Bradley Manning Request Pardon

[Tony-DarkGrave]

U.S. soldier Bradley Manning, who is now referring to himself as "Chelsea Manning," is seeking a presidential pardon for sending classified information to WikiLeaks, which he says he did "out of a love for my country and sense of duty to others," according to documents released Wednesday.
Manning's lawyer, David Coombs, sent the Petition for Pardon/Commutation of Sentence on Tuesday to President Barack Obama through the U.S. Justice Department, and to Army Secretary John M. McHugh.The White House said last month that any Manning request for a presidential pardon would be considered like any other.
Manning is serving a 35-year sentence for disclosing the classified military and diplomatic information while working as an intelligence analyst in Iraq in 2010.
It was the largest-volume leak of classified material in U.S. history. Manning got the longest sentence ever for disclosing U.S. government secrets to others for publication.

Source

How cute guess he really doesn't think he did anything wrong and trying to get out of the consequences of his own actions.

[Camarohusky]

At 9/10/13 12:57 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: he says he did "out of a love for my country and sense of duty to others,"

Bull. Shit.

He did it because he was angry at his platoon for making gay jokes at him and treating him poorly.

[Feoric]

I'm not sure what's there to discuss. He's not getting pardoned. That's it. Unless this is just another Bradley Manning bash thread, which it most likely is.

[Korriken]

At 9/10/13 10:41 AM, Feoric wrote: I'm not sure what's there to discuss. He's not getting pardoned. That's it. Unless this is just another Bradley Manning bash thread, which it most likely is.

*shrug*

doesn't hurt to try. What does he have to lose?

[TheKlown]

At 9/10/13 10:33 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 9/10/13 12:57 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: he says he did "out of a love for my country and sense of duty to others,"

Bull. Shit.

He did it because he was angry at his platoon for making gay jokes at him and treating him poorly.

There's a lot more gays in the Military than you think, and I don't think they ripped on him for being gay. If anything they ripped on him for changing his gender which is in my personal opinion weird/odd. He went from an ugly guy, to an ugly shemale. I'll never consider anyone a real Woman for changing their gender because they were born the way god intended them to be.

[Idiot-Finder]

At 9/10/13 12:57 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

How cute guess he really doesn't think he did anything wrong and trying to get out of the consequences of his own actions.

So he had a sex change surgery in hope of making people more hesitant to put him into prison because he's a woman and now he wanted a pardon to be given out to him?

I really don't recall pardon working that way.

The first part was already weird enough but this is getting ridiculous. At least Daniel Ellsburg didn't try to run when he did what he did and Snowden at least did change his gender. Don't get me wrong, I do support the two but in Bradley Manning's case, this is...I don't know how to describe this.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 9/10/13 01:55 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote:

At 9/10/13 12:57 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

How cute guess he really doesn't think he did anything wrong and trying to get out of the consequences of his own actions.

So he had a sex change surgery in hope of making people more hesitant to put him into prison because he's a woman and now he wanted a pardon to be given out to him?

never said anything about his gender, also he hasn't and won't be getting hormone therapy in prison. no I was talking about his supposed rights as a whistleblower and how he was only trying to "do good".

[orangebomb]

At 9/10/13 12:57 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: which he says he did "out of a love for my country and sense of duty to others,"

If he really did love his country, then he wouldn't do what he did at all. When you put material that was confidential and not for public consumption, especially after taking a military oath to defend America and not try to sabotage it, you deserve to be in jail, and frankly he should be lucky that he only got 35 years instead of life or a date with Ol' Sparky. {Yes, I know that they don't have the electric chair executions anymore, but that's not the point.}

The best thing that Manning needs to do is to shut the hell up and not paint a bigger bulls-eye on him than it already is. Manning has about the same chance of pardon as Tookie Williams had at escaping the death penalty for what he did in prison, which is why I continue to say that if you do a crime, then be prepared to do the time.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 9/10/13 10:45 PM, orangebomb wrote: The best thing that Manning needs to do is to shut the hell up and not paint a bigger bulls-eye on him than it already is. Manning has about the same chance of pardon as Tookie Williams had at escaping the death penalty for what he did in prison, which is why I continue to say that if you do a crime, then be prepared to do the time.

yup he did the crime he should do the time. what he leaked was wrong it was classified for a reason.

