London Butchers Terrorists?

[Lumber-Jax12]

I'm sure many of you by now have heard what I'm talking about if not here's the story

Terrible act by a few sickos, but honestly it's slightly annoying having people call them 'home-grown' terrorists just because they happen to be Muslims who were shouting a nonsensical rant Allah wanting vengeance or some other bullshit.

These guys were just some vagrants with a clever, knife, and a faulty revolver hardly the stuff of Al Qaeda or any of it's affiliates. They're not so stupid as to attack in broad day-light on such a small scale as this, and they sure as hell wouldn't stick around the corpse and preach on the street.

I mean really it's just stupid, and it's really pushed by people on the right more so than the left. Shit like that just alienates the already cautious Muslim community and pisses them off, and then they when an actual attack goes down the morons throw their hands in the air and say "WHY'D THEY DO IT? THEY HATE OUR FREEDOM!".

Just treat this as it is, a bunch of cracked-out/retarded hoodlums with a thirst for blood and attention.

I'm also surprised they had time to just waltz around their like clowns for about half an hour, the cops are that slow to react to something like this? I'm not trying to offend British police officers or those in London, but why did no one respond as immediately to this as they should have?

[TheMason]

At 5/23/13 01:55 PM, Lumber-Jax12 wrote: ... hardly the stuff of Al Qaeda or any of it's affiliates...

Terrorists come in many different forms. Some are organizied (ie: a group like al-Qaida), others work in small, isolated groups, and 'lone wolves'.

And so while you are right this comes across as 'amatuerish'...that does not disqualify it as being a terrorist attack.

I mean really it's just stupid, and it's really pushed by people on the right more so than the left. Shit like that just alienates the already cautious Muslim community and pisses them off...

It's not really a 'right' or 'left' issue...terrorism exists outside of politics. For example we had terrorism under Clinton, and it was labeled terrorism. Those who think this is a right/left issue are the ignorant ones who are either blinded by ideology and/or part of the tin-foil hat brigade looking for conspiracies.

Since this involved targeting a political-military target combined with a religious-political rant...that is all the hallmarks of political terrorism.

Just treat this as it is, ...

Two, probably lone wolves, terrorists.

I'm also surprised they had time to just waltz around their like clowns for about half an hour, the cops are that slow to react to something like this? I'm not trying to offend British police officers or those in London, but why did no one respond as immediately to this as they should have?

Yeah...they probably did respond as fast as they could. This happened in a major, metropolitan city that has influence worldwide. There is a response time factor, which is why relying on police as a means of stopping a crime in progress is foolish.

:)

[Tony-DarkGrave]

Religion of Peace (TM)

[Earfetish]

At 5/23/13 05:24 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Religion of Peace (TM)

Christianity - forgiveness? Not to forgiving of that abortion doctor, were ya? "Judge not lest ye be judged," "turn the other cheek," just like how you protest against funerals with your 'God Hates Fags' signs?

do you see what I did there

The way the UK's right wing has run with this solitary murder is shocking and disgusting

[MrPercie]

At 5/23/13 05:24 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Religion of Peace (TM)

I know, religions shit isnt it, still fucking pathetic in this modern day and age, few western countries have legalized gay marriage because of religion.

truly pathetic.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 5/24/13 12:29 PM, Earfetish wrote:

At 5/23/13 05:24 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Religion of Peace (TM)

Christianity - forgiveness? Not to forgiving of that abortion doctor, were ya? "Judge not lest ye be judged," "turn the other cheek," just like how you protest against funerals with your 'God Hates Fags' signs?

maybe but you don't see christians or Jews going around doing this shit much less hanging homosexuals or killing woman because they show to much ankle the religion is stuck in the middle ages.

I know this doesn't pertain to most muslims I admit, but over in the middle east its bullshit.

[Ceratisa]

Acid attacks prove your moral superiority.

[TheMason]

At 5/24/13 12:29 PM, Earfetish wrote:

Christianity - forgiveness? Not to forgiving of that abortion doctor, were ya? "Judge not lest ye be judged," "turn the other cheek," just like how you protest against funerals with your 'God Hates Fags' signs?

Here's the thing though:
1) Gosnell was prosecuted through the criminal justice system. Now I'm not a huge wear-it-on-my-sleeve pro-lifer, but in this case what he did was truly evil and unethical and as such he needs to punished. Not with a public stoning...but through the court system. Whereas under Sharia law and in many Middle Eastern countries, the law (especially as it applies to female honor and/or offenses against God) can be taken into the individual's hands.

After all, he did violate civil law as well and man can sit in judgement of his own laws.

2) The activities of the Westboro Baptist Church are not condoned by the mainstream of Christianity...in fact they are condemned by most Christians.

do you see what I did there

The way the UK's right wing has run with this solitary murder is shocking and disgusting

How have they been 'running with it'? I haven't seen much to object to.

