Aaron Mcgruder's Take On Mlk?

[Korriken]

Boondocks - MLK speech

This is about what I was thinking myself if MLK was alive today. I wouldn't figure he would be so gruff about it, but it sums it up nicely.

Before someone go throwing around the race card, Aaron McGruder is black.

[Camarohusky]

Not able to hear sound right now, can you sum it up in text please?

[Korriken]

At 1/20/14 09:16 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Not able to hear sound right now, can you sum it up in text please?

Here you go.

[Feoric]

At 1/20/14 08:57 PM, Korriken wrote: Before someone go throwing around the race card, Aaron McGruder is black.

Oh, well in that case I guess he's right.

[leanlifter1]

At 1/20/14 08:57 PM, Korriken wrote: Boondocks - MLK speech

This is about what I was thinking myself if MLK was alive today. I wouldn't figure he would be so gruff about it, but it sums it up nicely.

Before someone go throwing around the race card, Aaron McGruder is black.

What does black have to do with anything. Your bribing it up demeans the Black public and gives them special interest. Affirmative Action is Bollocks !

[Entice]

So basically the message is: none of the civil rights advancements of the last forty years matter because some (or all/most as the lyrics seem to suggest) black people are worthless niqqas, and you agree because the person who wrote it was black and thinks BET is a good representation of what black people in general are like.

okay

[leanlifter1]

At 1/20/14 10:22 PM, Entice wrote: So basically the message is: none of the civil rights advancements of the last forty years matter because some (or all/most as the lyrics seem to suggest) black people are worthless niqqas, and you agree because the person who wrote it was black and thinks BET is a good representation of what black people in general are like.

okay

The notion that you would even entertain the fact that your Government has to re give people their inherent rights back is laughable at best.

[Entice]

At 1/20/14 10:26 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: The notion that you would even entertain the fact that your Government has to re give people their inherent rights back is laughable at best.

Unless there was another group of people that worked to take them away

[Feoric]

The Boondocks is an animated comedy show on Adult Swim. Just keep that in mind.

[leanlifter1]

At 1/20/14 10:36 PM, Entice wrote:

At 1/20/14 10:26 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: The notion that you would even entertain the fact that your Government has to re give people their inherent rights back is laughable at best.

Unless there was another group of people that worked to take them away

Yes and you can call them statists.

[NightmareWitch]

At 1/20/14 10:48 PM, Feoric wrote: The Boondocks is an animated comedy show on Adult Swim. Just keep that in mind.

I also like Squidbillies because they are a good representation of white southerners.

[Warforger]

At 1/20/14 08:57 PM, Korriken wrote: This is about what I was thinking myself if MLK was alive today. I wouldn't figure he would be so gruff about it, but it sums it up nicely.

I don't think he would care because hip hop culture is not every black person. As it stands ever since the 60's the quality of life for blacks has improved, more blacks entered higher paying jobs and got into higher places in society. This to me just sounds like those people who hate rap and then use people like MLK to say he would hate it.

Before someone go throwing around the race card, Aaron McGruder is black.

Oh the fabled race card, one of the tools of torture used in the imaginary persecution of Conservatives.

[LazyDrunk]

At 1/21/14 01:29 AM, Warforger wrote: Oh the fabled race card, one of the tools of torture used in the imaginary persecution of Conservatives.

Child, once you start paying taxes you'll realize what the true persecution of conservatives really is.

[Korriken]

At 1/21/14 01:29 AM, Warforger wrote:

I don't think he would care because hip hop culture is not every black person. As it stands ever since the 60's the quality of life for blacks has improved, more blacks entered higher paying jobs and got into higher places in society. This to me just sounds like those people who hate rap and then use people like MLK to say he would hate it.

As much as i would like to answer this, I'm not sure if I can put it in small enough words for you to understand. I suppose I can try anyway.

Rap and such music tend to glorify violence, drug use, drug dealing, gang violence, and other illegal and self destructive activity. Are you going to tell me MLK would not condemn people for glorifying self destructive behavior after his hard, long fight to try and bring his people up from the bottom rungs of society? Today's civil rights 'leaders' may not have the stomach, or the inclination to get off their throne of money to try and speak against those who poison the minds of their kind, but I think King had more drive than his hangers on.

Oh the fabled race card, one of the tools of torture used in the imaginary persecution of Conservatives.

