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What is the stylistic difference

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Malifex
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What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 03:32 AM Reply

between dance, trance, techno, and house?

In terms of things like structure, overall sound, etc.

Confused X_X

It doesn't really help that apparently there's a ton of different kinds of trance alone

midimachine
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 04:09 AM Reply

check out ishkur's guide to electronic music. it's quite old (going on ten years nearly), but despite his cynical approach he does a pretty good job explaining the differences in styles.


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midimachine
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 04:12 AM Reply

oh and it has audio examples. when you first see terms "hard trance" and "acid trance" next to each other it's kinda like "wtf is the difference" but if you can then do an A->B comparison of the two it sorta makes more sense!


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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 05:18 AM Reply

Wow. That's kind of ridiculous.
In rock/metal we only change the name of the genre when you completely change your approach to the sound, instruments used and vocals. It seems you have a name for every type of emotion in electronic music and call it a genre. lol


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The-iMortal
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 06:18 AM Reply

I have been producing EDM for over 2 years, and still can't distinguish most genres/sub-genres.

Do I care?

Nope.

Does anyone care if I can differentiate genres?

Nope.

Is this a good answer to the question?

Nope.

Is there a point to my post?

Nope.

Is this post a worthwhile contribution?

Nope.

Should I keep doing this?

Nope.

But will I anyway?

Nope.

...or will I?
...nope.
midimachine
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 07:40 AM Reply

At 3/14/13 05:18 AM, MetalRenard wrote: In rock/metal we only change the name of the genre when you completely change your approach to the sound, instruments used and vocals.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha


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Lachi
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 11:07 AM Reply

I know for personal experience that it's impossible make a genre division.
I totally prefer a division based on period, years and "style", not to be confused with genre.

EDM is the big global genre. After that, I think every song is a different song.

Who the hell cares anyway for genres, just make it trance or techno, since noobs today think everything electronic is techno (oh, it's not. real techno used to be good music, like acid house or the first rave songs in the free parties).

i repeat: don't care about genres, this is totally pointless


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midimachine
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 11:21 AM Reply

At 3/14/13 11:07 AM, Lachi wrote: i repeat: don't care about genres, this is totally pointless

nah this is a silly thing to say. how do you look for music that follows a certain style without referring to genre classification? i might want to listen to "EDM" that sounds like house, but not "EDM" that sounds like dubstep.


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Lachi
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 11:31 AM Reply

At 3/14/13 11:21 AM, midimachine wrote:
At 3/14/13 11:07 AM, Lachi wrote: i repeat: don't care about genres, this is totally pointless
nah this is a silly thing to say. how do you look for music that follows a certain style without referring to genre classification? i might want to listen to "EDM" that sounds like house, but not "EDM" that sounds like dubstep.

yeah but the deeper you go, the more complex things you have.
i know songs (especially amateur ones, like dj splash or boosterz, but there are milion of examples) that are a mix between commercial trance and hands up, eurotrance and eurodance (pay attention: they're different, lol), etc. Then we have the old school with acid, old house (not the modern house), progressive dream dance and progressive dream trance, and some others are totally inclassificable due to their nature: dark minimal intelligent dance music?

it all depends on how deep you want and can go, i gave up on making genres after years of try


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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 11:35 AM Reply

At 3/14/13 07:40 AM, midimachine wrote:
At 3/14/13 05:18 AM, MetalRenard wrote: In rock/metal we only change the name of the genre when you completely change your approach to the sound, instruments used and vocals.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahhahahhahhahahahahahaaaaaa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rock_genres
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_subgenres

Lachi
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 11:38 AM Reply

At 3/14/13 11:35 AM, Buoy wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rock_genres
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_subgenres

if you ask me: this is quite ridicolous, look at that list.
bah


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Lich
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 14th, 2013 @ 04:18 PM Reply

The more tracks you listen to in a specified genre/sub-genre, the more you will notice the same subtle structure and/or the design of the sounds that are used within that sub-genre. Honestly, I do approve of new sub-genre's being created to categorise and identify music (unless there is no difference at all between the parent and it's sibling sub-genre which can be universally agreed on by the music community).

