At 6/11/13 08:28 AM, SkyeWintrest wrote: By the way, congrats on 1000 forum posts.

That shuts people up. For 8 hours at least.

At 6/11/13 08:25 AM, PeterSatera wrote: *cough back on topic!
So does the website have the total votes so we can keep track too?

I can add total scores if you would like that to be present. I assume for now that you can deduce who has won what just by looking so far.

At 6/11/13 08:24 PM, samulis wrote: I assume for now that you can deduce who has won what just by looking so far.

Yeah, I think it's fine the way it is.

---

"Theme: Lost Underground Civilization - As a surface-dweller, you've dug deeply and found a giant network of cities. It appears to have been built by your civilization's ancestors. Are they still alive, or are they all gone, with nothing but the remains of their technology (or lack thereof)?"

There may be liveliness, there may be desolation, lots of technology, or none at all. I find this pretty open to lots of variation. Still not sure which road I'm going to take with this (or make my own), but this will be fun for sure.

Was suddenly inspired, so I'm taking a very strange path on the theme at hand...which kinda sucks because since we keep it all anonymous and undescriptive, we can't really backup our pieces with background info on the choices we made hahahaha hopefully someone gets it...

At 6/12/13 01:05 AM, ZipZipper wrote: Was suddenly inspired, so I'm taking a very strange path on the theme at hand...which kinda sucks because since we keep it all anonymous and undescriptive, we can't really backup our pieces with background info on the choices we made hahahaha hopefully someone gets it...

You can always type your description into some speech synth and make that be the first few minutes of your track. ;-)

Actually I had the same problem. I wish there was some way to justify our theme decisions.

At 6/12/13 01:50 AM, johnfn wrote:

At 6/12/13 01:05 AM, ZipZipper wrote: Was suddenly inspired, so I'm taking a very strange path on the theme at hand...which kinda sucks because since we keep it all anonymous and undescriptive, we can't really backup our pieces with background info on the choices we made hahahaha hopefully someone gets it...

You can always type your description into some speech synth and make that be the first few minutes of your track. ;-)

Actually I had the same problem. I wish there was some way to justify our theme decisions.

Reminds me of what I did in the first round. A lot of people thought the song didn't fit the theme for some reason, while to me it made perfect sense. I could give at least five reasons why it was monochrome when I gave my description of the song to Skye. In any case I thought the lyrics would provide the decisive answer. But as it turned out, people either didn't listen to them, or they thought they were hard to understand because of the vocoder.

At 6/12/13 07:00 AM, SourJovis wrote: they thought they were hard to understand because of the vocoder.

I know that if I were just listening to your track without seeing your description I'd have found it difficult to understand much of anything, the vocoding was pretty heavy.

Also, it IS a drawback that you can't say anything about why you did what you did. But then, neither do most people who are making soundtracks - you can't exactly explain your stylistic choices to everyone who listens during a movie or game!

At 6/12/13 08:07 AM, SkyeWintrest wrote:

At 6/12/13 07:00 AM, SourJovis wrote: they thought they were hard to understand because of the vocoder.

I know that if I were just listening to your track without seeing your description I'd have found it difficult to understand much of anything, the vocoding was pretty heavy.

Also, it IS a drawback that you can't say anything about why you did what you did. But then, neither do most people who are making soundtracks - you can't exactly explain your stylistic choices to everyone who listens during a movie or game!

I made a new version with easier to understand lyrics (self promotion alert).

You wouldn't want to sit next to me when you watch a film/play a game I did anything for, or I'll be talking all through it. But I do that with anything I know something about. That's a blue screen shot, that's a puppet, that's a stunt double, that's a rubber sword they corrected with CGI so it doesn't flop about, that's a matte painting in the background, that stone is made of styrophoam, that's sugar glass, that actor has this name, and played in that and that and that movie before and that one after, etc.

No, but it's true. When you make soundtrack for something you can't explain to the audience why you did what. That should ideally be instantly apparent. Though then again. When the composer has a nice story to tell for the interviews it works well as promotion.