Funny, you're so well programmed that you jump straight into the "imaginary persecution of________" mode. I almost pity you.... Almost.

[lapis]

I agree with Korriken.

I think it's fair to say that King primarily fought for the social elevation of black people, to put them on an equal footing with whites. In King's days, the by far greatest obstacle to that elevation was racism and racist institutions. I think that the point that McGruder is trying to make is that it would displease King to see that, these days, supposed representatives of blacks and black culture (like BET) seem to have lost interest in elevation. It would be ironic for him to see that after fighting for the freedom of black students to go to universities, mainstream black culture is rife with people taking pride in ignorance.

Pointing out that McGruder is black is relevant because it avoids being accused of white racist triumphalism. The fact that The Boondocks is an animated series also doesn't matter: South Park has added to the debate on, for example, Scientology. The Daily Show might have a higher cock-joke-to-serious-point ratio than The Boondocks, or is that also not to be taken seriously because it's satire (although I've seen Jon Stewart use this as an excuse to avoid taking responsibility for his show's impact)?

[Entice]

At 1/22/14 08:45 AM, Korriken wrote: Rap and such music tend to glorify violence, drug use, drug dealing, gang violence, and other illegal and self destructive activity.

Only if you're talking about gangsta rap specifically, which hasn't been the big subgenre since the 90s. Hip hop is a huge genre.

That and neither rap nor antisocial lyrics are limited to the black community. Hell, drinking is glorified in a lot of mainstream pop and country music.

Are you going to tell me MLK would not condemn people for glorifying self destructive behavior after his hard, long fight to try and bring his people up from the bottom rungs of society?

No, but do you know what he wouldn't do?

Say that the black community is failing now (how else could you interpret those lyrics?), using something as minor as gangsta rap as an example. Read Warforger's example: "As it stands ever since the 60's the quality of life for blacks has improved, more blacks entered higher paying jobs and got into higher places in society."

If he was alive now, I think he'd love the improvements he saw and work on them rather than spending time deriding a type of music as if it were the biggest societal ill to ever exist.

speak against those who poison the minds of their kind

Listening to Ice Cube turns you into a gangster as much as stealing cars in GTA turns you a car thief. The sort of media you're talking about is a result, not a cause.

[Feoric]

At 1/22/14 09:18 AM, lapis wrote: Pointing out that McGruder is black is relevant because it avoids being accused of white racist triumphalism.

That's the attempt, but I've always read it as bigotry by proxy because that's usually what it is. It's pretty apparent once you've seen it enough times over and over again. It's a classic move taken straight from the southern strategy playbook.

[Camarohusky]

At 1/22/14 11:05 AM, Entice wrote:

speak against those who poison the minds of their kind

Listening to Ice Cube turns you into a gangster as much as stealing cars in GTA turns you a car thief. The sort of media you're talking about is a result, not a cause.

But no one sees GTA as a role model. Musicians are often referred to as role models. Especially in poor communities where 99% of the community never leaves. Seeing that one guy who made it big and left has a huge effect on the youth in such areas.

I would actually conjecture that the speech by McGruder is hugely lacking. Yes, I do agree that MLK would strongly agree that in order to break free of their chains the black community must act the part. He would likely agree that the culture of violence and ignorance that plagues many black communities i nothing but harmful to black people as a whole. However, I don't see that as the main point of a current speech he would make. His main point would likely stress the issues of white flight, access to education, ad the public perception of the race. He would likely stress that while discrimination and segregation are no longer de jure, de factio racism and segregation remain rampant.

On a separate note, I do find those who focus solely on the self-degredation of black culture to either be racist or lacking in full perspective. There is a HUGE poor white culture. Yet I don't see anyone bashing them for hurting white people. I'd venture to say that there are more white trailer trash and proud people than there are of the culture the speech targets. Just look at the TV, we've got Honey BooBoo, Duck Dynasty, Ax Men, Swamp People, Larry the Cable Guy, the white version of the Dirty Souf, not to mention the hilbilly crowd and such. They promote the same sort of self depricating attitudes that the gangster rap culture does.

This seems to me like a bit of racial tergetting here.

[Entice]

At 1/22/14 11:33 AM, Camarohusky wrote: But no one sees GTA as a role model. Musicians are often referred to as role models. Especially in poor communities where 99% of the community never leaves. Seeing that one guy who made it big and left has a huge effect on the youth in such areas.

