all those years ago. If I could make it up to you in anyway I gladly would, but unfortunately you live all the way over there, and I live the way over here. Maybe in a parallel universe you and I are sitting together in a pub sharing a friendly pint or a cup of coffee, laughing at all the good times we've had but alas this is not that universe. Truly you are an inspiration and an incredible artist. Best friends forever??
Or at least that's what you SHOULD have wrote you big meanie >:C
I really wanted to end my post there but there's a rule in place where if the text you write is a sad percentage smaller than the quoted text you automatically fail and newgrounds laughs at you.
At 6/1/14 11:22 PM, Quarl wrote: Or at least that's what you SHOULD have wrote you big meanie >:C
all true tho :v
p.s. i am gay
I try to make as much of my own sounds as I can in my music. I just don't get excited when I'm just slapping presets on a melody, I need to make the entire sound or I get bored really quick. I make some exceptions for things like drum samples (I do make and use my own pretty often though) , pianos and pads from DSK Etheral Padz, but other than those things about 90% of my music is my own synthesis.
I can understand the reason for using presets though, some people are great at writing melodies but sound design just isn't their thing, or maybe you're a in a band that just wants some synth parts or whatever else, I don't think they're evil.
At 6/1/14 10:15 AM, Sawish wrote: what type of producer are you?
I'm definitely a mix of presets and making my own, I didn't get an actual good synth until a few weeks ago, and I'm still learning how to make certain things. I only use Sylenth so far until I get some money for some other stuff. But when I can't make the sound, I occasionally turn to presets, or sometimes some good samples. But recently I've been using a lot more of my own sounds. But I see nothing wrong with using primarily presets, especially when you modify them a lot.
Im getting better, I'll be famous one day.
At 6/1/14 05:32 PM, Cabbster wrote: im pretty sure the skill is not how you make a synth but how you use it.
This is a big topic at my work. Yes its true you dont have to invent the guitar to play it well, but I dont feel like designing your own synths is the same thing. The oscillators, envelopes, filters, and effects inside a synth are all functions of it in the same way guitarists tone knobs and volume and tubes and amp settings etc are. Knowing how to use the controls of a tool youre using to get the sound you want is indeed a skill, and not one to be thrown out by the illusion that youre somehow always having to go backwards and start from scratch with the very concept. We arent talking about building your own synths, just using the ones you have effectively.
Making a completely new sound that you have in your head requires some knowledge in sound design. I don't have that knowledge so mostly I use preset and tweak them a little.
I'm a sound designer and I honestly think the thread title/OP is not only misinformed, but needlessly inflammatory. A composer is someone who composes music. Whether they do their own sound design or not doesn't have anything to do with their skill, and anyone who thinks otherwise has to be doing so by standards that are unrelated to the point in question.
Knowing how to make your own sounds is a useful tool, but it's very silly to pretend it's a necessary part of creating music. You don't tell anyone to build their own piano.
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At 6/2/14 12:31 PM, Ryuno074 wrote: I'm a sound designer and I honestly think the thread title/OP is not only misinformed, but needlessly inflammatory.
At 6/2/14 04:49 AM, benjadaninja wrote: I think it's stupid when people judge you for using presets
I think neither of you guys read any of the thread. Nobody is slandering composers or producers. Also @benjadaninja somebody already made the same point as you and I already spoke to that point. That picture is extremely overused and while humorous it doesnt make any real points to the topic at hand.
Synthesis is largely misunderstood and like using any parameters for any effect or function in a production set up, DAW or otherwise, is a skill and is beneficial to know. Presets come in all shapes and sizes but in the long run everyone can benefit from knowing why theyre doing whatever they are doing whether its using compression, or setting an EQ, or mixing down your master track, creating your sounds, sequencing your own sounds, etc.
There is no argument over whether or not using a preset for any particular thing makes you bad at what youre doing, the difference is simply whether you know why you are or arent doing or using something, preset or otherwise.
Knowledge and application are both aspects of skill, and while yes you can achieve one without the other, theres no reason to disregard it.
