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Cabbster
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Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-17 23:49:40

This just in, the same old influx of largely uninspired, generic sounds. Seems like everyone is satisfied with producing as many songs as they can using default presets on default vsts along with default samples and no effort with transition. Kills me that people don't even have the courtesy to at least fix their default sounds by equalizing it at least a little so the 16000 hz isn't consistent throughout the entire thing. And to top it all off, they all get good reviews?!? Not to mention most songs aren't thought out enough to even be longer than 2:00. The ones that are, are usually ambient. And the tracks that are demos or previews are exactly like the generic ones, except they added an oscillation/put soundgoodzer in the mixer.

K so we all know the really well made tracks by big names. So why make things so obviously lacking, and publish it on NG? I feel like its abusing a powerful tool this website has to allow endless bandwidth taken up by songs that absorbs the idea of good quality and shits all over it.

I say if your going to make something, don't fucking publish it, state in your comments you know it's messed up, and ask for feedback. That's so damn redundant and useless that it hurts my nipples. FINISH your song, be proud of the work you put into it, and know you're providing ACTUAL content for people to indulge in. YOU'RE supposed to do the work, NOT the reviewers. Ok? Let us just listen to the damn thing.

Obviously this rant can be offensive or whatever but I really feel its needed. I wanna be able to browse and know I can just browse the AP and not worry about ear rape 50% of the time, or 1 minute loops where I spend more time clicking that track and going back than actually listening to anything.

Wish I could blam

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Troisnyx
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-17 23:55:55

Part of it, I must say, goes back to the quality of the scouting. What material are we allowing to pass on NG when we hit the Scout button?

That having been said: I started off a lot of my own work with default presets and constant dynamic levels (no, seriously, just take a look at my 2011 work) -- but at least I had the melodies, chords and musical forms to make them reasonably solid. Are you going to hate on people who submit things like these too, then, Cabbster?

I agree though: submitting to NG is about initiative. Only when we are certain that we've done our best, even if it's lacklustre compared to what it can become, we submit. That, however, is going to open the floodgates. The next thing I can imagine is a horde of people trying to define in subjective terms what initiative is -- and you and I won't be able to help it, because everyone here has different skill levels.

Anyone here have any ideas on how to address the initiative issue?


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ZipZipper
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 00:12:27

At 4/17/13 11:55 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Anyone here have any ideas on how to address the initiative issue?

I dunno if I understand what you're talking about. How do we make sure everyone submits only when they know they've done their best or how do we stop people from taking the initiative so often or...how can everyone be on the same wavelength of what they should submit...I don't understand...


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Troisnyx
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 00:16:49

At 4/18/13 12:12 AM, ZipZipper wrote:
At 4/17/13 11:55 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Anyone here have any ideas on how to address the initiative issue?
I dunno if I understand what you're talking about. How do we make sure everyone submits only when they know they've done their best or how do we stop people from taking the initiative so often or...how can everyone be on the same wavelength of what they should submit...I don't understand...

Cabbster was saying that those who weren't trying should refrain from submitting to the AP. But how are we going to define "trying" when there are people with so many different skill levels, many of whom are eager to share their work with the rest of us?


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Cabbster
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 00:38:44

At 4/17/13 11:55 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: That having been said: I started off a lot of my own work with default presets and constant dynamic levels (no, seriously, just take a look at my 2011 work) -- but at least I had the melodies, chords and musical forms to make them reasonably solid. Are you going to hate on people who submit things like these too, then, Cabbster?

My point is:
a track that is an anomaly of creativity and substance creates aspiration. So if we have everyone posting their first song..or art.. Or whatever.. Constantly.. That'll breed aspirations for other artists. Being comfortable posting only mediocrity over and over again has undeniably become accepted by the community. I'm just saying, we need something to aspire to, and if artists are being asked to be spoonfed praise about their thousandth WIP, then the real praise for a real song that deserves it won't make the legitimate praise worthy. False feedback is so damn prevalent, you know?

I usually get 0 bombed, but I don't know if that's the song or just haters. There's time where I get extremely low stars, but the reviews are phenomenal. Does that make any sense?

you and I won't be able to help it, because everyone here has different skill levels.

I totally agree, and encourage new artists to come out and play.. But honesty goes a long way if you want them to be a real musician. I've heard excellent stuff from the noobs. The lines are just really blurry when it comes to who is new and who isn't for a while now.

