I Don't Believe in Rape

[Kwing]

Welp, if anything is going to put me at the center of a shitslinging contest this is it.

I don't really think rape exists the way most people think it does, or rather I think that the reason that people are as affected by rape as they are has more to do with the idea and context of rape than the actual assault. Rape is certainly considered a serious issue in our culture, and while its effects are obviously harmful, I think that making it out to be a serious issue may make it worse on the victim. Perfect example:

"From the child´s point of view and from the commonsense point of view, there is an enormous difference between intercourse with a willing little girl and the forcible penetration of the small vagina of a terrified child. One woman I know enjoyed sex with an uncle all through her childhood, and never realized that anything was unusual until she went away to school. What disturbed her then was not what her uncle had done but the attitude of her teachers and the school psychiatrist. They assumed that she must have been traumatized and disgusted and therefore in need of very special help. In order to capitulate their expectations, she began to fake symptoms that she did not feel, until at length she began to feel truely guilty about not having been guilty. She ended up judging herself very harshly for this innate lechery."

I read an essay comparing emotional trauma as being the same as physical trauma. The essay compared the two, citing that if someone falls off a bike, they may be seriously injured or they may land well and end up with only a few scrapes, but that the severity of an injury is a case-by-case basis.

I guess what I'm getting at is that assault and battery are serious crimes, but that when you call into question all of the intangible things that are supposedly damaged by a rape, be it someone's soul, dignity, purity or whatnot, since all of those are conceptual constructs, it is only society's insistence causes rape to damage those things.

In other words, it's a serious deal if you have a really close friend that you trust at some point turns around and rapes you, but is it really any worse than if they just beat the living shit out of you instead? This is not to make light the very serious risks of pregnancy or disease that may result from rape, but in asserting that rape is so harmful to a person and that it destroys them, we may be showing concern for victims but we are also dis-empowering them by viewing them as powerless victims.

Not having been a victim of sexual assault myself, I am fully aware that my views on the matter are limited. By the same token, I don't believe that a victim of sexual assault would have a complete understanding of this scenario unless they grew up in a very different society, ended up the victim of sexual assault, and then moved into Western culture. If I were a journalist I would interview rape victims from different countries; however, as it is I can only share my speculations online.

So... Does anyone agree? Or am I just pulling this out of my ass?

[Anime-NoireChan]

I agree, as same here.

[supergandhi64]

typical atheist sentiments not to believe in anything & to be irreverent enough as to make light of maybe the worst crime which can be committed against another human being

--supergandhi64

[24901miles]

You don't think there are any cases of women being brutalized by powerful men who are threatening to murder them if they report the crime? You don't think here are any men who are forcibly seduced by women they have no interest in, under threat of violence or social consequences?

You've never seen a woman get a guy drunk and try to convince him to take her friend? You've never seen a guy trying to take advantage of a drunk girl? You haven't seen any of this?

Rape isn't some myth. Get your head out of your own ass.

[Asandir]

At 12/12/13 01:31 AM, Kwing wrote: So... Does anyone agree? Or am I just pulling this out of my ass?

100% disagree. You state one example where the rape goes relatively "peaceful". Often enough, I would dare to say most times, it goes very differently. Example: Woman walks through a dark alley at night, no living soul around. Suddenly she gets tossed to the ground. Then, a man is above her, smacking her in the face, holding a knife and whispering in her ear "Scream and I will cut your throat you worthless piece of crap". He then proceeds to rape her in the most violent way possible. Once he is finished he starts to punch and kick her and she barely manages to run away from him into the forest. She waits there till the sunlight.

Embarassed and scared she never goes to the police, becomes depressed because she was violated on a physical level and also emotionally since her freedom was taken away and her life was at stake and loses her job in the process and has to deal with no one understanding her.

You fail to understand that rape is not only "oops I just put that weiner there without asking, sorry". In your one example it went differently but generalizing that women who were actually violated by complete strangers shouldn't make "such a deal out of it" is so ignorant that I can't believe it.

