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Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed

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Ranger2
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Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 09:39 PM Reply

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According to the United States and other governments, Bashar al-Assad has used sarin gas several times against the rebels. The United States government is weighing actions to take, from increased sanctions to arming the rebels to even a no-fly zone. Troops on the ground is not an option.

Note that it's not just the United States, the French government has also accused al-Assad of the same thing. What do you think your country's options should be?

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 10:04 PM Reply

just let them kill each other off and the US can deal with the asshole on top.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 10:06 PM Reply

Seems like an excuse to get involved, which I'm fine with, the way the international community has sat back arms crossed for 2 years and done nothing while Syrians rip each other to pieces, commit man rights atrocities and destroy world heritage sites is disgusting. Lets hope this is the beginning of the end for the civil war.


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Fim
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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 10:10 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 10:06 PM, Fim wrote: while Syrians rip each other to pieces, commit man rights atrocities and destroy world heritage sites is disgusting.

Durp. I meant to say *human rights atrocities. Such as the targeting and bombing of hospitals and schools by government forces.

At 6/13/13 10:04 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: just let them kill each other off and the US can deal with the asshole on top.

Yeh what a sympathetic and humanitarian opinion you have there, when it's not you and your family who gives a shit right? Why care about brown people on the other side of the world when it won't affect you.


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Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 10:20 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 10:10 PM, Fim wrote:
At 6/13/13 10:04 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: just let them kill each other off and the US can deal with the asshole on top.
Yeh what a sympathetic and humanitarian opinion you have there, when it's not you and your family who gives a shit right? Why care about brown people on the other side of the world when it won't affect you.

not our problem we're just getting out of Iraq and seeing if we can get out of afghanistan. the US is tired and since this has nothing to do that effects the US in anyway possible we should stay out of, you should see the opinions of the US on Middle Eastern Forum boards.

its best we just let this hash out. plus I never saw you BAAAW about Darfur or the atrocities going on in Burma etc.

Feoric
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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 10:25 PM Reply

I remember the last time the United States built a case about the use of chemical weapons to present to the UN to urge action. I think it was related to a country that borders Syria, but my memory is a little fuzzy right now.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 10:25 PM Reply

My country has no option but wait and defend the border as best as possible. Any aid will not be welcomed.


(הֲבֵל הֲבָלִים אָמַר קֹהֶלֶת, הֲבֵל הֲבָלִים הַכֹּל הָבֶל. דּוֹר הֹלֵךְ וְדוֹר בָּא, וְהָאָרֶץ לְעוֹלָם עֹמָדֶת. (קהלת א ג, ה

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 10:32 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 10:25 PM, satanbrain wrote: My country has no option but wait and defend the border as best as possible. Any aid will not be welcomed.

So if the US helped Israel against Assad forces we wouldn't be welcomed?

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 10:41 PM Reply

As much as i hate whats happening in Syria, i do not think we should have any military involvement in the country and should focus on humanitarian aid instead. If the rebels do overthrow assad, there's no guarantee that whatever system they place will be better. This is highly evident by what happened after Eygypt's old president resigned and that Morsi guy took the reigns as leader. Things sucked over there under the old guy and things still suck as much there now will the new guy.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 11:03 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 10:38 PM, Feoric wrote: Welp, I guess we're gonna fight a multilateral proxy war.

and so Jihadi Salafists will be sporting the somewhat latest in American Military technology in their war against everything UnIslamic.

Everything is going as planned.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 11:20 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 10:20 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
not our problem we're just getting out of Iraq and seeing if we can get out of afghanistan. the US is tired and since this has nothing to do that effects the US in anyway possible we should stay out of, you should see the opinions of the US on Middle Eastern Forum boards.
its best we just let this hash out. plus I never saw you BAAAW about Darfur or the atrocities going on in Burma etc.

'Not our problem' and 'let them hash it out' has been the official strategy for 2 years, and what has that achieved? 100,000 Syrians dead, mostly civilians, and the destruction of 6000 year old world heritage sites that are irreplaceable and have now been lost to the world forever. Doing nothing is a cowardly and regressive suggestion. Saying the US is 'tired' is such a stupid thing to say that it's hardly worth addressing, the US still has a bigger military budget than the next 22 countries combined, they have the muscle to get involved and help out if they wanted to.

Middle eastern opinion of the west may be negative, and for good reasons, so why not do something for the people of that region and change their minds? At the moment the Syrians must notice that the US is only interested in saving people from an oppressive ruler and spreading democracy when the country has oil to exploit.


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Feoric
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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 11:39 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 11:03 PM, Korriken wrote: and so Jihadi Salafists will be sporting the somewhat latest in American Military technology in their war against everything UnIslamic.

