It used to be that improvisation was considered a regular skill for pianists and composers. Bach was a master who could apparently improvise six-part counterpoint. More recent composers wrote impromptus that were based off of improvisations, such as Chopin's famous Fantasy Impromptu. I heard that many of the great performers of the past were also versatile improvisers. Most of the classically trained pianists that I meet today, however, couldn't so much as improvise on a circle-of-fifths progression.
It seems like there must have been some point at which improvisation became seen solely as skill for blues and jazz musicians, and that is such a shame. Improvising allows for a sort of genuine expressiveness that is often different from composing. It reveals an immense amount about the style and instincts of a musician.
Browsing the audio portal, I have only seen a handful of *classical piano improvisations. Are there any particularly skilled improvisers on Newgrounds that you could point me to? I'm always on the lookout for good improv and would love to see the art form make a comeback outside the blues/jazz world.
*By classical, I don't mean the Classical style of composition (as opposed to, say, Baroque). I mean it in the more general sense as might be used by a layman.
Also, I am new here. Hello everyone. :)
Hi there. You have a quite interesting topic here.
In many places improvising got to be a lost art, but in some classical music universities is still required. I remember that one of my friends had to make his own cadenza for a concert. I guess that is a first step.
I am into improvising, mostly jazz, but I digg Baroque too. I guess I can do a bit of baroque style impro.
For people interested into improvising, here is a really good video on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UQU9MFSmzk
Just to be difficult, is it possible to say that any work posted online is truly "improvised"? Unless you're experiencing it in real life in real time, things could be manipulated and there's no true measurement of how improvised something sounds. Anyways, I don't think there's any classical improvisers on here, per say. But, I think there's a lot of work based off of fiddlings or improvisations. Maybe I just don't clearly understand the term...
I think i am not bad in improvising. But you should check out @BlazingDragon . He is pretty good in improvising emotional pieces!
Btw: The chopin pieces have been worked out quite detailled and i dont think they were really improvised live. But maybe the final pieces were based on improvisations. E.g. the impromptus No.1 or the Fantasie Impromptus are definitely not improvised. If you check out the sheet you will meet some very strange "tempo-combinations" like 11 on 7 in the right / left hand or something like that (cant remember correctly - just check out the fantasia impromptus sheet). Nobody can tell me that this was an improvisation.
Dont know if you are a fan of Jazz - if so check out the pieces of oscar peterson. Maybe the best player and improviser ever!
Best wishes and merry christmas to you :D
At 12/22/13 11:32 AM, Qiz wrote: Are there any particularly skilled improvisers on Newgrounds that you could point me to? I'm always on the lookout for good improv and would love to see the art form make a comeback outside the blues/jazz world.
*By classical, I don't mean the Classical style of composition (as opposed to, say, Baroque). I mean it in the more general sense as might be used by a layman.
Also, I am new here. Hello everyone. :)
At 12/22/13 11:32 AM, Qiz wrote: Most of the classically trained pianists that I meet today, however, couldn't so much as improvise on a circle-of-fifths progression.
I have experienced the same exact thing all the way from secondary school music teachers to university/professional level piano players.
I always felt that it had to do with the 'formal' way in which they are taught. Despite having amazing technical abilities say being able to play 32-notes at 120bpm or being able to recite Beethoven's "Moonlight" Sonata op 27 # 2 Mov 3 perfectly they don't seem to be taught how to be creative by using their own ears to listen and write their own music.
You've already highlighted that improvisation seems solely as a skill for blues and jazz musicians. I've had no formal training and instead was taught chords, scales, licks to use as tools to form my own compositions. By delving into music theory I managed to grasp an understanding of ways in which to use scales with certain chords to improvise and invoke certain emotions.
If i actually wanted to compose an 'improvisational classical piece' all I would do is open up a piano VST, hit a chord (say C minor) with the left hand and then just run my right hand over random notes of the C minor/C minor pentatonic/C minor blues scale listening as I played and adjusting accordinly If i felt something just wasn't working or clashing. Then I would pay attention that the scale would resolve itself on a C note at the end of a bar so that the listener would be left feeling as if the piece was resolved. That's a basic level of improvisation but it's where i'd begin.
I'm sure there's plenty of people here on NG with more extensive knowledge and abilities of piano improvisation but I'm afraid I've been out of the loop to long to provide any relevant examples.
