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At 9/15/13 02:46 PM, Raab wrote: for fucks sake people they are mice.

They are pests. vermin.

Millions are killed every year in terrible inhumane ways.

This is not animal cruelty.

This is somebody who probably found mice in her cookware and trapped them and taught them a fucking lesson.

If you want to coexist with man.... get the fuck out of our way.

I would like you to volunteer to put yourself in a large container, and have someone tip hot scalding water on you.

Then we'll see who says it isn't cruelty.

At 9/15/13 02:46 PM, Raab wrote: for fucks sake people they are mice.

They are pests. vermin.

Millions are killed every year in terrible inhumane ways.

This is not animal cruelty.

This is somebody who probably found mice in her cookware and trapped them and taught them a fucking lesson.

If you want to coexist with man.... get the fuck out of our way.

sociopathic behavior can present itself as deriving pleasure from torturing small animals

i mean beyond the childhood pastime of burning ants with a magnifying glass

At 9/15/13 02:46 PM, Raab wrote: This is not animal cruelty.

Not sure if srs.

At 9/15/13 02:57 PM, Raab wrote: You piece of shit. do you have any idea how many mice are killed inhumanely each day so you can eat your fucking captain crunch cereal without rodent hair/shit in it?

Its a different story when the pests are in YOUR house or putting a negative spin on your lifestyle.

Why don't you volunteer to be glued to the floor and starved to death?

Why don't you volunteer to have your intestines dissolve while you are still alive?

Why don't you volunteer to have your back snapped in fucking half and die that way you inbred retard.

Ya, I'm the piece of shit when you're advocating scalding something alive that is fully concious and has nerve endings. Right. That other people are either too cruel or lazy to kill a problem animal humanely isn't my problem, and is irrelevant.

No, it's not a different story. Because I'm not some psychopath who tortures small animals. If I have an animal problem, I ensure it is taken care of with minimal suffering. I don't scald it with boiling water and laugh about it. If I have a half-alive mouse in a trap, I take it out with a shovel. Clean and quick.

People should kill the animal on the glueboard first. Not that it matters, they're illegal where I live.

Poison doesn't work like that.

I'd rather have a clean break to the neck that being boiled to death.

At 9/15/13 02:57 PM, Raab wrote: Its a different story when the pests are in YOUR house or putting a negative spin on your lifestyle.

Were you beaten up as a child that you have to take it out on something that can't defend itself? Some people have principles. You seem to have none.

At 9/15/13 02:52 PM, GavinB wrote: I would like you to volunteer to put yourself in a large container, and have someone tip hot scalding water on you.

Then we'll see who says it isn't cruelty.

I'd argue it was not the same but I fear you wouldn't understand that. Hell I will do it anyway.

Although what they did was cruel, it's not the same as doing it to a human.

For one, a Rodent would die almost instantly while a human might take a few seconds longer, making the human suffer more. Not only that but it is an animal, sure it is living and breathing but it is not conscious of itself. I'm not saying that makes it right, but if you were to boil a human it would feel pain on an emotional level while a rodent would only feel it on a physical one. Another point being boiling a human is against the law in most parts of the world, while doing the same to a rodent is not. Again, this doesn't justify boiling a rodent, but I want you to see that it is not the same.
Finally, rodents have always been treated badly....Just because this story made the news doesnt make it worse than say... a mouse trap. Mouse traps in many cases dont kill the rodent but slowly suffocate it. Do people who use mouse traps make the headlines and or get articles and pictures taken of them? No. Using the childish argument "Well what if YOU were that rodent/boiled alive!?" doesn't hold up in that it is not the same at all.

Not one bit.

At 9/15/13 03:13 PM, Imouto wrote: For one, a Rodent would die almost instantly while a human might take a few seconds longer, making the human suffer more.

way more than a few seconds, which even further disproves his stupid appeal to emotion

oh no some mice died wow so sad lets have a moment of silence wow what a tragedy

At 9/15/13 03:13 PM, Imouto wrote: For one, a Rodent would die almost instantly while a human might take a few seconds longer, making the human suffer more. Not only that but it is an animal, sure it is living and breathing but it is not conscious of itself. I'm not saying that makes it right, but if you were to boil a human it would feel pain on an emotional level while a rodent would only feel it on a physical one. Another point being boiling a human is against the law in most parts of the world, while doing the same to a rodent is not. Again, this doesn't justify boiling a rodent, but I want you to see that it is not the same.
Finally, rodents have always been treated badly....Just because this story made the news doesnt make it worse than say... a mouse trap. Mouse traps in many cases dont kill the rodent but slowly suffocate it. Do people who use mouse traps make the headlines and or get articles and pictures taken of them? No. Using the childish argument "Well what if YOU were that rodent/boiled alive!?" doesn't hold up in that it is not the same at all.

Not one bit.

The point of the comparison was to show that boiling anything alive is pretty vile, and absolutely painful. I'm not taking in a legal sense, but how it feels. Your claim that it is not concious of itself has no basis, and even if that's true, the animal still experiences the agony. Anyone who has had a rat as a pet will tell you they are intelligent animals, and have their own little personalities, like a small dog. They are also used in studies of mental disorders such as depression.

