I hate Israel, is it a problem?

[Susanowoo]

I don't like Israel and his governement. I don't like the country too because I went to vacations there and that really sucks.

I don't like Israel because they tret Palestinians as shit.

Am I racist ?

Waiting your answers

[Korriken]

At 12/16/13 04:28 PM, Susanowoo wrote:

Waiting your answers

Do you have an actual, articulated and balanced argument for hating Israel?

[Tony-DarkGrave]

Israel is alloy better than most of the countries in the middle east.

[randomperson23]

No, but you and I hate the invasive scum that runs isreal and forces its people to fight for land that is not theirs. That country is a nation built off of land theft.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 12/16/13 05:13 PM, randomperson23 wrote: No, but you and I hate the invasive scum that runs isreal and forces its people to fight for land that is not theirs. That country is a nation built off of land theft.

Yes and no ever heard of the British mandate? All that land was suppose to go to Jews for israel but surrounding Muslim countries got butthurt and in the UNs infinite fucked up wisdom made Palestinian territories. Israel oversees it because if they didn't they would be having rockets lobbed at them on by a daily basis, besides those Palestinians can't be left alone to govern themselves it would turn into a catastrophe.

[Camarohusky]

At 12/16/13 05:20 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: besides those Palestinians can't be left alone to govern themselves it would turn into a catastrophe.

Now, you're stretching like crazy here.

[orangebomb]

At 12/16/13 04:28 PM, Susanowoo wrote: I don't like Israel and his governement. I don't like the country too because I went to vacations there and that really sucks.

Just because you hate going there for vacations, doesn't mean that you should totally dislike a country on that alone. Compared to the rest of the Middle East, Israel is a relative bubble of sanity. The fact these Arab countries are fighting for a piece of land that is about 50 miles of sand pretty much shows how petty and warmongering they really are. To be fair, Egypt and Jordan wised up and signed peace deals with Israel.

I don't like Israel because they tret Palestinians as shit.

That may be, but keep in mind that the rest of the Middle East hates their guts just as worse, if not more so. If anything, the Palestinians are to blame more so than the Israelis, because they decided to be greedy fuckers when both countries were formed.

Am I racist ?

Protip: it doesn't make you a racist to dislike another country. I don't know where you get that from.

[SuperBiBi18]

You are extremely racist and inconsiderate. Israel is more than just a destination for tourists. Israel has a thriving culture, a sophisticated education system, and a very tolerant hand with the Palestinians.

[Camarohusky]

At 12/16/13 05:53 PM, orangebomb wrote: Protip: it doesn't make you a racist to dislike another country. I don't know where you get that from.

If you talk to the very pro-Israel types, especially if they're from Israel, they will often equate dislike of Israel with hating Jews.

You can say "Israel as a nation has poor international policies" and you'll get a response stating "Don't be anti-semitic."

[X-Gary-Gigax-X]

Let's just set the table....the entire world has it out for Israel for one reason or another.

So, should we be concerned for them?

[Light]

At 12/16/13 06:33 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 12/16/13 05:53 PM, orangebomb wrote: Protip: it doesn't make you a racist to dislike another country. I don't know where you get that from.

If you talk to the very pro-Israel types, especially if they're from Israel, they will often equate dislike of Israel with hating Jews.

You can say "Israel as a nation has poor international policies" and you'll get a response stating "Don't be anti-semitic."

This is very true. Noam Chomsky, the famous public intellectual, is said by zionists to be anti-semitic just because he thinks Israeli foreign policy is just as deplorable or worse than that of the U.S.

There's a whole section on the allegations of anti-semitism on his Wikipedia article. They're baseless as far as I can tell.

[Artman40]

Hating Israel and its govenment is not a problem. If you hate Israeli, then that would be a problem.

[Camarohusky]

At 12/17/13 11:01 AM, Artman40 wrote: Hating Israel and its govenment is not a problem. If you hate Israeli, then that would be a problem.

Explain.

[AxTekk]

At 12/17/13 01:29 AM, Light wrote: This is very true. Noam Chomsky, the famous public intellectual, is said by zionists to be anti-semitic just because he thinks Israeli foreign policy is just as deplorable or worse than that of the U.S.

There's a whole section on the allegations of anti-semitism on his Wikipedia article. They're baseless as far as I can tell.

To be fair, Noam Chomsky did kind of back up that holocaust denier, saying how the "holocaust question" had never been fully answered. He backed the fuck up on it later, but holocaust denial is a pretty big deal for most Jews I've met.

Funny they should call him anti Semitic though, I mean, Chomsky is kinda a bit Jewish for that label. Guy just loves being non conformist a little more than is intellectually healthy imho.