[BumFodder]

The american government is so stupid. Theyre not even attempting to look hide the fact that they dont want to be transparent, usually with flimsy and vague excuses such as MUH NATIONAL SECURITY, even though nothing sensitive has been revealed. They dont want the blame for their soldiers actions, they want to cover it all up and only want to prosecute the people who carry out the actions against civilians rather than admit it was also their own fault.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 9/11/13 12:07 PM, BumFodder wrote: The american government is so stupid. Theyre not even attempting to look hide the fact that they dont want to be transparent, usually with flimsy and vague excuses such as MUH NATIONAL SECURITY, even though nothing sensitive has been revealed.

regardless those diplomat cable are confidential. and he still broke the law. and they had to take operators out of quite a few areas due to it.

They dont want the blame for their soldiers actions, they want to cover it all up and only want to prosecute the people who carry out the actions against civilians rather than admit it was also their own fault.

what happened to those civilians was tragic but they requested authorization by command and at the time you have to make the choice and they did. the board that reviews such operations for wrongdoing found nothing wrong and nothing criminal about it so it was dropped.

[BumFodder]

At 9/11/13 12:45 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: regardless those diplomat cable are confidential. and he still broke the law. and they had to take operators out of quite a few areas due to it.

I thought you liked your rights against the government? The american government regularly breaks the law which effects its own citizens as well as foreign ones and gets away with it, but if someone commits a (literally) victimless crime in the name of transparency, they have to go to prison for it.

what happened to those civilians was tragic but they requested authorization by command and at the time you have to make the choice and they did. the board that reviews such operations for wrongdoing found nothing wrong and nothing criminal about it so it was dropped.

Actually quite a few american soldiers have been put on trial for what they have done and because of what he leaked and a few convicted. I found a list on wikipedia but I cant seem to find it again.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 9/11/13 01:18 PM, BumFodder wrote: but if someone commits a (literally) victimless crime in the name of transparency, they have to go to prison for it.

in this case there was no need for a case of transparency all this guy did was leak government files because they refused to give him a discharge disgruntled he did what he did.

Actually quite a few american soldiers have been put on trial for what they have done and because of what he leaked and a few convicted. I found a list on wikipedia but I cant seem to find it again.

yes but the ones in the videos he leaked ask for AUTHORIZATION to engage there is a difference I've seen the list you speak of it talks about people who went on sprees, rapes or the idiots in Abu Graihb.

[BumFodder]

At 9/11/13 01:38 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: in this case there was no need for a case of transparency all this guy did was leak government files because they refused to give him a discharge disgruntled he did what he did.

He did do it because he wasnt happy with the military, but there was a need for transparency. The government was denying that these kind of things happened.

yes but the ones in the videos he leaked ask for AUTHORIZATION to engage there is a difference I've seen the list you speak of it talks about people who went on sprees, rapes or the idiots in Abu Graihb.

Thats true, but I guess a lot of people think the military and their government can do no bad and this is for those kind of people. Since 9/11 the american government has gotten worse and worse.

[orangebomb]

At 9/11/13 05:31 PM, BumFodder wrote: He did do it because he wasnt happy with the military, but there was a need for transparency. The government was denying that these kind of things happened.

That doesn't justify what Manning did, and if he wasn't happy with the military, then he should not have signed up in the first place. People don't like it when someone that they trust to do the right thing spills out their dirty laundry, right or wrong.

Thats true, but I guess a lot of people think the military and their government can do no bad and this is for those kind of people. Since 9/11 the american government has gotten worse and worse.

No one says that the government or the military does everything right, but there are governments out there that do a lot worse things than anything we've have done, and a lot of them get away with it.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 9/11/13 05:31 PM, BumFodder wrote: He did do it because he wasnt happy with the military, but there was a need for transparency. The government was denying that these kind of things happened.

once again no need for transparency. it was just some dick kid who wanted to get back. the need for transparency was not a issue here seeing as they were taken care of internally by oversight officials. and if we need so much fucking transparency how about we just start posting missile and nuke launch codes? you know in the name of transparency.

Thats true, but I guess a lot of people think the military and their government can do no bad and this is for those kind of people. Since 9/11 the american government has gotten worse and worse.

oh they've done some bad and it comes to light but it really depends on what it is, like Abu Graihb and those marines who killed people.

