Holder: Killed 4 Us Citizens

[Tony-DarkGrave]

Holder: Drone strikes have killed four Americans since 2009
Washington (CNN) -- Counterterrorism drone strikes have killed four Americans overseas since 2009, the U.S. government acknowledged for the first time on Wednesday, one day before President Barack Obama delivers a major speech on related policy.
In a letter to Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, Attorney General Eric Holder said the United States specifically targeted and killed one American citizen, al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, in 2011 in Yemen, alleging he was plotting attacks against the United States.

Source

all in the Name of freedom for the Obama Administration! no judge no jury just Drones!

[Poniiboi]

At 5/23/13 12:07 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Holder: Drone strikes have killed four Americans since 2009
Washington (CNN) -- Counterterrorism drone strikes have killed four Americans overseas since 2009, the U.S. government acknowledged for the first time on Wednesday, one day before President Barack Obama delivers a major speech on related policy.
In a letter to Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, Attorney General Eric Holder said the United States specifically targeted and killed one American citizen, al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, in 2011 in Yemen, alleging he was plotting attacks against the United States.

Source

all in the Name of freedom for the Obama Administration! no judge no jury just Drones!

Yet half of the idiots on Newgrounds will completely be ok with this because they bought the terrorism story hook line and sinker.

However, Tony, let's put the blame where it should be, not on Obama specifically. He is at fault, but he is only one of a line of Presidents that are being controlled from somewhere (I believe big finance, big oil and big manufacturing around the world) to continue war in order to make money. So after Obama leaves and Hillary wins (or maybe that Mexican governor everyone's talking about), none of this is going to change.

Also, Romney would have done the exact same thing. So it's not Obama, it's big business along with evil elements in government. Raytheon. Halliburton. GE.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

Jesus grow up the both of you its not evil corporations and its especially not jews.

[MrPercie]

If anything it would more likely be saudi arabian oil tycoons, not really jews.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 5/24/13 01:03 PM, MrPercie wrote: If anything it would more likely be saudi arabian oil tycoons, not really jews.

its a out of control Administration overreaching its boundaries.

[morefngdbs]

At 5/24/13 01:04 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

its a out of control Administration overreaching its boundaries.

;;;;
this IMO is the real problem, governing without regard for the Constitution.
Declaring war on an enemy that doesn't exist.

I AM NOT SAYING TERRORIST DON'T EXIST

But you can't declare war on an ideology , the same as you can't declare war on drugs or poverty ....its an asinine attempt used by the political elite to deceive the masses.

We have laws & rules of engagement, Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel we simply need to co ordinate better, work together internationally to deal with these problems. I believe a great many of these problems have been caused by the US policy over the years & there is direct evidence of many of these so called terrorists getting their training, weapons etc from US backed/run organizations like the CIA.

IS there anyone one here who really believes that sending the US military on to the streets of America to capture, kill & destroy any & all the pot heads of the USA will actually make anyone safer ?

Has spending billions of your tax dollars stopped the flow of cocaine, heroin & other truly dangerous ,actual drugs into your country from abroad ???
So if it isn't working , why not try something else ?
Putting a massive military presence into places you are not wanted, hasn't meant you've won !Vietnam , not a win ...Iraq, it wasn't a win, passible stalemate but not a win , any of you really believe you are winning in Afghanistan ? They've never let up ...constant drone attacks in Pakistan has changed nothing except gotten even more people pissed at America ! So get out of these countries, stop invading places you have no right to be in, in the first place.

You go into other countries & bomb destroy & kill people, how can you be surprised when the survivors family members decide that the only way the can get back at you is to set off a car bomb at a check point ? Or to set out bombs at a marathon race in one of your cities, or crash a jet into your buildings etc ?

You started it ...& there are many people who have been pushed as far as many of them can be pushed. They are feeling powerless to protect & unable to raise/care for their loved ones so strapping on a bomb vest & strolling over to a group of Americans is seen as the best way to fight back !

The problem now is , even the mightiest military in the world can't stop a couple or even 1 single determined individual(s) who just don't fucking care what happens next to them .

