Irs Targeted Conservative Groups

[Mfan]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/irs-apologizes-targeting-conse rvative-groups-144349480.html

this is a major conflict of interest , this is the same institution responsible for enforcing Obama care

wonder when it will actually be Illegal to not be a liberal

[Feoric]

At 5/11/13 01:12 PM, Mfan wrote:

wonder when it will actually be Illegal to not be a liberal

What do you think the FEMA camps are for?

[Feoric]

In all seriousness, I can't think of any reason why the IRS, the Internal Revenue Service (the body of government which collects taxes) would unfairly single out groups that correspond to the Tea Party, which gets its name from a famous historical tax protest. Can anyone help me figure this mystery out?

[Iron-Hampster]

to be fair, a lot of people are in violation of the tax code with out even knowing it.

[Mfan]

relevant article just published

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-irs-knew-tea-party-target ed-2011-190852283.html

[Tony-DarkGrave]

Of course they would.

[Camarohusky]

So the IRS took an extra look at a group who is openly hostile to the idea of taxation. What's the news here? You going to complain a violation of rights when the police are paying extra attention to a group that openly claims to support crime? Give me a break.

[Sense-Offender]

At 5/11/13 01:12 PM, Mfan wrote:

wonder when it will actually be Illegal to not be a liberal

Illegal to not be a liberal
ILLEGAL TO NOT BE A LIBERAL

.

[Memorize]

At 5/11/13 08:46 PM, Camarohusky wrote: So the IRS took an extra look at a group who is openly hostile to the idea of taxation. What's the news here? You going to complain a violation of rights when the police are paying extra attention to a group that openly claims to support crime? Give me a break.

Why not do the same of liberal groups?

After all, liberals are more likely to claim it's "ok" to cheat on your taxes than Conservatives.You're still a moron

[SuckMyBallsack666]

My guess is that IRS targets a lot of different groups. The Tea Party Groups, just happen to be the first ones in a long time to organize and fight back against it. Good for them.

[Angry-Hatter]

At 5/11/13 10:52 PM, Memorize wrote: Why not do the same of liberal groups?

After all, liberals are more likely to claim it's "ok" to cheat on your taxes than Conservatives.You're still a moron

Stay away from blogs. They rarely give you an accurate representation of the numbers.

So here's the actual results of the survey that the guy is referencing.

Yes, 86% of the people who identify as conservative said that not reporting all your income on your taxes was "morally wrong", while 68 % of self-described liberals say the same.

However, when it comes to whether cheating on your taxes was "morally acceptable", only 4% of conservatives and 6% of liberals said it was morally acceptable.

That's a difference of only 2%, which is small enough that it could possibly be within the poll's margin of error. The difference comes from the fact that the people who describe themselves as liberals were more likely to say that the question of reporting your income accurately was not a moral issue to begin with (23% of liberals said it wasn't a moral issue, 8% of conservatives agreed). They're not necessarily saying that it's a good thing to cheat on your taxes, just that it doesn't enter into the realm of moral conundrums.

I can't comment on the other "57% of libs say cheating on taxes are ok" figure, as I can't find any source on the topic other than right wing blogs and forums (such as the one you linked to), and all of them point to an Examiner article by Peter Schweizer that doesn't exist anymore.

[LemonCrush]

At 5/11/13 08:46 PM, Camarohusky wrote: So the IRS took an extra look at a group who is openly hostile to the idea of taxation. What's the news here? You going to complain a violation of rights when the police are paying extra attention to a group that openly claims to support crime? Give me a break.

The news is that a group is being targeted by the government for their political beliefs. Pretty sure having X political beliefs is not a crime.

Stealing from someone from behind the barrel of a gun, as the govt does, is illegal. very much so.

Tax protesters are not criminals. The thugs with the guns...those are the criminals.

The govt should be grateful that all these people do is complain about their taxes. The govt deserves much worse.

[Ceratisa]

I don't get you guys sometimes, if the IRS itself can apologize for inappropriate conduct why can't we all agree, it was inappropriate?

[aviewaskewed]

At 5/12/13 03:22 AM, Ceratisa wrote: I don't get you guys sometimes, if the IRS itself can apologize for inappropriate conduct why can't we all agree, it was inappropriate?

Agreed. The IRS ADMITS it did the wrong thing. There's clearly more to the story, and it's definitely developing into looking like we've got some top people that should have known better that did bad. This is why the strong left can suck as hard as the strong right. It's only wrong or bad when it gets done to your team the "good guys". Fuck, I can have bar conversations with sports fans who are more honest about the triviality of whether or not their football team has a good quarterback then I can with most people about shit that's happening in government.

Bad is bad, and it should be handled and punished.

