At 3/1/14 06:45 PM, CiviLies wrote:At 3/1/14 03:35 PM, NeonSpider wrote: But there is backing to American currency and also currency of other nations...At 3/1/14 06:30 PM, Feoric wrote: The full faith and credit of the United States Federal Government...Alright, the both have you some solid points that I didn't think about, so thank you for pointing all this out to me! I guess some of this should have just been common sense to me, though.
No, you're largely correct. The US is the lynchpin to a lot of other currencies; too many eggs in a paper basket. The worst case scenario is China and/or Japan cashing in all their US Treasury bonds... that will be the multi-trillion dollar straw that breaks the camels' back. Then the bankers will cry boo-hoo, and tell their minions (world governments) that they want to start a world bank, one currency to rule them all.
Now building Vault 101, reverse engineered from yesterdays technology.. or I could ignore it, and let you figure it out |:
At 3/1/14 09:05 PM, VicariousE wrote: No, you're largely correct. The US is the lynchpin to a lot of other currencies; too many eggs in a paper basket. The worst case scenario is China and/or Japan cashing in all their US Treasury bonds... that will be the multi-trillion dollar straw that breaks the camels' back. Then the bankers will cry boo-hoo, and tell their minions (world governments) that they want to start a world bank, one currency to rule them all.
You're right, that would be bad. Fortunately this is never going to happen -- Japan and China are the US' 4th and 2nd largest trading partners, respectively, and depend on a healthy strong dollar to keep those exports flowing to consumers.
Does everyone now know that bitcoin is obsolete now? Dude died, and bitcoin no longer exists. Bet yall wish you didn't put your eggs in one e-basket, huh? Srry for those of you who did, but I mean, c'mon, what'd you think'd happen?
At 3/1/14 10:02 PM, Feoric wrote:At 3/1/14 09:05 PM, VicariousE wrote: No, you're largely correct. The US is the lynchpin to a lot of other currencies; too many eggs in a paper basket. The worst case scenario is China and/or Japan cashing in all their US Treasury bonds... that will be the multi-trillion dollar straw that breaks the camels' back. Then the bankers will cry boo-hoo, and tell their minions (world governments) that they want to start a world bank, one currency to rule them all.You're right, that would be bad. Fortunately this is never going to happen -- Japan and China are the US' 4th and 2nd largest trading partners, respectively, and depend on a healthy strong dollar to keep those exports flowing to consumers.
I do hope you're right, because most of our wealth isn't in circulation, or held by 99% of the citizenry. It's the hoarders of money we have to worry about... they always want more of it, as well as control. If our government defaults, even a little (which *is* possible, considering the chained, poop eating dogs who run Washington), the momentum might be unstoppable. Some old folks have told me America feels like mid-1930's Germany, which is just awful.
Now building Vault 101, reverse engineered from yesterdays technology.. or I could ignore it, and let you figure it out |:
At 3/1/14 07:40 PM, Feoric wrote:At 3/1/14 06:33 PM, Stealth-Emergence wrote: About the same as any other currency, that's in its infancyAny real currency has a central power that backs it. To evaluate how strong or weak a given currency is, there are several analytical steps you can take to measure certain key criteria, which include (but is not limited to):
- economic forecasts (projected job growth, gdp growth, etc)
- the current and projected rates of inflation/deflation
- the state's money supply
- the state's credit rating
- bond/security yields and the overall health of other debt instruments
- central bank policy
Etcetera. Now, the thing I've been dying to know the past few years, is what are the fundamentals within bitcoin? And, more importantly, how does bitcoin share any sort of resemblance with currencies you can trade with on FOREX? What on earth does bitcoin have in common with anything on the global currency markets?
When you say "Real" currency, what exactly do you mean?
Do you mean "Fiat" currency?
Economic forecasts are definined by a huge number of factors, most of which dictated by the worlds stock exchanges, that combined with banks who set interest rates, etc... it's a very complicated set up
Current and projected rates of inflation/deflation, takes the above into account as well as GDP Plus takes into account employment/unemployment projections based on what is known for employment opportunities. as well as housing forecasts, borrowing/lending levels, etc... again lots of factors there's probably a lot more I haven't listed.