But usually films and games are more restricted than this contest. Both the composer and the audience have images, a story and other sound they can use to see if a story fits. In this contest the themes are much more open to interpretation. E.g. for the monochromatic theme you can think of an old happy Disney film that is made in black and white because of the restrictions of that time. Or of a world with advanced technology in 2365 where all colour is absorbed by machines controlled by the government. Or about a present day person who happens to be colour blind and sings about his/her view of the world. All would give distinct songs, with different artistic choices.

Yet judging in this contest gravitates towards the more obvious and plain interpretation of the theme. I find myself guilty of this. So many songs to judge and not that much time. I'm much harsher with my critique that I would normally be, without even trying to get into the mindset of the composer, which feels mean.

For the composers it isn't always interesting either to make a straightforward song. You have to do something different to set yourself apart from the other contestants. Sometimes your imagination runs wild, and you get these vivid images of something more unique and specific that the general them. You try to convey what you feel at risk of being accused of "straying too far from the theme".

I won't claim I would have gotten more votes if people had a broader mind set. The winners well deserve what they got and the submissions were all very good. It's difficult to compete against that. Still nice to be part of it. Still it makes you think. Such a voting system is a little like making a Hollywood film. Where many experts work on one project, and everyone has to work so hard to meet the exact expectations of everyone else, that there's no room for an artists expression of his/her own feelings. Making you question if it can still be called art.

This might be a bit picky and annoying but it kind of bugs me a bit that most people interpreted Monochromatic as Colorless, thats not the case. Monochromatic colors are all the colors (tints, tones, and shades) of a single hue. so the broadens the topic even further than black and white...you could write about a would in shades of blue, or red, or green..whatever.
But since there are so many submissions and only one to pick we gotta go with the most obvious feeling and indeed eliminate those that didnt convey the theme at first sight...if we reheard all submission multiple times until we understood them all completly we would go crazy xD

At 6/12/13 09:39 AM, DivoFST wrote: But since there are so many submissions and only one to pick we gotta go with the most obvious feeling and indeed eliminate those that didnt convey the theme at first sight...

Yeah, but it's not nitpicky, you're right. Still, yeah, I wish we were able to give a little description, that would have helped tremendously with the lot of us :P It doesn't really compare to listening to it during a movie or whatever, though, since the movie itself would do the talking for us - not every submission has to conform to the images we were provided, and even just one picture to go along with each submission to show the path they took with the theme would be enough.

This is why there is a need to acknowledge that there is more than just one path to take when going for the theme, because all of them may well represent it, but just from a different perspective. Say someone submits something lively and bustling for this 3rd round, and another submits something where everything and everyone is long gone. Both would fit the theme just fine; they would sound highly different though.

blah blah blah good morning did i make any sense no ok

At 6/12/13 09:56 AM, alternativesolution wrote:

At 6/12/13 09:39 AM, DivoFST wrote: But since there are so many submissions and only one to pick we gotta go with the most obvious feeling and indeed eliminate those that didnt convey the theme at first sight...

Yeah, but it's not nitpicky, you're right. Still, yeah, I wish we were able to give a little description, that would have helped tremendously with the lot of us :P It doesn't really compare to listening to it during a movie or whatever, though, since the movie itself would do the talking for us - not every submission has to conform to the images we were provided, and even just one picture to go along with each submission to show the path they took with the theme would be enough.

This is why there is a need to acknowledge that there is more than just one path to take when going for the theme, because all of them may well represent it, but just from a different perspective. Say someone submits something lively and bustling for this 3rd round, and another submits something where everything and everyone is long gone. Both would fit the theme just fine; they would sound highly different though.

blah blah blah good morning did i make any sense no ok

Yes, lots of sense...there are indeed a lot of interpretations on each of the themes, in the first theme i went with vocals, i think that is one of the best ways to actually make people see your view about the topic, a piece about depression can be obvious or lot, however with vocals it can be in the topic but still give a lot of margin not to make them too obvious because people will interpret it more easily.
And the fact that so many submissions are being sent makes me follow my idea of the topic and see how other convey it a lot more easily than interpreting all of them...because..man...everyone saw the topic..so in some way it conveys the theme if looked under a magnifying glass xD

It's funny. I was actually thinking of this before (and forgot to mention it in a PM to someone else). The contest is slightly intended to challenge people in a more real-world situation, since from what I know, in real-life music work you have to make music according to what people want - or according to a specific sequence of events.

