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Best of June 2013

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Diki
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 9th, 2013 @ 08:20 PM Reply

At 7/9/13 07:53 PM, Gerkinman wrote: And thats what counts right? Its all about the hits because those ads are where newgrounds gets its money.

Not nearly enough money. That's why Tom started the supporter upgrade campaign (which you should donate to; it's only $25). I have a few gripes with the way Newgrounds is run/operated, but as a whole I love the place which is why I donated and why you should too. :)

4urentertainment
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 9th, 2013 @ 08:43 PM Reply

At 7/9/13 07:53 PM, Gerkinman wrote: Maybe you had offers in the past for newgrounds from investors that you turned down for creative control reasons, or maybe nobody has even wanted the content on newgrounds enough to want to invest, I dont know.

Just for the record, Newgrounds has gotten multiple offers for investments, to the point that Tom had to make this big newspost and ask users whether they thought he should take the money or stay independent

And I think that's why Tom gets a bit disgruntled when people compared Newgrounds' business practices to sites like Youtube or Vimeo, who have millions of dollars to throw away without any worries.

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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 9th, 2013 @ 08:49 PM Reply

At 7/9/13 12:56 AM, Diki wrote:
At 7/9/13 12:27 AM, VicariousE wrote: To be fair, it's a big ass selection to vote on :| People vote on what they know.
Well that right there is a huge problem. How can the best be voted for if people won't even bother to watch all of or at least the majority of the submissions before voting?

More than anything I'm bothered by the fact that Raw Latex was awarded the best of June when, in my opinion, it shouldn't have even been in the top 10. Clockwork Gentlemen, Court-Circuit, and Menu, which were the three bottom-ranked submissions, were all unique submissions that had an engaging art style (and didn't have stupid fart and dick jokes) which both made them stand out amongst their peers, which is something we were supposed to be looking for when voting but that clearly didn't happen (half of the winning submissions aren't even original works, two of which are in the top 5).

At 7/9/13 12:27 AM, VicariousE wrote: Maybe everyone with an account should do the monthly voting, then the selected pool can vote on the run-off selections.
My understanding is that that is basically how it works right now. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but the submissions that we voted on for the best of June were all of the daily best and front page movies/games, so we were, in essence, picking the "best of the best".

I couldn't agree more with you.
Also the Flixel tutorial is not in the top_20? A game about making games?
You didn't even have to play through it to AT LEAST place it in your top 10!
I'm just glad 3LIND and The Last Door were recognised.
Also although i didn't vote for Fear Less! i have to mention it was top quality work and i'm really glad for it's developers.


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Gerkinman
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 9th, 2013 @ 09:03 PM Reply

At 7/9/13 08:43 PM, 4urentertainment wrote:
At 7/9/13 07:53 PM, Gerkinman wrote: Maybe you had offers in the past for newgrounds from investors that you turned down for creative control reasons, or maybe nobody has even wanted the content on newgrounds enough to want to invest, I dont know.
Just for the record, Newgrounds has gotten multiple offers for investments, to the point that Tom had to make this big newspost and ask users whether they thought he should take the money or stay independent

And I think that's why Tom gets a bit disgruntled when people compared Newgrounds' business practices to sites like Youtube or Vimeo, who have millions of dollars to throw away without any worries.

A noble gesture im sure, but shooting yourself in the foot like that and then complaining about a lack of funding. I know contracts and creative control can be touchy, but thats what lawyers are for.


DOUBLE POST! BAM! I thought that was fixed.

Twisted4000
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 9th, 2013 @ 09:10 PM Reply

6th place of the month? Agh, so close, but that is my record, so that's a good thing. My favorite movies this month were Man Spaghetti and Mario Tells the Truth.

VicariousE
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 9th, 2013 @ 09:13 PM Reply

At 7/9/13 09:03 PM, Gerkinman wrote: A noble gesture im sure, but shooting yourself in the foot like that and then complaining about a lack of funding. I know contracts and creative control can be touchy, but thats what lawyers are for.

And who wants to feed lawyers? Look at our impotent and toothless Federal and State representatives... they get campaign funds from dubious sources, and are bound to do as they ask (and hire their shills as aides), if elected. It's a significant enough risk to stay independent, IMO.


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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 12:04 AM Reply

I think another issue NG faces is that despite Tom's best efforts to promote any and all artists, there are certain "stars" that get more attention and, as such, more votes. Sexual-Lobster is pretty well known around here and I'm sure that influences a lot of people when it comes voting time. It's no surprise that a person that's well known would beat out an up and comer.

Imagine if I offered you a choice between watching a new flash video by Stamper or SquirrelGuy1999. Which would you choose?


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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 12:09 AM Reply

Sixth place? Gah!!! Soooooo close! Hahaha, congrats to the whinners!