Anyone here have any ideas on how to address the initiative issue?

derail'd by first post. Have the reviewers tolerate less crap. In turn artists with no initiative will get low scores and reviews, giving them some initiative


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HalcyonicFalconX
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 00:47:18

At 4/17/13 11:49 PM, Cabbster wrote: Obviously this rant can be offensive or whatever but I really feel its needed. I wanna be able to browse and know I can just browse the AP and not worry about ear rape 50% of the time, or 1 minute loops where I spend more time clicking that track and going back than actually listening to anything.

I highly disagree with that sentiment. There are a lot of us, myself included, who start off not knowing what we're doing. We're just very eager and very inspired by other artists and trying to get into it ourselves. Yes, those tracks are certainly sometimes not very pleasant to listen to, but I think you should try giving the constructive feedback on how to improve.

And most certainly NOT this:

Wish I could blam

It's this sentiment that discourages a lot of people from developing their skills. Yes, we shouldn't tell people their music is great if it really isn't, but at the same time flagrant blamming is what kills the joy that a lot of starting artists use to fuel their want to learn more and improve. Tell people that their stuff sucks and blamming them will stunt their growth.

I'm a huge proponent of the amateurs who want to get good at what they want to do. Both Matt and I started off with kinda shitty stuff. And now look where we are. You never know what unlocked potential a person has, so it's best not to stunt their growth by killing their joy and motivation.

ZStriefel
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 00:50:53

At 4/17/13 11:49 PM, Cabbster wrote:
it hurts my nipples.

Wish I could blam

I get what you're saying, and that's cool if you don't like the bulk of submissions.. But I think people put a little too much stock in the sanctity of the audio portal. Sure, the original idea was to have a place where aspiring animators and game devs could get music for their projects without violating copyright (which is great for both them and newgrounds). But it's evolved into more than that. There's a community of musicians who are using the AP as more than a place to showcase their music, it's also a place of learning. Getting feedback is vital. How do you expect the people whom you've be speaking of to grow if they have no place to showcase their works in progress, or maybe what THEY feel is their best.

Should they just keep their stuff unpublished and never submit? I think a lot of people do that already. Now I actually don't know too much about the new AP since the remodel, so I may be incorrect.. But if you upload something and don't publish, isn't it only viewable via direct link? I suppose people could make use of the WIP thread here in the forums.. But lets face it. 70% or more of new posters here in the AP forums are quickly intimidated and scared away. They're not going to keep posting.

I guess what I'm saying is, while I understand where you're coming from.. I think it's a shame to ostracize newcomers and beginners for only trying to get themselves heard. We were all "that guy/gal" at some point. So cut em' some slack :)

At 4/17/13 11:55 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Part of it, I must say, goes back to the quality of the scouting. What material are we allowing to pass on NG when we hit the Scout button?

Like I said in my reply to the OP.. I think people are taking this way too seriously. Don't scout people who are violating rules obviously.. But if someone posts something that is in line with the rules, who am I or anyone else to say "nope. not good enough" in NEWGROUNDS. Don't forget what newgrounds is all about, and why I love it so much.. This is a place where ANYONE can submit content and be heard. If it sounds like shit, so be it. It'll get zero votes anyway, and if it does well and that pisses you off.. well, that's a personal problem. If people like it, they like it. I think Black Eyed Peas suck, but I wouldn't bash people for liking them or make claims that they're not worthy of the radio etc. (i know that compassion is ridiculous but thats kind of the point.)

Cabbster was saying that those who weren't trying should refrain from submitting to the AP. But how are we going to define "trying" when there are people with so many different skill levels, many of whom are eager to share their work with the rest of us?

^ dat. Exactly. What sounds good and what sounds like shit is subjective. Instead of hating someone for submitting something subpar (or your definition of), give em pointers. Be good to your fellow NGers :)

Back-From-Purgatory
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 00:56:17

I'm nearing 500 fans and I still have no idea what I'm doing most of the time... I just roll my face on the keyboard a few times for each instrument then hit Export to MP3 to share with all my bestest of friendies here on the New Grounds.


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Neon-Bard
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 01:13:33

You never know what unlocked potential a person has, so it's best not to stunt their growth by killing their joy and motivation.

This sums it all up.

I can see what you mean if a user doesn't show any appreciation for their own music though Cabbster, that can be quite intolerable at times. However, as pointed out, it is important to nurture other artists in a mature, authentic way. By doing so, you're encouraging positive growth! Essentially...give love, get love.