I'll have to agree, that wasn't a good example.

Still, those lyrics are an exaggeration of what was already happening in these communities before the genre even existed. At worst, I'd say it plays a relatively small role in perpetuating the mentality. Of the multitude of factors that contribute to poverty and crime, no kind of music is enemy #1.

Rap is disproportionately vilified.

[Korriken]

At 1/22/14 11:05 AM, Entice wrote:

Only if you're talking about gangsta rap specifically, which hasn't been the big subgenre since the 90s. Hip hop is a huge genre.

Perhaps, but then you have the glorification of other self destructive habits, like promiscuity, which is so incredibly prevalent in our society.

That and neither rap nor antisocial lyrics are limited to the black community. Hell, drinking is glorified in a lot of mainstream pop and country music.

True, and he'd probably rail against that too.

No, but do you know what he wouldn't do?

Say that the black community is failing now (how else could you interpret those lyrics?), using something as minor as gangsta rap as an example. Read Warforger's example: "As it stands ever since the 60's the quality of life for blacks has improved, more blacks entered higher paying jobs and got into higher places in society."

Maybe, but they still lag behind whites in almost every way, except crime rate, out of wedlock birth rate, and unemployment rate. Oddly enough, today's civil rights "leaders" refuse to touch on anything but "White man keeping us down!" Why? There is a reason for this. It all has to do with keeping notions planted in other peoples' heads. I'll explain using a theory of mine that has to do with how corporate music is made.

If he was alive now, I think he'd love the improvements he saw and work on them rather than spending time deriding a type of music as if it were the biggest societal ill to ever exist.

I'm not so sure about that, myself. sure, he would try to build on the successes that have been had, but if he was the man the legend makes him out to be, then he would also be working towards fixing various problems in black culture, problems that hold people back more than the big evil white man can.

Listening to Ice Cube turns you into a gangster as much as stealing cars in GTA turns you a car thief. The sort of media you're talking about is a result, not a cause.

Impressionable minds are easily warped. Also, I have seen more than enough people trying to live various fantasy lives (gangsta, cowboy, etc) and watched how these people would literally change year to year and realize that the changes they made to their lives were literally matching up to changing with the memes used in music.

Have you ever noticed that some things, various phrases and concepts keep popping up in music? For example, If you were to listen to enough of that dreadful "new country" "music", you hear certain concepts, like women knowing all the lyrics to various country music songs. This appears time after time. Why? I'll get into that in another topic, but it has to do with implanting notions in your head. I'm forced to listen to this crap enough at work that I began picking up on this. You get enough of these big stars to all talk about the same thing and the dullards that listen to their music get notions implanted in their heads.

The same thing happens with today's "civil rights" movement, which has less to do with attaining equality and more to do with lining the pockets of a group of people who have hijacked the movement and used to to amass their fortunes. There is a reason why these 'leaders' never speak of rampant black promiscuity and black on black crime. It doesn't pay the bills.

Also, the 'civil rights' movement is also one of those things that if it ever DOES succeed, those involved in these groups, like the NAACP will be out of a job. Instead they BENEFIT from holding the black man down themselves so they can continue to thrive and make money by screaming "RACISM!" every chance they get, which brings in the dough in the form of donations, while never addressing the core cause of the problem.

'Civil rights' groups are like doctors who push pills on your child by claiming they have ADHD when your child is just a spoiled brat who needs some discipline, or your child is actually very smart, mastered the curriculum already, and is bored in school.

[Ron-Geno]

King would be much more concerned with how different "classes" in the U.S. were treated.

Race is a smaller issue than the battle between the have and have-nots; King understood this later in his campaign, as he started fighting for those of low-income and the poor (of all ethnic backgrounds, including white).

[Korriken]

At 1/22/14 11:33 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

On a separate note, I do find those who focus solely on the self-degredation of black culture to either be racist or lacking in full perspective. There is a HUGE poor white culture. Yet I don't see anyone bashing them for hurting white people.

You also don't hear white people screaming and ranting about being held down either. White groups don't have mouthpieces yelling how the system must change to accomodate them. It's a simple fact that most of these people put themselves and their children in their position. you work 9-5 and hire some teenager to watch your children so you can go boozing all night, then complain that you got no money. Anyone will tell you that you need to change your ways in order to rise up in the world.