[Angry-Hatter]

At 5/12/13 03:22 AM, Ceratisa wrote: I don't get you guys sometimes, if the IRS itself can apologize for inappropriate conduct why can't we all agree, it was inappropriate?

You need to keep the conversation in its proper perspective though. Sure it was wrong, but the OP framed the whole entire thing as: "wonder when it will actually be Illegal to not be a liberal".

Someone in a low-level position did something stupid, it was discovered and the IRS acknowledged and apologized for the mess-up, and this somehow turns into a prelude to 1984 by George Orwell. By all means, let's hold their feet to the fire, but let's not act as if this is the end of democracy and free speech.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

well at least the IRS didn't come knocking on my door asking questions about my income for the last year.

I would have been screeewed.

[Camarohusky]

At 5/12/13 02:31 AM, LemonCrush wrote: The news is that a group is being targeted by the government for their political beliefs. Pretty sure having X political beliefs is not a crime.

In other cases I would agree. However, this is not like the IRS targetting a group because of their abortion stance, or their gay marriage, or foreign policy stance. The IRS targetted a group whose main tenet is the opposition of taxes and their collection. That is an automatic red flag for the IRS. If you were to go on TV and openly claim that you oppose taxes and you're questioning whether you should pay them, it would NOT be out of the IRS' purvue to take an extra look at your taxes.

In other words this is no different from the police keeping an extra eye on a guy who claims to be an open Crip and wants to shoot some Bloods.

Now if the organization's beliefs were mostly focused elsewhere, or the IRS did anything more than making them jump through the same extra hoops they do to others hom they suspect of possible tax manipulation then I would say this is bad. That is not the case.

Tax protesters are not criminals.

No they're not, nor were they treated as such. They were treated as persons of interest in the manipulation of their taxes, as their open rhetoric made themselves appear. In short, they finally got to sleep in the bed that they made.

[All-American-Badass]

At 5/11/13 02:30 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: to be fair, a lot of people are in violation of the tax code with out even knowing it.

Well in those people's defense, when the Tax Code is 70k pages there's no way of knowing if your in violation of it and when you have something that massive there's bound to be contradictions.

[Mfan]

At 5/12/13 04:01 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote: but the OP framed the whole entire thing as: "wonder when it will actually be Illegal to not be a liberal"

Alright well that bit was meant as sarcasm, and others have seen that

look i'd be every bit as pissed at this if the shoe was on the other foot, and the irs was targeting libs, because in theory the irs, at EVERY level is supposed to be 100 % bi-partisan (or muli-partsian, w/e), and have no political affiliation whatsoever , or political favoritism

Because the irs is supposed to be the tax man, not the current administration's ministry of fear

[Ceratisa]

look i'd be every bit as pissed at this if the shoe was on the other foot, and the irs was targeting libs, because in theory the irs, at EVERY level is supposed to be 100 % bi-partisan (or muli-partsian, w/e), and have no political affiliation whatsoever , or political favoritism

Because the irs is supposed to be the tax man, not the current administration's ministry of fear

Non-partisan, I believe is the term you want here. In other words not related to either party.

[LemonCrush]

At 5/12/13 10:34 AM, Camarohusky wrote: In other cases I would agree. However, this is not like the IRS targetting a group because of their abortion stance, or their gay marriage, or foreign policy stance. The IRS targetted a group whose main tenet is the opposition of taxes and their collection. That is an automatic red flag for the IRS. If you were to go on TV and openly claim that you oppose taxes and you're questioning whether you should pay them, it would NOT be out of the IRS' purvue to take an extra look at your taxes.

But you should be. That's the problem. Opposing taxes is not an actual crime. just because the government passes a law (that stand in opposition to pre-established laws), and you oppose it, does not make you a criminal. As I've always believed, in the government's eyes, the worse crime one can commit, is not paying taxes.

In other words this is no different from the police keeping an extra eye on a guy who claims to be an open Crip and wants to shoot some Bloods.

Well, it is though, because Bloods and Crips are violent gangs who murder people, and saying something like that is an open threat. A tax protester...not quite the same. Comparing someone who wants to keep their own money, and stand up to government threats, to cold blooded murderers...that's pretty fucked.

No they're not, nor were they treated as such. They were treated as persons of interest in the manipulation of their taxes, as their open rhetoric made themselves appear. In short, they finally got to sleep in the bed that they made.

So, basically, it's their fault that the government is targetting them? Kinda like the girl who's raped could have avoided the whole thing had she not been wearing a short skirt. You're saying people who opposed taxes, non-violent protestors btw, deserved it, because they oppose govt. bullying. That's bullshit dude.

[Feoric]

Are we really going to open up the "taxation is theft" can of worms?