Now I know that not every song out there is fantastic or awe-inspiring...but hey, if life (or Newgrounds) was like that, it would be a pretty dull place right? You can't have the 'Yin' without the 'Yang' (yes...I realize this is all very 'hippie' of me, I apologize for that). Everyone has to start somewhere though, even if that very beginning is rough and sounds like something from out of a bog.

Anyway, that's my two cents. :)


If you have a moment, check out some of my work:
[Music here on Newgrounds] [Soundcloud]

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frootza
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 01:35:50

Cabbster, it seems like your concern stems from hearing artist's music who haven't developed their production skills yet. Not everyone wants to learn that when they start writing music.

Listeners can appreciate a piece based on it's own musical integrity without taking into consideration whether or not everything was EQ'd and compressed properly.

As Striefel said, a huge part of the AP is about getting feedback on the songs you post. If I'm right here, the original version is always accessible, but when you make minor changes you can update the track as many times you'd like.

Look at how much some of the artists here have grown since they started on the forums. They grow because people comment on their music, and they can learn from these critiques whether they be positive or negative.


Check it! :) //// Never stop making music. Play MOTORJOUST!!!Check it! :)

midimachine
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 02:49:54

At 4/18/13 01:13 AM, Neon-Bard wrote: You never know what unlocked potential a person has, so it's best not to stunt their growth by killing their joy and motivation.

bullshit, if someone stops making music because of some bad reviews then their potential is right there. if criticism (of any kind) is stunting someone's growth as an artist then they need to stop publicly releasing their music until they've improved, stop giving a fuck, or stop making music altogether.

i don't think we should stop people from posting their shitty music altogether, but if it is shitty then you should tell them why and maybe tell them how to fix it if you're feeling generous. although i stopped reviewing things i didn't like eventually because people would just get self-righteous and call me an asshole for giving constructive criticism :v


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HalcyonicFalconX
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 02:52:21

At 4/18/13 02:49 AM, midimachine wrote:
At 4/18/13 01:13 AM, Neon-Bard wrote: You never know what unlocked potential a person has, so it's best not to stunt their growth by killing their joy and motivation.
bullshit, if someone stops making music because of some bad reviews then their potential is right there. if criticism (of any kind) is stunting someone's growth as an artist then they need to stop publicly releasing their music until they've improved, stop giving a fuck, or stop making music altogether.

Constructive criticism is fine, be it bad or good. Trolling and blamming aren't. That was what I was referring to.

midimachine
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 03:00:38

At 4/18/13 02:52 AM, HalcyonicFalconX wrote: Constructive criticism is fine, be it bad or good. Trolling and blamming aren't. That was what I was referring to.

of course, but if you were to quit making music because someone trolled you then your heart really wasn't in it.

i mean it doesn't even make sense to be so distressed by a bunch of comments that you're like "nup fuck it, i can't do this ever again". even if it went viral somehow and a million people laughed at your expense, if you really wanted it you would keep going.

honestly, i think it's counter-productive to start uploading stuff publicly as soon as your learn to make music. like, you'd be more likely to start worrying about stats and plays and comments and stupid shit like that instead of concentrating on improving than if you just never bothered with this internet business in the first place haha


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alternativesolution
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 03:06:39

At 4/18/13 03:00 AM, midimachine wrote: honestly, i think it's counter-productive to start uploading stuff publicly as soon as your learn to make music. like, you'd be more likely to start worrying about stats and plays and comments and stupid shit like that instead of concentrating on improving than if you just never bothered with this internet business in the first place haha

It depends on the person, who worries about those types of things...but really, I don't think it's necessarily counter-productive ...more like just, productive.
I started making stuff way before I actually started posting it, so I had the luxury of not sounding completely shitty right off the bat, but I think I could have gained more criticism and advice earlier on if I'd posted it then.
I was eager to receive feedback since I was new at stuff, to see how I was doing, and I'm glad that some people were kind enough back in the day to give their constructive input..


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midimachine
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 03:19:38

At 4/18/13 03:06 AM, alternativesolution wrote: It depends on the person, who worries about those types of things...

yeah i suppose! but i mean, i just wouldn't recommend it at all haha. it's always better to have someone you know in person, or if you don't have that luxury then even a few tutorials and some reference material to A -> B against, than to be at the mercy of the internet.