[morefngdbs]

So the way I see it ...you go to jail for reporting about some criminal activities, that your bosses refuse to respond to your complaints, so you then report it to an outside agency ...meaning you are committing a crime. Which is why many of you are saying the same old tired Government propaganda cliche's 'do the time , done the crime ' blah blah blah

but some of what mr/ms/ms/mrs Manning reported shows/proves real criminal acts happening, yet those people/criminals are not charged with their crimes (for example helicopter killing innocents) missile/drone attacks killing innocent children , women noncombatants.

Not one of you, who IMO are so quick to jump on the bandwagon , showing everyone in the good little government NSA organization what loyal mouth pieces... following the party line "Heil Amerka" & none of you have any problem with those crimes ...nope most of you are all KILL THE MESSENGER ....don't LISTEN TO THE MESSAGE !

& some wonder where the term sheeple has come from , & why it is so often quoted at you who hate it ...!

When the shoe fits ~;p

[Tony-DarkGrave]

lol those so called "criminal activities" were decisive decisions they had to make at the time with what they had and when a review board did a investigation to see if any wrong doing at the time (with what evidence the helicopter crew had at the time) they were found not guilty they even requested authorization to engage by the military advisors. what he leaked was unessecary and broke the LAW seeing as he signed a contract that he wouldn't do that.

[BumFodder]

At 9/14/13 05:59 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: lol those so called "criminal activities" were decisive decisions they had to make at the time with what they had and when a review board did a investigation to see if any wrong doing at the time (with what evidence the helicopter crew had at the time) they were found not guilty they even requested authorization to engage by the military advisors. what he leaked was unessecary and broke the LAW seeing as he signed a contract that he wouldn't do that.

its pretty common for the usa to bomb weddings because have a procession of vehicles, and a lot more of them were revealed after he leaked them

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 9/14/13 06:02 PM, BumFodder wrote: its pretty common for the usa to bomb weddings because have a procession of vehicles, and a lot more of them were revealed after he leaked them

see above they worked with what they had and it was collateral within reason. they did a investigation and review.

[morefngdbs]

At 9/14/13 07:38 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 9/14/13 06:02 PM, BumFodder wrote: its pretty common for the usa to bomb weddings because have a procession of vehicles, and a lot more of them were revealed after he leaked them

see above they worked with what they had and it was collateral within reason. they did a investigation and review.

;;;
F -Off with your "investigation & a review."

They had LOUSY intell ...THEY HAD NO Proof ...THey had nothing except a bunch of innocents & they shot first & asked questions later

IF they came into your family Bar-B-Q & did exactly the same thing ....I know for a fact you wouldn't be saying ..."Oh well, its OK they did a review & they had to go on what they had for info at the time Blah, Blah, Blah ..."

If they cannot be 100% sure. Then they shouldn't be given a go.

under your criteria , they might as well just nuke Pakistan ...sure millions of innocents will be killed but thousands of bad guy's will end up dead as well.

Then do Afghanistan, Egypt, Yemen , hell why not Lebanon & Israel . Iraq & Iran.sure it will kill millions of innocents ...but look at the bright side ...the intell says ...there are some bad guy's there as well !

Logic like yours Tony , isn't logic ...its stupidity with B S excuses to try to cover up just how stupid it is. & as in every case under Obama , anyone who points out the screw ups by Government decision makers & those who carry out their orders are punished while those who F-UP ! get off scot free.
Freee to carry on killing & maiming even more innocents !

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 9/15/13 05:15 PM, morefngdbs wrote: They had LOUSY intell ...THEY HAD NO Proof ...THey had nothing except a bunch of innocents & they shot first & asked questions later

IF they came into your family Bar-B-Q & did exactly the same thing ....I know for a fact you wouldn't be saying ..."Oh well, its OK they did a review & they had to go on what they had for info at the time Blah, Blah, Blah ..."

If they cannot be 100% sure. Then they shouldn't be given a go.

take that helicopter video for example, they had were flying about and the people were suspicious one had a camera (mistaken for a RPG) they had to make a decision possibly get fired upon or let them go, or engage. they requested to engage and they did. sure its sucky collateral damage but it was a important decision as it was 2007 and some of Iraq areas were still hot zones. it was a perceived decide or die decision and they had to make one with what they had at the time.

under your criteria , they might as well just nuke Pakistan ...sure millions of innocents will be killed but thousands of bad guy's will end up dead as well.