I'd venture to say that there are more white trailer trash and proud people than there are of the culture the speech targets. Just look at the TV, we've got Honey BooBoo, Duck Dynasty, Ax Men, Swamp People, Larry the Cable Guy, the white version of the Dirty Souf, not to mention the hilbilly crowd and such. They promote the same sort of self depricating attitudes that the gangster rap culture does.

I agree with that actually. Of course, ALL reality tv is trash and i believe no one should watch any of it. Problem is we have such a drama addicted society that people can't help but watch it.

This seems to me like a bit of racial tergetting here.

Perceive it as you will.

[Warforger]

At 1/21/14 07:01 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: Child, once you start paying taxes you'll realize what the true persecution of conservatives really is.

Oh no, we have to pay historically low tax rates and deal with Keynesian economics which preaches lowering taxes during a recession. Oh but those Socialists in the White House attempt to raise the tax rate on the top brackets by 4-5%, still lower than the rates of Reagans years. Oh no what persecution that they have to pay the same taxes as everyone else, they should pay lower taxes 'cause they're Conservatives.

At 1/22/14 08:45 AM, Korriken wrote: As much as i would like to answer this, I'm not sure if I can put it in small enough words for you to understand. I suppose I can try anyway.

Rap and such music tend to glorify violence, drug use, drug dealing, gang violence, and other illegal and self destructive activity. Are you going to tell me MLK would not condemn people for glorifying self destructive behavior after his hard, long fight to try and bring his people up from the bottom rungs of society?

I don't know, would he condemn metal music which glorifies violence as supporting war and school shootings? Would he have condemned action movies for the same thing? Rap has violence, but it's that kind of violence that nobody takes seriously and is increasingly becoming less violent. Unless you can provide some sort of study which links the two and proves a causation that rap music causes gang culture then you're not going to convince me.

Today's civil rights 'leaders' may not have the stomach, or the inclination to get off their throne of money to try and speak against those who poison the minds of their kind, but I think King had more drive than his hangers on.

Except King was not the only Civil Rights Leader, others have survived and live on, Jesse Jackson, Marion Barry, up until recently Rosa Parks etc.. The only one that attacked hip hop was Jesse Jackson but that was sort of indirect because he was trying to ban the N-word.

Funny, you're so well programmed that you jump straight into the "imaginary persecution of________" mode. I almost pity you.... Almost.

Already your connotative language reveals your massive bias. I'm "programmed", interesting adjective for people who don't agree with you.

I'll believe Conservatives are being persecuted when they stop attacking everyone who has an abortion and push some of them to kill themselves.

[Korriken]

At 1/22/14 08:54 PM, Warforger wrote: Rap has violence, but it's that kind of violence that nobody takes seriously.

Given how many rappers end up being murdered, compared to other genres, I'd say someone's taking it seriously. They promote a fantasy lifestyle and apparently try to live it themselves and end up getting shot by other thug wannabes.

Unless you can provide some sort of study which links the two and proves a causation that rap music causes gang culture then you're not going to convince me.

Even if I did, you'd just dismiss it, so I'm not going to bother.

Except King was not the only Civil Rights Leader, others have survived and live on,
Jesse Jackson,

a pig and a scoundrel who is only in it for the fame and attention.

Marion Barry,

This guy's a criminal, not to mention racist against Asians. I especially love this phrase, We've got to do something about these Asians coming in, opening up businesses, those dirty shops. They ought to go, I'll just say that right now, you know. But we need African-American businesspeople to be able to take their places, too."

Really? We need to get rid of the Asian shops to let the African Americans take their place? This isn't Zimbabwe.

The only one that attacked hip hop was Jesse Jackson but that was sort of indirect because he was trying to ban the N-word.

That is some acrobatic logic...

Already your connotative language reveals your massive bias. I'm "programmed", interesting adjective for people who don't agree with you.

Actually, it's easy enough to prove.

I'll believe Conservatives are being persecuted when they stop attacking everyone who has an abortion and push some of them to kill themselves.

The programming continues to function. When I did I say conservatives were being persecuted? YOU brought that up. why? Programming. That's right, anytime anyone you don't consider a liberal says anything preemptively to shut down an all too common argument, you jump right into the "durr hurr, u think ur being persecuted!"

I'd laugh if it wasn't so pitiful.

