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Terrible clients

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Troisnyx
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Response to Terrible clients May. 17th, 2013 @ 05:53 AM Reply

At 5/16/13 11:04 PM, samulis wrote: Any form of "Pop" and "good chord progression" do not belong together in any sentence ever!

Heheheh, to me, they certainly do. Having grown up hearing Mylene Farmer, Zazie and quite a few other French pop artists, having grown up hearing Ayumi Hamasaki... I grew up learning far more chord progressions than I learned normally in class.


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JacobCadmus
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Response to Terrible clients May. 19th, 2013 @ 01:45 PM Reply

I've had some pretty hefty experiences working on film music, which come down to the consensus that I'm not a fan of changing cuts and temp music. one director I've worked with had a "Terrence Malick complex," in which he would constantly send me new cuts while I had nearly finished scoring.

another director I've worked with (who was one of my best friends at the time) had me scoring music to a dramatic 9-minute short film that he made; he gave me only two days to work on it. mind you that this was the very first time I had scored drama, and this film in particular was dependent entirely on the music as the storytelling frontrunner. needless to say that this was the hardest I had ever worked on ANY score, and I did it for FREE. well, once I finished, the guy sent me a list of things to tweak, and I complied to all of his demands... just so that he would tell me on the night of release that he ended up using the temp music for the final cut. such a wasted effort. I felt so discouraged at my abilities as a composer, that I had quit music for three months.

HyperTrough
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Response to Terrible clients May. 20th, 2013 @ 01:39 PM Reply

Not commissions, but collabs.

I am always the one that dies first. Then nothing gets done. It's infected me working by myself too. I can't sit on a project and finish it. I always want to be making something other than what I'm doing....


lol fuk u

Troisnyx
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Response to Terrible clients May. 20th, 2013 @ 04:29 PM Reply

At 5/20/13 01:39 PM, HyperTrough wrote: Not commissions, but collabs.

I am always the one that dies first. Then nothing gets done. It's infected me working by myself too. I can't sit on a project and finish it. I always want to be making something other than what I'm doing....

Even for Game Jams? o.O


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alternativesolution
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Response to Terrible clients May. 20th, 2013 @ 07:50 PM Reply

At 5/20/13 01:39 PM, HyperTrough wrote: Not commissions, but collabs.

I am always the one that dies first. Then nothing gets done. It's infected me working by myself too. I can't sit on a project and finish it. I always want to be making something other than what I'm doing....

I do this all the time, but only to myself. I don't think I'd ever slack on a project when someone else is relying on me, and has already done their part.


------->>> Post a random word

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Psilenth
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Response to Terrible clients May. 31st, 2013 @ 02:01 AM Reply

I feel you.... every one loves to take advantage of Musicians

Yoshiii343
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Response to Terrible clients May. 31st, 2013 @ 02:34 AM Reply

At 5/20/13 01:39 PM, HyperTrough wrote: Not commissions, but collabs.

I am always the one that dies first. Then nothing gets done. It's infected me working by myself too. I can't sit on a project and finish it. I always want to be making something other than what I'm doing....

...Me too, man. Me too.

I mean, I have like, 2 collabs (one with The-iMortal, and the other with a dude named Fictitious from Dubstep Forums or something) and both of them got scrapped...

HyperTrough
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Response to Terrible clients May. 31st, 2013 @ 01:18 PM Reply

At 5/31/13 02:34 AM, Yoshiii343 wrote: ...Me too, man. Me too.

I mean, I have like, 2 collabs (one with The-iMortal, and the other with a dude named Fictitious from Dubstep Forums or something) and both of them got scrapped...

Oh the shame!

Wanna collab? huehue


lol fuk u

DrPepperChills
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Response to Terrible clients May. 31st, 2013 @ 08:39 PM Reply

That's probably the reason why I don't want to work as a freelance producer, because clients would most likely take your work and claim it magically.

I hate how some promotion channels would emphasize on one of the videos to subscribe to their channel, instead of checking out the artist's social sites.