Then do Afghanistan, Egypt, Yemen , hell why not Lebanon & Israel . Iraq & Iran.sure it will kill millions of innocents ...but look at the bright side ...the intell says ...there are some bad guy's there as well !

and you act like america is some evil entity out to get everyone.

Logic like yours Tony , isn't logic ...its stupidity with B S excuses to try to cover up just how stupid it is. & as in every case under Obama , anyone who points out the screw ups by Government decision makers & those who carry out their orders are punished while those who F-UP ! get off scot free.
Freee to carry on killing & maiming even more innocents !

[Entice]

At 9/10/13 12:36 PM, TheKlown wrote: which is in my personal opinion weird/odd.

No one cares.

He went from an ugly guy, to an ugly shemale.

So? Should people only be allowed to change their gender if they're attractive? Isn't there such a thing as an ugly woman?

I'll never consider anyone a real Woman for changing their gender because they were born the way god intended them to be.

Please kill yourself and stop trying to derail threads with your hateful post diarrhea

On topic, Bradley Manning isn't going to get pardoned and I don't think he should be. Why don't you try to keep this in one thread instead of making a new eyehatebradley thread every time there's a new development.

[BumFodder]

At 9/14/13 07:38 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 9/14/13 06:02 PM, BumFodder wrote: its pretty common for the usa to bomb weddings because have a procession of vehicles, and a lot more of them were revealed after he leaked them

see above they worked with what they had and it was collateral within reason. they did a investigation and review.

Theyre far too hasty with drones though, they should confirm their targets before attacking if no one is in immediate danger.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 9/16/13 03:24 PM, BumFodder wrote: Theyre far too hasty with drones though, they should confirm their targets before attacking if no one is in immediate danger.

no the Obomba Administration are complete idiots when it comes to drones especially when they kill US citizens without trial.

[AxTekk]

At 9/15/13 05:15 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

At 9/14/13 07:38 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 9/14/13 06:02 PM, BumFodder wrote: its pretty common for the usa to bomb weddings because have a procession of vehicles, and a lot more of them were revealed after he leaked them

see above they worked with what they had and it was collateral within reason. they did a investigation and review.

They had LOUSY intell ...THEY HAD NO Proof ...THey had nothing except a bunch of innocents & they shot first & asked questions later

THIS is why I'm pretty much pacifist. It's a cliché to say that "collateral damage" is inevitable, but it shouldn't be.

War creates situations that require the killing of innocents for the survival of British (or American) soldiers. I wouldn't argue that these soldiers should just let themselves die, and yet who could argue that it's acceptable for innocents to be killed in the thousands by foreigners with machine guns and helicopters for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Although sometimes necessary, war is fucking horrible and should never be welcomed. I think we got it right in Libya though, we were backing a popular uprising, only put Special Forces on the ground, some air support in the sky and a few missile strikes, and the Libyan public support the West partially due to that. A long term commitment that will necessarily cost civilian lives in four digits though... I think it would be different if the children of the political class were equally represented in the army.

On topic - Bradley Manning doesn't have a hope. I have no idea how he doesn't know it by now. The US does not take fondly to whistleblowers or military personnel disregarding their duty, especially when they didn't have the purest motives to do so. His gender's actually pretty irrelevant to that much.

[aviewaskewed]

At 9/10/13 12:57 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: U.S. soldier Bradley Manning, who is now referring to himself as "Chelsea Manning," is seeking a presidential pardon for sending classified information to WikiLeaks,

Wow...just wow...he thinks he has a shot at this? I mean...even for the people that support the guy...can you seriously think you have a shot at this?

which he says he did "out of a love for my country and sense of duty to others," according to documents released Wednesday.

Naaaaaah. While it's not the open and shut case of maliciousness to me that the Valerie Plame scandal was/is, it is AT BEST a case of a misguided individual getting his hands on shit well above his pay grade and just bombing it onto a whistle blowing site without having really read, or understood what it was he was disclosing or the jeopardy and harm he could be putting people in. I'm all for whistle blowing and protecting whistle blowers. But not all instances of dropping secrets the government doesn't want out there is a courageous or justifiable action.

