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At 12/4/13 04:45 PM, Xenomit wrote:

At 12/4/13 02:29 PM, ManDeep wrote: I'm pretty sure most currency worth is imaginary and only exists because we put our trust in it.
Sure it's worth is not stable right now, but the idea behind the currency is nothing different than Dollars or Euros.

It's dramatically different. It purely exists 100% in the digital realm, nothing about it in any way form or fashion makes it a real object, it's just a bunch of ones and zeros. You can argue that it's the same way with US dollars, but you'd be retarded to, because US dollars are accepted in 99% of the world, they're a physical object, and you can withdraw as much as you have at any time, not to mention that the US dollar can't go from being worth 1.00 to 1000.00 in a few years for nothing more than people want more of it.

Plus, people can create more of them almost for free. you can't create more gold unless you make a star go supernova. What good does that make it of a currency. People can hack computers and steal your bitcoins, people can't hack paper.

Computer scripts, hard drives, and electricity are all real objects. Bitcoins are also real objects. The Bitcoin system is the logical next step in the evolution of currency.

you can't create more gold unless you make a star go supernova.

We need Gold for other things like electronics and science research. The only reason we don't make gold from other elements is that it's expensive to transmute elements. You don't need a supernova to do that, we just don't do it because there's enough gold on earth to keep prices relatively low.

At 12/4/13 04:45 PM, Xenomit wrote:

It's dramatically different. It purely exists 100% in the digital realm, nothing about it in any way form or fashion makes it a real object, it's just a bunch of ones and zeros. You can argue that it's the same way with US dollars, but you'd be retarded to, because US dollars are accepted in 99% of the world, they're a physical object.

O right, because the numbers on paper money DO represent the intrinsic value of the paper itself, huh. Sure people have less trust in bitcoins than in the US Dollar, but that doesn't change the fact that in essence, they're exactly the same: All nominal value, no intrinsic value. Besides, exactly how stable is the US Dollar with that 13 trillon Dollar debt your government has?

At 12/4/13 05:04 PM, 24901miles wrote: Computer scripts, hard drives, and electricity are all real objects. Bitcoins are also real objects. The Bitcoin system is the logical next step in the evolution of currency.

Try taking computer scripts, hard drives and electricity to your local macdonalds and see how many burgers you can get with them.

Digitizing currency is the logical next step, but bitcoin is by all means the worst way to go about it.

The only reason we don't make gold from other elements is that it's expensive to transmute elements. You don't need a supernova to do that, we just don't do it because there's enough gold on earth to keep prices relatively low.

Gold from nothing. I'm talking about making gold from nothing (I know it's still technically not nothing, but stars are, as far as we know, the only things in the universe that can create elements from basic building blocks) not taking several materials and turning those into gold. You can make bitcoins from absolutely nothing, and that's a retarded direction to go with for new currency. I'm really glad that the whole thing is doomed to fail.

At 12/4/13 05:13 PM, ManDeep wrote: O right, because the numbers on paper money DO represent the intrinsic value of the paper itself, huh. Sure people have less trust in bitcoins than in the US Dollar, but that doesn't change the fact that in essence, they're exactly the same: All nominal value, no intrinsic value.

That in absolutely no way makes them the same. It's one similarity, how do you get "exactly the same from that"?

Besides, exactly how stable is the US Dollar with that 13 trillon Dollar debt your government has?

What does debt have to do with stability. The US dollar is and has been rock solid for like, 200 years.

At 12/4/13 04:45 PM, Xenomit wrote:

Plus, people can create more of them almost for free, you can't create more gold unless you make a star go supernova. What good does that make it of a currency. People can hack computers and steal your bitcoins, people can't hack paper.

You've been "following Bitcoin for 4 years" yet don't understand how Bitcoin are created and managed yet? Despite it being discussed numerous times in this very topic?

??

Here's a thing that actually can be created for free:

At 12/4/13 04:32 PM, poxpower wrote: Creating more Bitcoin is extremely hard / impossible.
If you wanted to rip off Bitcoin users, you would not do it by creating more Bitcoin but by doing all the same things you can already do with normal money: Steal accounts, refuse to pay etc etc.

Ah, I see now.

At 12/4/13 05:04 PM, 24901miles wrote: Computer scripts, hard drives, and electricity are all real objects. Bitcoins are also real objects. The Bitcoin system is the logical next step in the evolution of currency.