[Xiicubed]

Israel is an evil apartheid state that oppresses Palestinians

[Xiicubed]

At 12/16/13 05:20 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 12/16/13 05:13 PM, randomperson23 wrote: No, but you and I hate the invasive scum that runs isreal and forces its people to fight for land that is not theirs. That country is a nation built off of land theft.

Yes and no ever heard of the British mandate? All that land was suppose to go to Jews for israel but surrounding Muslim countries got butthurt and in the UNs infinite fucked up wisdom made Palestinian territories. Israel oversees it because if they didn't they would be having rockets lobbed at them on by a daily basis, besides those Palestinians can't be left alone to govern themselves it would turn into a catastrophe.

The British mandate was called "The Mandate of Palestine". It wasn't meant for Jews. The Zionists basically went to Palestine and stole its land and government

[Susanowoo]

At 12/17/13 02:48 PM, Xiicubed wrote: Israel is an evil apartheid state that oppresses Palestinians

Totally agree with Xiicubed .

If you criticize Israel , you are anti-semetic , you don't have just the right to say " i don't like Israel " , If I say " I hate the USA " nobody will say that I'm an anti-chrstian non ?

Completely stupid and yes I hate Israel because they treat all the countries around them as shit . They treat falasha as shit , and treat palestinians as shit too

[Light]

At 12/17/13 02:18 PM, AxTekk wrote:

At 12/17/13 01:29 AM, Light wrote: This is very true. Noam Chomsky, the famous public intellectual, is said by zionists to be anti-semitic just because he thinks Israeli foreign policy is just as deplorable or worse than that of the U.S.

There's a whole section on the allegations of anti-semitism on his Wikipedia article. They're baseless as far as I can tell.

To be fair, Noam Chomsky did kind of back up that holocaust denier, saying how the "holocaust question" had never been fully answered. He backed the fuck up on it later, but holocaust denial is a pretty big deal for most Jews I've met.

Ah, didn't know about that. But I still stand by my claim that the term "anti-semitic" is thrown around a little too freely, though.

Funny they should call him anti Semitic though, I mean, Chomsky is kinda a bit Jewish for that label. Guy just loves being non conformist a little more than is intellectually healthy imho.

I must admit that sometimes it seems he's being a nonconformist for the sake of it.

[AxTekk]

At 12/17/13 05:19 PM, Light wrote: Ah, didn't know about that. But I still stand by my claim that the term "anti-semitic" is thrown around a little too freely, though.

Yeah, definitely true. I mean, they call George Galloway antisemitic, and while a total prick I don't see how anyone could paint him any kind of racist. You kind of see the same with pro-Israelis being called anti- Muslim. It's a cheap ad hominem which degrades and polarises the debate.

I must admit that sometimes it seems he's being a nonconformist for the sake of it.

Yeah. He's a smart guy though, the stuff he wrote on linguistics is straight ridiculous.

[Light]

At 12/17/13 06:33 PM, AxTekk wrote:
Yeah. He's a smart guy though, the stuff he wrote on linguistics is straight ridiculous.

There's a possibility that I will take philosophy of language classes in the future(I'm a philosophy major), so if I decide to do that, I definitely will look forward to reading his work.

[AxTekk]

At 12/17/13 06:52 PM, Light wrote:

At 12/17/13 06:33 PM, AxTekk wrote:
Yeah. He's a smart guy though, the stuff he wrote on linguistics is straight ridiculous.

There's a possibility that I will take philosophy of language classes in the future(I'm a philosophy major), so if I decide to do that, I definitely will look forward to reading his work.

Damn man. It's hard to believe anyone after Wittgenstein could really write stuff of worth in that field, but I found him really insightful and eloquent. But yeah lol kinda off-topic

[Light]

At 12/17/13 06:59 PM, AxTekk wrote:

At 12/17/13 06:52 PM, Light wrote:

At 12/17/13 06:33 PM, AxTekk wrote:
Yeah. He's a smart guy though, the stuff he wrote on linguistics is straight ridiculous.

There's a possibility that I will take philosophy of language classes in the future(I'm a philosophy major), so if I decide to do that, I definitely will look forward to reading his work.

Damn man. It's hard to believe anyone after Wittgenstein could really write stuff of worth in that field, but I found him really insightful and eloquent. But yeah lol kinda off-topic

David Kaplan is a world-renowned philosopher of language at UCLA. He teaches the philosophy of language classes at that school that I hope to transfer to soon. His work is probably worth reading since he's so famous in the world of philosophy, lol.