RealFaction
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 8th, 2013 @ 04:43 PM Reply

-bangs my head against my desk-

Recently got a client whom expects to clash like 4 different genres together. "Oh its insanely all over the place in the beginning, just like my personality, and then it goes into electronic shit, then EPIC ORCHESTRAL METAL (what's up with this cliche?) then something else"

ugh....i told them to please narrow it down. As much as i love making music for people, they really expect me to be God or something, and they have no taste in musical structure. :/

DanMasterFlash
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 8th, 2013 @ 08:20 PM Reply

I have an unrelated question to the topic right now.

How are you guys finding clients? I've been searching for over a few months now and simply can't find one person who would pay for music. (I don't think my music is bad at least) I can't find the problem.

Any advice?


moozik is fuhn ye.

ulfusNG
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 8th, 2013 @ 09:01 PM Reply

At 6/8/13 08:20 PM, DanMasterFlash wrote: I have an unrelated question to the topic right now.

How are you guys finding clients? I've been searching for over a few months now and simply can't find one person who would pay for music. (I don't think my music is bad at least) I can't find the problem.

Any advice?

Cough Fiverr, cough, I offer $5 for 15 seconds then $25 for 1 minute, $45 for 2 minutes and $65 for 3 minutes etc


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DanMasterFlash
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 8th, 2013 @ 09:21 PM Reply

At 6/8/13 09:01 PM, ulfusNG wrote:
At 6/8/13 08:20 PM, DanMasterFlash wrote: I have an unrelated question to the topic right now.

How are you guys finding clients? I've been searching for over a few months now and simply can't find one person who would pay for music. (I don't think my music is bad at least) I can't find the problem.

Any advice?
Cough Fiverr, cough, I offer $5 for 15 seconds then $25 for 1 minute, $45 for 2 minutes and $65 for 3 minutes etc

Do you actually get people buying your service? How often? I've heard of this site but never thought it could be a considerable place for income.


moozik is fuhn ye.

PeterSatera
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 9th, 2013 @ 05:10 AM Reply

I don't really charge at all for my music. I only have a few people that ask for custom stuff.

> But I did have one guy who wanted me to score to his movie. It was 25minutes long, and a sfx only track. I did the first few minutes, sent it to him, and he loved it. So i continued, in about 7 minutes in and quite a bit of work, timing it perfectly to the visuals. I thought, I better update him. Sent him the track, never got a thing back at all. Nothing not a word. So I thought, fuck it. If he cant be bothered to say, "Thanks, keep going." Then I'm not going to continue.

> Ive had a few occasions where people are like I'm making a film for youtube, I need you to make something like such and such a song for a car film and i'd give you some cash. I said Ive never really done anything like that before, but was willing to give it a shot. Sent it to to him. After the first minute of creating it and he was like yeah sounds great. So since the track in the original kept repeating and altering from time to time from it's melody I practically copied the concept. I finished over 3minutes sent it to him. And he was like "Im sorry, i dont think its same enough as the original I sent you." I said how I wasn't going to copy it for reasons of copyright but can try and go down another route and try to get a more specific sound similar to it. He didnt like that, obviously and just never replied back.

> Another time I had someone making a game, he says he was needing loads of tracks for his spaceship fighter game. I must have made about 8 tracks took me a good while. From time to time i would send to him and he would reply. Then one day nothing, no reply. His project had obviously fallen apart and couldnt have the balls to tell me.

> The same thing happened with another guy, but with a medieval animation which had dragons. 2 full tracks, no animation. Just dropped out.

I decided for a while, 'unless I know you and know how dedicated you are I wont do any project for any visual-audio syncing without the visuals done already.' I know animation takes a long time. Ive been animating one project for over ten years with the last part awaiting completion. But when I get a voice actor messaging me, asking whats happening, I'll reply straight away, telling them that it's taking time because of the techniques, rendering and just general time to make it. That way they know what is going on. But I do think many of you have had worse things happen that this. The fact that some of you guys do it for a living can be stressful if people are difficult, because I know as for a long time I was freelancing Architectural Viz and Animation and some clients, even though with huge names can be a disaster.