SO what is a good way to combat this ...how about removing Americans from harms way ?
I realize you can't just pull every serviceman & woman & American back to your country tomorrow. But you can start pulling back. You can leave places you are not wanted & where your people are under constant unrelenting immediate threat.
instead of blowing shit up, perhaps its time to step back & let the dust settle. Or at least the dust you raise to settle, let them kill each other ! After all, all you have to do is look at what happens when you do leave (for example Iraq) now that the USA has pulled out, they (the Iraqi islamic militants) are no longer killing Americans every day , but they are killing each other ... with bombings, assassinations etc. Syria is another good example, while there is no way on earth you can convince most people that the USA isn't backing the militants by allowing the transfer of funds & weapons to go on. At least American's aren't dying every single day there.

The USA's current policy of big bully on the block is simply not working, if you keep it up not only will Americans not be safe anywhere they go in the world...which is pretty much the case now. You are going to become even less safe in your own country !

[Bri]

Considering how many allies of other nations American friendly fire has killed, I would say you are pretty damned lucky.

[Love]

At 5/23/13 12:07 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Drone strikes have killed four Americans since 2009
four Americans
four
4

This is an outrage!! Surely not this many afghani lives have been lost since 2009!?

[Fim]

I really don't get what the big issue is with drones, how is it completely unremarkable to fire a rocket out of a jet and kill a bunch of people but suddenly if you removed the pilot its worse? Surely if you can keep the military servicemen safer and not risk their lives on a mission that's a good thing.

I'm not the biggest fan of drones in the world, and I'm playing devils advocate here to some extent, but I just think its odd how people have some big deal about drones when it's not any worse than all the other arsenal at the military's disposal.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/1/13 03:23 AM, Fim wrote: I really don't get what the big issue is with drones, how is it completely unremarkable to fire a rocket out of a jet and kill a bunch of people but suddenly if you removed the pilot its worse? Surely if you can keep the military servicemen safer and not risk their lives on a mission that's a good thing.

its hardly that its just just he's targeting American CITIZENS without trial.

[Camarohusky]

At 6/1/13 07:40 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: its hardly that its just just he's targeting American CITIZENS without trial.

Bush had the military attack Afghan units with Americans in them. Why aren't you bitching about that?

In WWII we attacked units that had American citizens in them. Why aren't you bitching about that?

You just don't like this because you don't like Obama. Enemy soldiers killed in war can be killed without a trial regardless of their citizenship.

[Mexal]

Blame the jews!!!!

... On a serious note, the government are really damn sloppy with those drones.

[Ceratisa]

I'm confused why the past wrongs are making present ones okay...

[Camarohusky]

At 6/1/13 11:18 PM, Ceratisa wrote: I'm confused why the past wrongs are making present ones okay...

They're not wrongs.

[Ceratisa]

At 6/1/13 11:30 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 6/1/13 11:18 PM, Ceratisa wrote: I'm confused why the past wrongs are making present ones okay...

They're not wrongs.

Killing people completely innocent isn't wrong? Cause we all know one of them was at least one.

[Fim]

At 6/1/13 11:53 PM, Ceratisa wrote:

At 6/1/13 11:30 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 6/1/13 11:18 PM, Ceratisa wrote: I'm confused why the past wrongs are making present ones okay...

They're not wrongs.

Killing people completely innocent isn't wrong? Cause we all know one of them was at least one.

Where's your evidence that these people are innocent?

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/2/13 11:12 AM, Fim wrote:

At 6/1/13 11:53 PM, Ceratisa wrote:

At 6/1/13 11:30 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 6/1/13 11:18 PM, Ceratisa wrote: I'm confused why the past wrongs are making present ones okay...

They're not wrongs.

Killing people completely innocent isn't wrong? Cause we all know one of them was at least one.

Where's your evidence that these people are innocent?

Everyone is guilty of something but when 16 year old american gets blown by a drone then the government tried covering it up you know something wrong.