For those who believe that everything should be classed under 'one main genre' would you really sit there with several friends and say that any of these can be classed under the same genre? This, This and This for example. Same applies for Metal and any other genre with very diverse sub-genre's, there is not a way in hell that someone would class Kamelot and Skinless under the same genre for example, they are two completely different forms of metal and nearly everyone can sit down and agree on so.


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Chemich
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 02:02 PM Reply

At 3/14/13 11:21 AM, midimachine wrote:
At 3/14/13 11:07 AM, Lachi wrote: i repeat: don't care about genres, this is totally pointless
nah this is a silly thing to say. how do you look for music that follows a certain style without referring to genre classification? i might want to listen to "EDM" that sounds like house, but not "EDM" that sounds like dubstep.

Going to agree with midimachine here, and it also annoys me when I have a "Genre" classification in my description and it's like the description was JUST a new feature put out today.

As for me I think they're important, especially with this point at hand.

Saying "I love EDM;" means in general you love all EDM, including dubstep. What if you don't like dubstep, do you say you also don't like EDM?

Hell, even EDM is a technical genre, though in it's definition it's more of a category. What good is a category if you can't organize the different types of things inside? Without organization it's just a big mess of ideas that may confuse people even more. Genre's are there for a reason people, they always have been. If you don't like them then that's fine. But they're always going to be there, either get with it or stay in the dark.

They're used to define a specific type of sound within a category, whether you disagree with it or not will never cease it's existence.

Same with movies, same with TV programs, etc, etc...

They're there so in definition you can use them to find more of what you want to hear / watch, they're not there to annoy or confuse you. Personally I don't see what's so confusing about organized classifications, I thought we were all taught how to differentiate the difference between such in elementary school?


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Lachi
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 02:18 PM Reply

Ok so if you're so good, please, categorize my last song, since I can't (don't say trance omg).
not advertising, just letting you know that it's impossible unless you say a mix between 2-3 genres


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Chemich
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 02:34 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 02:18 PM, Lachi wrote: Ok so if you're so good, please, categorize my last song, since I can't (don't say trance omg).
not advertising, just letting you know that it's impossible unless you say a mix between 2-3 genres

Did I say I was good? No.

Did I say I was the best at categorizing anything? No.

This was pretty much an advertisement, and anyways it just sounds like really terrible Psytrance.

I'm saying that genre's and classifications are there and essential for a reason; you didn't even read my post, did you?

Nice job on the shameless plugging shit, next time you do that make sure to have something worth listening to first.


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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 02:40 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 02:18 PM, Lachi wrote: Ok so if you're so good, please, categorize my last song, since I can't (don't say trance omg).
not advertising, just letting you know that it's impossible unless you say a mix between 2-3 genres

Aside from the BPM and drum loop, nothing about that sounds trance to me. Really you have a sound that could be easily interchanged between any basic style structures. You could speed it up a tid bit and make that a jungle track, or slow it down into a tribal house tune or even cut out all the nonsense and make it a down-tempo tune (most fitting realistically). What yu did was carve your own little nitch in the wall. You didn't set out to make a trance track, you sat down and just took different concepts and made something thats more YOU than it is anything else. Doesnt mean its bad by any means, it's just what it is.


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Lachi
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 03:27 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 02:34 PM, Chemich wrote: it just sounds like really terrible Psytrance.

You said a lot of shit but what I need was just this: so is this a psytrance track or none? You would classify it as?
My point is: it's hard to classify it because it's just a mix of genres and concepts as the wise Cross said. Don't be so arrogant kid

to Cross: makes sense what you said, it's a bit like what I meant
:.. carve your own little nitch in the wall. You didn't set out to make a trance track, you sat down and just took different concepts and made something thats more YOU than it is anything else.


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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 03:28 PM Reply

Harlock's Guide to Electronic Music
(Single Track examples of the generic sound and structure to a specific style)

House (the Sub-Genres)

Electro House (old-form) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFICQijbvtk&list=UUtxxJzJvzSe 7gCEkUFX_KnQ&index=18
Listen to that gritty bass. High-energy but in your face, the synths aren't particularly complex but the grit and heavy bass really define this genre. Which is why..