Dollars have been digital for decades. Bitcoin is not evolution, it's stagnation. Modern economic policy relies on fractional reserve banking. Please explain how this is possible with a hard-capped digital currency with no central authority to enact monetary policy.

At 12/4/13 05:13 PM, ManDeep wrote: O right, because the numbers on paper money DO represent the intrinsic value of the paper itself, huh. Sure people have less trust in bitcoins than in the US Dollar, but that doesn't change the fact that in essence, they're exactly the same: All nominal value, no intrinsic value.

Yes, both bitcoin and US dollars are fiat. So?

Besides, exactly how stable is the US Dollar with that 13 trillon Dollar debt your government has?

Very stable, seeing as it's currently the world's reserve currency. Also, government debt is an asset via t-bills, bonds, securities and the sort.

At 12/4/13 05:19 PM, poxpower wrote: Here's a thing that actually can be created for free:

Good luck redeeming it with the "not legal tender" notice at the top.

That's not real money, that's a piece of paper made to look like money.

At 12/4/13 05:25 PM, Xenomit wrote:

At 12/4/13 05:19 PM, poxpower wrote: Here's a thing that actually can be created for free:

Good luck redeeming it with the "not legal tender" notice at the top.

That's not real money, that's a piece of paper made to look like money.

For legal purposes (ie; printing it) it has to be there. He's talking about hyperinflation in Zimbabwe.

At 12/4/13 05:16 PM, Xenomit wrote:

At 12/4/13 05:04 PM, 24901miles wrote: Computer scripts, hard drives, and electricity are all real objects. Bitcoins are also real objects. The Bitcoin system is the logical next step in the evolution of currency.

Try taking computer scripts, hard drives and electricity to your local macdonalds and see how many burgers you can get with them.

I don't eat junk food, no thank you. But to prove you wrong in theory, I can take my credit card to the McDonald's a few miles away and get thousands of burgers any time I want. Credit cards are actually less secure than Bitcoins, they're just trusted more.

Do you think Credit Card Companies are mailing dollar bills or gold bullion to McDonalds every time you buy a burger? Nope. They're just forgiving McDonald's debt or adding a few bytes to the McDonald's accounts and reporting the transaction to several servers.

Digitizing currency is the logical next step, but bitcoin is by all means the worst way to go about it.

It was the next step in the 80s when we started doing it. Now it's an inevitability that can't be effectively legislated against.

The only reason we don't make gold from other elements is that it's expensive to transmute elements. You don't need a supernova to do that, we just don't do it because there's enough gold on earth to keep prices relatively low.

Gold from nothing. I'm talking about making gold from nothing (I know it's still technically not nothing, but stars are, as far as we know, the only things in the universe that can create elements from basic building blocks) not taking several materials and turning those into gold. You can make bitcoins from absolutely nothing, and that's a retarded direction to go with for new currency. I'm really glad that the whole thing is doomed to fail.

You can't make bitcoins from nothing. You need to break the encryption in order to create one, that takes energy, processing power, and bandwidth.

At 12/4/13 05:19 PM, Xenomit wrote:

That in absolutely no way makes them the same. It's one similarity, how do you get "exactly the same from that"?

I'm done, ask you economy teacher.

Besides, exactly how stable is the US Dollar with that 13 trillon Dollar debt your government has?

What does debt have to do with stability. The US dollar is and has been rock solid for like, 200 years.

Totally. Remember the great depression? That never happened.

At 12/4/13 05:33 PM, ManDeep wrote: Totally. Remember the great depression? That never happened.

Stockmarket.

At 12/4/13 05:33 PM, ManDeep wrote: Totally. Remember the great depression? That never happened.

What did national debt have to do with the Great Depression?

At 12/4/13 05:36 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 12/4/13 05:33 PM, ManDeep wrote: Totally. Remember the great depression? That never happened.

What did national debt have to do with the Great Depression?

Nothing, was just pointing out that the Dollar hasn't exactly been stable for 200 years.

At 12/4/13 05:44 PM, ManDeep wrote:

At 12/4/13 05:36 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 12/4/13 05:33 PM, ManDeep wrote: Totally. Remember the great depression? That never happened.

What did national debt have to do with the Great Depression?

Nothing, was just pointing out that the Dollar hasn't exactly been stable for 200 years.

When the stock market crashed, everyone panicked and the dollar became significantly less valuable for several years.

A few years out of 200 is a better track record than any post-medieval currency that I know of.

At 12/4/13 05:59 PM, Xenomit wrote: When the stock market crashed, everyone panicked and the dollar became significantly less valuable for several years.