I was eager to receive feedback since I was new at stuff, to see how I was doing, and I'm glad that some people were kind enough back in the day to give their constructive input..

yeah, for the longest time i was definitely one of the people who just uploaded shitty music ASAP and had no sense of quality control. some people were unnecessarily kind, most were totally not haha. but i was just really determined to make music mainly for myself so all the crits kinda just went in one ear and out the other.

and that was the other thing i wanted to say but forgot, and it's kind of a flipside to my first point: we can gently criticise or even berate people all we want, but there's a significant portion who won't take any notice. because they don't understand, or they don't care, or they're just too busy enjoying themselves.


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Troisnyx
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 04:58:13

At 4/18/13 03:19 AM, midimachine wrote:
At 4/18/13 03:06 AM, alternativesolution wrote: It depends on the person, who worries about those types of things...
yeah i suppose! but i mean, i just wouldn't recommend it at all haha. it's always better to have someone you know in person, or if you don't have that luxury then even a few tutorials and some reference material to A -> B against, than to be at the mercy of the internet.

Might I add that I was indeed at the mercy of the internet until last year when I participated in the NGADM. I didn't even know whether all that mixing was right, and I still don't (to a degree). The way I see it, is in this sequence:

A) submit songs with awful mixing but with strong musicality, because that's where I attract the listener, and that was what I knew at the time, B) rely on reviews from some listeners, some who grew to stay with me for a while (the first of these was Sorohanro), C) if there are any pointers I need, I ask via PM or the replies in the review.

Do I know anyone in person within a five-mile radius who can help me? I know of one who could have, but he's no longer living near me, so it'd be just as useful as contacting someone I know on NG via the net.

and that was the other thing i wanted to say but forgot, and it's kind of a flipside to my first point: we can gently criticise or even berate people all we want, but there's a significant portion who won't take any notice. because they don't understand, or they don't care, or they're just too busy enjoying themselves.

Does that mean we should stop reviewing and/or supporting the newer artists? ABSOLUTELY NOT! It's far better for our advice to be unheard than for us to withhold advice altogether. If our advice is unheard, then it's not that we're being a bunch of jerks, the artists are not doing anything for themselves. If we withhold the advice and pointers, if we refuse to point out any strengths, we're only making fools of ourselves, considering how friendly and everything the community's been.


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midimachine
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 09:00:04

At 4/18/13 04:58 AM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Do I know anyone in person within a five-mile radius who can help me? I know of one who could have, but he's no longer living near me, so it'd be just as useful as contacting someone I know on NG via the net.

internet people are cool too, but i would get a really helpful review from a complete random maybe once or twice a year when i was posting stuff here frequently. it's completely different having a circle of peers or being a forum regular. all i'm saying is that i wouldn't recommend people who've just started writing, producing or even just thinking about music to upload their work to the internet for everyone everywhere to see. even if you've had strong musicality in spite of weak mixing right from the get go, most people don't.

if nothing else, it's a favour to the listeners :P

Does that mean we should stop reviewing and/or supporting the newer artists? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

that's what i was saying though, i was just being the devil's advocate for my own argument

If we withhold the advice and pointers, if we refuse to point out any strengths, we're only making fools of ourselves

i don't think i'm a fool for not reviewing stuff i don't like. unless someone i already know or recognise asks me personally i simply don't have the mental energy to write anything helpful anymore :v


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Troisnyx
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 09:11:40

At 4/18/13 09:00 AM, midimachine wrote:
If we withhold the advice and pointers, if we refuse to point out any strengths, we're only making fools of ourselves
i don't think i'm a fool for not reviewing stuff i don't like. unless someone i already know or recognise asks me personally i simply don't have the mental energy to write anything helpful anymore :v

Depends on how compelled we are: I was generalising, rather than simply talking about stuff we don't like. It'd be really, really sad if we were to just give up on the reviewing tendencies for the sole fact that we have to sift through tons of new submissions.

There are, for example, (and I'll put them down in categories) --
1) those submissions that we can't review because they're either so good or so bad that we just can't say anything.
2) those submissions that have the potential to be good but are wanting a little, or severely wanting, that we HAVE to say something about it, either by being constructive or by being harsher than normal.
3) those submissions that are a joy to listen to and stick out to us for one reason or another. Maybe the instrumentation, maybe the mixing, maybe a melody line or a riff or the vocal quality.
4) those submissions which give you a visual picture that you perhaps want to share with the composer.