[Love]

At 6/2/13 02:23 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Everyone is guilty of something but when 16 year old american gets blown by a drone then the government tried covering it up you know something wrong.

Did the military really have to start using robots for you to figure out war is bad?

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/2/13 03:18 PM, Love wrote:

At 6/2/13 02:23 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Everyone is guilty of something but when 16 year old american gets blown by a drone then the government tried covering it up you know something wrong.

Did the military really have to start using robots for you to figure out war is bad?

no but american civilians are and trying to cover it up.

[Love]

At 6/2/13 05:00 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 6/2/13 03:18 PM, Love wrote:

At 6/2/13 02:23 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Everyone is guilty of something but when 16 year old american gets blown by a drone then the government tried covering it up you know something wrong.

Did the military really have to start using robots for you to figure out war is bad?

no but american civilians are and trying to cover it up.

Name one military in the history of Earth who has never once covered something up from their citizens.

[aviewaskewed]

At 5/24/13 01:04 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: its a out of control Administration overreaching its boundaries.

While this indeed sucks, this is different then when soldiers flying a plane drop a bomb how? It's called "collateral damage" it is extremely difficult to deploy weaponry (especially bombs) without running a risk of killing unintended targets. I would have thought someone in the military would know that.

It's this culture of unending war that has been the norm in Washington since 9/11, and the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about way back that is doing the damage. Until the citizenry wises up, rises up, and votes out establishment politicians who think the way to solve every problem is to blow it up, it's pretty pointless to try and play the game of who sucks worst.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

1st SFOD-DAt 6/2/13 09:03 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 5/24/13 01:04 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: its a out of control Administration overreaching its boundaries.

While this indeed sucks, this is different then when soldiers flying a plane drop a bomb how? It's called "collateral damage" it is extremely difficult to deploy weaponry (especially bombs) without running a risk of killing unintended targets. I would have thought someone in the military would know that.

The thing is, is that Obama's administration targeted killed him the 16 year old kid and his dad (some al Qaeda videomaker who really didn't do anything) you could easily have sent a team in it would have been far more value able and constitutional seeing as both were quite honestly executed by the government in a civilian GREEN zone. And they tried playing off the kid kid had joined his father's footsteps as a insurgent when it was a lie the Current administration got caught with.

I know collateral but I believe drones are a last resort. They could have easily gone in with either Seals or
1st SFOD-D to capture him not blow up whole fucking neighborhood and kill one american citizen without trial and his son who was innocent in this.

[Camarohusky]

At 6/2/13 10:18 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: They could have easily gone in with either Seals or

So, in other words, you don't care if innocent Americans die? It only matters when they're not soldiers and are actively supporting a current combat enemy.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/2/13 10:52 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 6/2/13 10:18 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: They could have easily gone in with either Seals or

So, in other words, you don't care if innocent Americans die? It only matters when they're not soldiers and are actively supporting a current combat enemy.

yeah but they WERE TARGETED WITHOUT TRIAL. and the guy just made anti american youtube videos I really doubt it would be that hard.

[Fim]

At 6/3/13 03:11 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 6/2/13 10:52 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 6/2/13 10:18 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: They could have easily gone in with either Seals or

So, in other words, you don't care if innocent Americans die? It only matters when they're not soldiers and are actively supporting a current combat enemy.

yeah but they WERE TARGETED WITHOUT TRIAL. and the guy just made anti american youtube videos I really doubt it would be that hard.

I love your selective outrage at certain issues tony, because we all know that collateral damage is a certainty with the current firearms legislation in the US, but when 4 people are killed with drones under a president who you don't like suddenly its a travesty. Let's be honest, 4 deaths in 5 years is hardly a epidemic, where was the republican outrage when 8 million Iraqi civilians were killed under Bush?

In my opinion, drones get well too much paranoid scrutiny than they deserve. I don't think they are any better or worse than a tank or a aircraft carrying warheads, as I've previously said, why is killing someone so much worse when you remove the chance that the pilot could also get killed?