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ulfusNG
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 9th, 2013 @ 06:24 AM Reply

At 6/8/13 09:21 PM, DanMasterFlash wrote:
At 6/8/13 09:01 PM, ulfusNG wrote:
At 6/8/13 08:20 PM, DanMasterFlash wrote: I have an unrelated question to the topic right now.

How are you guys finding clients? I've been searching for over a few months now and simply can't find one person who would pay for music. (I don't think my music is bad at least) I can't find the problem.

Any advice?
Cough Fiverr, cough, I offer $5 for 15 seconds then $25 for 1 minute, $45 for 2 minutes and $65 for 3 minutes etc
Do you actually get people buying your service? How often? I've heard of this site but never thought it could be a considerable place for income.

They sure do, http://fiverr.com/euphorial0/write-you-a-ridiculous-parody-s ong-with-lyrics-about-absolutely-anything-in-any-genre have made close to $2k so far


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xIIInon
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 02:22 PM Reply

At 5/13/13 10:38 AM, Step wrote: Clients who run away with your music and don't credit you, clients who take ages to respond, clients who keep changing their mind, clients who never finish what they were working on, clients who pay you in the form of candy floss... I'm sure we've all had our fair share of clients, commissioners and developers who are an absolute pain to work with.

What kinds of things do you hate to have to put up with when making music for other people? Also, best not to mention any names, but do you have any predicaments and stories you want to share as well?

DISCUSS.

Oh, well. I've a few painful memories. I used to compose music for one company developing their first multiplatform MMORPG. It was unforgettable, I must say. The customer tried to convince me that the sample of music they sent me had something to do with Slavic traditional music while it was 100% Eastern. Some mad uploader entitled it World Music - Slavic. And everyone in the comments section was like - yeah, I can feel that, that's the music of our ancestors, while I was facepalming to the sounds of duduk, oud, and native Indian percussion set. Ok, I made it the way the wanted after (how many?) 7 rewrites?.. And the first version was rewritten almost from scratch? Way to go. I also remember the same female customer from the publishing company asking me to remove the rasp from one of my audios. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what kind of rasp was meant. Nothing was clipping, all the levels were fine. And in the end it appeared to be the trombone section. I was constantly told that my music was either too calm and sleep provoking or too fast and lively. I was asked to fix a few moments because there were two sections of instruments playing in second (I mean the interval) for just a crotchet. And polyphony was often called 'mess' instead of 'polyphony'...

gridcrawler
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 03:12 PM Reply

At 6/13/13 02:22 PM, xIIInon wrote: Some mad uploader entitled it World Music - Slavic.

At least they didn't thought it was made by a Chechen...

samulis
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 05:29 PM Reply

At 6/8/13 08:20 PM, DanMasterFlash wrote: I have an unrelated question to the topic right now.

How are you guys finding clients? I've been searching for over a few months now and simply can't find one person who would pay for music. (I don't think my music is bad at least) I can't find the problem.

Any advice?

It's not that your music is bad or anything, it's that most people on youtube and working in flash and all that don't have a lot of money. If you make payment a big point in your first contact or suggest a price point immediately, they'll think you're a money-sucking vampire and ignore you. Sometimes it's best to bring it up after getting to know the developer/creator a bit and making sure its a job you could pull off. In most cases, it's more prudent to ask them what they would be willing to pay for your work or explain that you would be willing to accept royalties or lump sum and give an estimate of each and ask them if either option would be acceptable to them. If you put the art and interest in the game/film/project before the money, they will trust you more and all. There are projects where I have ended up contributing art, sounds, menu UIs, and even concept art and more when I was only hired as a composer and the developer has reflected that willingness and dedication to the project in my royalties and pay.

ON that topic, you might also find a terrible client who might offer pay but be the most horrible person to work with you have ever found... impossible to understand what they are getting at, demanding things to be redone over and over again, not treating you or your work well, asking for a massive amount of music in a short time, asking for remixes of existing copyrighted material, or offering extremely low up front pay. If you face something like this, sometimes its better that you turn it down if you feel mixed feelings. Worst thing is being stuck in a job you don't want with no door out (hence why contracts can be helpful- such as using terms that address the maximum number of rewrites or what would happen if the developer vanished for several months so the music could go back to your ownership and be used again).