It doesn't take away the fact that it's sick.

At 9/15/13 03:19 PM, GavinB wrote: The point of the comparison was to show that boiling anything alive is pretty vile

wow thanks I didnt know that

I'm not taking in a legal sense, but how it feels. Your claim that it is not concious of itself has no basis, and even if that's true, the animal still experiences the agony. Anyone who has had a rat as a pet will tell you they are intelligent animals, and have their own little personalities, like a small dog. They are also used in studies of mental disorders such as depression.

Im pretty sure there is a big difference between being boiled alive for a few seconds and being boiled alive for a few minutes

It doesn't take away the fact that it's sick.

doesnt take away the fact that it was an incredibly bad comparison and appeal to emotion

they're just animals. they're not even the good kind of animal which is useful to humans. i'd sooner cry over spilled milk than some dead mice. you can't drink mice

--supergandhi64

Here everyone's arguing so let me put a new spin on it.
Mice are vermin, we don't want them in our house. We put out traps and shit to get rid of them. Sure no one would want to be in their position. No sane person enjoys killing animals. Which is why we don't brag about it. I think where this story gets fucked up is where the girls boil the mice and post about it. Like it's something funny.
If i were the girls If i'd put in that much effort to catch three mice, I'd go throw them in the woods. Not torture them for some likes on Facebook..

Who boils live rodents? Why, people who are really hungry, that's who.

At 9/15/13 03:26 PM, daethdrain wrote: funny video

I like the second part when he impregnated Dusty, too bad it was taken down.

At 9/15/13 03:19 PM, Raab wrote: ...but the bottom line is without pest removal we as human beings would have completely shit and unsanitary living conditions.

Are ANY of these ways of killing pests "humane?"

No.

So why do you bat a fucking eye at what one person did to three rodents in the privacy of their own home.

Not against pest removal you fucktard. Yeah, there are humane ways of killing small animals. Like a break to the fucking neck. You clearly have no experience on how to euthanise a small animal such as a rodent.

Because they posted it publicly and had a laugh about it. What they did was torture no matter how much you want to paint it as pest control. I will also link this article to you again. It shows there's a distinction between killing a pest and torturing it to death. The latter is animal cruelty and is illegal. Do you think this is normal behaviour??

In addition.... people prepare live food all the fucking time.
That's right. The very food that you eat is probably more inhumane that what some trash did to these mice.

Not in Australia they don't. The food that I eat? And how do you know what I eat, eh? How does that change how fucking cruel it is boil a live mouse again?

There are various documentaries about how the livestock, cattle, chickens, pigs, etc. are forced to live their entire lives in cruel and inhumane environments.

but lets cry and complain about mice.

The same mice that you would sooner see dead in a trap than you would in your bed trying to catch some z's with you.

Cruelty is still cruelty. And these "same mice", I wouldn't torture to death with scalding water.

Glue traps are considered to be the "most humane" of all the traps listed thus far.

Wrong. They are considered to be one of the most inhumane.

Newsflash fucktard.... 90% of the time what happens in the rodent has its limbs broken and then it scurries off.... or it gets its fucking leg caught and it must gnaw it off or just lay there and die.

Do you even know what a snap trap is designed for?

Come back to me when you know the difference between humanely euthanising an animal, and torturing it to death. Sociopathic fuckwit.

At 9/15/13 03:19 PM, GavinB wrote: The point of the comparison was to show that boiling anything alive is pretty vile, and absolutely painful. I'm not taking in a legal sense, but how it feels. Your claim that it is not concious of itself has no basis, and even if that's true, the animal still experiences the agony. Anyone who has had a rat as a pet will tell you they are intelligent animals, and have their own little personalities, like a small dog. They are also used in studies of mental disorders such as depression.

It doesn't take away the fact that it's sick.

That is an opinion yeah, and I agree that it was not right. And yes, my claim has a basis. Humans are the only things that are self-conscious. This is common knowledge.
You completely ignored some of my other arguments that the only reason we are discussing this now is because people made a big deal about it...this kinda stuff and worse happen everyday.
Rats are animals, and animals are seen as food/property to many people. Although I don't completely agree with that, its a belief.
Rats are used as test subjects/studies yeah... wait a minute. Isnt that cruel (going by your logic) in itself? You claim rats have depression (not proven) yet how do scientists learn these things? Rats are mistreated everyday and are used to benefit humans. Scientist who conduct these students are not trying to find a cure for rats, but for humans. So even someone as smart as scientists agree that rats are killed everyday to benefit a better cause: Humans. So you see its not the same. Humans are more important.
I believe even comparing a rat to a dog is not accurate as dogs have been bred next to humans for hundreds of years but that's not important right now.

It is not the same as boiling a human, and although this act can be seen as wrong and cruel, you shouldn't compare it to that.

At 9/15/13 03:21 PM, BumFodder wrote: Im pretty sure there is a big difference between being boiled alive for a few seconds and being boiled alive for a few minutes

What does that even mean? We don't know how long it took them to die. You're also assuming a human being can survive being immersed at boiling point for a few minutes.