At least those are the categories of works I've found across the board, whether it be from regs, old members, newer ones or even those which've been recently scouted.


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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 09:54:23

I have a rather nuanced opinion on all of this... I agree with HalcyonicFalcon/Phyrnna in that we all started somewhere. I remember the first review I got on the first piece of trash I put up here when I was so excited I made notes come out of my computer speaker all on my own. It was constructive, critical, and definitely pushed me in the right direction. If someone wasn't there to do that for me, I probably would either have given up or would be still writing garbage. People who just begin really REALLY need to be given constructive critique and a big helping hand- tutorials, resources, even a friend or two on skype who can give them feedback and point them in the right directions so they can best achieve their own sound and style and find their inner self easiest.

However, I do feel that there is a need for people to put their BEST work as they evolve up. I don't put every single WIP and concept and rough cut... I put finished, well-rounded pieces up, or finished game loops that I feel are worthy of use and useable by developers, and I always have. Those first pieces I put up were my best and my greatest, some of them I even thought could be used in games (and some actually were, suprsingly). Sadly, I know a ton of people who just consistently throw pieces far below their ability and lacking effort on the portal just because they can. Things like the two-a-day limit and scouting system are CLEARLY INTENDED to stop those people, but nothing really works aside from educating people in the need to really showcase themselves.

A lot of kids don't realize that the internet is their showcase. They have one shot under their chosen username to please or displease the entire world. If you mess that up, you may be waiting years until people start liking you. Many people also find trolling the audio portal by putting up false or poor pieces entertaining.

HFX- I do not think the OP's target is people who CAN'T write good music, but rather people who WON'T write to their ability and prefer to dwell well in the bounds of sub-mediocracy, refuse to reach out for help, refuse to try new things, and worst of all, refuse to take constructive critique in stride. These people continually do nothing but spam the portal and continually are allowed and accepted as 'artists' when all they do is detract from the very meaning of the word 'art'. Art is about expression and finding new ways of expression. There is nothing artistic about ignorance, hence the need for constructive critique mentioned above. I try to give critique to these people. Most of them, being trolls at heart, just laugh it off.


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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 10:17:21

The two-songs-a-day limit is long gone, by the way.

midimachine
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 11:24:04

At 4/18/13 10:17 AM, Buoy wrote: The two-songs-a-day limit is long gone, by the way.

well, shit


p.s. i am gay

SuperBastard
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 11:24:57

At 4/18/13 02:49 AM, midimachine wrote: if someone stops making music because of some bad reviews then their potential is right there.

No way man, maybe you can keep yourself insulated from the opinions of others, but not everyone is able to do that. There could just as easily be someone who thoroughly enjoys making music and be met with an overly harsh reaction that makes them think "gee, I really like doing this, but if I'm that bad at it maybe learning to improve is just a waste of time." I understand where you're coming from with the angle of "I make my music for myself," but people can still be so overwhelmingly discouraged by negativity that they can just be convinced on the spot that music isn't for them, regardless of how much they enjoy doing it.

Egos can be fragile.


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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 13:39:24

At 4/18/13 11:24 AM, SuperBastard wrote:
At 4/18/13 02:49 AM, midimachine wrote: if someone stops making music because of some bad reviews then their potential is right there.
No way man, maybe you can keep yourself insulated from the opinions of others, but not everyone is able to do that. There could just as easily be someone who thoroughly enjoys making music and be met with an overly harsh reaction that makes them think "gee, I really like doing this, but if I'm that bad at it maybe learning to improve is just a waste of time." I understand where you're coming from with the angle of "I make my music for myself," but people can still be so overwhelmingly discouraged by negativity that they can just be convinced on the spot that music isn't for them, regardless of how much they enjoy doing it.

Egos can be fragile.

That's the point he was trying to get across. If someone gets discouraged by a couple of bad reviews (see bad review and not troll review) and thinks music isn't for them then they don't have the will to continue making music. You can't expect to release a song for the first time and not receive any criticism on it (unless you have one hell of a big ego). If you decide to learn from it good for you, if not, too bad.