Real life jobs are restrictive, and sometimes certain music will get the theme across more than others. It seems the voting reflects that.

On the flip side, original and creative music CAN still do well (see ZipZipper's submission last round). It really depends on what you guys think is best. :)

There's only one solution. We should all make an animation for the audio.

At 6/12/13 10:31 AM, SourJovis wrote: There's only one solution. We should all make an animation for the audio.

I have no animating skill whatsoever, I'm going to have to forfeit.

At 6/12/13 09:39 AM, DivoFST wrote: This might be a bit picky and annoying but it kind of bugs me a bit that most people interpreted Monochromatic as Colorless, thats not the case. Monochromatic colors are all the colors (tints, tones, and shades) of a single hue. so the broadens the topic even further than black and white...you could write about a would in shades of blue, or red, or green..whatever.

I think it really depends how you see it.

A single hue is a single colour though in a spectrum. So although people suggest it's colourless, the fact is that it's actually just lacks colour. Which is interpreted as boldness and fullness. So to me, tracks that gave a feeling of solitary open and wilderness were the more suitable themes, because these are related to the isolation, and idea of a lack of colour, such as a single hue. Saying its black or white aren't specifically connected to shades of blue, red or green because this is in relation to the physical spectrum of light. Artistically Black and White are considered tones, not colour so because of that people have connected it to Monochromatic, and I find it acceptable to do so.

So as long as the concept of one colour, or lack of colour is there which could be interpreted as, lack of boldness, lacking warmth, lack of fullness or isolation, loneliness, light or in generalization missing something the songs given were of good representation of the theme. Anyway...

----

I think there's a lot more to go on this round, and in fact the freedom to do a lot is completely vast imo.

At this risk of showing what I'll be doing I want to help out, so for instance in this round I've isolated keywords and broke down to me what I read into it. This is what I read into it, and my interpretation. To quick remember the quote, here it is:

Lost Underground Civilization - As a surface-dweller, you've dug deeply and found a giant network of cities. It appears to have been built by your civilization's ancestors. Are they still alive, or are they all gone, with nothing but the remains of their technology (or lack thereof)?

I recognize the following concepts and this helps me create my track, hopefully it will help inspire you too:

Surface dweller
We're Disconnected, Foreign, conventional

You dug deeply
hunt, exploration, looking for answers, Determination, uncertainty, dirty, murky, dark,

found
achievement, victory, unearthed, discovery, unveiling, vision, revealing

giant network of cities
gigantism, grand, overwhelming, thought provoking, stunned

ancestors
life before human, human life, meaning of life, historic, organic, relation, connectivity, grand population

alive?
welcoming, harmless, loving, giving, adopting,
delicate, exceptional, limited, challenged, incapacitated, naive, religious

isolated, trapped, dangerous, hostile, violence, territorial, unwelcome
aggressive, threatened, vicious, anger, escape, conquer

nothing remains?
Dead, historic, ambient, isolation, thought provoking, heart warming, emotional, saddened, dread, evolution, couldnt escape, natural disaster, self created disaster, memory, wilderness, apocalyptic, destiny. ghostly, eerie, organic remains

technolody or lack of?
sophisticated, futuristic, technology, advanced, artificial, quality, surrealism, modernism, innovation, advanced, magnificence, electronic, electricity, power, science, machinery, computers, industrialism,

naturalistic, landscape, simple, essentials, heart and loving, devine, spiritual, righteous, holy, devotional, nonmaterialistic, pure, sacred, religious, godly, heavenly, earthly, organic.

So as you can see there's many things that you can pull from this, which is why I find it quite a hard one, because judging on something which is so wide can mean anything can go. Especially since it can be basically techy, or organic. That just opens a massive playing field.

At 6/12/13 11:23 AM, PeterSatera wrote: So as you can see there's many things that you can pull from this, which is why I find it quite a hard one, because judging on something which is so wide can mean anything can go. Especially since it can be basically techy, or organic. That just opens a massive playing field.

This.