At 9/15/13 03:35 PM, GavinB wrote:

At 9/15/13 03:21 PM, BumFodder wrote: Im pretty sure there is a big difference between being boiled alive for a few seconds and being boiled alive for a few minutes

What does that even mean? We don't know how long it took them to die. You're also assuming a human being can survive being immersed at boiling point for a few minutes.

When you throw a lobster into a boiling pot it dies almost instantly. Why would a rodent last much longer? Its extremely obvious when they die, im not sure what you are on about. Also have you ever heard of full body water burns?

aye everybody gavinb just said he sucks mouse dick

At 9/15/13 03:33 PM, Imouto wrote: That is an opinion yeah, and I agree that it was not right. And yes, my claim has a basis. Humans are the only things that are self-conscious. This is common knowledge.

Chimpanzees and dolphins are self-conscious, and arguably some other animals too. In fact, certain primates have the intelligence of a small child.

You completely ignored some of my other arguments that the only reason we are discussing this now is because people made a big deal about it...this kinda stuff and worse happen everyday.

Your point being?

Rats are used as test subjects/studies yeah... wait a minute. Isnt that cruel (going by your logic) in itself? You claim rats have depression (not proven) yet how do scientists learn these things? Rats are mistreated everyday and are used to benefit humans. Scientist who conduct these students are not trying to find a cure for rats, but for humans. So even someone as smart as scientists agree that rats are killed everyday to benefit a better cause: Humans. So you see its not the same. Humans are more important.

The treatment of lab animals is heavily relegated, and you have to jump through a lot of loops and hurdles to even get permission to use them in research. If any researcher today boiled a live mouse, they would be in trouble. There are animal models of depression. It is well established that animals can suffer from depression. I can cite you some journals if you want.

I believe even comparing a rat to a dog is not accurate as dogs have been bred next to humans for hundreds of years but that's not important right now.

People liken them as similar to small dogs because they can show affection and can be taught tricks. That dogs have been domesticated for longer is besides the point and is not what is being compared. More like comparing characteristics.

It is not the same as boiling a human, and although this act can be seen as wrong and cruel, you shouldn't compare it to that.

You are missing the point of the comparison.

At 9/15/13 03:36 PM, BumFodder wrote: When you throw a lobster into a boiling pot it dies almost instantly. Why would a rodent last much longer? Its extremely obvious when they die, im not sure what you are on about. Also have you ever heard of full body water burns?

Because they didn't immerse them in boiling water, they poured it over them, thus lengthening the suffering. One of them even said so themselves on that Facebook link where they were being publicly slammed for it.

Water burns can happen at below boiling point. How can a human possibly survive being fully in 100C water for longer than a few minutes?

Why are you defending these people?

At 9/15/13 03:44 PM, GavinB wrote:

Chimpanzees and dolphins are self-conscious, and arguably some other animals too. In fact, certain primates have the intelligence of a small child.

No they are not

The treatment of lab animals is heavily relegated, and you have to jump through a lot of loops and hurdles to even get permission to use them in research.

The fact that they are test subjects at all is what I was saying.

People liken them as similar to small dogs because they can show affection and can be taught tricks. That dogs have been domesticated for longer is besides the point and is not what is being compared. More like comparing characteristics.

Ok, I will give you this one. But I have never heard any one compare the loyalty and love of a dog to that of a rat

You are missing the point of the comparison.

You were arguing a boiling a human is like boiling a rat, I showed you otherwise.

I eat sashimi all the time at my local restaurant. There's plenty of sushi joints that will only provide the freshest of fish and cut them up while alive and serve it to you fast. Some even still move while on the plate. It's cruel but sometimes for culinary art, it's what you sacrifice. The taste of your meal is much determined by freshness and in most parts of the world, they kill and serve right away or even eat while still alive.

1. I don't even see the mice in the boiling pot in the second picture. 2. No one knows if they ate them or not. 3. No difference between you torturing animals by traps or killing insects for fun as a kid. None. Everything feels pain. It might not be the severe pain as mammals feel but it's still pain and a soul you've vanished.

The killing of any living thing should be considered cruel if you all want to get all butt hurt about it. And yes, we can survive without eating living creatures.

At 9/15/13 03:44 PM, GavinB wrote: Chimpanzees and dolphins are self-conscious, and arguably some other animals too. In fact, certain primates have the intelligence of a small child.

Uh no theyre not, they are just able to recognise that an image is theirself. Theyre nowhere near being sapient.

At 9/15/13 03:23 PM, Jomillex wrote: Here everyone's arguing so let me put a new spin on it.

If i were the girls If i'd put in that much effort to catch three mice, I'd go throw them in the woods. Not torture them for some likes on Facebook..

I wouldn't call that spin, you are 100% correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NHFDcBwggM

At 9/15/13 03:54 PM, BumFodder wrote:

At 9/15/13 03:44 PM, GavinB wrote: Chimpanzees and dolphins are self-conscious, and arguably some other animals too. In fact, certain primates have the intelligence of a small child.

Uh no theyre not, they are just able to recognise that an image is theirself. Theyre nowhere near being sapient.

Yes they are.