Conclusion: Yes, you pulled that out of your ass.

[venturequestlord]

At 12/12/13 01:45 AM, 24901miles wrote: You don't think there are any cases of women being brutalized by powerful men who are threatening to murder them if they report the crime? You don't think here are any men who are forcibly seduced by women they have no interest in, under threat of violence or social consequences?

You've never seen a woman get a guy drunk and try to convince him to take her friend? You've never seen a guy trying to take advantage of a drunk girl? You haven't seen any of this?

Rape isn't some myth. Get your head out of your own ass.

I highly agree with 24901miles, its not a myth. I live in Pakistan so chances in rural, under-developed areas is always high.

Also, their isn't even one country in the world that hasn't been a victim of rape and human sex trafficking.

[Grotty]

All I read was, "blah, blah, blah, I'm so fucking edgy."

[Entice]

Well first of all the quote is about pedophilia and not rape (obviously I don't agree with either, but they are different things).

Second of all, what's a "peaceful rape"? Non-physical coercion isn't exactly peaceful. Psychological harm is very real, not some imaginary construct.

Now, not everyone reacts the same way so maybe so people are dis-empowered by the assumption that they must have been traumatized to hell and back by the event. I think you chose the worst possible way to phrase all of this though, lol

[Natick]

i hate to sound like this guy but imagine when gagsy gets in here, lol

[Entice]

At 12/12/13 02:11 AM, Natick wrote: i hate to sound like this guy but imagine when gagsy gets in here, lol

prepare for the gagstorm

[AmateurPsychonaut]

http://projectunbreakable.tumblr.com/

^Rape is very much real. The psychological harm has nothing to do with a societal stigma against rape. Rape is simply a disgusting form of predation. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that one doesn't force themselves upon someone. That's one of the most vile things a person can do to another. It shows a complete lack of conscience and respect for human life. Get real.

[mothballs]

At 12/12/13 01:45 AM, 24901miles wrote: You don't think here are any men who are forcibly seduced by women they have no interest in, under threat of violence or social consequences?

Actually, I don't.

[HollowedPumkinz]

At 12/12/13 01:45 AM, 24901miles wrote: Didn't read the Op and only the title. Granted the title is misleading of the actual content, none-the-less, take the time to read through it next time, por favor.

^^^^
Anyways, @OP: You bring up some interesting points however I feel you're pointing towards microscopic exceptions to the monolithic majority. I agree on some points though, the portrayal of rape in our society I feel has definitely contributed to its being as feared and vile as we see it today and perhaps contributed to its damaging effects overall.

The power of rape comes from the emotional impact rather than the physical impact, so the question to ask our selves is: Would this emotional impact be the same if our society did not demonize it as much as we do? Would it just be considered as bad as any other battery and assault if we didn't contextualize it with images of "soul murder"? When we make victims out as "oh poor thing, you MUST be devastated and petrified!" we are imbedding the idea that they HAVE to be "devastated and petrified" when you are raped and that not being so is the wrong way to feel and as you put it "feeling guilty about not feeling guilty enough". I'm not saying we should go around telling rape victims to "suck it up you whiny bitch." But perhaps not overplay it as the most destructive thing ever, rather, we should just show support and reaffirm in the person (not "victim") that they are still and always will be who they were before the crime occurred and treat the crime as just that: A crime. Do not overplay it, do not send out lynch mobs or coddle the "poor poor victim". Just let Justice take the helm and focus on the person who needs help. Focus on the person, not the crime, essentially.

So overall, though I don't agree with any of the examples you provided, I DO agree with what I think is your overall message. You ain't alone their pal, though granted I too, have not had such a crime happen to me and sympathize with anyone who knows or has been through such a crime.

[24901miles]

At 12/12/13 02:21 AM, HollowedPumkinz wrote:

At 12/12/13 01:45 AM, 24901miles wrote: Didn't read the Op and only the title. Granted the title is misleading of the actual content, none-the-less, take the time to read through it next time, por favor.

^^^^
Anyways, @OP

Haha, who do you think you're talking to, douche? I read every word.

