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At 4/25/13 04:09 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: I am not trying to change your mind your are entitled to believe what you want but the facts are the facts. Are you not concerned that US has a clandestine SS Nazi outfit that answers to nobody even though it is funded by your money ?

for the 1000th time i'm not saying the things you are claiming are false. I'm just saying that isn't what fascism entails.

Is this thread a competition to see how far you can jam your head up your own ass? Jesus Christ, people.

Where's the jailing of civil rights activists and journalists...y'know, something which happens in countries heading towards fascism? Where are examples of Black Water or other government-contracted mercenaries/ex-military "security" teams breaking Democratic meetings or raiding Jill Stein's campaign offices? If you think Bush/Obama are fascists and modern American conservatism/liberalism is fascism in disguise then you're incredibly ignorant of history and what a fascist actually is.

At 4/25/13 04:41 PM, orangebomb wrote: Except that it's not. Corporations don't make decisions involving national policy or anything like that, and to suggest that they are is ludicrous. Now influencing politicians, that's different, because there has been numerous accounts of that happening for a long time, but to suggest that corporations and government are forming some sort of fascist state in America is way off base.

Wait, so you're saying that the huge corporations and the government don't work together? Are you living under a rock? How do you have access to the internet, yet are totally insulated from world events like the passing of Obamacare, for example?

They are prominent in every government in the world, and if anything, it's a lot worse in other places than anything we have here. The only reason why no one brings this up is that they are either irrelevant in the world stage, or they are in the Middle East, where this behavior is commonplace.

So it's commonplace, so it's okay? That's great.

Mostly said by hard right wing pundits and nutjobs. Most people question the government all the time, why do you think this session of Congress had the lowest approval rating of all time? Words like "anti-american" or "unpatriotic" are nothing more than cheap buzzwords used by them to initiate a political flame war, and get the ignorant riled up over rhetoric.

Right wing pundits? Hell, I've seen it more under the Obama admin and his media than anywhere else. But that aside, regardless of who's doing it, that doesn't make it right, or any less true. if you don't support the government and their bloodthirst, or their attempt to control you're life, you're "unamerican" or "racist" or "don't support the troops" or some such bullshit.

First off, do you have credible sources for all that?

First google result

Second, Freedom of speech does not cover blatant slander of a person or a group of people. Plus, Freedom of speech means that no one is stopping you from saying what you want to say, but that extends towards the other side as well. Not to mention making serious threats towards anyone for whatever reason is generally not tolerated towards anybody, and the so called "fairness acts" usually didn't pass.

I'm pretty sure i'm allowed to criticize any religion or race if i wanted to. I can print a magazine or newspaper with pretty much anything I want. Look up the obscenity law cases of the 70s and 80s. Media is pretty much constitutionally protected by the 1A, outside of things like snuff films of course. YOU may not agree with it, however, that's how the SCOTUS sees it.

You know we came a long way from blatant racism right? {Jim Crow laws} Granted, Affirmative action was a pretty bad thing that was based on good intentions in mind, but that is nowhere near as racist as the Jim Crow laws of the American South or Apartheid in South Africa.

There aren't different degrees of racism, in my mind. all of it is equally morally reprehensible.

The fact that people throw around claims that America is a fascist country because of XYZ is simply don't get it, and are simply just using cheap buzzwords and sensationalized media to express their point, just because they don't like something that we do. I've never said that America doesn't have problems, but they are not what you think it is, contrary to your opinion.

Well, except it falls right into what the El duce says fascism is...

At 4/25/13 06:43 PM, LemonCrush wrote:

At 4/25/13 04:09 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: I am not trying to change your mind your are entitled to believe what you want but the facts are the facts. Are you not concerned that US has a clandestine SS Nazi outfit that answers to nobody even though it is funded by your money ?

for the 1000th time i'm not saying the things you are claiming are false. I'm just saying that isn't what fascism entails.

The Initiation of force as a means to an end is "part" of the fascist manifesto not to mention anti free-market so yes the Government using the Initiation of force to oppress people into taxation in turn used to pay for Black Water ops is highly fascist.

"Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means .. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

why don't you educate yourself there is hardly anything malevolent with Black Water.