I think its not as hard to get some harmonies together and then just play within the right hand above this. The most difficult aspects in my opinion are:
* not just to play anything but to get in some kind of structure. Its extremely hard to play something and having some kind of general idea of what you want to express / to tell and how the overall structure should be. The theme should show up more than just one time. I think that improvising does not mean that no thematic work all over the piece would be necassary anymore. I think this is something essential.
* to bring in rhythmical variety. Maybe thats the hardest aspect for me when i am improvising.
Thats why i would say i am a quite good player - even instantly invented stuff. But it needs more to call yourself a good improviser :D I would give a lot for getting better in that skill ...
At 12/22/13 12:46 PM, SoundChris wrote:
Dont know if you are a fan of Jazz - if so check out the pieces of oscar peterson. Maybe the best player and improviser ever!
MAYBE!?!?!?! HE IS F*%KING AWESOME!
I love Oscar so much, my old teacher really reminds me of Oscar when he improvises.... I asked him to play Britney Spears - Opps I did it again (I don't know why....) in the style of a Jazz/Fugue... Oh my, it was mind blowing....
Oscar really helped me out with some techniques when I studied some of his works, C Jam Blues has a lot of licks you can get an idea from....
CentralComposers TEMP - Cinematic, Hybrid and Soundtrack Sample libraries.
Sound Designer and Audio Engine Programmer.
At 12/22/13 02:09 PM, Bspendlove wrote: I love Oscar so much, my old teacher really reminds me of Oscar when he improvises.... I asked him to play Britney Spears - Opps I did it again (I don't know why....) in the style of a Jazz/Fugue... Oh my, it was mind blowing....
My favourite piece right now is his version of Round midnight by thelonious monk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7yazIH4rAI
Absolutely amazing. I was learning his version of body and soul last year ... man nothing is more satisfying than to play his kind of runs and chord progressions. Just cant get enough ...
At 12/22/13 02:14 PM, SoundChris wrote:
My favourite piece right now is his version of Round midnight by thelonious monk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7yazIH4rAI
Ahhh so nice..... He is just.... Wow as a pianist
Absolutely amazing. I was learning his version of body and soul last year ... man nothing is more satisfying than to play his kind of runs and chord progressions. Just cant get enough ...
SO MANY chord progression of his but yet when I hear them from someone else, they sound not as good xD The way he chooses the harmonies just in his left hand... Is flipping amazing, have you heard "Little Jazz Exercise"? I have always wanted to learn the left hand for that, where it bounces from the Bass note to a chord.......
My fav technique he mentioned was when people play runs in octaves, but he said he loves doing it in 2 octaves instead of playing in unison on 1 octave, gives it so much character...
Learning his runs just improv a lot for a pianist personally right?
To play his runs = Amazing....
But too play his runs as smooth as that!!!!?!?....... I would give up everything I do to play like that
CentralComposers TEMP - Cinematic, Hybrid and Soundtrack Sample libraries.
Sound Designer and Audio Engine Programmer.
At 12/22/13 12:38 PM, sorohanro wrote: For people interested into improvising, here is a really good video on this
Thanks for the video, I'm checking it out now.
At 12/22/13 12:43 PM, ZipZipper wrote: Just to be difficult, is it possible to say that any work posted online is truly "improvised"? Unless you're experiencing it in real life in real time, things could be manipulated and there's no true measurement of how improvised something sounds.
You're right. There may not be a way of knowing if something online is truly improvised, but that's not an issue for me. I'm just trying to see if there are other people around here who enjoy making classical (again, using that word loosely) improv so that I can check out their work.
At 12/22/13 12:46 PM, SoundChris wrote: I think i am not bad in improvising. But you should check out @BlazingDragon. . . Nobody can tell me that this was an improvisation.
Dont know if you are a fan of Jazz - if so check out the pieces of oscar peterson. Maybe the best player and improviser ever!
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll have to take a look at that person's music. As far as Chopin, I don't think it was improvised either. What I meant to say is that the impromptu as a form is in the character of improvisation. It seems like these composers at least appreciated improvisation judging by their use of that form. Oh, and I love jazz. Oscar is a pleasure to watch and listen to. :)
At 12/22/13 02:25 PM, Bspendlove wrote: SO MANY chord progression of his but yet when I hear them from someone else, they sound not as good xD The way he chooses the harmonies just in his left hand... Is flipping amazing, have you heard "Little Jazz Exercise"? I have always wanted to learn the left hand for that, where it bounces from the Bass note to a chord.......
I have got the sheet here but had no time to learn it. I also always wanted to play art tatums "all the things you are".