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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 12:56 AM Reply

when all else fails. blame newgrounds. i mean cause you cant exactly pm mark zuckerberg or whoever the fuck owns google/youtube/vimeo whatever.


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Diki
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 01:40 AM Reply

At 7/10/13 12:04 AM, ZJ wrote: I think another issue NG faces is that despite Tom's best efforts to promote any and all artists, there are certain "stars" that get more attention and, as such, more votes.

I was thinking that myself. It seemed that, like most vote-based awards, politics was the most significant influence. Problem is I don't think there's a damn thing that can be done about it. It would be really great if there were a way to vote for the best without knowing whom you are voting for, but I don't know how that would possibly work.

At 7/10/13 12:04 AM, ZJ wrote: Imagine if I offered you a choice between watching a new flash video by Stamper or SquirrelGuy1999. Which would you choose?

Personally I find Stamper insufferably obnoxious so I'll take damn near any person over him. :)

At 7/10/13 12:56 AM, Luis wrote: when all else fails. blame newgrounds. i mean cause you cant exactly pm mark zuckerberg or whoever the fuck owns google/youtube/vimeo whatever.

Mad props to Tom for that. It's also why I respect the shit out of the guy (among other reasons). Over the years I have sent him many PMs and he responded to all of them (even the incredibly stupid ones that I sent back in the day).

You rock, Tom. <3

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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 02:50 AM Reply

It's probably not my position to bitch on the internet about someone, but I really feel like Sexual-Lobster kinda of spams the portal with short and (in my opinion) un-funny content. There are a bunch of animators out there who work on projects for months, and are much longer, that go un-appreciated due to the fact the other animators, including Sexual-Lobster, just have a "credit" of having some good animations.

I feel like it's complete bullshit just because we hard working animators are looking for a place to show-off our content, but the portal is filled with people with high-reputations, leaving us unknown animators to find other ways to compete, or we may just even give up!

I'll i'm saying is, I wish hard working people got in the spotlight more than the other high-rep people.

Just to verify I know what i'm talking about, I saw Raw Latex, and although it was decently long, it was somewhat lazily animated. It's MAINLY symbol movement with little Frame-by-Frame (the real hard-work.)


tfw no face

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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 04:50 AM Reply

Sad to see that Insecto-smash didn't get in. I didn't make this game, but I thought it was a very fun, fast-paced action game. For sure, though, we're still getting some really good content here on Newgrounds, despite all the crap many kids have been submitting lately. I was just happy I got the chance to vote on the nominations. Thanks, P-Bot!

Insecto-smash


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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 07:57 AM Reply

At 7/10/13 02:50 AM, No-Brainer wrote: I'll i'm saying is, I wish hard working people got in the spotlight more than the other high-rep people.

Just to verify I know what i'm talking about, I saw Raw Latex, and although it was decently long, it was somewhat lazily animated. It's MAINLY symbol movement with little Frame-by-Frame (the real hard-work.)

That issue comes up alot. I remember when Adam Phillips first released his first Bitey of Brakenwood, there were some people on here that were mad about it. Like moaning about ooh well he has a background being a professional animator for disney, why is he here on NG grabbing all the spotlight and 'hogging up' all the awards from us people who are just amateurs.

It's a super competitive scene out there, more so now than it was back then. There are people / kids who are dangerously good now it keeps me up at night. I forsee it being tougher over the years to come.

I think, perhaps we could do more to unearth gems, i always enjoyed the treasure hunts and stuff. No other site does that. If you dont have a big cult following, you may as well be nobody on YouTube, you are even more of a nobody on Vimeo. I'd like to think atleast on Newgrounds you have an actual shot at having people enjoy your stuff. Maybe im biased though.


None

Conal
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 08:04 AM Reply

Awesome! Some of my votes got rated "Best".


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Celx-Requin
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 08:13 AM Reply

At 7/9/13 01:25 AM, Gerkinman wrote:
At 7/9/13 12:56 AM, Diki wrote:
At 7/9/13 12:27 AM, VicariousE wrote: To be fair, it's a big ass selection to vote on :| People vote on what they know.
Well that right there is a huge problem. How can the best be voted for if people won't even bother to watch all of or at least the majority of the submissions before voting?

More than anything I'm bothered by the fact that Raw Latex was awarded the best of June when, in my opinion, it shouldn't have even been in the top 10. Clockwork Gentlemen, Court-Circuit, and Menu, which were the three bottom-ranked submissions, were all unique submissions that had an engaging art style (and didn't have stupid fart and dick jokes) which both made them stand out amongst their peers, which is something we were supposed to be looking for when voting but that clearly didn't happen (half of the winning submissions aren't even original works, two of which are in the top 5).
These are the reasons I pretty much just stick to Vimeo now. The staff pics for the animation division are almost always fantastic and fresh little films. Im sure most of them would never even get any recognition on here.

