Morality, Good and Evil

[Clamstuffer]

Such bullshit.

This person is GOOD because he had a predisposition and/or upbringing (neither of which he/she chose) that determined they would have a sense of fulfillment from doing GOOD.

But this person is EVIL because blah blah blah the-same-exact-sentence blah blah blah EVIL.

Oh but as long as they're SORRY that makes it a little better right? I mean what the fuck does SORRY even mean other than "I wish I had not done that thing that was bad for my own self-interest because it would be better for me if I hadn't."

I mean there is no real distinction to any of it. It's all the same. We're all pursuing our own self-interest for our own biological self-preservation in whatever way we are wired to do that same as every fucking organism in existence. It's all bullshit.

(Also I'm not saying people shouldn't be punished or accountable for their own actions at all, because they need to be, because again, that preserves our self-interest as a society [which in turn preserves my own self-interest]. Nor am I saying "everybody is just selfish" or some shit like that because everybody can't be selfish if nobody is unselfish; I'm just talking about the perfectly normal evolutionary response of sustaining your own ass if you want to be a thing that is a thing.)

[scatterheadnine]

You can only be good if you believe in God.

[ZeroAsALimit]

Morality and immorality is a separate dichotomy to good and evil and different once again to right and wrong.

Morals and the opposite are about the adherence to one value system and the gauging of someone who does not adhere to it.
Good and bad are a specific version of the above. Good comes from the Old English word god, which comes from old Saxon. It is, by nature of the evolution of the word, the Christian specific system of morality.
Right and wrong are what is prudent and what is not.

Now, being sorry does not change the immorality of an action, if you deem it to be so. It also does not change an action from bad to good. However, it does change someone from being bad to good,while not immoral to moral.

For example, Nelson Mandela was SORRY that he killed civilians. To a Christian, he has seen what he has done is wrong and he has moved on. Possibly most importantly to a Christian, he became one himself, bringing himself into their system and taking on their view of how and why what he did was wrong.

It is always bad to kill someone. It is more often than not imprudent to do so. It is much rarer immoral to kill.

[Clamstuffer]

At 2/18/14 05:25 AM, ZeroAsALimit wrote: Morality and immorality is a separate dichotomy to good and evil and different once again to right and wrong.

You're just defining words. Also your paragraph looks like it is three dimensional and rows of words keep moving in and out. Either I'm having an acid flashback or I have stayed up for too long.

[Mismo]

Mortality, good and evil are fabricated constructs made up by different consensuses people have.

[HappyWhaleStudios]

What you're saying kind of sounds like predestination, I don't know of anyone who still believes that.

[Sense-Offender]

At 2/18/14 05:01 AM, scatterheadnine wrote: You can only be good if you believe in God.

Only if you believe in the correct one, though.

[CiviLies]

Well, I guess since it's all bullshit no sense in me keeping in line with these constructs. They obviously have no intrinsic worth or value whatsoever. No logical reason I should stick to them.

[Insanctuary]

At 2/18/14 08:04 PM, CiviLies wrote: Well, I guess since it's all bullshit no sense in me keeping in line with these constructs. They obviously have no intrinsic worth or value whatsoever. No logical reason I should stick to them.

^ This is exactly why sociopaths are attracted to science and not religion.

[SolXeroEraser]

At 2/18/14 04:58 AM, Clamstuffer wrote: I mean there is no real distinction to any of it. It's all the same. We're all pursuing our own self-interest for our own biological self-preservation in whatever way we are wired ame as every fucking organism in existence. It's all bullshit.

Aint it?

[WallofYawn]

You're right, although that doesn't mean ethics and morals are not important or without value.

You can think they're bullshit all you want, and it may be, but that won't get you very far in life, or work, because Human Relations, is basically the cornerstone by which all business policies are essentially derived, and understanding ethics and morals of others will help you better perform, work with others, and develop self esteem.

Speaking from experience, although good and evil do not physically exist, acknowledging the status quo/norm
(which doing so does NOT make you a conformist, just realistic and logical) and what people think is right/wrong is VERY important. Even if you don't think so.