My fav technique he mentioned was when people play runs in octaves, but he said he loves doing it in 2 octaves instead of playing in unison on 1 octave, gives it so much character...
Yeah thats absolutely amazing :D Even after his stroke hi somehow managed it to get it sound so awesome ... just ... PURE AWESOME-NESS :D
But too play his runs as smooth as that!!!!?!?....... I would give up everything I do to play like that
Its possible to do that, but it takes far to much time. He was a genius ... for him anything seems to be just so easy.
Btw - there is a 6 part video documentation of him and andre previn. Thats really cool - i think its on youtube, too. There he discusses different jazz styles, interprets styles of other great pianists and makes incredibly nice jokes - he really was an complete artwork and entertainer. Did you know he even was a great jazz singer?
At 12/22/13 02:34 PM, SoundChris wrote:
Its possible to do that, but it takes far to much time. He was a genius ... for him anything seems to be just so easy.
Yeah, too much time... If I was to learn, I would want to sit in a room with just a piano.... Nothing else, no doors, no windows... And maybe once every weekend, a doublebassist & drummer would come round... And a fridge full of food of course xD
Btw - there is a 6 part video documentation of him and andre previn. Thats really cool - i think its on youtube, too. There he discusses different jazz styles, interprets styles of other great pianists and makes incredibly nice jokes - he really was an complete artwork and entertainer. Did you know he even was a great jazz singer?
Ohhh, I will look into this! Thanks ;)
A lot of great Jazz pianist tend to be great singers right? From what I have seen, when improvising and using your voice so much to copy it etc...
Oscar literally sings something really bloody difficult and just plays it a split second before he sings it xD
CentralComposers TEMP - Cinematic, Hybrid and Soundtrack Sample libraries.
Sound Designer and Audio Engine Programmer.
At 12/22/13 02:39 PM, Bspendlove wrote: Oscar literally sings something really bloody difficult and just plays it a split second before he sings it
Keith Jarrett is pretty notorious for doing that, but i honestly feel like his voice sounds a little...unpleasant. xD
Also, there is a Venezuelan-born pianist named Gabriela Montero who does spectacular improv at her classical concerts. She often takes audience requests; I think they can hum her a few bars or call out a well known song. Then she improvises on it in a classical style.
She has a really intense take on Summertime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhbcyWRkMpc
At 12/22/13 02:50 PM, Qiz wrote: She has a really intense take on Summertime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhbcyWRkMpc
Reminds me of the lat romantic russian pianists. Now where we are already sharing beautiful piano pieces:
Rachmaninovs - Variations on Corelli:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AibT46te5-s
Ravel - Gaspard de la nuit - Scrabo (= third movement).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_j44Ax1234
I absolutely love that piece ... so intellectual and with a great kind of humor :D )
Hope you enjoy this the same way i do!
I prefer improv on a piano keyboard over clicking dots in a DAW with my mouse anyday. :)
At 12/23/13 11:56 AM, BrokenDeck wrote: I prefer improv on a piano keyboard over clicking dots in a DAW with my mouse anyday. :)
The feeling is definitely better - but its really hard to get some concept going on. Ok - sometimes it doesnt really matter. If you are doing some cinematic background with much reverb and such its just a beautifil thing to sit down at the and just play straight forward :D
I've done some improvisation:
Partially inspired by a really, REALLY depressing my little pony fanfiction.
Didn't clean this one up at all.
At 12/22/13 12:43 PM, ZipZipper wrote: Anyways, I don't think there's any classical improvisers on here, per say.
Aaaaand you'd be wrong.
At 12/24/13 05:57 PM, joshhunsaker wrote:At 12/22/13 12:43 PM, ZipZipper wrote: Anyways, I don't think there's any classical improvisers on here, per say.Aaaaand you'd be wrong.
Well excuuuuuse me...
I mean like I said in my post, how authentic is any of it that's posted online? What is real!? AYUDA.
At 12/24/13 07:31 PM, ZipZipper wrote: Well excuuuuuse me...
I mean like I said in my post, how authentic is any of it that's posted online? What is real!? AYUDA.
I can guarantee this had zero editing whatsoever:
that's it
At 12/24/13 07:31 PM, ZipZipper wrote: Well excuuuuuse me...
I mean like I said in my post, how authentic is any of it that's posted online? What is real!? AYUDA.
Considering the plethora of mistakes in the songs I posted, I doubt this is directed at me, but I've improvised on a livestream before. So yes, there are ways of proving one's authenticity.
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