Electro House (new-form) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KKKGpAZHAA
Electro House was subjected to a rebirth as the more socially accepted cousin of current generation dubstep.
Yep, cutting synth and basslines, and presets upon presets that people just use to mimic the same sound again and again.
You can tell who the real artists are, because they don't use Coneblower or Talking Bass in their tracks.

Deep House - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1QUvHXmNck
Much like Disco House where revival or remixing old tracks circa 70s+ is common, but really stands out about deep house is the smooth tone it sets. It's not as up-front like Tech House, or as energy-filled as disco house, the mood is smooth and well.. deep.

Progressive House - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWFDHYnpvX4
Anyone who listens to trance can probably draw a few similarities here, and before you bring it up, this is what progressive house really was before deadmau5 came in and employed his plucked + cutoff synth that everyone mimics. Listen to how the melodies and harmonies drive this track and how the progression goes through. That's the key.

Tech House - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmPmS1CeZCE
Tech House focuses on percussion and tone-setting, similar to Techno in the sense that the tracks are usually driven on drums and atmospheric sound rather than complex melodies and vocals (not always the case but usually).

Tribal House - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmuTZgjro08
Tribal House has a lot of emphasis on precussion use and tends to take aspects of that common latin sound. The distant cousin of Tech House, yet the overall tone of Tribal House tends to be lighter than Tech House.

Minimal House - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asdzexrdvbk
Percussion, Percussion, Percussion. Subtle amounts, usually little to no synth work aside from a stab here and there. The tone you feel from deep house or tech house isn't there, and that's what sets it apart. If Deep House were a fat guy with soul, and Tech House were a muscly guy with lust, than minimal house would be the starving half-brother of both lacking that ambition.

Disco House - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwNmKlczhCs
Disco House is pretty Self explanatory, lots of sampling of old 70's sounds and tracks, incorporates that pretty specific disco sound.

Club House - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci40ae8BlcE
Club house is basically the bastardization of any Sub-Genre of House. Taking key elements (IE the Electro-styled bassline in this particular example) and combining almost 99% of the time vocals (that generic vocal is a pretty key indicatior of Club House)


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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 03:51 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 03:27 PM, Lachi wrote:
At 3/15/13 02:34 PM, Chemich wrote: it just sounds like really terrible Psytrance.
snip

Everything has a mix of genre one way or another, that's how other genre's get made. Old elements made with new ideas, so please stop trolling and work harder on your music if you're going to shamelessly plug them.

Just sounds like a bad attempt at Psytrance, nothing more. If you have a problem with taking criticism then you're going to hate making music all together, sorry if you don't like my opinion. If you really want to create a piece that sounds unique and which the differences of genre will be noted in, then try harder. I'm not going to glorify a turd just because you think it deserves to have diamonds sprinkled all over it.

To me it just sounds like you're trying to plug your own track and glorify it just because you used different "ideas," it'll take a lot more than that to convince me otherwise. Then again when we're talking about beliefs and opinions no one wins but themselves. It's obvious you just baited an argument to plug your music, please stop trying to convince me otherwise. You didn't read my post and didn't understand that I was speaking of generalized ideas, and how things are perceived through DEFINITION. If you had read my original post at all, you would've never even tried baiting the argument.

So obviously, you just tried getting more views on your track. Nice job.


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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 03:53 PM Reply

-- Continued --

Breaks (The Sub-Genre)

Breakbeat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA_OejN5_5Q
For the longest time everyone thought Breakbeat was TECHNO. Basically circa 90's on it was by false claim. Mainstream pop constantly used Breakbeat elements, see for yourself, go back and listen to tracks by awful artists like britney spears or madonna. Anyways, Breakbeat is basically carved the way for different genres to exist by developing that broken drum pattern, where instead of the emphasis on a 4/4 kick, the snare becomes the 4/4 focus point. Listen for it. always on the 5 and 9. In fact 99% of the time any DJ spins any sub-genre of breaks, they mix using the snare not the kick. Thanks breakbeat.