[Memorize]

At 6/3/13 08:17 AM, Fim wrote:

Let's be honest, 4 deaths in 5 years is hardly a epidemic, where was the republican outrage when 8 million Iraqi civilians were killed under Bush?

Yes, let's be honest and pretend to completely miss the point that it's not that they were actively involved in a fight and died during crossfire, but that it's actually about how they weren't and were targeted for assassination without charge or trial sometimes in a green zone.

It'd be like if Germany and France were at war and German soldiers shoved a person out of a house and shot him/her in the streets.

You would probly be there going, "Well, that's not any different than getting killed during a fire fight!"

In my opinion, drones get well too much paranoid scrutiny than they deserve.

Gee, I don't know.

Could it be because the issue has nothing to do with the aircraft being manned or not?

Though I do find a certain irony in a country that uses unmanned aircraft which knowingly drop missiles on populated areas which kill civilians from a safe distance complaining about a suicide bomber running into said populated areas and blowing themselves up.

[Camarohusky]

At 6/3/13 09:22 AM, Memorize wrote: Yes, let's be honest and pretend to completely miss the point that it's not that they were actively involved in a fight and died during crossfire,

You are 100% right that this isn't like two infantry units fighting, but you are 100% wrong to imply that it is not extremely closely related to other, very accepted, forms of warfare.

The drone strikes are no different than strategic bombing campaigns. Are you really going to come out and claim that all those killed in shock and awe deserved trial?

[Ceratisa]

The drone strikes are no different than strategic bombing campaigns. Are you really going to come out and claim that all those killed in shock and awe deserved trial?

How many American citizens were killed in the strategic bombing campaigns purposefully?

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/3/13 08:17 AM, Fim wrote:

because we all know that collateral damage is a certainty with the current firearms legislation in the US,

nice strawman.

L but when 4 people are killed with drones under a president who you don't like suddenly its a travesty. Let's be honest, 4 deaths in 5 years is hardly a epidemic, where was the republican outrage when 8 million Iraqi civilians were killed under Bush?

Missed the point those civilians were either in crossfire or in the wrong place and wrong time accounting for collateral, these WERE TARGETED Citizens of the US without trial in Civilian zones with a drone strike.

[aviewaskewed]

At 6/2/13 10:18 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: The thing is, is that Obama's administration targeted killed him the 16 year old kid and his dad (some al Qaeda videomaker who really didn't do anything)

Al-Alwaki was, and has, been cited as someone helping budding terrorists (like the ones in Boston) self-radicalize. While he was not planting bombs, he was definitely a major terror figure and someone who represented a threat. I'm sorry, but this is completely a partisan issue because whenever someone in the Bush administration was breaking the law in the arena of terrorism you were absolutely fine going along with the "it's ok as long as we get the fucker". Because Obama did it, it's bad. It's partisan hackery at it's worst, shame on you and anyone else who was fine with killing terrorists except when it's the president you don't like doing it. I am however concerned that the white house is saying that the son and the other one were not a target, but were killed in separate strikes. I find it hard to believe they were killed in a separate strike but not targeted.

you could easily have sent a team in it would have been far more value able and constitutional seeing as both were quite honestly executed by the government in a civilian GREEN zone.

Weren't you someone that was cool with the warrantless wire tapping and other un-constitutional actions of the last admin? Yeah, I think you were.

And they tried playing off the kid kid had joined his father's footsteps as a insurgent when it was a lie the Current administration got caught with.

Where? I didn't see that claim made in the article you cited, nor have I seen evidence of it afterwards. Got a seperate article to back that?

I know collateral but I believe drones are a last resort. They could have easily gone in with either Seals or
1st SFOD-D to capture him not blow up whole fucking neighborhood and kill one american citizen without trial and his son who was innocent in this.

I think drones should be a last resort to a degree. But I certainly can understand not wanting to put civilians in harms way. Also Al-Awaki was pretty clearly guilty of treason, which makes his citizenship moot. Again, you're arguing what all the "dirty liberals" you're always against have argued for years. It's really sick how this isn't about the dead bodies, but about who gave the order.