At 6/12/13 11:37 AM, alternativesolution wrote:

At 6/12/13 11:23 AM, PeterSatera wrote: So as you can see there's many things that you can pull from this, which is why I find it quite a hard one, because judging on something which is so wide can mean anything can go. Especially since it can be basically techy, or organic. That just opens a massive playing field.

This.

Agreed, meaning a lot of misunderstood submissions are to be seen once again, i personally think that "You dug deeply" "ancestors" "technolody or lack of?" will come a lot, they certainly are some safe choices.
Also somehow i sense this is going to be a Reverby and atmospheric Round of songs xD

At 6/12/13 01:04 PM, DivoFST wrote: Agreed, meaning a lot of misunderstood submissions are to be seen once again, i personally think that "You dug deeply" "ancestors" "technolody or lack of?" will come a lot, they certainly are some safe choices.
Also somehow i sense this is going to be a Reverby and atmospheric Round of songs xD

Also agreed. Or, we could be walking in on a massive party going on, if everyone is still alive. Pfft, for all we know there could be a Las Vegas happening down there

I don't doubt the atmospheric part though

At 6/12/13 01:28 PM, alternativesolution wrote: Also agreed. Or, we could be walking in on a massive party going on, if everyone is still alive. Pfft, for all we know there could be a Las Vegas happening down there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OrXdBYojBQ

At 6/12/13 03:08 PM, PeterSatera wrote:

At 6/12/13 01:28 PM, alternativesolution wrote: Also agreed. Or, we could be walking in on a massive party going on, if everyone is still alive. Pfft, for all we know there could be a Las Vegas happening down there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OrXdBYojBQ

I have all of the Matrix soundtracks and motion picture scores on cd. I should listen to them again. Reminds me of your music btw PeterSatera. Is that where you get some of your inspiration from? I think if you'd make something like Fluke's song Zion for this round not many people will think it fits the theme. It will be a nice variation though. Unless everyone will go for an underground party now. I don't think I'll take that risk... Or maybe I will.

At 6/12/13 05:14 PM, SourJovis wrote: I have all of the Matrix soundtracks and motion picture scores on cd. I should listen to them again. Reminds me of your music btw PeterSatera. Is that where you get some of your inspiration from? I think if you'd make something like Fluke's song Zion for this round not many people will think it fits the theme. It will be a nice variation though. Unless everyone will go for an underground party now. I don't think I'll take that risk... Or maybe I will.

I do enjoy Don Davis's scores, and I probably have been inspired by it. But I dont take much from them due to his techniques are really hard to pull into a Vst. Maybe skye is willing to put a single sentence in for each track. That gives us at least a sentence to say what we were thinking when we did it.

What do you say Skye?

At 6/12/13 05:38 PM, PeterSatera wrote: Maybe skye is willing to put a single sentence in for each track. That gives us at least a sentence to say what we were thinking when we did it.

I think such a thing would still be unfair, because how we write/what we write can also be indicative of our personality. Also, this colors the listener's perspective, as only the music should be doing the talking, imo. I said I wish we could, but for it to be actually implemented, I was kidding :P

Also, Skye said that this is supposed to be a challenge for us. And so! We've been doing it without words - as long as all of us are aware of and should expect much variation in the submissions, in terms of the theme, this time around especially....we should be fine~!

Now that we're entering the final round, I don't expect to be hearing nearly as much (including from myself) of "such and such this thing and stuff doesn't really suit the theme and blah blah" and you know....at least when people are comparing musical styles. Emotions, background and setting can still be conveyed through numerous means!

At 6/12/13 05:38 PM, PeterSatera wrote: What do you say Skye?

I say sure, if most other people agree.

What do you say, people?

(Also, got your answer, altSol - mind if I call you that? alternativesolution is a long name ;_;)

Im still not sure myself, as ASolution says, it should be apparent in the music, but if people are finding it unfair im flexible.

At 6/12/13 06:03 PM, SkyeWintrest wrote: (Also, got your answer, altSol - mind if I call you that? alternativesolution is a long name ;_;)

altSol... that's a new one... Hm. Alt, Altie, AltS, Sol, altSol... I'm not really sure, whatever works xD

yes it is long, im sorry.. (=._.=)

yep, I mean I'd totally agree on having it, since I know it could have helped MANY of us (including myself, again ;_;) ...but I also can see why it was not implemented in the first place (even if not thought of before).