Manning's lawyer, David Coombs, sent the Petition for Pardon/Commutation of Sentence on Tuesday to President Barack Obama through the U.S. Justice Department, and to Army Secretary John M. McHugh.

Good luck with that. I'm guessing the last we'll hear on this is the denial of the pardon because this a complete "out of options" Hail Mary on Coombs part here.

The White House said last month that any Manning request for a presidential pardon would be considered like any other.

Well, except the de-facto ones President's give each other so that any and all nefarious shit they have/may have done in office they can never get pursued on...

Manning is serving a 35-year sentence for disclosing the classified military and diplomatic information while working as an intelligence analyst in Iraq in 2010.

He will continue to do so. No parole there that I can see, damn sure no commutation.

[aviewaskewed]

At 9/16/13 06:35 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: no the Obomba Administration are complete idiots when it comes to drones especially when they kill US citizens without trial.

First, I agree there should have been a trial.

Second, let's please not act like Al-Alwaki was a citizen in good standing or something. He was an Al-Qaida recruiter, he supported terrorism, he was clearly a traitor. Yes, we should have tried him for treason, found him guilty, and then proceeded to punishment. The use of drones in that situation is not justifiable and sets a potentially dangerous precedent.

But let's not muddy the waters by leaving out names and acting like they are killing citizens in good standing. They are not. But they are definitely trigger happy with their military toys, but that's not much different then the last administration who started two wars that they didn't finish, and the administration before that that did some wag the dog police actions to distract from scandal.

Also allegations of a serious nature have been made about the Abu Gharib situation that paint it in a much more sinister light...

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 9/17/13 12:02 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: Second, let's please not act like Al-Alwaki was a citizen in good standing or something. He was an Al-Qaida recruiter, he supported terrorism, he was clearly a traitor. Yes, we should have tried him for treason, found him guilty, and then proceeded to punishment. The use of drones in that situation is not justifiable and sets a potentially dangerous precedent.

Alwaki just made youtube videos a magazine and blog sure he was with terrorists and a traitor, but drones really? any fucking monkey could have done his job. also what about Alwaki's 15 year old son who the Obomba administration said he was of military age and possibly involved when he wasn't?

Also allegations of a serious nature have been made about the Abu Gharib situation that paint it in a much more sinister light...

the Abu Gharib situation was settled right with the appropriate action against those groups of soldiers.

[aviewaskewed]

At 9/17/13 02:23 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Alwaki just made youtube videos a magazine and blog sure he was with terrorists and a traitor, but drones really?

Did you not get the part where I agreed the assassination was wrong? My objection was purely over you saying "American citizen" and not identifying the citizen in question who was a known recruiter and sympathizer involved with al-qaeda who had renounced his citizenship and thrown in with the enemy. A treason conviction was a slam dunk. This was NOT someone in good standing. But I still agree there should have been a trial and we need to use the process. My problem with YOU saying it is you're picking and choosing like everyone on the right. Al-Awaki is over the line, but Gitmo is a-ok! Either you believe in due process and doing things right on terror, or you don't. Pick and choose is shit.

any fucking monkey could have done his job.

Is that why 9/11 was only half a success for al-qaeda? You know they wanted a simultaneous west coast attack too right? Know why that didn't happen? I'll tell you: Not enough recruits who could speak English and pass. Recruitment isn't an "any fucking monkey" can do it thing. If it was, organizations that need volunteers (including the US Military) would be rolling in apps and people.

also what about Alwaki's 15 year old son....

Again, we AGREE the attack was wrong and unjustified. My ONLY objection was you obviously knew damn well what case you were citing, but you didn't bring out the names because you just wanted the Pres smeared and you didn't need any of those pesky questions of "why" the drones were called out. You didn't want to do the work debating or defending your position, so you deliberately omitted facts in my opinion and we both know you know better then to do that.

the Abu Gharib situation was settled right with the appropriate action against those groups of soldiers.

Because the government is always right...as long as it's the CIA and the military. Institutions that have lied and covered up numerous times in the past? There have been serious, and investigated allegations that Abu Gharib was a psy ops situation gone bad and the individuals blamed were scapegoated so those that directed it could skate by. That occupation has been all kinds of a catastrofuck.