Placing Reverb on Master?

[Loathar]

Should I ever do it?

I'm talking classical/rock, it seems to add a certain something.
I wouldn't go over 14% wet
Guitars sounds beautiful and everything blends in well, so I'm just wondering if anyone else does this?

Tips are appreciated

[frootza]

Well, it is your track, so you can do whatever you want to it.

There are often unconventional ways of giving a song a certain charm, one of which very well may be adding some verb to the master.

If you get the instruments to blend well over the reverb without creating a muddy sound, you should feel grateful! Don't forget to get a second opinion.

Listen to your track with the reverb and get a rough mix without the reverb, see which one you really prefer.

[Loathar]

At 6/10/13 09:12 AM, frootza wrote: Well, it is your track, so you can do whatever you want to it.

There are often unconventional ways of giving a song a certain charm, one of which very well may be adding some verb to the master.

If you get the instruments to blend well over the reverb without creating a muddy sound, you should feel grateful! Don't forget to get a second opinion.

Listen to your track with the reverb and get a rough mix without the reverb, see which one you really prefer.

Yes I know, use my ears but are there things that will affect the track that I can not hear, I don't have the best speakers/room treatment and I am not a good audio engineer.
There must be some rule to this, when I put reverb wetness at 100% the track sounds sexy(in a weird way) but I'm pretty sure it's wrong. When a track is louder than another it is considered better but only in the short run.

So I'm asking, even if I think the track sounds better with a bit of reverb on the master, is it doing more harm than good?
Is it killing/muddying frequencies that I can not hear instantly?

Also what about different reverbs on different send channels?
For example a plate and a hall

[Breed]

Reverb on a master buss is not uncommon. Its mainly used to make all your instruments sound more like they belong together. As you probably already guessed, it should be used pretty lightly. Its also not always needed, so judge for yourself if the instruments sound well incorporated with each other or not.

[SourJovis]

It's your song. Never let yourself be limited by what others think if you think it sounds right. Who knows it's something revolutionary.

However, can you even technically call it a master if you put effects on it? It certainly defeats the purpose of mastering. Mastering is the final step of song creation, where you make the song louder while preventing it from clipping. You can add some equalization to separate the instruments a little better. You can use various forms of compression for all kinds of purposes. You can use a spreader to make the song sound wider, or the bass frequencies more in the middle or whatever you want. But either way, in the end of the mastering process the song should sound absolutely perfect and ready to go. Why on earth would you put another effect like reverb on it after that? You'd have to start your mastering all over again.

Putting reverb or any effect on the master is very unconventional, and is generally not considered a good thing to do. I for one think it's bad for the reasons I've mentioned.

What I often do however is put some reverb or distortion or whatever is suitable on the entire mix, right before the master. This is more part of the mixing process, or perhaps you can call it the first step of the mastering process since it's on the entire track. But I certainly don't put any effects after the limiter. The limiter is the limit.

[SoulofT]

I once heard that adding a good master reverb is not realizing the reverb when listening to the song, but realizing its missing when its not in the song.

But, like everyone says, be careful to avoid a muddy mix, don't overdo it, and have faith lol :d

[Loathar]

At 6/10/13 10:02 AM, SourJovis wrote: It's your song. Never let yourself be limited by what others think if you think it sounds right. Who knows it's something revolutionary.

However, can you even technically call it a master if you put effects on it? It certainly defeats the purpose of mastering. Mastering is the final step of song creation, where you make the song louder while preventing it from clipping. You can add some equalization to separate the instruments a little better. You can use various forms of compression for all kinds of purposes. You can use a spreader to make the song sound wider, or the bass frequencies more in the middle or whatever you want. But either way, in the end of the mastering process the song should sound absolutely perfect and ready to go. Why on earth would you put another effect like reverb on it after that? You'd have to start your mastering all over again.

Putting reverb or any effect on the master is very unconventional, and is generally not considered a good thing to do. I for one think it's bad for the reasons I've mentioned.

What I often do however is put some reverb or distortion or whatever is suitable on the entire mix, right before the master. This is more part of the mixing process, or perhaps you can call it the first step of the mastering process since it's on the entire track. But I certainly don't put any effects after the limiter. The limiter is the limit.

Don't worry, not planning on putting reverb after my limiter. My question is pre-mastering(mixing) not post.
I wouldn't go crazy with a stereo spreader(or whatever you guys want to call it) it messes up lotsa shit in the audio.

I do put an SSL when I'm done with the mix, very subtle compression.
Seems like everyone goes with if it sounds good, keep it.
So I'm taking the reverb off the master channel, do not want to risk it.

Multiple reverb question is still left unanswered. What do you guys think of a Plate send and a Hall send in one song.

[Loathar]

At 6/10/13 10:06 AM, SoulofT wrote: I once heard that adding a good master reverb is not realizing the reverb when listening to the song, but realizing its missing when its not in the song.

But, like everyone says, be careful to avoid a muddy mix, don't overdo it, and have faith lol :d

Goes for everything right?
Compression

Man this music business is vague

[The-iMortal]

If it sounds good it sounds good. Perhaps try chucking an EQ after the reverb and roll off the lows and maybe some highs to avoid muddiness. Check it on headphones and hear how the clarity is compared to professional mixes (keeping in mind the original clarity of the mix, of course).

