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How To Request a Musician

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Troisnyx
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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-04-30 19:02:13 Reply

At 4/30/13 06:48 PM, Acrylia wrote:
At 4/27/13 05:55 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
At 4/27/13 05:40 PM, Acrylia wrote: Due to popular demand, let's see if this shit gets pinned.
The best thing to do, to bring it to his attention, is to either PM them or make mention of it in a news post. PMing would be the better option. But of course, keep the link!
I prefer not to go to a moderator and say "Hey look, this thing I made is awesome, you should pin it!" That's a little arrogant.

No, don't word it like that: Always take the clement approach. Say that after careful deliberation, having observed the amount of music request threads that have gone wrong, you have put together a list of guidelines -- ask if it needs reviewing anywhere, and say that you and the rest of us on the AP would appreciate it if this were enshrined somewhere, rather than just forgotten on the AP -- and the same rules should apply, but with variations, for people with different specialisations here on NG.

Ask for feedback. It always pays to be humble when bringing this up to the Staff: the point that you are trying to get across is that you and other AP users are making a genuine effort to promote respect in the Forums/Portal, not a case of "hey, look, I made it and it's awesome".


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Acrylia
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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-04-30 20:50:54 Reply

At 4/30/13 06:52 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: We can't pin/sticky topics anyways... and the chances of an admin doing it are slim to none. As good as the post is, nothing ever gets stickied on these forums, it's a design decision by the staff, and I doubt they're going to change their mind.

Gotcha mate.

KatMaestro
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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-04-30 21:23:24 Reply

At 4/30/13 08:50 PM, Acrylia wrote: Gotcha mate.

Dat feelin'

of winning!
Troisnyx
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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-04-30 21:40:20 Reply

At 4/30/13 08:50 PM, Acrylia wrote:
At 4/30/13 06:52 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: We can't pin/sticky topics anyways... and the chances of an admin doing it are slim to none. As good as the post is, nothing ever gets stickied on these forums, it's a design decision by the staff, and I doubt they're going to change their mind.
Gotcha mate.

I suppose I've been ignored.

As always, when I'm here to help remedy the situation.


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alternativesolution
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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-04-30 22:03:41 Reply

At 4/30/13 09:40 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: I suppose I've been ignored.

As always, when I'm here to help remedy the situation.

Acknowledging someone does not necessarily mean ignoring someone else.

You are trying to be helpful, and that matters. Thank you.


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Troisnyx
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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-01 08:50:30 Reply

At 4/30/13 10:03 PM, alternativesolution wrote:
At 4/30/13 09:40 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: I suppose I've been ignored.

As always, when I'm here to help remedy the situation.
Acknowledging someone does not necessarily mean ignoring someone else.

You are trying to be helpful, and that matters. Thank you.

I try.....

That being said though: perhaps a tactful, humble request is due? (Though I'll say right off the bat that when making that request for this to be pinned, let's leave it at the request and not expect an affirmative or negative answer.)


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Juicebomb
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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-04 12:24:29 Reply

I think it's ridiculous that threads like this can't get pinned on this forum. The first post of this thread is something everyone who regularly works with musicians should be aware of, and it's the sort of thing that would get pinned anywhere else. I'm sure there's a good reason for that decision, but it just seems bizarre to me.

Troisnyx
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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-04 13:49:11 Reply

At 5/4/13 12:24 PM, Juicebomb wrote: I think it's ridiculous that threads like this can't get pinned on this forum. The first post of this thread is something everyone who regularly works with musicians should be aware of, and it's the sort of thing that would get pinned anywhere else. I'm sure there's a good reason for that decision, but it just seems bizarre to me.

THANK. YOU.
And I'm not saying this to make waters murky, I'm saying it because these are things that should be there.

At any rate: I believe I have an idea of what to do with this thread...


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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-04 17:20:58 Reply

The ideas here are basic, but rarely are they ever followed. When you're working with amateurs on Newgrounds, then you should expect amateur behavior.

However, I feel as though the language was unnecessary and if you didn't sound like you were pitching a fit, then I think this thread would receive more positive attention. The guidelines you've expressed here are good, though. It wouldn't surprise me if a staff member implements information like this into the site sometime in the future.


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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 00:25:36 Reply

At 5/4/13 05:20 PM, Bosa wrote: However, I feel as though the language was unnecessary and if you didn't sound like you were pitching a fit, then I think this thread would receive more positive attention.

