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N G M T - '13 Edition

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Sequenced
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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 12:59 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 04:00 AM, Step wrote: Is mayonnaise an instrument?

Best post 2013.

Also, I'm recommending Mich's new uploading website http://instaud.io/

It's simple as fuck. Upload, then download. Better than most uploading sites IMO.


lel

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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 01:15 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 12:51 PM, PeterSatera wrote: so to complicate things further...

If i have, lets just say 4 instruments one being a trombone section and they are all playing at once, then, i only play 3 of them, including the trombone, but then split the trombone to play two melodic melodies. This would be 5 instruments as the overall composition is dependent on 5 instruments, not 4 even though 4 are only playing at once.

Sorry about this, im being a bit of an ass, but im making sure that im being as thorough as possible. (should have seen me on the web chat to a hosting guy yesterday about prices)

Oh man you're really trying to pin this down 100%, aren't you.

In that case, it would be 5 instruments - there are three instruments normally, and then the trombone section with two different trombones playing two different melodies. If the trombone section were playing chords, that would be fine - but a melody, no.

I'm trying to allow people to have real instruments play chords without forcing it to only be strings, guitars, pianos, etc.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 01:21 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 12:54 PM, Rhoder wrote: Am I able to use a synthesizer with different sounds (as one instrument) for my entree?

three of my mates and I are going to record some stuff for this one.

Ooh, that sounds cool. Unfortunately, no - unless you're modulating one sound on the instrument, it will count as multiple instruments, ESPECIALLY if all the different sounds are playing at once.

At 5/17/13 12:59 PM, Sequenced wrote: Also, I'm recommending Mich's new uploading website http://instaud.io/

It's simple as fuck. Upload, then download. Better than most uploading sites IMO.

Main reason we're using soundcloud: Streaming. Unless that's possible on instaud.io, then we're using soundcloud. If instaud.io can stream, then that's awesome - the other reason is that we can delete the tracks after voting is done so that if people want to hear them, they can check the artist's page. Alternatively we can post links on the soundcloud tracks... the only issue is that people might think the contest account is the original creator of the music.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 01:42 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 01:21 PM, SkyeWintrest wrote:
At 5/17/13 12:54 PM, Rhoder wrote: Am I able to use a synthesizer with different sounds (as one instrument) for my entree?

three of my mates and I are going to record some stuff for this one.
Ooh, that sounds cool. Unfortunately, no - unless you're modulating one sound on the instrument, it will count as multiple instruments, ESPECIALLY if all the different sounds are playing at once.

Well, for example, what I'm probably going to do is use one sound on the keyboard but use a few different modes on that sound. (like guitar effects for the guitar). I hope that is okay.

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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 01:47 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 01:42 PM, Rhoder wrote: Well, for example, what I'm probably going to do is use one sound on the keyboard but use a few different modes on that sound. (like guitar effects for the guitar). I hope that is okay.

If you're saying that you'll only use one sound but add effects on top of it which change - such as having a phaser, then a delay, possibly both at once - that's fine.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 02:36 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 01:15 PM, SkyeWintrest wrote: Oh man you're really trying to pin this down 100%, aren't you.

In that case, it would be 5 instruments - there are three instruments normally, and then the trombone section with two different trombones playing two different melodies. If the trombone section were playing chords, that would be fine - but a melody, no.

I'm trying to allow people to have real instruments play chords without forcing it to only be strings, guitars, pianos, etc.

Alright! Well that's me then. I have my questions answered. Thanks for the prompt reply. Im out.

Joke joke. :D


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 02:43 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 02:36 PM, PeterSatera wrote: Alright! Well that's me then. I have my questions answered. Thanks for the prompt reply. Im out.

Joke joke. :D

Sweetcakes. :D I take it you'll be joining then?


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 02:59 PM Reply

Rule of thumb (not official OR final, just to help answer your questions!) for instruments: Imagine a single person on that instrument OR a synthesizer (average ability on keyboard), the latter only for sound effects/electronic sounds.