[HollowedPumkinz]

At 12/12/13 02:27 AM, 24901miles wrote:

At 12/12/13 02:21 AM, HollowedPumkinz wrote:

At 12/12/13 01:45 AM, 24901miles wrote: Didn't read the Op and only the title. Granted the title is misleading of the actual content, none-the-less, take the time to read through it next time, por favor.

^^^^
Anyways, @OP

Haha, who do you think you're talking to, douche? I read every word.

A guy whose pride was hurt by having someone point out that he jumped the gun, Friend. IF you read every word you would know he doesn't actually consider Rape to be a "myth" and that he chose the worst, most misleading title possible for this topic. He isn't contesting that rape, the actual act, is not real, he simply doesn't view rape as the majority of society views it.

You gave many examples of rape and concluded that because these scenarios happen often, rape is real thus refuting the title of this thread in which you assumed he literally meant he did not believe that rape, the act, ever happens, therefore you most likely did not read anything beyond the title because its a semi-long read and assumed it would just be an expansion of the title's point (which it is not). There is nothing wrong with this, I am guilty of the same charge. However, acting like a douche bag about it because somebody called you out on it was the wrong move, much like not reading the OP. But given that calling you out was not necessary, I understand how you must feel like it was an attack on you. And for that, I regret any imagined attack on your person, as it was unintended and however condescending you find this dissection to be, know that I find it merely the best way to diffuse the situation. And you can either accept this and we both walk away hands in the air, or you can continue it. Your call.

[venturequestlord]

At 12/12/13 02:45 AM, HollowedPumkinz wrote:

At 12/12/13 02:27 AM, 24901miles wrote:

At 12/12/13 02:21 AM, HollowedPumkinz wrote:

At 12/12/13 01:45 AM, 24901miles wrote: Didn't read the Op and only the title. Granted the title is misleading of the actual content, none-the-less, take the time to read through it next time, por favor.

^^^^
Anyways, @OP

Haha, who do you think you're talking to, douche? I read every word.

@ hollowedpumpkinz I think the person who posted had actaully clearly wrote on the headline of his topic as:
"I dont believe in Rape"

[Stretchysumo]

There's rape, and then there's ”rape” (statutory, false claims, girl gets drunk and regrets it, etc.). Most people get charged for the latter, but that doesn't mean that actual rape doesn't ever happen. You've got feminazis to blame for blowing it out of proportion.

[mothballs]

At 12/12/13 02:57 AM, Stretchysumo wrote: There's rape, and then there's ”rape” (statutory, false claims, girl gets drunk and regrets it, etc.). Most people get charged for the latter, but that doesn't mean that actual rape doesn't ever happen. You've got feminazis to blame for blowing it out of proportion.

Statuary rape laws are retarded. In New York State, sex with a person under 17 is a crime if the perpetrator is at least 16. That means if two 16-year-olds have sex they both get accused of raping each other. Not even kidding.

[24901miles]

At 12/12/13 02:45 AM, HollowedPumkinz wrote:

At 12/12/13 02:27 AM, 24901miles wrote:

At 12/12/13 02:21 AM, HollowedPumkinz wrote:

At 12/12/13 01:45 AM, 24901miles wrote: Didn't read the Op and only the title. Granted the title is misleading of the actual content, none-the-less, take the time to read through it next time, por favor.

^^^^
Anyways, @OP

Haha, who do you think you're talking to, douche? I read every word.

A guy whose pride was hurt by having someone point out that he jumped the gun, Friend. IF you read every word you would know he doesn't actually consider Rape to be a "myth" and that he chose the worst, most misleading title possible for this topic. He isn't contesting that rape, the actual act, is not real, he simply doesn't view rape as the majority of society views it.

My pride is fine, I'm correcting your error. I wouldn't be replying to this thread if I hadn't read every word of every post before my own. Though, it's very clever of you to try to grab my attention in this way, I won't take the bait next time. I wouldn't want you getting in the habit of packing people in straw.