The sectarian warfare is first.

Here's a bunch of bigwig Sunni clerics declaring Jihad on Syria, citing that Hezbollah's involvement in Syria (Qusayr, Aleppo) has caused the situation to take a dramatic change. Things are deteriorating way faster than I had expected. It will be a miracle if the sectarian violence doesn't take Lebanon and Iraq down in a full blown regional war.

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 11:53 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 11:20 PM, Fim wrote:
'Not our problem' and 'let them hash it out' has been the official strategy for 2 years, and what has that achieved? 100,000 Syrians dead, mostly civilians, and the destruction of 6000 year old world heritage sites that are irreplaceable and have now been lost to the world forever.

and thats the result of human nature get over it.

Doing nothing is a cowardly and regressive suggestion. Saying the US is 'tired' is such a stupid thing to say that it's hardly worth addressing, the US still has a bigger military budget than the next 22 countries combined, they have the muscle to get involved and help out if they wanted to.

and this all matters how to US citizens? just because we have the best military in the world doesn't mean we come to the aid of every shithole of a country and bale their asses out. how about your country does it instead? we sure as hell aren't sending boots over its not worth it. we have already had 12 years over there thats enough.

we are already sending the rebels Weapons which is a huge game changer and thats good enough now let it play out.

Middle eastern opinion of the west may be negative, and for good reasons, so why not do something for the people of that region and change their minds? At the moment the Syrians must notice that the US is only interested in saving people from an oppressive ruler and spreading democracy when the country has oil to exploit.

I love the oil copout statement. as previously mentioned were sending weapons thats good enough

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 11:54 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 10:32 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
At 6/13/13 10:25 PM, satanbrain wrote: My country has no option but wait and defend the border as best as possible. Any aid will not be welcomed.
So if the US helped Israel against Assad forces we wouldn't be welcomed?

Any israeli aid to the rebels will not be welcomed.


(הֲבֵל הֲבָלִים אָמַר קֹהֶלֶת, הֲבֵל הֲבָלִים הַכֹּל הָבֶל. דּוֹר הֹלֵךְ וְדוֹר בָּא, וְהָאָרֶץ לְעוֹלָם עֹמָדֶת. (קהלת א ג, ה

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 11:54 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 11:53 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: and thats the result of human nature get over it.

let me rephrase the result of conflict from human nature.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 12:09 AM Reply

This "red line" is "oh shit they might actually win now".

At 6/13/13 10:04 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: just let them kill each other off and the US can deal with the asshole on top.

But that like never works. We tried that with Iran and Iraq and both turned out to be powerful dictatorships that extended their middle fingers towards America.......


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 12:14 AM Reply

At 6/13/13 11:53 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: and thats the result of human nature get over it.

hahaha go to hell. You don't know what you're talking about and your views are reprehensible.

we are already sending the rebels Weapons which is a huge game changer and thats good enough now let it play out.

No, it's not a game changer at all. At least not in the way you think. All this is going to do is prolong the conflict, not speed it up. Iran and Russia have deep pockets and plenty of blank checks. This isn't just confined to Syria, this is a continuation of thousands of years of history in the region + post-WWI mandates + the ongoing game of Risk that the superpowers have been playing since the Cold War. This shit didn't just end when the Wall fell, you know that, right?

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 12:15 AM Reply

At 6/14/13 12:09 AM, Warforger wrote: But that like never works. We tried that with Iran and Iraq and both turned out to be powerful dictatorships that extended their middle fingers towards America.......

well technically Iran was a revolution against the US backed Shah and we had no real control over that or even try to fix.

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 12:21 AM Reply

At 6/14/13 12:14 AM, Feoric wrote:
At 6/13/13 11:53 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: and thats the result of human nature get over it.
hahaha go to hell. You don't know what you're talking about and your views are reprehensible.

what that people die and cultural site get destroyed in conflicts? Woo!

No, it's not a game changer at all. At least not in the way you think. All this is going to do is prolong the conflict, not speed it up. Iran and Russia have deep pockets and plenty of blank checks. This isn't just confined to Syria, this is a continuation of thousands of years of history in the region + post-WWI mandates + the ongoing game of Risk that the superpowers have been playing since the Cold War. This shit didn't just end when the Wall fell, you know that, right?

of course after WWI The Ottoman Empire was Partitioned up by France and Britain and new nations. and of course Course Assad is being assisted by Russia and Hezbollah which is supported by Iran. If the US gets involved along with Israel its practically proxy war like Vietnam.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 12:31 AM Reply

At 6/14/13 12:21 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
hahaha go to hell. You don't know what you're talking about and your views are reprehensible.
what that people die and cultural site get destroyed in conflicts? Woo!