If it cannot be played due to a technical limitation of the instrument, it counts as more than one person.
For percussion, if it can't be played by one person in a humane manner, then it's more than one.

So... a pad could be any multitude, but your cello part may only be one note unless you have them playing double stops (and by that I mean reasonable double-stops). Your brass, and woodwinds otherwise can only play one note at a time.

The focus of this phase is to see how you deal OUTSIDE your comfort zone if you're used to large ensembles. Maybe you should try writing for a string quartet or jazz quartet or whatever, it might open new horizons!


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 03:09 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 02:59 PM, samulis wrote: Your brass, and woodwinds otherwise can only play one note at a time.

(unless it's being used as a "pad")


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 03:59 PM Reply

The rules seem too full of holes. Who will be in charge of determining if something is 'melody' or 'chord' progression, as chords can be created in such a way to create melodic harmonies.

It's also confusing how if you play 'x' on the piano, it'd be one instrument, but if you play 'x' on a synth or using a soundfont player (both being capable to be played by one person, using the same keyboard/controller) it becomes more than one.

I think it should either be set for one way or the other, either have 4 instruments, 4 'patches', or 4 notes being played at the same time.

It's a very interesting concept for a competition, but the limitations aren't very clear, and seem to be really subjective, based on whoever is listening to it. I'd like to try this out, but I'd need a little more information / feedback on this.

I guess the real complication is based on the question, "what constitutes as an instrument". As I said before, if a piano or synth playing pads counts as one, then shouldn't a keyboard playing strings, brass, or any other soundfont also count as one?

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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 04:19 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 03:59 PM, Ryskie wrote: The rules seem too full of holes. Who will be in charge of determining if something is 'melody' or 'chord' progression, as chords can be created in such a way to create melodic harmonies.

It's also confusing how if you play 'x' on the piano, it'd be one instrument, but if you play 'x' on a synth or using a soundfont player (both being capable to be played by one person, using the same keyboard/controller) it becomes more than one.

I think it should either be set for one way or the other, either have 4 instruments, 4 'patches', or 4 notes being played at the same time.

It's a very interesting concept for a competition, but the limitations aren't very clear, and seem to be really subjective, based on whoever is listening to it. I'd like to try this out, but I'd need a little more information / feedback on this.

I guess the real complication is based on the question, "what constitutes as an instrument". As I said before, if a piano or synth playing pads counts as one, then shouldn't a keyboard playing strings, brass, or any other soundfont also count as one?

Oh dear. This is making it far more complicated than intended.

I'll try to address everything you said in order.

Chords can be created in such a way to create melodic harmonies, yes - if you are a skilled pianist, then that's awesome.

When it comes to real instruments, you're limited to what each instrument can do. I am slightly opening up that limit when something such as an instrument section is introduced, because otherwise it is VERY difficult for 'real' instruments to have the drawn-out chords a synthesized pad can.

The most general rule of thumb would be "if it's playing chords, it can't simultaneously be playing a melody" - particularly for synths.

.

Also, I'd just like to say. The rule shouldn't be difficult to follow unless you're trying to exploit a technicality and use more instruments than you should be able to. Remember, the idea for this is "simple". The theme was even decided with simplicity in mind.

Does that answer your question?


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 04:49 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 02:43 PM, SkyeWintrest wrote: Sweetcakes. :D I take it you'll be joining then?

Hello yeah if I get the time i would love to join. I actually like the restriction, it woudl help a lot as I was struggling with juggling multiple instruments and just making my stuff too muddy. This way I wont have to deal with that. So this really appeals.

Seems like people are struggling with being able to figure out the pad thing, i can why. But it makes sense, chord pads good, split the single pad, synth whatever instrument into two seperate melodies and you're cheating.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 04:57 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 04:49 PM, PeterSatera wrote:
At 5/17/13 02:43 PM, SkyeWintrest wrote: Sweetcakes. :D I take it you'll be joining then?
Hello yeah if I get the time i would love to join. I actually like the restriction, it woudl help a lot as I was struggling with juggling multiple instruments and just making my stuff too muddy. This way I wont have to deal with that. So this really appeals.