[Fim]

This shouldn't be branded as terrorism, this was an isolated incident of a psychopath who just happened to be Muslim. I can imagine the groan of shame and exasperation coming from the vast majority of decent, good willed, law abiding moderate Muslims in Britain when they heard about this news, since its just fuelling those who already had racist or anti multicultural beliefs. It's worth noting that in the aftermath every single Muslim group in the UK came out and condoned this.

[TheMason]

ter·ror·ism

noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

SOURCE: Dictionary.com

At 5/25/13 06:25 AM, Fim wrote: This shouldn't be branded as terrorism, this was an isolated incident of a psychopath who just happened to be Muslim.

1) Someone does NOT have to be part of a larger group in order to be classified as a terrorist. Examples:
* Timothy McVeigh & Terry Nichols
* The Unabomber
* Nidal Hassan
* Tsarnaev brothers

2) An attack does NOT have to be part of a larger campaign as being classified as an act of terrorism. Examples:
* Oklahoma City Bombing
* Ft. Hood Shooting
* Boston Bombing

3) Considering that the two terrorists spent 30 minutes telling those around them that this was retribution for Afghanistan, and the killing of Muslims there...the fact that they are Muslims is extremely relevant. It describes the political and religious reasons for the attack. That they specifically told an onlooker: "We want to start a war in London tonight." indicates that this was intended to achieve political and possibly religious aims.

You can seperate the mainstream Muslim religion from Islamic extremism that promotes terrorism...but in this case you cannot seperate the Islamic beliefs (distorted they may be) of the attackers from the attack. To even try involves controting and abandoning logic and reason.

I can imagine the groan of shame and exasperation coming from the vast majority of decent, good willed, law abiding moderate Muslims in Britain when they heard about this news,

Irrelevent palaver. I consider myself a patriot, and while I was not in the military in 1995 I come from a military family...so when I heard that McVeigh had carried out a terrorist attack in the name of patriotism and he was a veteran I felt shame. I felt shame that someone who looked like me and shares some of the same values with could do such a horrific thing.

So I get it, and I'm empathetic to the vast majority of Muslims. They should not be held accountable or harassed for the misdeeds of radicals. Just like I am not accountable for the misdeeds of Christians who kill abortion doctors.

But that DOES NOT change the fact that these two psycho/sociopaths committed an act of terror! To assert this is foolish.

since its just fuelling those who already had racist or anti multicultural beliefs.

More irrelevant chatter.

The actions of radicals from the opposite side of the opposite side of the political spectrum DOES NOT change the fact that this was terrorism! Your statement is more about emotion rather than reason or logic.

It's worth noting that in the aftermath every single Muslim group in the UK came out and condoned this.

Again...irrelevant to the assertion you make at the beginning of this paragraph. Many Muslim countries and religious leader condemned the 9/11 attack...that did not change the nature of the attack. Just like Christians, military members, and patriots who condemned McVeigh did not change the nature of his attack.

====

You fail to establish how this was not an act of terrorism. All you provide are appeals to emotion that require abandoning logic and reason.

[Dan3891]

The reason why this event is terrorism is that it was motivated by religion, and intended to terrorize the populace. The secondary motive was that these two wanted to incite further violence. Thought these two where British by birth they were know to attend the mosque of a known radical Islamist in London. Who will simultaneously preach antisemitism and hatred for the west, then when something like this happens say oh i never tell my congregation to attack people in London just abroad. The biggest problem with the Muslim community is that it has show over and over that they support and tolerate clerics that spew hatrade and incite violence, there is really no "moment" of "moderates" who are willing to police their own, the ones who do are almost always former Muslims, and that is why these "isolated" attacks will continue. You don't have to carry a card associating you with a major terror organization to maim and murder people for Allah, and it doesn't make you any less a terrorist who is driven by the same motivation.

[Halberd]

this whole thread is semantics bullshit

terrorist does not have to equal al qaeda or taliban

these guys can't be dismissed as just crazies

they are crazies with political beliefs and demands that are committing terror acts to scare people into doing what they want

these people get caught every day and sometimes succeed in their acts and they certainly do exist

[aviewaskewed]

At 5/24/13 01:06 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: maybe but you don't see christians or Jews going around doing this shit much less hanging homosexuals or killing woman because they show to much ankle the religion is stuck in the middle ages.

The last Pope, a religious and political leader, whose authority supposedly stretches back to Jesus's most favored apostle, was highly critical of the use of condoms. Condoms don't just prevent pregnancy but also disease. He was in charge of the office that handled the kid fucking investigations and allowed them to be covered up.

Point? All religions have shit in their closets. Hitler was a Christian too. Just because some asshole twisted up his religion and focuses solely on the violent bits (if I had a mind to, I could become a militant off of crap in the Bible. Running around killing gays, wiccens, and a few other groups the Bible explicitly says it's ok for me to kill so long as I do it the prescribed way). There's thousands, no, millions of Muslim's that aren't fuckbags. Is it true they seem to be producing more fuck bags then other religions? Sure. But it's ridiculous to act like the religion itself is the problem, and not the individual. End of the day we all choose how to act.

[jring1911]

Heh..Don't feel bad,it's worse across the pond.

[LandonMP]

Islam is the scourge of Humanity