[aviewaskewed]

At 1/22/14 08:45 AM, Korriken wrote: Funny, you're so well programmed that you jump straight into the "imaginary persecution of________" mode. I almost pity you.... Almost.

Actually I think it's the knee jerk reaction you yourself have instilled because ANY damn time you talk about black issues, or black figures of authority or importance, YOU always talk about the "race card". YOU enter that into the conversation every damn time. YOU entered it in this time, and don't hand me "well I was being pre-emptive" it doesn't change the fact that YOU brought it in and it's cheap and tiresome. How about waiting until somebody does or says something stupid in the thread.

Also, Entice, I've seen the episode a few times, and clearly you misunderstood the part about BET, he did NOT glorify BET. His exact qoute was "Black Entertainment Television is the WORST thing I have ever seen in my life!". Hardly a ringing endorsement.

[Entice]

At 1/23/14 07:16 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: Also, Entice, I've seen the episode a few times, and clearly you misunderstood the part about BET, he did NOT glorify BET.

I never said he did?

[LazyDrunk]

At 1/22/14 08:54 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 1/21/14 07:01 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: Child, once you start paying taxes you'll realize what the true persecution of conservatives really is.

Oh no what persecution that they have to pay the same taxes as everyone else, they should pay lower taxes 'cause they're Conservatives.

There's a box you can check that gives you lower taxes? Tell me more.

[Feoric]

At 1/21/14 07:01 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: Child, once you start paying taxes you'll realize what the true persecution of conservatives really is.

...helping others?

[Warforger]

At 1/22/14 10:17 PM, Korriken wrote: Given how many rappers end up being murdered, compared to other genres,

Ok but that doesn't really prove that their music caused it, just that their environment may have killed them. And is there a source for this?

I'd say someone's taking it seriously. They promote a fantasy lifestyle and apparently try to live it themselves and end up getting shot by other thug wannabes.

Are they? A Beatles Album inspired Charles Manson to begin preparing for "Helter Skelter", does that mean we should ban all Beatles albums? Furthermore gangsta rap is a product of the gang culture; not an instigator of it.

Even if I did, you'd just dismiss it, so I'm not going to bother.

Oh ok so you're not even going to try on the basis that I disagree with you and if I disagree with you your sources won't hold up to me questioning them.

a pig and a scoundrel who is only in it for the fame and attention.

This guy's a criminal, not to mention racist against Asians. I especially love this phrase, We've got to do something about these Asians coming in, opening up businesses, those dirty shops. They ought to go, I'll just say that right now, you know. But we need African-American businesspeople to be able to take their places, too."

Really? We need to get rid of the Asian shops to let the African Americans take their place? This isn't Zimbabwe.

That is some acrobatic logic...

What? My point is that several Civil Rights leaders have survived to the present day, including Kings family. The only comment they've made on the rap culture is the part about using the N-word. What makes you think that King himself would be really that more against it? If you go into the history of the Civil Rights movement you might be eyeing the more submissive leaders who if they were alive today would condemn it like in the video i.e. Booker T Washington. But he pretty much preached for Blacks to not stand up for their rights and to accept segregation (this was the late 1800's). His idea was that if they improved their speech and basically conformed to the lifestyle of white people improving their economic status they could in turn improve their social status eventually reaching that of the white man and consequently be gradually integrated. This approach was thought of as stupid by WEB DuBois, founder of the NAACP, who thought that blacks should challenge the government for their rights. His school of thought became dominant and bolstered by the rise of Black Nationalists.

The programming continues to function. When I did I say conservatives were being persecuted? YOU brought that up.

It's implied every time you say the word "race card" because you only use it in context of it being used to shut Conservatives up.

why? Programming.

Yes, anyone who thinks your claim to the race card as a weapon is laughable is programmed.

That's right, anytime anyone you don't consider a liberal says anything preemptively to shut down an all too common argument, you jump right into the "durr hurr, u think ur being persecuted!"

I'd laugh if it wasn't so pitiful.

This is patently false. This is the only thread I've mentioned the "you think you're being persecuted" line and you've replied to enough of my posts to know that isn't true. Even then I didn't "jump right into it", I first mentioned the topic at hand, THEN I made fun of you for mentioning the fabled race card.

[Feoric]

This thread is a good example of why conservative white people who live in racially homogenous communities shouldn't act like they know how to fix the problems inner city blacks face.