[SourJovis]

At 6/10/13 10:35 AM, Loathar wrote: Don't worry, not planning on putting reverb after my limiter. My question is pre-mastering(mixing) not post.

Okay, then it's all good. Like Breed said before "Reverb on a master buss is not uncommon. Its mainly used to make all your instruments sound more like they belong together." But with on the master buss I assume he means before the limiter.

I wouldn't go crazy with a stereo spreader(or whatever you guys want to call it) it messes up lotsa shit in the audio.

True. It's like putting distortion on the entire mix. It messes things up. It can create an interesting effect though. I you use it subtly. With a song with few instruments or on individual instruments you can be more bald. There are a lot of people that make the low bass frequencies completely mono and think that makes it sound better. It all depends on the songs and how you use it, but as always. If it sounds good, it sounds good.

Multiple reverb question is still left unanswered. What do you guys think of a Plate send and a Hall send in one song.

Like I said before (or I at least like I quoted Breed). The same reverb makes your instruments sound more the same. If you put Plate reverb on halve the tracks, and hall on the other halve, they will not sound as if they're in the same room. Usually you use the same type of reverb on all of the instruments, but you don't have to use the same amount. You can however use a combination of different types of reverb. E.g. for an orchestral track you can use various amounts of plate reverb. More for the instruments in the back, and less for the ones in the front. Then add a bit of Hall reverb on the entire mix. I'm not sure how much sense that would make though, but that way you'd have reverb from the plate the orchestra is playing on, which varies from section to section, and the reverb of the concert hall which is more or less the same for all the instruments. You can also purposely use different reverb if you want to set the instruments apart. Like a digital reverb on the electronic instruments, and a concert hall reverb on the orchestral instruments, so they don't blend.

[St0mpy]

I usually add about 4-10% and no more than that. Limiter usually brings it out.

[sorohanro]

I actually put it after the limiter because compressors and limiters might bring it too much up. I put really a small amount, about 3-5%.

[midimachine]

At 6/10/13 06:49 PM, sorohanro wrote: I actually put it after the limiter because compressors and limiters might bring it too much up. I put really a small amount, about 3-5%.

yeah this, usually just a tiny little room reverb too
just need to leave a little headroom for it haha

[Ecke]

Only if you do 100% chorus with severe offset and 8 step delay.

[Sequenced]

i have 10 soundgoodizers on my master channel

[PascalPalomino]

I'm experimenting on this to at the moment. The main purpose of the reverb is to create dimension. Like someone said before you want all the instrument to sound like they are in the same room so better use one reverb bus, set the mix to 100% and blend your instruments to this bus. The more the instrument is up front, like violins, the less reverb they have. The farther away they are like brass the more reverb they have.
I thaugh that convolution reverb, like concert halls, was the best for orchestral but I just read about pro using plate so I guess it's more about preference.
Another interesting thing I read is that if the composition is for video or film and has to be mix with voice, they don't like reverb as it might get in the way of the voice or sound effect and the music might be cut.

[midimachine]

At 6/12/13 08:58 PM, Ecke wrote: Only if you do 100% chorus with severe offset and 8 step delay.

At 6/12/13 09:00 PM, Sequenced wrote: i have 10 soundgoodizers on my master channel

rly gud jokememes guys XD

[xIIInon]

When I produce some orchestral piece I usually apply reverb to the main channel just a little. I'm not sure if I remember it right but I think Troels Brun Folmann does the same way in addition to reverberation on other channels which require it to sound natural.

[gridcrawler]

Don't be lazy. And don't regret when you get frustrated quickly.

[Loathar]

Guys when I say mixing two reverbs together I don't mean 2 Diferent Reverbs on 2 Different Instrument
I mean 2 Reverb Sends for the same Instrument

The 10 Soundgoodizer is actually a thing these days lol

[DarkantheHero]

At 6/10/13 08:01 AM, Loathar wrote: Should I ever do it?

I'm talking classical/rock, it seems to add a certain something.
I wouldn't go over 14% wet
Guitars sounds beautiful and everything blends in well, so I'm just wondering if anyone else does this?

Tips are appreciated

I would keep your master track simple. Maybe an EQ, limiter...
Putting reverb on an Aux Track and sending your tracks to it would probably be the better route. You can put fader automation on the aux track while on the master you'd have to go in to the reverb automation anyways, which is just adding a step.

And also, if you're going to have reverb on your master track, I would make sure it's first in the chain, otherwise anything you want over the mix will not include the reverb.

[Chemich]

Just make sure you automate the ON/OFF switch for when you want it on, and when you don't. (my only advice.)

Do what works though, there's no rules to being a producer.

Only rules I follow are my own, and even from time to time I tend to break them just to experiment and try something new.

[midimachine]

At 6/14/13 02:28 PM, DarkantheHero wrote: And also, if you're going to have reverb on your master track, I would make sure it's first in the chain, otherwise anything you want over the mix will not include the reverb.

what lol

[MetalRenard]

Lots of solid advice here.
It's true, a touch of reverb can really help polish a song off. A good example is that I was always told by friends and fellow music makers to not put reverb on kick drums. Guess what? A touch (maybe 3 to 5%, no more) actually really accentuates the kick drum's power if you choose the right Impulse to go with it!

There are no "rules", just "best practices". When you think something sounds better, experiment with it. You can't lose anything by trying out new ideas!