I will not sugarcoat the solution to a problem that needs to be dealt with.

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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 08:41:37 Reply

Look, OP, I think your egos have just overflown your own right thoughts. Take it serious, neither this thread, nor any other is going to get pinned in very long time.

Do you think your is special? Do you think you are the only one gets to speak up about this? Do you think Audio forum is so special on this situation? Do you think other forums have the same problems? Think again.

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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 08:55:54 Reply

At 5/5/13 08:41 AM, Elitistinen wrote: Look, OP, I think your egos have just overflown your own right thoughts. Take it serious, neither this thread, nor any other is going to get pinned in very long time.

Do you think your is special? Do you think you are the only one gets to speak up about this? Do you think Audio forum is so special on this situation? Do you think other forums have the same problems? Think again.

Not if I can help it! If he can't see that these thoughts get pinned, then I will, however long it takes!

Other forums may have the same problems but we're Newgrounds, we have a culture and a closeness that is distinct from the many other forums I've been on (heck, I've been on OCRemix's forums and even on the FL Studio forums but NG's is something else). If the Fulps even bothered to help us add a few musical genres, they can afford to inculcate respect, and that's why they allowed for each side of the forum to have particular rules. Give us a break!


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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 09:01:35 Reply

It would be far less painful and gain far more exposure to create a separate website on the matter (that's what I have been working on for weeks) and instead see if it can be linked on the help page or something like that. A thread on NG vs. a website? The website will get far more attention, especially if well made.


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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 09:22:22 Reply

At 5/5/13 08:55 AM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
At 5/5/13 08:41 AM, Elitistinen wrote: Look, OP, I think your egos have just overflown your own right thoughts. Take it serious, neither this thread, nor any other is going to get pinned in very long time.

Do you think your is special? Do you think you are the only one gets to speak up about this? Do you think Audio forum is so special on this situation? Do you think other forums have the same problems? Think again.
Not if I can help it! If he can't see that these thoughts get pinned, then I will, however long it takes!

Other forums may have the same problems but we're Newgrounds, we have a culture and a closeness that is distinct from the many other forums I've been on (heck, I've been on OCRemix's forums and even on the FL Studio forums but NG's is something else). If the Fulps even bothered to help us add a few musical genres, they can afford to inculcate respect, and that's why they allowed for each side of the forum to have particular rules. Give us a break!

Why nobody ever thinks for other but themselves?

The site owners have bigger problems to worry than pinning some unknown thread to the board. Also, am I the only one in this thread knows the numbers of admins who can maintain the site is less than 5? Culture this, culture that. NG is NG, you can't change that. Thank you for pointing out the obvious fact that older forums have this feature. Also, you mention the admins created genres. It was for the good of Audio Portal, not Audio Forum. Is for greater good, not little good.

I won't be sure about when a thread gets pinned, but I am sure pinning shit on the board is on the admins' to-do list, and I hope you have this mindset already.

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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 09:25:34 Reply

At 5/5/13 09:01 AM, samulis wrote: A thread on NG vs. a website?

Someone mentions a very great point that seems like majority on this forum can't seem to realize.

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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 09:32:11 Reply

This will be the last derailment of this thread. If you want to fight this out with me, take it to me via PM or Skype. I will not tolerate this nonsense coming from you or from anyone.

At 5/5/13 09:22 AM, Elitistinen wrote: Why nobody ever thinks for other but themselves?

Excuse me. I'm not doing this because I'm an activist of some sort, or that I think it concerns me. I stood up for a friend. That is all. And if that friend points out a problem that's been going on around here, he's right to do so.

Granted, as Bosa said: it was not the best worded. Samulis even mentioned a way of bringing this up. Great, at least we have some means of getting the word out there. Being a law student and already having studied Intellectual Property, I could actually just not give this thread two hoots because I know precisely how to deal with these situations, so technically, others could be left in the dark.

The site owners have bigger problems to worry than pinning some unknown thread to the board. Also, am I the only one in this thread knows the numbers of admins who can maintain the site is less than 5? Culture this, culture that. NG is NG, you can't change that. Thank you for pointing out the obvious fact that older forums have this feature. Also, you mention the admins created genres. It was for the good of Audio Portal, not Audio Forum. Is for greater good, not little good.