Also, check out the collabinator. Get out there in the world and if you see a developer or youtuber you think you would enjoy working with, send them an e-mail/message and see what happens! Worst thing that could happen is they say "sorry, I'm not interested" and you try the next... just remember to be unobtrusive, polite, and personable in your letter, writing it specifically for the person you are writing to.


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DanMasterFlash
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 13th, 2013 @ 08:03 PM Reply

Thank you man. I deeply appreciate you taking the time to type that out and help a fellow musician. I'll take your advice to heart. I've actually just discovered the collabinator too. Thing is a genius idea. Thank you again man. People like you make the internet awesome.


moozik is fuhn ye.

gridcrawler
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 15th, 2013 @ 01:13 PM Reply

Screw the Chechen joke...

I have clients who refuse to let me release scores for my orchestra works. The strange thing is we never sign a contract that agree on this. Of course, I'm dirt poor and couldn't take any lawsuit from copyright trolls at all.

NikeTheSword
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 17th, 2013 @ 01:30 AM Reply

At 6/15/13 01:13 PM, gridcrawler wrote:
Screw the Chechen joke...
I have clients who refuse to let me release scores for my orchestra works. The strange thing is we never sign a contract that agree on this. Of course, I'm dirt poor and couldn't take any lawsuit from copyright trolls at all.

Always make a contract that also indicates your rights to track/s outside the project. (i.e. "Copyright of TheAwesomeSong remains with TheAwesomeArtist during and after the publishing of Project X and TheAwesomeArtist reserves his right to DoWhatEverHeWants [insert list of stuff about sharing and reselling the rights etc. as you see fit] with the track.")

I find it horrible and amusing at the same time, that industries which are essentially about enjoyment (music, games, movies) is so full of abuse, lies and taking advantage. Stay smart ppl! Always gain somethign from the contracts you make, be it wealth or exposure!

I quess opposites attract...

: What? No I won't level up, I like my watergun.

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 20th, 2013 @ 08:36 AM Reply

Hm, i've only had positive experiences.

Then again i have a very specific way of working wich is pretty friendly to clients, i dont do what they want, i ask for a thematic sheet and then send the client my creations asking if its good enough, if its not i tweak the tracks if i personally found them fitting and the client has been positive regardless of it not being good enough, if they are very negative or tell me its not what they look for i make a different track entirely.

I only dropped a project once but that was because of my health, in my lows i cant take putting alot of effort into something and then having to make something entirely different, many people think making music is like taking a crap but the fact is it takes tremendous mental energy to create a piece of music, oh and gives you both square eyes and kills your melatonine because you're zombieing in on the monitor for hours without pause.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. pm me for (free) hire, depending on your project i will make you a ost.

Calamaistr
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 20th, 2013 @ 08:41 AM Reply

At 6/20/13 08:36 AM, Calamaistr wrote:

i dont do what they want

With this i mean i dont just take a project as 'please make something epic and cool'

Vague requests like that arent going to have me make something for anyone lol.

Someone wants me to work for them they better do it my way cause i need concepts to create something, also screenshots are always a plus. Its important to have atmosphere to put a soundtrack on imo.


Original, classical and retro videogame music composer. pm me for (free) hire, depending on your project i will make you a ost.

HalcyonicFalconX
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Response to Terrible clients Jun. 22nd, 2013 @ 09:45 PM Reply

"Ten dollars sounds like too much for this track..."
(minute long fully orchestrated track)

"I'm young can I get a discount?"
(fan who kept pushing that he somehow had a god given right to be annoying because he was a 14 year old fan)

Them: "I'd like you to write an original song for us!"
Me: "Alright, what are you looking for?"
Them: "We need a more modern and poppier version of the YMCA song!"
(I had previously told them that I don't do covers.)

"You really ARE a professional! I always thought you were an amateur!"
(client who thought my prices were too steep)