You gave many examples of rape and concluded that because these scenarios happen often, rape is real thus refuting the title of this thread in which you assumed he literally meant he did not believe that rape, the act, ever happens, therefore you most likely did not read anything beyond the title because its a semi-long read and assumed it would just be an expansion of the title's point (which it is not). There is nothing wrong with this, I am guilty of the same charge. However, acting like a douche bag about it becauseomebody called you out on it was the wrong move, much like not reading the OP. But given that calling you out was not necessary, I understand how you must feel like it was an attack on you. And for that, I regret any imagined attack on your person, as it was unintended and however condescending you find this dissection to be, know that I find it merely the best way to diffuse the situation. And you can either accept this and we both walk away hands in the air, or you can continue it. Your call.

I refused his anecdotal argument and substituted several of my own. He is trying to take an objective stance and point out that the physical act of 'rape' itself isn't as horrible for the victim as society's reactions. That's incredibly ignorant and disrespectful to the millions of rape victims who have had much less comfortable rape experiences than his example of statutory rape.

Maybe you haven't realized it yet, but this is a much more serious issue than your assumptions that my pride must be hurt. I think that you haven't posted in here because you've read the OP; rather you're angry that I haven't returned any of your serves in the past few threads you've chased me through. Sure, clever ruse.

[Stereocrisis]

I read your post and I agree with the message. People feel more injured by a traumatic emotional event when others insist they have been through a traumatic emotional event.

When a person is treated like a victim, they been a victim.

Yet, I do agree to some point that a victim be comforted. Understanding what you just said is a very important lesson for people who feel victimized in general.

I just feel so bad for those who don't try and play the victim, and look normal on the outside, and so they never get the help they need.

Personally, I also believe that a child being raped is far worse than a child sustaining a beating. The sickness of what is happening in the mind of the perpetrator in a child rape is far sicker than the mind it takes to beat a child.

Don't ask me why I feel this way. I guess it is because children deserve a smack now and then. Not a vicious beating. But they sometimes even need to catch an ass whooping to learn a value lesson.

A rape on the other hand is just completely fucked up. No child needs to learn about that part of life in such a horrible way. It's legitimate soul murder.

You could argue that a vicious beating would have it's own negative psychological effects. I would probably agree with you.

So, let's just agree that anyone beating or raping a child should be imprisoned.

[BurningJesus]

At 12/12/13 01:39 AM, supergandhi64 wrote: typical atheist sentiments not to believe in anything & to be irreverent enough as to make light of maybe the worst crime which can be committed against another human being

--supergandhi64

Rape is obviously not the worst crime, taking the life of a human is.

[Stereocrisis]

At 12/12/13 03:29 AM, SexualEmo wrote:

At 12/12/13 01:39 AM, supergandhi64 wrote: typical atheist sentiments not to believe in anything & to be irreverent enough as to make light of maybe the worst crime which can be committed against another human being

--supergandhi64

Rape is obviously not the worst crime, taking the life of a human is.

Torture is probably a worse crime. Killing someone in one shot isn't as bad as the agony you cold put someone through.

[Slint]

Don't believe in forced entry
Don't believe in rape
But everytime she passes by
Wild thoughts escape
I don't believe in death row
Skid row or the gangs
Don't believe in the Uzi
It just went off in my hand
I, I believe in love

UH, UH

[Dew]

Rape isn't some myth. Get your head out of your own ass.

YOU JUST GOT SERVED

[supergandhi64]

At 12/12/13 03:46 AM, Stereocrisis wrote:

At 12/12/13 03:29 AM, SexualEmo wrote:

At 12/12/13 01:39 AM, supergandhi64 wrote: typical atheist sentiments not to believe in anything & to be irreverent enough as to make light of maybe the worst crime which can be committed against another human being

--supergandhi64

Rape is obviously not the worst crime, taking the life of a human is.