Jungle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obv477QfDI0
(note this is a deeper sounding jungle track than most but a great example..) Jungle paved way for Drum and Bass, but is not the same thing. Jungle has a similar feel to the percussion work that Tribal House has, lots of highs and ever-changing drum patterns. Jungle has several smaller off-springs such as Reggae Jungle, Darkstep, and Jazzstep (personal favorite)
Unlike with modern Drum and Bass, many of these tracks emphasized nothing but pure sampling and processing. For example, to get that unique drum sound, artists would often sample live-drums over their drum patterns and process them accordingly.

Drum and Bass - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkAM7yEpH64
Notice the difference here? Birth the heavy bassline that really makes Drum and Bass what it is. Taking the drum pattern aspect of Jungle and completely focusing on a new form by putting heavy emphasis on the bassline. It really drives the track. If you struggle to differentiate between jungle and drum and bass, compare the previous track to this one and then it'll probably click.

Neurofunk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPtv-wUIISc
Neurofunk, taking a bassline and processing the fuck out of it, yielding the holy-grail of basstones, Neuro Bass.
Basically there's a particular style of bass that came from drum and bass called a reese bass (Taking two distorted saw basses and de-tuning them against each other). It's actually quite difficult to engineer (when you don't copy shitty examples via presets). At any rate, yep that heavy fucking bass is pretty much the emphasis in Neurofunk. Melt your face at high-speeds.

Dubstep (old form) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVpjPuzlvus
Oh dubstep what happened? Anyways, dubstep used to be all about taking more from its dub roots which originated out of reggae back in the 60s, it wasn't always about a face-melting bassline and insanely high-pitch synths blowing your ears out. It was smooth, mood-setting and had substance.

Dubstep (new form) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2fbEt37F4
Pretty self-explanatory. If you're looking at this, you've probably encountered new-form dubstep before. We pretty much have Rusko to thank for ruining the true roots of dubstep, and creating this new generation sound. Heavy basslines, borderline nonsensical progression and break-styled drums. Yep.

Glitch Hop - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpokVJjCRfo
Whilst technically of the Glitch genre, glitch hop is heavily influenced by current generation of break-styled subs than it is of the glitch roots. Slower tempo and more intelligent focus, with less emphasis on trying to fix as much shit through the audible spectrum as possible.


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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 03:55 PM Reply

I'm not going to touch trance because I don't have that much hands on intimacy with it. But that should pretty much cover the essentials.

Oh and someone else can cover techno too, basically it's a faster bpm than House usually and pretty much takes the 4/4 aspect with it and leaves all the house themes behind. Google it for yourself.


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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 04:02 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 03:55 PM, Cross666 wrote: I'm not going to touch trance because I don't have that much hands on intimacy with it. But that should pretty much cover the essentials.

Trance is probably the most controversial genre. Check out these ones

Robert Miles - Children
- dream trance

Giacomo Orlando - Trippologiko
- progressive trance

Cosmic Gate - Tomorrow
- hard trance

ATB - 9 PM
- euro trance

ETC ETC
Would you consider these as "similar songs"?
I wouldn't. Basically there is nothing, really concrete, that says why a song is trance.

Nice guide Cross.


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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 04:05 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 03:51 PM, Chemich wrote: Everything has a mix of genre one way or another, that's how other genre's get made. Old elements made with new ideas, so please stop trolling and work harder on your music if you're going to shamelessly plug them.

Just sounds like a bad attempt at Psytrance, nothing more. If you have a problem with taking criticism then you're going to hate making music all together, sorry if you don't like my opinion. If you really want to create a piece that sounds unique and which the differences of genre will be noted in, then try harder. I'm not going to glorify a turd just because you think it deserves to have diamonds sprinkled all over it.

To me it just sounds like you're trying to plug your own track and glorify it just because you used different "ideas," it'll take a lot more than that to convince me otherwise. Then again when we're talking about beliefs and opinions no one wins but themselves. It's obvious you just baited an argument to plug your music, please stop trying to convince me otherwise. You didn't read my post and didn't understand that I was speaking of generalized ideas, and how things are perceived through DEFINITION. If you had read my original post at all, you would've never even tried baiting the argument.