[Feoric]

At 12/17/13 02:18 PM, AxTekk wrote: To be fair, Noam Chomsky did kind of back up that holocaust denier, saying how the "holocaust question" had never been fully answered. He backed the fuck up on it later, but holocaust denial is a pretty big deal for most Jews I've met.

Are you talking about the Faurisson Affair? Because if you are it didn't go down the way you seem to think it did.

[AnarchistOverman]

My attitude is that anti-Zionism is okay. Anti-Semitism isn't.

[Camarohusky]

At 12/18/13 02:09 AM, AnarchistOverman wrote: My attitude is that anti-Zionism is okay. Anti-Semitism isn't.

Just an FYI, reference to Israel is "Zionists" actually IS a sign of anti-semetism. It's placing a highly pejorative word when a more accurate more benign word (Israel, Israeli) would be much better.

[YomToxic]

Just because they outfought the united armies of powerful middle-eastern countries and won the land in honorable battle is no reason to hate them.

[Korriken]

At 12/16/13 06:33 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

If you talk to the very pro-Israel types, especially if they're from Israel, they will often equate dislike of Israel with hating Jews.

You can say "Israel as a nation has poor international policies" and you'll get a response stating "Don't be anti-semitic."

That works for just about every group, though.

[24901miles]

Why anti-Zionism is still anti-Semitic: reply to critics - Elyon Aslan-Levy

Most Zionists believe that any attempt at hypothetically dismantling Israel as a Jewish Nation-state is anti-Semitic.

I think you'll be surprised to find that people automatically categorize you as an anti-Semite if you say anything that sounds even remotely critical of Israel in the United States. That is mostly because Americans as a whole have very simple perspectives on international politics. It sucks.

So yes, if you live in America, then definitionally you are anti-Semitic if you criticize the Israeli's occupation of Palestinian lands, new settlements, or the pseudo-apartheid. You may even be anti-Semitic if you express sympathies for Palestinians. The bar is just that low.

[AxTekk]

At 12/17/13 11:36 PM, Feoric wrote: Are you talking about the Faurisson Affair? Because if you are it didn't go down the way you seem to think it did.

I think the problem people had wasn't that he defended someone's rights to say something he disagreed with, but that he did so without condemning Faurisson's views. The scare quotes he used on Holocaust, and the phrase "Holocaust question" I think got people riled up massively, as well as calling Faurisson an apolitical liberal.

Not saying he's a Holocaust denier. Just saying he was a tad tactless in his initial letter, and that it's a subject Israelis are incredibly sensitive over.

[Feoric]

At 12/18/13 10:01 AM, AxTekk wrote: I think the problem people had wasn't that he defended someone's rights to say something he disagreed with, but that he did so without condemning Faurisson's views. The scare quotes he used on Holocaust, and the phrase "Holocaust question" I think got people riled up massively, as well as calling Faurisson an apolitical liberal.

Condemning Faurisson's views would have been entirely counter productive to the point he was making. His point is that people who hold reprehensible, moronic or otherwise unpalatable views should still have a voice in society; he was defending Faurisson's right to say whatever he wants and to pursue any form of inquiry he wants, regardless of the controversy it generates. Now, if you were to ask him personally whether he agreed with Faurisson, his answer would be no, as he has gone on record numerous times in the past saying so. I don't see how the "Holocaust question" is slanderous to Chomsky himself since he isn't the one setting out to "answer" it -- Faurisson et al are. Chomsky's position is that these people are cooks, but should not be silenced. I find this to be an uncontroversial view to hold if you really are a proponent of freedom of speech. In his own words:

"In this statement, I made it explicit that I would not discuss Faurisson's work, having only limited familiarity with it (and, frankly, little interest in it). Rather, I restricted myself to the civil-liberties issues and the implications of the fact that it was even necessary to recall Voltaire's famous words in a letter to M. le Riche: "I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write."

Faurisson's conclusions are diametrically opposed to views I hold and have frequently expressed in print (for example, in my book Peace in the Middle East?, where I describe the holocaust as "the most fantastic outburst of collective insanity in human history"). But it is elementary that freedom of expression (including academic freedom) is not to be restricted to views of which one approves, and that it is precisely in the case of views that are almost universally despised and condemned that this right must be most vigorously defended. It is easy enough to defend those who need no defense or to join in unanimous (and often justified) condemnation of a violation of civil rights by some official enemy."

Not saying he's a Holocaust denier. Just saying he was a tad tactless in his initial letter, and that it's a subject Israelis are incredibly sensitive over.

I don't see it as tactless, I see it as normal. Any Jew should be welcome to come out and detest these people and challenge them so that they can be exposed as the crooks that they are without the involvement of the state.