A few years out of 200 is a better track record than any post-medieval currency that I know of.

The interesting thing is that it wasn't necessarily the crash that hurt the dollar the most. It was actually the tight monetary policy the Fed enacted right after it.

ironically i didn't know there were so many new grounds users with economics degrees lol

--supergandhi64

Please describe to us step by step process to go about adding unlimited bitcoins to your wallet file.

At 12/4/13 07:19 PM, Feoric wrote: Please describe to us step by step process to go about adding unlimited bitcoins to your wallet file.

Any skilled hacker can very easily destroy the entire thing. As I've said a ton already, the same can be applied to banks, but it's a lot harder to get away with, and there's money insurance, not to mention the people who don't use banks.

At 12/4/13 07:19 PM, Feoric wrote: Please describe to us step by step process to go about adding unlimited bitcoins to your wallet file.

It becomes more trivial when you're the developer and have access to the source code, which I believe is what he meant.

At 12/4/13 07:36 PM, Entice wrote:

At 12/4/13 07:19 PM, Feoric wrote: Please describe to us step by step process to go about adding unlimited bitcoins to your wallet file.

It becomes more trivial when you're the developer and have access to the source code, which I believe is what he meant.

That would be awesome. Too bad it's an open source system which pays people each time they find security flaws by cracking encryptions, and is literally flawless by design.

The imagination police strike again to put some of you straight.

Behold! Physical bitcoins! These handy-dandy in your pocket marvels of metal hold a value of btc within each wifi updating unit. It basically adjusts it's own value to match the price of BTC.

At 12/4/13 07:43 PM, 24901miles wrote: That would be awesome. Too bad it's an open source system which pays people each time they find security flaws by cracking encryptions, and is literally flawless by design.

I didn't know it was open source. There must be utilities that manage the system though.

At 12/4/13 07:57 PM, Entice wrote: I didn't know it was open source. There must be utilities that manage the system though.

Most of the gripes [people] (not naming names) have with Bitcoin can dismissed just by googling a bit about it. If you didn't take comp sci in school or study it sometime, it might be a bit more difficult to understand what's physically happening in the bitcoin network. But you can still get an understanding of why it's secure, why it's sometimes not secure, and why it's almost "too capitalist" to be used the way the Dollar is used.

Watch this video.

At 12/4/13 08:07 PM, 24901miles wrote: Most of the gripes [people] (not naming names) have with Bitcoin can dismissed just by googling a bit about it. If you didn't take comp sci in school or study it sometime, it might be a bit more difficult to understand what's physically happening in the bitcoin network.

I wasn't griping or arguing with you, but okay

At 12/4/13 07:44 PM, Psycho666 wrote: The imagination police strike again to put some of you straight.

Behold! Physical bitcoins! These handy-dandy in your pocket marvels of metal hold a value of btc within each wifi updating unit. It basically adjusts it's own value to match the price of BTC.

Dude, that's more retarded than normal bitcoins

What happens when you drop your $1000 coin in the storm drain?

At 12/4/13 08:07 PM, 24901miles wrote: Watch this video.

Bitcoin is still absolutely god awful, and I don't even know why I'm still "arguing" about it, because I know it's just gonna inevitably fail anyways.

At 12/4/13 08:09 PM, Entice wrote: I wasn't griping or arguing with you, but okay

Not you. But you should watch that video.

At 12/4/13 07:22 PM, Xenomit wrote:

At 12/4/13 07:19 PM, Feoric wrote: Please describe to us step by step process to go about adding unlimited bitcoins to your wallet file.

Any skilled hacker can very easily destroy the entire thing. As I've said a ton already, the same can be applied to banks, but it's a lot harder to get away with, and there's money insurance, not to mention the people who don't use banks.

No, they can't, because to crack the encryption method bitcoin uses (SHA-256) you'd need thousands of years and orders of magnitude more computing power than has ever existed in the history of mankind. 2^256 is an unimaginably huge number. It would take more energy than the sun outputs in its entire lifetime to count this number (and other fun facts).

At 12/4/13 08:16 PM, Feoric wrote: No, they can't, because to crack the encryption method bitcoin uses (SHA-256) you'd need thousands of years and orders of magnitude more computing power than has ever existed in the history of mankind. 2^256 is an unimaginably huge number. It would take more energy than the sun outputs in its entire lifetime to count this number (and other fun facts).

I never said crack the encryption. I said destroy the entire network. I was well aware of the encryption method.