At 4/30/13 10:03 PM, alternativesolution wrote:

At 4/30/13 09:40 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: I suppose I've been ignored.

As always, when I'm here to help remedy the situation.

Acknowledging someone does not necessarily mean ignoring someone else.

You are trying to be helpful, and that matters. Thank you.

I try.....

That being said though: perhaps a tactful, humble request is due? (Though I'll say right off the bat that when making that request for this to be pinned, let's leave it at the request and not expect an affirmative or negative answer.)

I think it's ridiculous that threads like this can't get pinned on this forum. The first post of this thread is something everyone who regularly works with musicians should be aware of, and it's the sort of thing that would get pinned anywhere else. I'm sure there's a good reason for that decision, but it just seems bizarre to me.

At 5/4/13 12:24 PM, Juicebomb wrote: I think it's ridiculous that threads like this can't get pinned on this forum. The first post of this thread is something everyone who regularly works with musicians should be aware of, and it's the sort of thing that would get pinned anywhere else. I'm sure there's a good reason for that decision, but it just seems bizarre to me.

THANK. YOU.
And I'm not saying this to make waters murky, I'm saying it because these are things that should be there.

At any rate: I believe I have an idea of what to do with this thread...

The ideas here are basic, but rarely are they ever followed. When you're working with amateurs on Newgrounds, then you should expect amateur behavior.

However, I feel as though the language was unnecessary and if you didn't sound like you were pitching a fit, then I think this thread would receive more positive attention. The guidelines you've expressed here are good, though. It wouldn't surprise me if a staff member implements information like this into the site sometime in the future.

At 5/4/13 05:20 PM, Bosa wrote: However, I feel as though the language was unnecessary and if you didn't sound like you were pitching a fit, then I think this thread would receive more positive attention.

I will not sugarcoat the solution to a problem that needs to be dealt with.

At 5/5/13 08:41 AM, Elitistinen wrote: Look, OP, I think your egos have just overflown your own right thoughts. Take it serious, neither this thread, nor any other is going to get pinned in very long time.

Do you think your is special? Do you think you are the only one gets to speak up about this? Do you think Audio forum is so special on this situation? Do you think other forums have the same problems? Think again.

Not if I can help it! If he can't see that these thoughts get pinned, then I will, however long it takes!

Other forums may have the same problems but we're Newgrounds, we have a culture and a closeness that is distinct from the many other forums I've been on (heck, I've been on OCRemix's forums and even on the FL Studio forums but NG's is something else). If the Fulps even bothered to help us add a few musical genres, they can afford to inculcate respect, and that's why they allowed for each side of the forum to have particular rules. Give us a break!

It would be far less painful and gain far more exposure to create a separate website on the matter (that's what I have been working on for weeks) and instead see if it can be linked on the help page or something like that. A thread on NG vs. a website? The website will get far more attention, especially if well made.

This will be the last derailment of this thread. If you want to fight this out with me, take it to me via PM or Skype. I will not tolerate this nonsense coming from you or from anyone.

At 5/5/13 09:22 AM, Elitistinen wrote: Why nobody ever thinks for other but themselves?

Excuse me. I'm not doing this because I'm an activist of some sort, or that I think it concerns me. I stood up for a friend. That is all. And if that friend points out a problem that's been going on around here, he's right to do so.

Granted, as Bosa said: it was not the best worded. Samulis even mentioned a way of bringing this up. Great, at least we have some means of getting the word out there. Being a law student and already having studied Intellectual Property, I could actually just not give this thread two hoots because I know precisely how to deal with these situations, so technically, others could be left in the dark.

The site owners have bigger problems to worry than pinning some unknown thread to the board. Also, am I the only one in this thread knows the numbers of admins who can maintain the site is less than 5? Culture this, culture that. NG is NG, you can't change that. Thank you for pointing out the obvious fact that older forums have this feature. Also, you mention the admins created genres. It was for the good of Audio Portal, not Audio Forum. Is for greater good, not little good.

Mind you, I understand that we're not the ones making the decisions here. Ultimately the admins themselves will. But honestly, is the greater good just taking people for granted? Yes, yes, people can say caveat emptor (buyer beware), and that can apply for pretty much anything, even posting music for projects. But that's only going to lead to more abuse, and judging from the affirmative/encouraging/correcting responses over here, at least most of the people here have horse sense to note that this will bring about a great good for pretty much any user on NG when it is tailored for their specific trade.

Again, I emphasise that we're not the ones making the decisions here, but I won't have anyone implying that we're here to be trod on/ignored, because that's not the point of the forums either. Someone brings up a series of salient points, people have given him cred for it, and that is all I see.

I won't be sure about when a thread gets pinned, but I am sure pinning shit on the board is on the admins' to-do list, and I hope you have this mindset already.

Whether they do or not is yet to be seen; if they do pin it, it'll be appreciated.

Excuse me. I'm not doing this because I'm an activist of some sort, or that I think it concerns me. I stood up for a friend. That is all. And if that friend points out a problem that's been going on around here, he's right to do so.