And by your logic, because morals and ethics are pointless, democracy is pointless by proxy, and we should just disregard what society as a whole thinks or views as right and wrong, evil or good, and turn to anarchy.

Why don't we? Because it doesn't work.

And furthermore, everyone has morals and ethics, even those who don't believe in them, like you and I. You would be lying your ass off if you claim to have never been FOR or AGAINST anything. There are things which even you and I consider right and that which we consider wrong.

It's what separates us from Sociopaths, Psychopaths, and Republicans. ;) (srry, couldnt help but sneak that one in there as a joke)

[Insanctuary]

I like how people pick and choose which illusions benefit them, like "Oh, this illusions contains emotions, let's completely neglect that and go after another illusion, such as love". It's a double standard. People only ignore emotion to avoid accountability and responsibility, because one thing people hate, is being responsible -- but they sure love being important.

[Insanctuary]

At 2/18/14 08:39 PM, WallofYawn wrote: It's what separates us from Sociopaths, Psychopaths, and Republicans. ;) (srry, couldnt help but sneak that one in there as a joke)

Let me take you to a place where somebody is being executed. *warps* You are now here. I want you to look into the crowd, and tell me what type is jeering at the prisoner. The empath? Or the sociopath?

[WallofYawn]

Sorry, I missed the end of your text completely:

Ok, so now basically what you're describing is Determinism, whereby all choices are based on pre-wired, or experiential experience.(ie. we like ice cream, because we ate ice cream once and liked it, we like it because genetically we are drawn to sweets(not all, just this case) and we like chocolate because we had chocolate, but hate vanilla cause - well, you get the point)

In other words, free will is non-existent, and we are only the sum of our DNA and experiences, which dictate what we can or cannot do, accordingly, without our will coming into play at all. We are nothing more then organisms reacting to stimulai, and forming opinions based on said stimulae and only said stimulae.

Not sure I agree with it at all, not a big fan of nihilistic philosophies, but to each their own.

[WallofYawn]

At 2/18/14 08:43 PM, Insanctuary wrote:

At 2/18/14 08:39 PM, WallofYawn wrote: It's what separates us from Sociopaths, Psychopaths, and Republicans. ;) (srry, couldnt help but sneak that one in there as a joke)

Let me take you to a place where somebody is being executed. *warps* You are now here. I want you to look into the crowd, and tell me what type is jeering at the prisoner. The empath? Or the sociopath?

Interesting. Probably the victem would be the one jeering. The Sociopath would be the person being executed most likely.(or probably not, cause if you're being executed its mostly for psychopathic, not sociopathic, crimes, but there are exceptions)

[Lemonardo]

From the Soviet Union's Perspective:
Stalin is GOOD because all workers live in harmony in one single class, and are all equally treated as members of the proletariat, all with the combined goal of sustaining the Communist state and nothing more.
Hitler is BAD because he is our enemy and is taking territories containing Russian-blooded peoples that must live under Communism. Plus, he allows some capitalism in his economy with classes still existing and civilians having opportunities to start businesses and earn more than others.

From the German Reich's Perspective.
Hitler is GOOD because all people live in unity and harmony regardless of class with the combined goal of restoring the beauty and dignity of the German people.
Stalin is BAD because he gained his power along with all of the other Judeo-Communists such as Trotsky and Lenin through the manipulation of the people he was supposed to be equal with. Also, he starves his workers and treats all of his people as though workers of one great State Capitalist business, in which Stalin can make as much money for himself as possible, such is the way of the Jew.

Morality cannot be taught in the fashion it is currently taught in. Currently, the peoples a nation has beaten will be taught about to children as though they were the spawn of the Devil themselves, and history itself will be falsified or exaggerated to achieve that. Peoples a nation has lost to, such as the US to the Vietnamese, however, will only be minimally mentioned in history, more often than not almost completely swept under the rug as though it never happened.

[Insanctuary]

At 2/18/14 08:47 PM, WallofYawn wrote: Interesting. Probably the victem would be the one jeering. The Sociopath would be the person being executed most likely.(or probably not, cause if you're being executed its mostly for psychopathic, not sociopathic, crimes, but there are exceptions)

No, no. The crowd consists of empaths and sociopaths. The ones that jeer are empaths. The sociopaths are able to recognize us as human beings no matter how much we've turned into an animal. What does this tell you about sociopaths and empaths -- the very nature that advocates their interactions with the world?