So obviously, you just tried getting more views on your track. Nice job.

i wont even comment on this load of nonsense bullshits dude, i know my music sucks and i do it for a hobby because i like it, you talk like i care. get your shit together and talk with me in pm if you have a problem, you seem upset at writing all this block of shit for two words, grow up


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Chemich
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 04:24 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 04:05 PM, Lachi wrote:
At 3/15/13 03:51 PM, Chemich wrote: Everything has a mix of genre one way or another, that's how other genre's get made. Old elements made with new ideas, so please stop trolling and work harder on your music if you're going to shamelessly plug them.

Just sounds like a bad attempt at Psytrance, nothing more. If you have a problem with taking criticism then you're going to hate making music all together, sorry if you don't like my opinion. If you really want to create a piece that sounds unique and which the differences of genre will be noted in, then try harder. I'm not going to glorify a turd just because you think it deserves to have diamonds sprinkled all over it.

To me it just sounds like you're trying to plug your own track and glorify it just because you used different "ideas," it'll take a lot more than that to convince me otherwise. Then again when we're talking about beliefs and opinions no one wins but themselves. It's obvious you just baited an argument to plug your music, please stop trying to convince me otherwise. You didn't read my post and didn't understand that I was speaking of generalized ideas, and how things are perceived through DEFINITION. If you had read my original post at all, you would've never even tried baiting the argument.

So obviously, you just tried getting more views on your track. Nice job.
i wont even comment on this load of nonsense bullshits dude, i know my music sucks and i do it for a hobby because i like it, you talk like i care. get your shit together and talk with me in pm if you have a problem, you seem upset at writing all this block of shit for two words, grow up

for someone that doesn't care and takes this only as a hobby you certainly wrote a lot of bullshit defending something you didn't have an idea about in the first place, your ignorance led to your own demise.

If you're going to start shit, at least have the means of knowledge to be able to finish it. This has nothing to do with maturity at all; just you started a debate you couldn't handle it, so then you tell someone to "grow up."

Get your facts straight before you talk shit, the most you are to me is a troll that just wanted to plug his own shit and did it by a means of argument.

Very nice, you're certainly livid yourself.


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Lachi
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 04:27 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 04:24 PM, Chemich wrote: Get your facts straight before you talk shit, the most you are to me is a troll that just wanted to plug his own shit and did it by a means of argument.

Very nice, you're certainly livid yourself.

troll? lol man, get a life.
now stop this debate, i was wrong you were right etc


SUCK MY KICK

Chemich
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 04:30 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 04:27 PM, Lachi wrote:
At 3/15/13 04:24 PM, Chemich wrote: Get your facts straight before you talk shit, the most you are to me is a troll that just wanted to plug his own shit and did it by a means of argument.

Very nice, you're certainly livid yourself.
bad trolling attempt

Bahaha really?

man you're a hypocrite.


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Buoy
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 04:38 PM Reply

stop.

AetherX
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 05:25 PM Reply

I tend to use BPM the most when determining genres, but in the end it's best to just look at what other people call house or trance and develop an ear for it. It's not really a big deal in the end, but apparently some people give a million shits about it.

This doesn't exactly have to do with the OP's question, but I think that a good rule of thumb when classifying your own tracks is to put them under a genre that has a fan base that will be the least offended by it.

For example, prog house fans will take pretty much anything melodic while trance fans refuse anything except 138 BPM uplifting.

In short, try your best to avoid the butthurt.


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midimachine
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 15th, 2013 @ 06:45 PM Reply

At 3/15/13 05:25 PM, AetherX wrote: I tend to use BPM the most when determining genres, but in the end it's best to just look at what other people call house or trance and develop an ear for it.

BPM is pretty important
NRG and hard trance can go pretty fast, like 145-150 - you'd never play a house set that fast haha
then again goa/psytrance can be house speed sometimes but it still doesn't sound anything like house

This doesn't exactly have to do with the OP's question, but I think that a good rule of thumb when classifying your own tracks is to put them under a genre that has a fan base that will be the least offended by it.
In short, try your best to avoid the butthurt.

Good advice! :)


p.s. i am gay

Cabbster
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Response to What is the stylistic difference Mar. 16th, 2013 @ 04:03 AM Reply

IMO genres are mainly categorized by 3 things: consistent instrument usage, bpm, and tone.


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