SuperBastard
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 15:03:37

At 4/18/13 01:39 PM, Braiton wrote:
At 4/18/13 11:24 AM, SuperBastard wrote:
At 4/18/13 02:49 AM, midimachine wrote: if someone stops making music because of some bad reviews then their potential is right there.
No way man, maybe you can keep yourself insulated from the opinions of others, but not everyone is able to do that. There could just as easily be someone who thoroughly enjoys making music and be met with an overly harsh reaction that makes them think "gee, I really like doing this, but if I'm that bad at it maybe learning to improve is just a waste of time." I understand where you're coming from with the angle of "I make my music for myself," but people can still be so overwhelmingly discouraged by negativity that they can just be convinced on the spot that music isn't for them, regardless of how much they enjoy doing it.

Egos can be fragile.
That's the point he was trying to get across. If someone gets discouraged by a couple of bad reviews (see bad review and not troll review) and thinks music isn't for them then they don't have the will to continue making music. You can't expect to release a song for the first time and not receive any criticism on it (unless you have one hell of a big ego). If you decide to learn from it good for you, if not, too bad.

Oh, I misinterpreted him, I meant really unhelpful stuff like if your audio submission could just be outright blammed, or you get a couple reviews that say "lol this sux kill urself." I wasn't talking about people who go "HE SAID MY MASTERING NEEDS WORK AND I SHOULDN'T USE DEFAULT DRUM SAMPLES, I'M NEVER GOING TO MAKE MUSIC AGAIN!" because clearly those people aren't the ones who enjoy making music and were just in it to try and impress someone.


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MetalRenard
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 15:19:33

I'm reading through this and all I see is intolerance. :/
Sure, there's a shit load of bad music out there but apart from forcing people to sift through it, it doesn't affect you at all. Scared of ear-rape? Listen at lower levels! Protect your ears by taking preventative steps rather than reacting with this kind of post.

People need to be encouraged. Those of us with the knowledge, experience and will to succeed need to help the "little guys". Art should be within everyone's reach as a way to express themselves. You and I have no right to stop someone using music as a way to explore one's inner self no matter how bad we think it is. At the end of the day, if this affects you then you're the one with the issues.


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eatmeatleet
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 16:22:36

I would actually expect much bigger number of unfinished/noobish tracks on the AP.
A lot of the time random latest tracks sound semi-decent.. And those short clips do often have a nice idea about it.
I think that the quality of the AP has been going up in general


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ZipZipper
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 17:37:53

At 4/18/13 12:16 AM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
At 4/18/13 12:12 AM, ZipZipper wrote:
At 4/17/13 11:55 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Anyone here have any ideas on how to address the initiative issue?
I dunno if I understand what you're talking about.
Cabbster was saying that those who weren't trying should refrain from submitting to the AP. But how are we going to define "trying" when there are people with so many different skill levels, many of whom are eager to share their work with the rest of us?

(wow is this a late response?) I guess that would be up to the listener to decide whether a musician sounded like they were putting effort or not. It really is undefinable. I mean, a musician could put in barely any effort but still get the masses to eat it up, which I guess is a matter of skill...

Also, I'm agreeing at the end of the day we need encouragement and feedback, not blatant disapproval and bashing, unless the user deserves it by being a stubborn asshole about it.


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Troisnyx
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 18:04:07

At 4/18/13 05:37 PM, ZipZipper wrote: (wow is this a late response?) I guess that would be up to the listener to decide whether a musician sounded like they were putting effort or not. It really is undefinable. I mean, a musician could put in barely any effort but still get the masses to eat it up, which I guess is a matter of skill...

Also, I'm agreeing at the end of the day we need encouragement and feedback, not blatant disapproval and bashing, unless the user deserves it by being a stubborn asshole about it.

Heh heh, we know what happens to the user who behaves like a complete donkey about it: off he goes to the block list, or if push comes to shove with the audio quality: unscout!


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midimachine
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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-18 19:49:59

At 4/18/13 03:19 PM, MetalRenard wrote: You and I have no right to stop someone using music as a way to explore one's inner self no matter how bad we think it is.

yeah, but short of physically locking them in an empty room we can't do anything to stop them.
what i'm saying is that if someone quits making music it's a choice they make themselves. people think it's some great tragedy when someone who's too precious for their own good throws in the towel because people didn't like their first fruityloopz beat. it's just not a big deal to me.

as for being intolerant of shitty music, well yeah obviously i am. i'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to upload at all, i'm just saying they should choose not to at first, for our sake and theirs.


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Response to Latest news in the audio portal 2013-04-20 15:14:20

That is Newgrounds. Why improve yourself when you can make terrible sounding shit and people will love it. There are like maybe 1 or 2 artist here that are on a pro level. They Know who They Are.


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