Seems like people are struggling with being able to figure out the pad thing, i can why. But it makes sense, chord pads good, split the single pad, synth whatever instrument into two seperate melodies and you're cheating.

Unless you have a spare instrument slot (just going to put it that way for simplicity), yep - that's cheating alright.

I'm in the same boat as you with the pad thing - I understand, and it seems simple to me, but I can also understand that not everyone thinks the same way and can have issues figuring it out. Otherwise I'd probably have gotten pretty annoyed at this point. But then, if I got annoyed, it would make people have less fun, and I don't want that! It should be a challenge, but one that's taken up happily. :) If people really don't get it, they can still send something to us and double-check.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 05:12 PM Reply

This sounds fun. :) Cool idea for a contest.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 06:12 PM Reply

I know what four instruments to use!

One of those nifty organs with multiple claviers and foot pedals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijQWm4H-zBU

Also this thing, whatever it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXMuWi0dUBc

And of course my personal favourite; an orchestrion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYAfX6pZP04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y62nTNLK3xM

And then I'll have one instrument left to choose from... Does a cd player count as one instrument? Or a computer? They say that a good orchestra plays as one, so if I use a good orchestra it counts as one person playing one instrument right?

Naturally I'll have all of the four people operating the instruments sing as well.

It will be grand!


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 07:17 PM Reply

At 5/17/13 06:12 PM, SourJovis wrote: I know what four instruments to use!
It will be grand!

No.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 10:34 PM Reply

To succinctly and efficiently summarize and clarify the "four instrument" rule:

You can only have 4 channels in your DAW. A layer channel (one that sends the same input signal to multiple other channels) only counts as one channel (such as in the case of pads or sections, which must be playing in unison). Your drums/fx only count as one channel provided they are A. a playable within reason (this means no more than a 10-piece drums set comprised of toms, kicks, snares and cymbals) drum set (if using live-sampled drum sets this rule applies), or B. between 0 and 7ish in quantity short one-hit samples (FX, "exotic drums" such ethnic percussion, or other short or short non-melodic samples will count as or be factored into these "sample drum" channels).

Samples will apply to this rule as well - a single vocal track would be counted as one channel, a chopped up sample (i.e you chopped up said vocal track) would be restricted as if it were in part B of percussion. A single wave form repeated and used as harmony would count as a channel. Any complex sample's (i.e. you play and record Beethoven's 9th and load it into a channel) constituents will be held to these rules (i.e. all pieces of the sample would be judged as if it were not a sample, but a project of it's own). Newgrounds's rules apply to this contest, and will be interpreted and enforced by the moderators and this contest's host.

There, that should answer any question you guys can possibly cook up about this shit.

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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 17th, 2013 @ 11:27 PM Reply

This is kind of funny but when we started to write something, it just turned into a jam. Probably one of the best jams we've done in a while, because we just got into doing improve since december.

I'll probably just uplaod that (only 8 mins but it is quite interesting to listen all the way through and see how everything just comes together).

so what do we use? soundcloud?

I'll probably have to sign up for it.

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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 12:40 AM Reply

At 5/17/13 11:27 PM, Rhoder wrote: so what do we use? soundcloud?

I'll probably have to sign up for it.

No, you could use any data sharing site you want, as long as only the the contest organizers can see it. Later all songs will be uploaded one site (possibly soundcloud) by the organizers, but with neutral titles, so no one will know which song is made by who. Every participant will get 3 days to vote on one track they like. That will determine who wins. At least that's how I understood it.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 01:42 AM Reply

I'm not gonna point out more holes in the 4 instrument definition you guys got going. I only suggest that in the future you be a bit more stern. Solo instruments (percussion included) makes things a lot simpler both for judges and competitors. There's so much you can do with sound, 4 individual monophonic instruments is plenty.