Then you should learn how to stand up for a friend in the right way. Not to stand up for someone even you know shits were wrong (unless you insist, which looks like you are doing now)

I only stand up for him because the spirit of what he is doing is right. Don't take this the wrong way: I got angered, because your comment of 'do you think you're special or this thread is special' is unwarranted at best. I also want to address: this thread of requesting for musicians? There may have been earlier ones, but this is the first that I've ever actively seen and participated in. As they say, better late than never. In fact, I was on the track of asking for this gently, asking feedback, asking what could be improved, until I started seeing unwarranted comments over here. It's immaterial whether I do it now or whether I've done it three years ago.

Granted, as Bosa said: it was not the best worded. Samulis even mentioned a way of bringing this up. Great, at least we have some means of getting the word out there. Being a law student and already having studied Intellectual Property, I could actually just not give this thread two hoots because I know precisely how to deal with these situations, so technically, others could be left in the dark.

Being a law student has nothing to do with neither this thread nor our little civilized debate. You sound like you give some much care for threads like this, because if you do, then you should have done it quite a while ago. Also, look how far you go beside endless other 'little debates' with those who has different opinions than yours? (Digging up old threads was quite a challenge...)

Don't look this debate as a wrong way, this is not an ad hominem, just because things go against your feelings.

See above.

Mind you, I understand that we're not the ones making the decisions here. Ultimately the admins themselves will. But honestly, is the greater good just taking people for granted? Yes, yes, people can say caveat emptor (buyer beware), and that can apply for pretty much anything, even posting music for projects. But that's only going to lead to more abuse, and judging from the affirmative/encouraging/correcting responses over here, at least most of the people here have horse sense to note that this will bring about a great good for pretty much any user on NG when it is tailored for their specific trade.

Let's cut this simple since we are both grown-ups, no needs for tit tat fight. Since you are talking about trade, some talks on productivity won't hurt (not all law students do business).

The manufacturer won't make change to a product if the change is unnecessary. Perhaps each change needs a lot of manpower and cost to perform. NG doesn't have either. Also, NG contents are half give-away (I'm not talking about user-generated contents). NG survives up to date by the supports of advertisement and user-bought contents. But those gains get eaten up quickly by the cost of maintenance and running all the systems. Plus the admins need to feed themselves too.

Pinning thread up the wall is an unnecessary change. I think most people see this pretty clear. You can wish for this and that, but in the end you know things can't be changed they are not important to the survival of the product.

If we want to nitpick here on what makes necessary or unnecessary changes, NG could've stayed the way it was several years ago for many respects, including layout, genres and a few other minor changes, but they were done anyway. No need to be pedantic. Changes are made where it is seen fit, and I don't think that you or I are in the place to decide what makes a necessary or unnecessary change, bearing in mind all that you've said. We've mentioned all that we have; all we can do now is ask graciously and leave it at that.

Besides, if it were an unnecessary change then why has there been quite a bit of input on this already besides your comments and mine?

Okay everyone, before this gets locked out of your continued argument...

Let's identify the reasons why this thread should and shouldn't be pinned and/or adapted to the rules of this section...

Should:
1. It provides information that is pertinent to anyone creating a thread looking for music that will help them decide what is best.
2. It helps cut back on the "Hi I'm 12 and what is this?" factor of people requesting music.
3. It generates a set level of what is acceptable for an audio request.
4. We've been waiting for someone to say this for years.

Shouldn't:
1. It is harsh and reprimanding in tone, and too terse at points to be of use.
2. The audience who would actually read the rules and/or pinned thread before posting probably is smart enough to think about it anyway.
3. Pinning isn't a possible feature on the site... the admins would have to add it JUST for this one little thread, which seems to be a bit too much.
4. The content of this thread can be expressed elsewhere with better word choices and more content that is more suitable and will be more visible, such as on its own website or the like.

So what should be done?
I feel it is best that we take the ideas of this thread and put them somewhere safe, probably off Newgrounds but still very accessible- a website or tutorial somewhere... I could even host it if needed. I think a lot more could be said in this that would be more helpful, so working with a number of veteran game/film scorers around the site to add to it would be a good idea.

However, I would like to say once again- the perpetrators of the issue, those who post poor requests, will probably not benefit no matter what you do. They are too rushed by the ecstasy of creation to bother learning to "do it right". Those who are mature enough to learn to do it right would be turned off by a post like this. Whatever is added to the rules, or pinned, or uploaded somewhere for all the world to see MUST be professional, well-written, and even-minded. It cannot be a rant like this. This was a great rallying speech, but would to little to solve the issue. I suggest, as I said above, that someone starts collaborating on this and gets some thoughts together from multiple people.

Ok, you know what... I had already come in here to say, as much as I appreciate the thought behind the thread, we can not pin it... Not will not, CAN NOT.

Arguing about it is completely pointless. If you want threads to be able to be pinned... take your suggestions directly to the Admins, instead of derailing a thread that actually has some useful information in it.

I'm not locking this yet, as I have faint hope that civil discussion can continue... but there will be no more arguing about pinning.

At 5/5/13 11:21 AM, samulis wrote: Let's identify the reasons why this thread should and shouldn't be pinned and/or adapted to the rules of this section...

Should:

Shouldn't:

So what should be done?

Objective, and examines more than just one aspect of the discussion. This here is all that needs to be said, really.

I suppose we can just link this (or similar threads/websites/articles) to the people who users think could benefit from the content of this thread when a new request is made.
The sooner the linking the better, so that the OP can quickly adjust their needs and post them again still near the top of their thread. At this point that's all I can think of, really.