No, saying "get over it" when someone tells you that 93000 people were killed when you know full well that number is likely higher and will only skyrocket as the situation rapidly gets worse, let alone the refugee crisis that's happening in countries like Jordan. But fuck them, right? Right:

At 5/5/13 10:23 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: well here it is fuck Syria
of course after WWI The Ottoman Empire was Partitioned up by France and Britain and new nations. and of course Course Assad is being assisted by Russia and Hezbollah which is supported by Iran. If the US gets involved along with Israel its practically proxy war like Vietnam.

The difference between this and Vietnam is really obvious. Can you figure it out?

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 12:39 AM Reply

At 6/14/13 12:31 AM, Feoric wrote: No, saying "get over it" when someone tells you that 93000 people were killed when you know full well that number is likely higher and will only skyrocket as the situation rapidly gets worse, let alone the refugee crisis that's happening in countries like Jordan

Like I said thats life: its sad but thats how it is. but that doesn't warrant US involvement who is just getting out of iraq and possibly afgahnistan for 12 years and huge national debt because of it.

The difference between this and Vietnam is really obvious. Can you figure it out?

not really, big regional and global superpowers funding each side to fulfill there own interest doesn't sound like porxy or did I miss something? (serious)

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 12:52 AM Reply

At 6/14/13 12:39 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Like I said thats life: its sad but thats how it is. but that doesn't warrant US involvement who is just getting out of iraq and possibly afgahnistan for 12 years and huge national debt because of it.

Until you hear anything from the White House that says we're putting troops on the ground then I'll be the first one here to say you were right from the start. However, it's not even confirmed that we're (in an official capacity) planning on sending arms outright:

"[deputy national security advisor] Ben Rhodes said the president had made the decision to increase assistance, including "military support", to the opposition's Supreme Military Council (SMC)."

It's not clear what this means. We all know what McCaine wants, though.

not really, big regional and global superpowers funding each side to fulfill there own interest doesn't sound like porxy or did I miss something? (serious)

See above.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 01:06 AM Reply

At 6/13/13 11:39 PM, Feoric wrote:
The sectarian warfare is first.

naturally. once the sectarian issue is settled who are they going to turn on? who else? non muslims. The sectarian genocide of another reason why we SHOULD NOT arm the rebels. Arming the rebels to protect the 'civilians' is like sedating your daughter and leaving her at a frat party to protect her chastity. bad idea.


Here's a bunch of bigwig Sunni clerics declaring Jihad on Syria, citing that Hezbollah's involvement in Syria (Qusayr, Aleppo) has caused the situation to take a dramatic change. Things are deteriorating way faster than I had expected. It will be a miracle if the sectarian violence doesn't take Lebanon and Iraq down in a full blown regional war.

I welcome it. muslims killing muslims will put a damper on them wanting to kill other people. it'll also ultimately weaken the entire region. best thing to do is just sit back and watch the show. Maybe the Sunni and Shiite militants will destroy each other in the process. For every muslim killed by a muslim is a muslim wanting revenge for the muslim killed. Maybe the sectarian violence will turn into outright middle eastern muslim vs muslim warfare that will wipe out a sizable portion of the middle east's population, therefore weakening the region.

Religion of Peace indeed.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 01:15 AM Reply

At 6/13/13 11:53 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
At 6/13/13 11:20 PM, Fim wrote:
'Not our problem' and 'let them hash it out' has been the official strategy for 2 years, and what has that achieved? 100,000 Syrians dead, mostly civilians, and the destruction of 6000 year old world heritage sites that are irreplaceable and have now been lost to the world forever.
and thats the result of human nature get over it.

Every time we argue you astound me tony..

I do hope that you put on a big tough guy Internet persona and you aren't this much of a dick in real life.

and this all matters how to US citizens?

You only care about human life when it's American? What if this was your country and your family whose lives were at risk? I can't believe I'm schooling you on elementary morality here. We have human rights laws and the UN specifically for these types of threats and you seem like you couldn't give a shit about these people. I'm not just arguing with you to point score here, people are dying as we speak, mothers, children, communities. Think about that before you go spouting off another one of your narrow minded unsympathetic comments.

I love the oil copout statement. as previously mentioned were sending weapons thats good enough

Not a cop out at all, I just don't see how on the one hand the US justifies the war in Iraq and not an intervention in Syria besides that.