Gerkinman, you are such a hypocrite, I have yet to see one of your films on vimeo get a staff selection, the staff here has put up your submissions on the front page numerous times, so I don't understand why your complaining.

In fact I did a quick vimeo search of your works on the site, and compared the traffic between your work on vimeo, and newgrounds, as well the the comments you've received.

The World Of The Civilized Duck:
Vimeo - 40 views, 0 comments
Newgrounds - 17858 views, 57 comments (some by newgrounds staff).

The Telescope:
Vimeo - 110 views, 0 comments
Newgrounds - 24871 views, 61 comments (and featured on the newgrounds front page).

The Strongest Square:
Vimeo - 4155 views, 0 comments
Newgrounds - 1792 views, 11 comments

Most of your work has gotten more exposure on newgrounds than vimeo, and on every submission you've gotten more comments, in fact you only have 100 followers on vimeo, while on newgrounds you have over 1000.

Also when you say that companies are weary of a portfolio that comes from newgrounds, I find that a little bit disingenuous, I mean ADULT SWIM PAYS SOMEONE TO KEEP A FUCKING NEWGROUNDSaccount!

Isn't adult swim part of cartoon network? And isn't cartoon network one of the biggest animation based channels in the U.S? It's fucking odd that you feel that newgrounds has some kind of stigma attached to it when you know, cartoon network has an official account here.

Even if newgrounds does have some kind of stigma attached to it, it's up to you to cater your resume for your employer, not the other way around.

More to the point though, doing salacious animation work doesn't really have any bearing on a potential employer worth their salt (and being on a website that has some objectionable material even less so), most japanese animators need to cut their teeth in the "hentai" genre, before they can move on the studio productions.

Employers are looking for skill, and talent, they don't give a fuck about content, Bruce Knox is a disney animator and his extremely controversial art work has never affected his employment, newgrounds has no bearing to your employment status, grow the fuck up!

Also there are a shitload of established animators/artists on deviantart, despite all the bad poetry, and perverted my little pony furry foot porn on the site.

Also having a massive audience isn't the only important aspect to surviving as an artist, being able to connect to the right people is equally as important, I mean have you ever heard of Dino and Jake Chapman, or Masami Teraoka?

Probably not because they're work isn't considered pop art, but regardless their art sells for millions, but if they couldn't have there art displayed somewhere due to censorship or some shit they wouldn't get a dime, because NO ONE WOULD KNOW ABOUT THEM...

Emily Youcis was part of a group that cut a deal distribution deal with unearthed films, in part it's because she was able to build a following here, also the girl worked hard to get her work out there, outside of just newgrounds.

Lastly the winners at the end of the month are selected by the newgrounds community, if you don't agree with them then that fucking tough shit, cause newgrounds is a microcosm of life, and in life things aren't always fair.

If your stuff doesn't connect with people then your going to need to make a decision as to whether you want to try to cater to a larger demographic, or keep the integrity of your artistic vision at the potential cost of not garnering as much exposure.

Being upset that Sexual Lobster won over others is lame, he's submitted quality work over the years and if people like his stuff then good for him, he deserves it. Everyone on newgrounds started out as a nobody, if you think that there are submissions that aren't as good as others, be part of the community, leave a review saying why, support the artists you do like and maybe that'll change.

I know that newgrounds helped people like Edmund Mcmilian, and his programmer tommy find his audience, and they went on to make millions with Super Meat Boy, but maybe newgrounds isn't right for you, and If not then hey maybe it's time to leave newgrounds, and find some other avenue more conducive to your end goals.

P.S. writing a comment like "Bliss is maybe one of the best things I have seen on the site in years, I almost feel bad seeing it here, if anything it belongs in the festival circuit.", is petty highschool bullshit, especially when the artist himself was stoked with the response he got.

I'm so upset, I'm gonna need to do a line of blow off a hookers ass just to feel right again.


Watch Shark Black HERE Watch CoolJaw HERE

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TomFulp
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 10:40 AM Reply

Also just tossing this out there, we do have a content embed feature up on our staging server. There's a big publishing system update that is in testing at the moment.


This is the game JohnnyUtah and I have been working on.

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MindChamber
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 10:49 AM Reply

At 7/10/13 08:13 AM, Celx-Requin wrote: Awesome shit.

Slow clap... that's pretty much nails it.. Nothing more to add..
actually, the site needs more update features. and more transparency about when we get them.. But really thats my only complaint... I have. The co-auth system is still light years beyond any other site that does anything remotely similar.

Conal
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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 07:17 PM Reply

At 7/10/13 10:40 AM, TomFulp wrote: Also just tossing this out there, we do have a content embed feature up on our staging server. There's a big publishing system update that is in testing at the moment.