Mind you, I understand that we're not the ones making the decisions here. Ultimately the admins themselves will. But honestly, is the greater good just taking people for granted? Yes, yes, people can say caveat emptor (buyer beware), and that can apply for pretty much anything, even posting music for projects. But that's only going to lead to more abuse, and judging from the affirmative/encouraging/correcting responses over here, at least most of the people here have horse sense to note that this will bring about a great good for pretty much any user on NG when it is tailored for their specific trade.

Again, I emphasise that we're not the ones making the decisions here, but I won't have anyone implying that we're here to be trod on/ignored, because that's not the point of the forums either. Someone brings up a series of salient points, people have given him cred for it, and that is all I see.

I won't be sure about when a thread gets pinned, but I am sure pinning shit on the board is on the admins' to-do list, and I hope you have this mindset already.

Whether they do or not is yet to be seen; if they do pin it, it'll be appreciated.


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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 10:02:14 Reply

Helvettiin, someone takes this quite far.

At 5/5/13 09:32 AM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: This will be the last derailment of this thread. If you want to fight this out with me, take it to me via PM or Skype. I will not tolerate this nonsense coming from you or from anyone.

At 5/5/13 09:22 AM, Elitistinen wrote: Why nobody ever thinks for other but themselves?
Excuse me. I'm not doing this because I'm an activist of some sort, or that I think it concerns me. I stood up for a friend. That is all. And if that friend points out a problem that's been going on around here, he's right to do so.

Then you should learn how to stand up for a friend in the right way. Not to stand up for someone even you know shits were wrong (unless you insist, which looks like you are doing now)


Granted, as Bosa said: it was not the best worded. Samulis even mentioned a way of bringing this up. Great, at least we have some means of getting the word out there. Being a law student and already having studied Intellectual Property, I could actually just not give this thread two hoots because I know precisely how to deal with these situations, so technically, others could be left in the dark.

Being a law student has nothing to do with neither this thread nor our little civilized debate. You sound like you give some much care for threads like this, because if you do, then you should have done it quite a while ago. Also, look how far you go beside endless other 'little debates' with those who has different opinions than yours? (Digging up old threads was quite a challenge...)

Don't look this debate as a wrong way, this is not an ad hominem, just because things go against your feelings.

The site owners have bigger problems to worry than pinning some unknown thread to the board. Also, am I the only one in this thread knows the numbers of admins who can maintain the site is less than 5? Culture this, culture that. NG is NG, you can't change that. Thank you for pointing out the obvious fact that older forums have this feature. Also, you mention the admins created genres. It was for the good of Audio Portal, not Audio Forum. Is for greater good, not little good.
Mind you, I understand that we're not the ones making the decisions here. Ultimately the admins themselves will. But honestly, is the greater good just taking people for granted? Yes, yes, people can say caveat emptor (buyer beware), and that can apply for pretty much anything, even posting music for projects. But that's only going to lead to more abuse, and judging from the affirmative/encouraging/correcting responses over here, at least most of the people here have horse sense to note that this will bring about a great good for pretty much any user on NG when it is tailored for their specific trade.

Let's cut this simple since we are both grown-ups, no needs for tit tat fight. Since you are talking about trade, some talks on productivity won't hurt (not all law students do business).

The manufacturer won't make change to a product if the change is unnecessary. Perhaps each change needs a lot of manpower and cost to perform. NG doesn't have either. Also, NG contents are half give-away (I'm not talking about user-generated contents). NG survives up to date by the supports of advertisement and user-bought contents. But those gains get eaten up quickly by the cost of maintenance and running all the systems. Plus the admins need to feed themselves too.

Pinning thread up the wall is an unnecessary change. I think most people see this pretty clear. You can wish for this and that, but in the end you know things can't be changed they are not important to the survival of the product.

Again, I emphasise that we're not the ones making the decisions here, but I won't have anyone implying that we're here to be trod on/ignored, because that's not the point of the forums either. Someone brings up a series of salient points, people have given him cred for it, and that is all I see.

Tons of other thread should have given the same 'cred'. Why this? Your friend? Favoristism at best.