I already defined Black Water as a 3rd part security detail that answers to no one. Now you are coming off as a troll.

America invented fascism...

The nazi's just picked it up and went one step further. You could already say we are facist. Since facism is the merger of state and corporate power.

We're just in fascism lite but the iron grip closes tighter everyday.

NDAA, Monsanto Protection Act, news propaganda. cult of personality, wage slavery, private prison industrial complex, military industrial complex. security industrial complex, secret prisons, habeus corpus that can be rescinded at will, the lockdown of a major metropolitan area with 20,000 police armed with automatic rifles and conducting house to house searches for one lone 19 year old suspect.

FOR GOD SAKES!

What more do people need to realize we are already fascist? Apparently they expect regular police to put on nazi uniforms with swastikas.
I ask you all- If all our local PD's were given the same uniform on a federal level and all our senators and congressmen wore them too would you finally realize the fascism?

Maybe they need to speak with a german accent

At 4/25/13 07:08 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

they have to follow international laws and US just like anyone else in hot zones like Iraq if something goes wrong there's a Senate hearing and formal federal government investigations due to Black Water doing government contracts.

so yes they answer to US. your the one being a troll here.

We all know how much respect Fascist countries have for Human rights right. It's The USA that's the troll here.

At 4/25/13 07:18 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 4/25/13 07:15 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: We all know how much respect Fascist countries have for Human rights right. It's The USA that's the troll here.

if Black Water goes into a country where US military operates they have to follow protocol of a US civilian visiting and the regulations they have for their US operation Contracts.

Says who ?

At 4/25/13 07:31 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 4/25/13 07:28 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Says who ?

says the US government. jesus pay attention.

Oh my god cause Uncle Sam says so ... Wel then there ya go.

Anyone bother to watch the Security proceedures used in the Watertown area looking for 1 skinny so called terrorist ?

After telling people they had to stay in their homes & any who weren't home could not return home
Total suspension of rights of Americans, they entered any place at gunpoint, .
Going from home after home & at the point of a gun, forcing men women & children from their homes, they acted just as absolute goons & without warrant, without probable cause went through homes EXACTLY like Brown shirt Nazi's went through neighborhoods & Jewish communities & all these Freedom protecting American "police forces" accomplished was nothing ! ! !
Nothing except their experiment on how to take out an American neighborhood house by house...that was a complete success.

Watch the Youtube video's ..they are disgusting & scary tolitarian policestate in action.
Which is obviously the new normal situation in the Facist States of America ,
Time to change a few stanza's of your Anthem guy's to something like ... "& the home of the no longer Free, & barely anyone who is Brave ."

Just callin' a spade a spade.

At 4/25/13 07:04 PM, Kel-chan wrote: America invented fascism...

The nazi's just picked it up and went one step further. You could already say we are facist. Since facism is the merger of state and corporate power.

Merger, not co-existence.

We're just in fascism lite but the iron grip closes tighter everyday.

NDAA,

That would make sense if it was actually used against political opponents.

Monsanto Protection Act,

Which turned out to be a small part of a large bill which didn't do much?

news propaganda.

What? You mean news which just provides the news? Or gives a slant to it? Which is common in all free media?

cult of personality,

Really? Because I typed "Obama is " into google and the first 4 suggestions were "Obama is gay" "Obama is a Muslim" "Obama is a liar" "Obama is an idiot". There is so much hatred towards the President whoever it is that there is simply no Cult of Personality.

wage slavery,

That would make sense if Minimum wage wasn't federally mandated.

private prison industrial complex,

Um what? Private prisons aren't that prominent. Government prisons are so terrible on their own private prisons should be a godsend.

military industrial complex.