The State's money supply, if you understand the fundamentals of what "Fiat" currency is and realise that it isn't backed up by anything, other than debt you'll also see that it is little more than a gigantic ponsi scheme operated by the banking institutions with government collusion
state's credit rating again see point above.
I'll skip the last two points, as, it's all relative and mostly dictated by the banks and governments (to an extent)
the fundamentals about bitcoin!
Firstly, It's decentralised, it is run and controlled by all participants of it. No middle man, Point to Point transactions.
the way it shares resemblance, it's easier if you compare it to gold. It works in the same way gold does. It's a medium of exchange. "I'll give you this gold coin for your pet donkey" etc...
It has some commonalities, those of which are obvious.
the differences however, it is proving resilient, despite all these problems. It's had many in its short existence and it is still here.
It can not be counterfeited (This is one of its biggest advantages)
I'm sure I've missed some points, will reiterate later if that's the case
As of november last year, investing in bitcoin is pointless.
At 3/2/14 05:30 AM, Stealth-Emergence wrote: The State's money supply, if you understand the fundamentals of what "Fiat" currency is and realise that it isn't backed up by anything, other than debt you'll also see that it is little more than a gigantic ponsi scheme operated by the banking institutions with government collusion
Well, no, you don't know what you're talking about. Fiat is backed by something, and I just explained what it is. I'm going to go ahead and assume you're talking about a commodity standard, where each bill must be redeemable, or backed by the market value of a specific commodity -- namely gold and silver. The gold standard is a very stable monetary base, which can be easily coordinated, valued, and traded internationally without very many problems -- that is, when the growth rate of the gold supply is near the economic growth rate, and you do not face persistent trade deficits (spoiler: this does not happen in the real world). If you don't need, or want, discretionary control over the money supply or interest rates, then the gold standard can work quite well (spoiler: this also does not happen in the real world). In the real world what we had in the US up until the 70s was not a true gold standard. We still had fiat money, only it was backed by gold. A true gold standard creates notes as promissory for set weights of gold. This is unlike a currency regime wherein the government can set the value of notes on a variable basis. It turns out this was a relatively shitty way to enact monetary policy -- namely fighting and in some instances flat out avoiding recessions -- which is why we got rid of it.
As for fiat being a "ponzi scheme," this statement makes literally no sense at all. A ponzi scheme is a business model that exists only to convince other people to join the business model while shuffling new capital to the top and existing capital to the bottom.
Firstly, It's decentralised, it is run and controlled by all participants of it. No middle man, Point to Point transactions.
the way it shares resemblance, it's easier if you compare it to gold. It works in the same way gold does. It's a medium of exchange. "I'll give you this gold coin for your pet donkey" etc...
It has some commonalities, those of which are obvious.
the differences however, it is proving resilient, despite all these problems. It's had many in its short existence and it is still here.
It can not be counterfeited (This is one of its biggest advantages)
These aren't economic fundamentals that you can measure as an economist. You're merely describing what kind of system it is. I don't care about that. I want to know what specific fundamental economic variables affect the price of bitcoin? How can investors go about analyzing the market to find out they're getting a fair market price? If bitcoin is infact decentralized and its price is agreed upon merely by its participants, then how is that not essentially fiat? It must follow then that bitcoins have no intrinsic value, and are merely assigned such arbitrarily on the exchanges by people who just happen to agree with each other.
Bitch, BTC can't and won't die (Still lingering around $500-$600)
At 3/2/14 01:08 PM, Feoric wrote: stuff
Fiat currency is no longer backed by gold, it is on back by debt!
At 3/2/14 01:16 PM, Stealth-Emergence wrote: Fiat currency is no longer backed by gold, it is on back by debt!
Oh, alright, you can completely ignore everything I said, I guess.
At 3/2/14 01:43 PM, Feoric wrote:At 3/2/14 01:16 PM, Stealth-Emergence wrote: Fiat currency is no longer backed by gold, it is on back by debt!Oh, alright, you can completely ignore everything I said, I guess.
Indeed!
did you make any valid points?
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