I won't be sure about when a thread gets pinned, but I am sure pinning shit on the board is on the admins' to-do list, and I hope you have this mindset already.
Whether they do or not is yet to be seen; if they do pin it, it'll be appreciated.
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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 10:14:17 Reply

Excuse me. I'm not doing this because I'm an activist of some sort, or that I think it concerns me. I stood up for a friend. That is all. And if that friend points out a problem that's been going on around here, he's right to do so.
Then you should learn how to stand up for a friend in the right way. Not to stand up for someone even you know shits were wrong (unless you insist, which looks like you are doing now)

I only stand up for him because the spirit of what he is doing is right. Don't take this the wrong way: I got angered, because your comment of 'do you think you're special or this thread is special' is unwarranted at best. I also want to address: this thread of requesting for musicians? There may have been earlier ones, but this is the first that I've ever actively seen and participated in. As they say, better late than never. In fact, I was on the track of asking for this gently, asking feedback, asking what could be improved, until I started seeing unwarranted comments over here. It's immaterial whether I do it now or whether I've done it three years ago.


Granted, as Bosa said: it was not the best worded. Samulis even mentioned a way of bringing this up. Great, at least we have some means of getting the word out there. Being a law student and already having studied Intellectual Property, I could actually just not give this thread two hoots because I know precisely how to deal with these situations, so technically, others could be left in the dark.
Being a law student has nothing to do with neither this thread nor our little civilized debate. You sound like you give some much care for threads like this, because if you do, then you should have done it quite a while ago. Also, look how far you go beside endless other 'little debates' with those who has different opinions than yours? (Digging up old threads was quite a challenge...)

Don't look this debate as a wrong way, this is not an ad hominem, just because things go against your feelings.

See above.

Mind you, I understand that we're not the ones making the decisions here. Ultimately the admins themselves will. But honestly, is the greater good just taking people for granted? Yes, yes, people can say caveat emptor (buyer beware), and that can apply for pretty much anything, even posting music for projects. But that's only going to lead to more abuse, and judging from the affirmative/encouraging/correcting responses over here, at least most of the people here have horse sense to note that this will bring about a great good for pretty much any user on NG when it is tailored for their specific trade.
Let's cut this simple since we are both grown-ups, no needs for tit tat fight. Since you are talking about trade, some talks on productivity won't hurt (not all law students do business).

The manufacturer won't make change to a product if the change is unnecessary. Perhaps each change needs a lot of manpower and cost to perform. NG doesn't have either. Also, NG contents are half give-away (I'm not talking about user-generated contents). NG survives up to date by the supports of advertisement and user-bought contents. But those gains get eaten up quickly by the cost of maintenance and running all the systems. Plus the admins need to feed themselves too.

Pinning thread up the wall is an unnecessary change. I think most people see this pretty clear. You can wish for this and that, but in the end you know things can't be changed they are not important to the survival of the product.

If we want to nitpick here on what makes necessary or unnecessary changes, NG could've stayed the way it was several years ago for many respects, including layout, genres and a few other minor changes, but they were done anyway. No need to be pedantic. Changes are made where it is seen fit, and I don't think that you or I are in the place to decide what makes a necessary or unnecessary change, bearing in mind all that you've said. We've mentioned all that we have; all we can do now is ask graciously and leave it at that.

Besides, if it were an unnecessary change then why has there been quite a bit of input on this already besides your comments and mine?


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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-05 11:21:18 Reply

Okay everyone, before this gets locked out of your continued argument...

Let's identify the reasons why this thread should and shouldn't be pinned and/or adapted to the rules of this section...

Should:
1. It provides information that is pertinent to anyone creating a thread looking for music that will help them decide what is best.
2. It helps cut back on the "Hi I'm 12 and what is this?" factor of people requesting music.
3. It generates a set level of what is acceptable for an audio request.
4. We've been waiting for someone to say this for years.

Shouldn't:
1. It is harsh and reprimanding in tone, and too terse at points to be of use.
2. The audience who would actually read the rules and/or pinned thread before posting probably is smart enough to think about it anyway.
3. Pinning isn't a possible feature on the site... the admins would have to add it JUST for this one little thread, which seems to be a bit too much.
4. The content of this thread can be expressed elsewhere with better word choices and more content that is more suitable and will be more visible, such as on its own website or the like.

So what should be done?
I feel it is best that we take the ideas of this thread and put them somewhere safe, probably off Newgrounds but still very accessible- a website or tutorial somewhere... I could even host it if needed. I think a lot more could be said in this that would be more helpful, so working with a number of veteran game/film scorers around the site to add to it would be a good idea.