[Clamstuffer]

At 2/18/14 11:55 AM, HappyWhaleStudios wrote: What you're saying kind of sounds like predestination, I don't know of anyone who still believes that.

I'm not saying everything is predetermined, but if you think you somehow had anything to do with choosing your genetics and the circumstances you were born into that is pretty stupid.

[Clamstuffer]

At 2/18/14 08:39 PM, WallofYawn wrote: You're right, although that doesn't mean ethics and morals are not important or without value.

Not by my logic. I went so far as explaining just that in the OP which you obviously didn't bother reading all the way. I said society's rules are functional and shit like that. Quit jumping the gun.

[DarkMatter]

I don't care how shitty your childhood was, you do something bad it's still bad, maybe even understandable but still bad.

[Lagerkapo]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH you have no idea what you're talking about you stupid clamstuffer;

Ideology is a purely subjective form

Truth is purely idological

And why don't you, hidden rhetorical fool, have anything to do with you foolishness?

[CiviLies]

At 2/18/14 08:16 PM, Insanctuary wrote:

At 2/18/14 08:04 PM, CiviLies wrote: Well, I guess since it's all bullshit no sense in me keeping in line with these constructs. They obviously have no intrinsic worth or value whatsoever. No logical reason I should stick to them.

^ This is exactly why sociopaths are attracted to science and not religion.

But with religion it's easy to fake morality in order to manipulate people into believing what you want them to believe.
Examples: Jim Jones and Joshua Milton Blahyi. The way I see it, a sociopath is attracted to usually one thing: Power. Whether it's through studying religion or science, if he can obtain the power he seeks, then he will. Because a sociopath is not bound by morality, manipulating people through religion would be the same to him/her as manipulating people through science.

[WiiFittoToreinaa]

At 2/18/14 05:01 AM, scatterheadnine wrote: You can only be good if you do good things.

Fixed.

[HappyWhaleStudios]

At 2/18/14 11:21 PM, Clamstuffer wrote: I'm not saying everything is predetermined, but if you think you somehow had anything to do with choosing your genetics and the circumstances you were born into that is pretty stupid.

Oh ok. Yeah, I can agree on that. That's just nonsensical.

[Kwing]

Oh hey Clam. You should really read an article on cynicism and the Greek cynics - you're not the first person to have these thoughts.

[Clamstuffer]

At 2/19/14 08:52 AM, Kwing wrote: Oh hey Clam. You should really read an article on cynicism and the Greek cynics - you're not the first person to have these thoughts.

Yeah obviously because I am right and anyone who is smart gets it. Alright, now record a rap about it and talk about how lago taco baby or whatever licks my butt.

Anyway the room is spinning right now and I'm about to pass out. It's like, you know, say I totally want to fuck my sister-in-law but "OH NO THAT IS NOT SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE!" and people who don't want to fuck their sister-in-laws are good people. They're not. They're just fortunate. Because I totally want to do that but it isn't like I sat down and decided that or something. I just do. It's just like Apple Jacks don't taste like apple but we eat what we like you know? I mean whatever. Like I already explained it so even a little taco baby could understand it and if you don't understand it you're just gay.

[Maltos]

Good and Evil are always a point of view, they have no real meaning they are just words.

[Greenskullkid]

At 2/18/14 05:31 AM, Clamstuffer wrote:

You're just defining words. Also your paragraph looks like it is three dimensional and rows of words keep moving in and out. Either I'm having an acid flashback or I have stayed up for too long.

nice post, i liked it.

[Clamstuffer]

At 2/20/14 01:12 AM, Greenskullkid wrote:

At 2/18/14 05:31 AM, Clamstuffer wrote:

You're just defining words. Also your paragraph looks like it is three dimensional and rows of words keep moving in and out. Either I'm having an acid flashback or I have stayed up for too long.

nice post, i liked it.

I know huh.