That said,

If I find any free composition time I'll definitely join in on some or all of these

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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 01:59 AM Reply

At 5/17/13 04:00 AM, Step wrote: Is mayonnaise an instrument?

Exactly how long have you waited to use this glorious response?

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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 04:08 AM Reply

I don't know if I missed this somewhere in your first 2 posts but...can you use samples in your composition (e.g. drum loops), or do they count as an instrument?

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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 04:33 AM Reply

At 5/18/13 01:59 AM, bassfiddlejones wrote: Exactly how long have you waited to use this glorious response?

I kid you not, the instant he told me about this contest idea via Skype ages ago.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 08:51 AM Reply

At 5/17/13 10:34 PM, EbonHawk7X wrote: To succinctly and efficiently summarize and clarify the "four instrument" rule:

There, that should answer any question you guys can possibly cook up about this shit.

That would indeed summarize it well. Congratulations, I may have to hire you to be the thread writer in the future. ;)

No, you could use any data sharing site you want, as long as only the the contest organizers can see it. Later all songs will be uploaded one site (possibly soundcloud) by the organizers, but with neutral titles, so no one will know which song is made by who. Every participant will get 3 days to vote on one track they like. That will determine who wins. At least that's how I understood it.

You've pretty much got it, though I just want to clarify - as long as we can receive the sound file to upload it on soundcloud and nobody else is checking it out easily, we're good. I posted a link to the account being used.

At 5/18/13 01:42 AM, Breed wrote: I'm not gonna point out more holes in the 4 instrument definition you guys got going. I only suggest that in the future you be a bit more stern. Solo instruments (percussion included) makes things a lot simpler both for judges and competitors. There's so much you can do with sound, 4 individual monophonic instruments is plenty.

Thank you for not deliberately trying to poke holes. The reason that I'm not sticking to 4 individual monophonic instruments is layering and FX - it's possible to make individual instruments sound like many more (even if the instruments are monophonic), or make many instruments sound like one. I'm trying to make it as simple for everyone as possible, and as long as you're not deliberately trying to push the limits of the rules, you're good. Also as I've said - the challenge for this round is SIMPLE, and the theme was picked to reflect that - I hope that people will vote while keeping the theme and challenge in mind.

(also keep in mind this is the first contest I've organized. I'm human and make mistakes - lack of experience would increase that. I will most definitely consider what you've said for future iterations of the simplicity challenge)

At 5/18/13 04:08 AM, Yoshiii343 wrote: I don't know if I missed this somewhere in your first 2 posts but...can you use samples in your composition (e.g. drum loops), or do they count as an instrument?

Well, considering that EbonHawk7X summarized it very well, I won't ruin it - I'll just suggest you check out the second paragraph he posted.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 12:09 PM Reply

phase 1 done.

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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 12:25 PM Reply

This '4 instrument restriction' feels like a godsend, I absolutely love the monochromatic theme.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 12:35 PM Reply

So do we have to enter all 3 rounds? Could we say, enter rounds 1 and 3 but not enter round 2? I would like to enter some stuff, but I see the short time frame round being a real hassle for me since I work 70+ hours a week.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 12:44 PM Reply

At 5/18/13 12:35 PM, SmithBA wrote: So do we have to enter all 3 rounds? Could we say, enter rounds 1 and 3 but not enter round 2? I would like to enter some stuff, but I see the short time frame round being a real hassle for me since I work 70+ hours a week.

Why yes! All rounds are optional, so you can enter round 1, skip round 2, and enter round 3. :)

Of course, it'll reduce your chances of winning the overall contest, but if you need a break, you're allowed to not enter.


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 18th, 2013 @ 01:23 PM Reply

Two submissions have been received!

To those who have sent your tracks in, remember - if you come up with something better before the 30th, you can send it in to replace your old one!


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Response to N G M T - '13 Edition May. 19th, 2013 @ 02:19 AM Reply

My submission is in cant wait for the results. Hopefully many people submit.


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