Because then we're also being judged on how well we can explain our submission (putting it all into one sentence can also be a challenge), which makes not only our song under judgment, but our writing skills as well. I suppose this can work in real life, too, so if anyone sees that challenge as being perfectly fair, then sure, whatever.

It's only my opinion that for a music contest -- which has already started, especially, so this changes the rules automatically -- being judged on more than just the music seems a little unfair.

Still, you're one of the hosts, and fortunately you're pretty open to input from us participants :3 So yes. That is my two cents on this topic. Still curious on what other people think though.

I don't know either. Perhaps a short description in under 300 characters would be a nice addition. I feel something for that.

About the animations I was kidding. I don't expect all of the musicians to be able to make an animation as well. It got me thinking though. Wouldn't it be nice to have a competition where instead of a theme, someone makes a musicless animation, and all contestants have to make a musical score to fit the animation. That way the animation will do the talking, and everyone will instantly see if the music fits. That will be a whole different competition altogether, but still an interesting one.

At 6/12/13 06:18 PM, SourJovis wrote: I don't know either. Perhaps a short description in under 300 characters would be a nice addition. I feel something for that.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a competition where instead of a theme, someone makes a musicless animation, and all contestants have to make a musical score to fit the animation.

Good idea. Perhaps I'll have a contest prior to the next NGMT for animators similar to what NATA did.

Also, so far that's two maybes and one yesno.

At 6/12/13 06:13 PM, alternativesolution wrote: altSol... that's a new one... Hm. Alt, Altie, AltS, Sol, altSol... I'm not really sure, whatever works xD

yes it is long, im sorry.. (=._.=)

BETTER IDEA. I shall now call you AlterSoul from now on.

It's only my opinion that for a music contest -- which has already started, especially, so this changes the rules automatically -- being judged on more than just the music seems a little unfair.

Still, you're one of the hosts, and fortunately you're pretty open to input from us participants :3 So yes. That is my two cents on this topic. Still curious on what other people think though.

You got the reason why I didn't have it in the first place (and yes I know other people got it too, but I'm replying to this one and don't feel like quoting everyone). I want the music to be judged on its own terms, not on the terms of an explanation. This is a music contest, not a writing contest.

Of course, if it's what people want, I WILL change it for the NGMT '14 (or '13 take 2 if I get enough support - then there could be another this winter! All the contests will be in the winter after this, by the way). Contests live or die based on the participants, and I consider it completely unfair if not downright rude to not listen to them or try to keep as many of them happy as possible. If people want it, they'll get it.

That said, if it's an integral part of the contests (such as the anonymity, voting, or the overall format), it will take a VAST majority to get me to change it. I want this to be different from the usual contests, and if it's a step toward them, I will resist unless it'd cause like, 30% of the participants to pack up and leave.

At 6/12/13 06:41 PM, SkyeWintrest wrote: BETTER IDEA. I shall now call you AlterSoul from now on.

Now that sounds like an alternative solution.

sorry sorry sorry, terrible pun, will never happen again. ;_;

At 6/12/13 06:44 PM, Step wrote:

At 6/12/13 06:41 PM, SkyeWintrest wrote: BETTER IDEA. I shall now call you AlterSoul from now on.

Now that sounds like an alternative solution.

sorry sorry sorry, terrible pun, will never happen again. ;_;

Lmao I love it

what is that? AlterSoul... the Alterer of Souls... haha
too creepy? no, ok

Also, @SkyeWintrest , yep! that all sounds good to me... now we just wait for moar people to respond to this idea!! And I really do like the sound of a 2nd NGMT '13 ^___^ I think this whole contest is a brilliant idea, anyhow ...and in no way is this statement partially influenced by how all of Scott's amazing artwork connected together... nope..

At 6/12/13 06:44 PM, Step wrote:

At 6/12/13 06:41 PM, SkyeWintrest wrote: BETTER IDEA. I shall now call you AlterSoul from now on.

Now that sounds like an alternative solution.

sorry sorry sorry, terrible pun, will never happen again. ;_;

Well, at the very least, it's a Step in the right direction.