Also fuck you tony, very much


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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 01:24 AM Reply

At 6/14/13 01:15 AM, Fim wrote: I do hope that you put on a big tough guy Internet persona and you aren't this much of a dick in real life.

believe it or not I'm not. I made a new years resolution to be kinder and trying real hard, but I left the internet out because I see it as a gray zone.

You only care about human life when it's American? What if this was your country and your family whose lives were at risk? I can't believe I'm schooling you on elementary morality here.

whens nap time?

We have human rights laws and the UN specifically for these types of threats and you seem like you couldn't give a shit about these people.

which can be bent or worded to where we want. and the UN is a useless lobby power that has barely done anything besides bicker to see who gets the bigger cookie. I have yet to see any real influence by the UN seeing as the Security council nations do as they please and North Korea and Iran going as is. and the UN peace keeping force (blue helmets) are highly ineffective. Us involvement compared to the UN is much higher you know why? because the US gets shit done unlike the UN.

I'm not just arguing with you to point score here, people are dying as we speak, mothers, children, communities. Think about that before you go spouting off another one of your narrow minded unsympathetic comments.

and the same in Darfur and Burma what makes Syria so special hmm? scores of people die everyday black white asian poor, rich by disease, accidents murder. and this just happens to be a conflict in some third world country.

and you know what no matter how hard you try you can't stop it all.

Also fuck you tony, very much

you wish babe.

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 01:35 AM Reply

At 6/14/13 01:06 AM, Korriken wrote: naturally. once the sectarian issue is settled who are they going to turn on? who else? non muslims.

Who is "they"?

The sectarian issue will never be settled. Syria has been an administrative unit for centuries. This doesn't just stem from the Sykes-Picot agreement, ethic struggles has been brewing there for hundreds of years before WWI. Present day Syria is an area roughly covering the old Ottoman vilayets (Ottoman term for province, basically) of Aleppo and Damascus, plus a portion of the Arab Levant. The region has had intermixed ethnic groups going as far back as the Umayyad caliphate. Syria's vast ethnic diversity bears striking resemblance to the Balkans in the sense that centuries under numerous empires has led to a lot of pockets of different ethnic groups interspersed throughout the country. This is why what you're saying here is ignorant as hell: it's not going to end here. It's going to continue from here. The sectarian issue is likely never going to be settled, and we're going to witness ethnic cleansing campaigns like what happened Yugoslavia and Bosnia-Herzegovina. There's no organization here, there's dozens and dozens of groups with varying radicalism working here. These loosely connected networks are going to immediately fall apart after the civil war aspect of this is over with. Whether Assad falls or the rebels are defeated is moot at this point, that's only going to be the beginning. There's going to be a purge to wipe out dissenters and this will inevitably fall among ethnic/religious association. Wiping out non-Muslims is the sectarian issue.

The sectarian genocide of another reason why we SHOULD NOT arm the rebels. Arming the rebels to protect the 'civilians' is like sedating your daughter and leaving her at a frat party to protect her chastity. bad idea.

We don't give a shit about civilians. It's not going to be about them. It's going to be about Iran and Russia pumping billions of dollars worth of aid in a rapidly destabilizing region. This isn't hard to figure out.

I welcome it. muslims killing muslims will put a damper on them wanting to kill other people. it'll also ultimately weaken the entire region. best thing to do is just sit back and watch the show. Maybe the Sunni and Shiite militants will destroy each other in the process. For every muslim killed by a muslim is a muslim wanting revenge for the muslim killed. Maybe the sectarian violence will turn into outright middle eastern muslim vs muslim warfare that will wipe out a sizable portion of the middle east's population, therefore weakening the region.

Oh gee you're so cool with your blithe attitude and the hopes that millions of Muslims will die. Cool!

Religion of Peace indeed.

Wow, haven't heard that one before. Will you be here all night?

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 01:41 AM Reply

At 6/14/13 01:24 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: and the same in Darfur and Burma what makes Syria so special hmm? scores of people die everyday black white asian poor, rich by disease, accidents murder. and this just happens to be a conflict in some third world country.

and you know what no matter how hard you try you can't stop it all.

So then let's cut off all foreign aide to Israel. What's the point?

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Response to Syrian 'Red Line' Crossed Jun. 14th, 2013 @ 02:15 AM Reply

At 6/14/13 01:41 AM, Feoric wrote:
At 6/14/13 01:24 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: and the same in Darfur and Burma what makes Syria so special hmm? scores of people die everyday black white asian poor, rich by disease, accidents murder. and this just happens to be a conflict in some third world country.

and you know what no matter how hard you try you can't stop it all.
So then let's cut off all foreign aide to Israel. What's the point?

Israel is at least a second going first world, seeing as they are one of the most westernized countries and one of our key allies in the region