Ah this is a pretty popular target of left wing criticism. All it means is that military contractors sell to the government and gain influence in it. The problem though is that you don't really need a war to increase the purchases of military equipment, the 1980's proved just that. Now the only way it can have any influence is in matters of budget cuts being deflected from the defense budget, which is the only area of their interest. That is a problem in itself but that has more to do with Congressmen being unwilling to cut jobs in the military industry rather than outright corruption.

security industrial complex,

That's like the military industrial complex too, like those scanners which can show body images but are absolutely useless. Again it's security contractors wanting money, not them actually perpetuating terrorist attacks or anything and it's Congressmen unwilling to hurt the economy AND look like they're soft on security.

secret prisons,

Meh, people hate any prison where these terrorists go so it doesn't really matter. I mean there was a huge uproar when Obama tried to move the prisoners in Guantanamo to American prisons, other than that they moved them to secret prisons which were later discovered. Now what has happened? Drone strikes have increased because the government simply cannot capture them because it has nowhere to put them. So yah anything the government does people are going to hate.

habeus corpus that can be rescinded at will,

Um not really. Obama didn't even do that to the Boston Bombers.

the lockdown of a major metropolitan area with 20,000 police armed with automatic rifles and conducting house to house searches for one lone 19 year old suspect.

Uh how is that Fascist?

FOR GOD SAKES!

What more do people need to realize we are already fascist? Apparently they expect regular police to put on nazi uniforms with swastikas.

I think people would realize that their government is Fascist when political opponents are imprisoned, when news media is shut down and taken over by the government, when the President is constantly praised at every instant, and more importantly when people like you who go around saying that "truth" are hunted down and imprisoned.

I ask you all- If all our local PD's were given the same uniform on a federal level and all our senators and congressmen wore them too would you finally realize the fascism?

Maybe they need to speak with a german accent

You quite clearly don't understand Fascism. Although you're not alone in that in seems.

At 4/25/13 07:41 PM, morefngdbs wrote: Anyone bother to watch the Security proceedures used in the Watertown area looking for 1 skinny so called terrorist ?

After telling people they had to stay in their homes & any who weren't home could not return home
Total suspension of rights of Americans, they entered any place at gunpoint, .
Going from home after home & at the point of a gun, forcing men women & children from their homes, they acted just as absolute goons & without warrant, without probable cause went through homes EXACTLY like Brown shirt Nazi's went through neighborhoods & Jewish communities & all these Freedom protecting American "police forces" accomplished was nothing ! ! !

You're seriously comparing the efforts of the BPD, SWAT, State Police etc in response to a domestic terror threat to Nazis? What the fuck is wrong with you?

At 4/25/13 08:31 PM, Feoric wrote:

You're seriously comparing the efforts of the BPD, SWAT, State Police etc in response to a domestic terror threat to Nazis? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Feoric clearly you are pro fascist !

At 4/25/13 08:34 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Feoric clearly you are pro fascist !

Only if they come after you first.

At 4/25/13 07:55 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 4/25/13 07:32 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Oh my god cause Uncle Sam says so ... Wel then there ya go.

and they have suspended certain BlackWater contract and fined them for TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars for incidents of misconduct, but that would never happen in a fascist country..

LOL if the government truly wanted to get rid of Black Water they would simply stop funding them with your tax dollars LOL.

At 4/25/13 09:08 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 4/25/13 08:37 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: LOL if the government truly wanted to get rid of Black Water they would simply stop funding them with your tax dollars LOL.

no Black water is a private company our tax money only goes to their paychecks for the contracts themselves which are very few seeing as Blackwater has been doing jobs for Public companies abroad to.

try again troll.

Black Water gets Tax dollars and the fact is you will never know how much because your Government is among the most corrupt governments in the world.

Define Government - to subjugate people both at home and abroad.

At 4/25/13 09:54 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

its a privately held company of the founders and a few investors, the only tax money they get is the money for payment for their contracts.

So you agree they get funded from tax dollars.

maybe the word that would more aptly describe it is some sort of oligarchy or plutocracy

At 4/25/13 09:57 PM, Kel-chan wrote: maybe the word that would more aptly describe it is some sort of oligarchy or plutocracy

That would be a lie. It's highly Fascist by definition and practice.

At 4/25/13 10:05 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 4/25/13 09:57 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: So you agree they get funded from tax dollars.

only half. only a small fraction they do work for public companies to like Haliburton they train foreign military's oil and insurance companies, private companies. then they have a R&D Department that make training courses, K-9 Dogs and Armored Personal Carriers.

USA initiates the use of violence by taking money from the people by force and giving it to Black Water to initiate Violence on whom or what ever "The State" deems to be a terrorist. This is text book Fascism.

Weather BW gets 1penny or 1 million dollars it's the ideal that's corrupt.