Oh, awesome! Is that for embedding on other sites? Will it work on our posts? I mean, there's already basic html for embedding SWF.


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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 10th, 2013 @ 07:38 PM Reply

I have been reading over some of this thread and wanted to throw in my two cents. Newgrounds is awesome. That could be all I put, but that would be easy, and I am not easy.... anymore :( Newgrounds has the same issues as all the websites that have user based content uploads. Some people get more exposure than others and people feel that X person should get more exposure for Y reasons and it sucks sometimes. One thing that separates Newgrounds from everyone else, other than it being awesome, is you are GUARANTEED views. You can literally upload something on Youtube and the only views you get are the 1-2 you get from self viewing. The portal here insures you get AT LEAST 300 votes. Even more because not everyone who views votes. More votes means more chance for exposure if your work is good and enjoyed by someone. Is it a perfect system? No there are many flaws right now, but there is a staff here that is always trying to make it better. I have been here for over 10 years and have noticed how much work has gone into making this place great! There is much more that I can say and has already been said, but I think the point I wanted to make has been stated. Do people who deserve more "exposure" not get it sometimes? Yes. Do you have more opportunity to be seen and get exposure here? Hell yes!

Also, if you really like something and think it should be seen by more people then share it. There are so many websites out there to get those people's names out there.

Just my thoughts.... hope it made sense.... I tend to ramble and then not proof read things.


II II lI

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Response to Best of June 2013 Jul. 12th, 2013 @ 11:33 PM Reply

Hey Gerkinman I know you're trying to defend my work, but please shut the fuck up. You've gone way beyond giving feedback and now you're just being rude.' Problems with Newgrounds' seems to be your favourite topic of conversation, along with 'problems with Youtube' and 'problems with people on the internet'. If the system isn't catering to what you want then it isn't a problem with the system, it's a matter of compatibility. You could always leave. But for someone that says "I pretty much just stay on vimeo now", I catch you all-too-often making posts on here telling Tom how to do his job.

So the site isn't 'promoting the underdog' as much as it could be. Neither is Youtube or Vimeo. And hey, you know what else isn't? Life. Go and complain about the way reality is set up because it isn't actively promoting the underdog. You just have to be savvy about it and work for it.

I'm just some fuckin kid who grew up in the Tasmanian bush. Now at the age of 20, by writing this forum post I'm neglecting a job I'm working on for Comedy Central, AND a job for the Australian ABC. I've received interest from Cartoon Network. My total works have been seen over 3 million times in total across various platforms, and I receive emails from fans several times a week.

How the hell did that happen? I worked my ass off, and I used multiple tools at my disposal. Newgrounds got the ball rolling more than anything because of the daily awards and front page systems, which help promote up-and-comers better than anything, then they gave me a fucking trophy, and invited me to a party in Philadelphia where I could network with the people from here in person, and I made friends for life. I used gallery spaces to get noticed in my community. I moved out of home about a month after I turned 18 to Melbourne, a place recognised as an animation hub on a global scale, so that I could meet and network with other animators. I enrolled in a course that the teachers said I "didn't need to", so I could use it as a way of meeting animators and breaking into the local scene. I got involved with Loopdeloop, getting my work seen by the local animation community and being able to mingle with them on a monthly basis. I used the push that these things had given me to get a Youtube channel off the ground, which is less friendly than Newgrounds when you're new to the game, but can snowball a lot more once it has momentum. And I use Tumblr as a platform where I can really engage with fans on a more personal level, and as a platform for drawings, work-in-progress, and animation theory. And in future I'm planning on doing the festival run with all my larger films as well.

No single one of those things could've done all the work. It was up to me to use the tools available and understand what they would do. It's not one fucking websites job to give me exposure, any more than it's the job of the universe. It's mine. Sitting back and saying "Newgrounds doesn't do what Youtube or Vimeo or CartoonBrew do" is irrelevant. They all operate in a different way to each other.
And for the record, Newgrounds has been more integral to my exposure than anything else, because it gave me footing to do all those other things. It's also been pretty fucking integral for you, too.

It may not expose your work to "important industry people" like Youtube or festivals, but neither does playing gigs in underground bars. That's not the bar's problem because it isn't how it's designed to operate. It's up to you to find multiple ways to get yourself out there.

So leave Tom alone, he's not gonna wipe your dick for you. If Newgrounds isn't working for you then stop coming here and stay on Youtube or Vimeo or wherever you want. Because it's working for other people the way it is. And as Celx-Requin demonstrated, it actually is working for you anyway. It's one tool at your disposal, and it's good at certain things. It could 'in theory' be better at doing what it does, but it's just a few dudes who are doing better than either of us probably would at making this thing work.