Torture is probably a worse crime. Killing someone in one shot isn't as bad as the agony you cold put someone through.

if you think either of those are even nearly as bad as rape only goes to show how little respect you have for victims of rape & how poorly you understand the scope & magnitude of rape . . . by saying you think killing or torturing someone is worse than rape then you're effectively demonstrating that you aren't mature enough to be talking about the subject of rape in the first place

--supergandhi64

[ZeroAsALimit]

At 12/12/13 01:31 AM, Kwing wrote: I don't really think rape exists the way most people think it does, or rather I think that the reason that people are as affected by rape as they are has more to do with the idea and context of rape than the actual assault.

That makes no fucking sense. Victims don't sit and ponder it, they have been brutalized and even a gut level instinct tells them that it's pretty much a barrel of shit.

Rape is certainly considered a serious issue in our culture, and while its effects are obviously harmful, I think that making it out to be a serious issue may make it worse on the victim.

As opposed to trivializing it?

"From the child´s point of view and from the commonsense point of view, there is an enormous difference between intercourse with a willing little girl and the forcible penetration of the small vagina of a terrified child. One woman I know enjoyed sex with an uncle all through her childhood, and never realized that anything was unusual until she went away to school. What disturbed her then was not what her uncle had done but the attitude of her teachers and the school psychiatrist. They assumed that she must have been traumatized and disgusted and therefore in need of very special help. In order to capitulate their expectations, she began to fake symptoms that she did not feel, until at length she began to feel truely guilty about not having been guilty. She ended up judging herself very harshly for this innate lechery."

Yeah, that's because she was being groomed. The fact that she considered this normal is a testament to the magnitude of what he has done to her, not of anything else. You don't seem to realise that it wasn't odd for her because, as a child, SHE HAD NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT HE WAS DOING TO HER.

I guess what I'm getting at is that assault and battery are serious crimes, but that when you call into question all of the intangible things that are supposedly damaged by a rape, be it someone's soul, dignity, purity or whatnot, since all of those are conceptual constructs, it is only society's insistence causes rape to damage those things.

So you are saying that soul, dignity and purity are all social constructs? Well, one of them is a material thing. Two of those are concepts. Ones that you can define yourself without society.

In other words, it's a serious deal if you have a really close friend that you trust at some point turns around and rapes you, but is it really any worse than if they just beat the living shit out of you instead?

Yes, because they raped you. It's not that hard to understand. What's worse, me slapping you or me shoving my cock up your ass?

This is not to make light the very serious risks of pregnancy or disease that may result from rape, but in asserting that rape is so harmful to a person and that it destroys them, we may be showing concern for victims but we are also dis-empowering them by viewing them as powerless victims.

Generally speaking, they ARE powerless victims.

Not having been a victim of sexual assault myself, I am fully aware that my views on the matter are limited. By the same token, I don't believe that a victim of sexual assault would have a complete understanding of this scenario unless they grew up in a very different society, ended up the victim of sexual assault, and then moved into Western culture. If I were a journalist I would interview rape victims from different countries; however, as it is I can only share my speculations online.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! The effects are pretty universal, do some research.

So, are you a troll or borderline retarded?

[Conal]

I think statutory rape should be called "Unlawful Intercourse", or something. Rape connatates force.

[Zachary]

What exactly are your qualifications besides being an 18 year old from Illinois?

[Fim]

I don't even know where to begin really, you've phrased an otherwise borderline legitimate point into something needlessly provocative, how the hell can you 'not believe in rape'? You might have got away with saying 'I don't believe that rape is as bad as it is perceived to be' but how can you claim not to believe in it?

I'll acknowledge that the social stigma attached to rape is bad, and yes it probably makes the situation worse for the victim, but you're anecdote doesn't really cancel out the fact that rape is something that a large portion of people can never get over, and some of them commit suicide. The stigma is justified because in a decent moral society it is up there with one of the worst things that could happen to a person.

You're point could be made more generally, and about anything else, I'm sure that we have a higher president taboo attached to murder than we used to say 1000 years ago. I hope that we are moving towards a future where we try and live as more decent human beings in a society where don't make light of such a serious crime as rape.

</rant>

[kanef]

*tips fedora*