However, I would like to say once again- the perpetrators of the issue, those who post poor requests, will probably not benefit no matter what you do. They are too rushed by the ecstasy of creation to bother learning to "do it right". Those who are mature enough to learn to do it right would be turned off by a post like this. Whatever is added to the rules, or pinned, or uploaded somewhere for all the world to see MUST be professional, well-written, and even-minded. It cannot be a rant like this. This was a great rallying speech, but would to little to solve the issue. I suggest, as I said above, that someone starts collaborating on this and gets some thoughts together from multiple people.


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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-06 02:26:41 Reply

vittu perkele... Samulis, don't worry, if a mod even locks this place for our little civilized discussion, then what's left for NG democracy?

At 5/5/13 10:14 AM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: I only stand up for him because the spirit of what he is doing is right. Don't take this the wrong way: I got angered, because your comment of 'do you think you're special or this thread is special' is unwarranted at best. I also want to address: this thread of requesting for musicians? There may have been earlier ones, but this is the first that I've ever actively seen and participated in. As they say, better late than never. In fact, I was on the track of asking for this gently, asking feedback, asking what could be improved, until I started seeing unwarranted comments over here. It's immaterial whether I do it now or whether I've done it three years ago.

Look, I find this is pretty weird you get triggered from my comment. In fact I find things were pretty weird when you angered at people who made similar comments like mine. I'm sorry, I don't like to understand your feeling because you get triggered, I'm straight like this in a proper debate.

You 'feel' this thread is special, fine, but you never need to go bombastic on whoever has different views on the thread. If you feel like you don't want to know or see our straight comments, please, ignore ours. As for your protective attitude on 'what's right', don't bother showing off your feeling, please, I don't want ad hominem as your arguments.

Your friend's thread is special because you feel so, even you know there were threads like this. Do you practice favoristism by any chance?

If we want to nitpick here on what makes necessary or unnecessary changes, NG could've stayed the way it was several years ago for many respects, including layout, genres and a few other minor changes, but they were done anyway. No need to be pedantic. Changes are made where it is seen fit, and I don't think that you or I are in the place to decide what makes a necessary or unnecessary change, bearing in mind all that you've said. We've mentioned all that we have; all we can do now is ask graciously and leave it at that.

I think you don't really get it. The 2 big redesigns which have happened has quite little work to do with the fate of AP. AP, at least was almost scrapped once before the redesigns. Granted, AP survived because users urged the admins to keep it. But back to square one, productivity. More people support something then it may change. I say may, because a lot of time, manufacturer don't get to choose what to change based on majority of decisions. From the italic line goes on, they help your argument:

My first post that has questions on why this thread is so special, there are many more questions that stand out more than the one that you have strong angers on (lulz). I have mentioned that other forums have requested the same thread pinning thing (in a form of question). Why not, unite people from other forums to ask Tom/Wade Fulp for similar view on this? Since we all asking for thread pinning, why not works together and make it happens? Instead of pinning only and only your favorite thread(s)?

I made the points, it's up to you for the decisions. Our little discussion has turned my point of view away from the main view. I did not derail the thread, you see. It only started when you seeded your angers on mine.

Besides, if it were an unnecessary change then why has there been quite a bit of input on this already besides your comments and mine?

I made points above on the 3rd paragraph, returns to square one (my first post). Also, we argue has little to do with the content of the thread. Perhaps you do, but I argue on the context of it, and a small humble view on how people handle the discussion.

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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-06 03:34:17 Reply

Ok, you know what... I had already come in here to say, as much as I appreciate the thought behind the thread, we can not pin it... Not will not, CAN NOT.

Arguing about it is completely pointless. If you want threads to be able to be pinned... take your suggestions directly to the Admins, instead of derailing a thread that actually has some useful information in it.

I'm not locking this yet, as I have faint hope that civil discussion can continue... but there will be no more arguing about pinning.


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Response to How To Request a Musician 2013-05-06 09:49:11 Reply

At 5/5/13 11:21 AM, samulis wrote: Let's identify the reasons why this thread should and shouldn't be pinned and/or adapted to the rules of this section...

Should:

Shouldn't:

So what should be done?

Objective, and examines more than just one aspect of the discussion. This here is all that needs to be said, really.

I suppose we can just link this (or similar threads/websites/articles) to the people who users think could benefit from the content of this thread when a new request is made.
The sooner the linking the better, so that the OP can quickly adjust their needs and post them again still near the top of their thread. At this point that's all I can think of, really.


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