[Angry-Hatter]

At 5/12/13 10:37 AM, Mfan wrote:

At 5/12/13 04:01 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote: but the OP framed the whole entire thing as: "wonder when it will actually be Illegal to not be a liberal"

Alright well that bit was meant as sarcasm, and others have seen that

Well, alright then, I'll take your word for that, but it was not particularly clear that you were being sarcastic. Given that there are a number of people running around here who genuinely think that Obama is a fascist dictator, your comment wasn't far away from what some people might say in earnest on these boards (see Poe's Law).

[Sense-Offender]

At 5/12/13 10:37 AM, Mfan wrote:

At 5/12/13 04:01 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote: but the OP framed the whole entire thing as: "wonder when it will actually be Illegal to not be a liberal"

Alright well that bit was meant as sarcasm, and others have seen that

I think you mean hyperbole. You overdid it, though. But I'm sure we're all guilty of that at some point.

[Korriken]

At 5/12/13 10:34 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

If they were liberal groups, I would agree. However, this is the IRS targetting a conservative group, which is OK by me. Being conservative should be an automatic red flag for the IRS. If you were to go on TV and openly claim that you are not liberal, it should NOT be out of the IRS' purvue to take an extra look at your taxes.

Here, I fixed it for you

In other words this is no different from the police keeping an extra eye on a guy who claims to be an open Crip and wants to shoot some Bloods.

comparing conservatives to criminals. classic left.

Now if the organization's beliefs were mostly focused elsewhere, or the IRS did anything more than making them jump through the same extra hoops they do to others hom they suspect of possible tax manipulation then I would say this is bad. That is not the case.

I don't see how being in opposition to more taxes should red flag you for IRS audits.

No they're not, nor were they treated as such. They were treated as persons of interest in the manipulation of their taxes, as their open rhetoric made themselves appear. In short, they finally got to sleep in the bed that they made.

victim blaming? from you? oh wow your hypocrisy never ends. Apparently, you're entitled to your opinion as long as your opinion isn't in opposition to being taxes more heavily or opposing 'social justice"

[Camarohusky]

At 5/13/13 11:18 AM, Korriken wrote: Here, I fixed it for you

Not an actual response.

comparing conservatives to criminals. classic left.

Way to dodge the actual issue.

I don't see how being in opposition to more taxes should red flag you for IRS audits.

You actually made a cogent point! I am very proud of you.

victim blaming? from you? oh wow your hypocrisy never ends. Apparently, you're entitled to your opinion as long as your opinion isn't in opposition to being taxes more heavily or opposing 'social justice"

Again, missing the point entirely.

The IRS has EVERY reason to take an extra look at those who make speech that is (KEY POINT ALERT) directly related to the IRS' main purpose. That's how the criminal issue is tied in. The group in question openly indicated they were opposed to taxes both future and current. If I paraded around the IRS office saying those same things would it not be well within the IRS' mission to take a closer look at my taxes? Double checking taxes is not illegal, nor is it an abuse of the IRS' power.

The two reasons I see no issue with this is that the reason the groups were targetted falls within the IRS' purvue, and the actions they took were not illegal nor abusive. (I wonder how many more times I have to repeat this before those with their blinders up actually understand.)

[Ceratisa]

the IRS admitted it was in the wrong, so I don't see how you can keep saying they were right.

[BrianEtrius]

At 5/13/13 12:26 PM, Ceratisa wrote: the IRS admitted it was in the wrong, so I don't see how you can keep saying they were right.

What I think Cam's saying is not what the IRS did was right, but rather the reasoning behind the actions in the first place were justifiable.

Let's put it this way: if I said I was going to go rob a bank and make that a public message, don't you think the FBI's going to come check me out? Now, I haven't actually done anything illegal, but if it's in the interest of the public then government's going to step in and at least say, "Hey, don't do that." Granted, like I said earlier, in this case what the IRS did was wrong, but their reasoning behind it is sound. A group is threatening to break the law where the IRS has means to prevent them from doing so. GOVERNMENT IN ACTION. OH MY GOD. IT ACTUALLY DOES WORK

Besides, who's stupid enough to say out loud that they don't pay taxes? Of course that's going to get you looked at at least....

[Ceratisa]

No one was trying to break the law though, it was about gaining tax-exempt status. And organizations with the words "Patriot" or "Tea-party" were on a list to single out for additional review.

[Mfan]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/irs-kept-shifting-targets-tax-
071821874.html

and more details arrive

"When tax agents started singling out non-profit groups for extra scrutiny in 2010, they looked at first only for key words such as 'Tea Party,' but later they focused on criticisms by groups of "how the country is being run," according to investigative findings reviewed by Reuters on Sunday."

but later they focused on criticisms by groups of "how the country is being run,"