transgender 6yr sues school

[troubles1]

link to storyFirst the story she is telling that her son an 18 months let her know he was a actually a girl he is 1 of 3 triplets she has been dressing him as a girl the school went along with her and allowed him to dress and act like a girl they treated him as one. But they informed the mother he has to use the boys bathroom after all no matter what he wants to be this 6yr old has a penis and if you have a penis you use the boys bathroom they even offered to allow him to use the unisex bathroom and the nurses bathroom but no not good enough for her she is suing the school to force them to go along and let him use the girls restroom. What about the rights of the little girls to not have a boy in there does there wishes and the parents not matter?
That being said I have done a lot of looking into this mom and she is another octamom willing to sacrifice her children to get attention. There is so many issues with this I will list a few questions and if the debate goes well Will continue giving details of her that the media and her lawyer and the transgender community are not telling people.

1-Should the school be forced to allow someone with male genitalia use the girls bathroom?

2-Should a parent be allowed to change a child's sex before puberty has even set in let alone at 18 months?

3- The Transgender community wants people to believe that it's a done deal that it's not a mental disorder like No-polar or Schizophrenia .that it's a actual disorder that there brain is one sex one body is another. They want people to believe that sex ,and gender are completely different but unfortunately for them the issue is not a done deal many psychiatric Dr believe it's a mental disorder and possibly curable with therapy and medication were do you weigh in on this?

4- Can a baby make such a decision before puberty before they even really know there is diffrent genders?

5-A parents job is to guide and keep there child from harm if they see them doing something or acting in a way that could have I'll effects shouldn't they stop that behavior? For example my son at 2 thought he was a train I did not let him play on the railroad tracks and feed his delusion .shouldn't this mother have done the same instead of putting him in dresses coloring his hair purple and wing him to pretend to be a girl, should she have said no you have a penis you are a boy and let him grow up and decide on his own later on in life?

6- Should the lawyer and transgender community and crazy attention seeking mother be allowed to make a 6 yr old the poster child for there agenda ? The sacrificial lamb to the world just to try and get what they want without caring how harmful this is to the boy is it not a form of child abuse and he be taken away so he can be a normal boy and have a childhood if it's even possible now?
Obviously there is lots of other questions but for now this is the basics what do you think of a parent that will do this to there kid?

[Ceratisa]

Not old enough to be transgender by choice, imho.

[Entice]

At 3/9/13 12:28 AM, troubles1 wrote: 1-Should the school be forced to allow someone with male genitalia use the girls bathroom?

Honestly I don't get why segregated bathrooms are such a big deal, it'd be easier just to have unisex at this point.

2-Should a parent be allowed to change a child's sex before puberty has even set in let alone at 18 months?

First of all "they allowed him to dress and act like a girl" they didn't give him a gender change.

But yeah, 18 months is way to young. I would say that before puberty is too young but sex changes turn out better if they're done before puberty so I think it should still be an option is very strong cases of gender dysphoria.

5-A parents job is to guide and keep there child from harm if they see them doing something or acting in a way that could have I'll effects shouldn't they stop that behavior? For example my son at 2 thought he was a train I did not let him play on the railroad tracks and feed his delusion .shouldn't this mother have done the same instead of putting him in dresses coloring his hair purple and wing him to pretend to be a girl, should she have said no you have a penis you are a boy and let him grow up and decide on his own later on in life?

Lol no. Keyword is harmful. Being feminine isn't harmful, and to discourage someone from pretending to be a girl you really have to discourage femininity. Trans don't deny that they have penises, they're just effeminate and perceive themselves as girls.

Have you ever thought that people just differ in their degrees of masculinity/femininity and in how they perceive their gender, and that it's not significant or harmful in any way? Is there really any objective reason why only people with vaginas should be allowed to wear dresses and play with pink toys (or the other way around)? Not really. It's nothing but a societal expectation.

[Korriken]

Typical overly permissive parents. Just because he wants to be or believes he's a girl doesn't make it so. I thought things couldn't get much worse than the parents who raised their child as genderless, but I suppose this takes things to a new low.

Given that the child in question is in fact a male, he has no right to be in a female bathroom. If this is such a massive problem to the parents, they should home school him. Besides, this kid is going to go through HELL in middle and high school thanks to the bullies who are going to target him.

I wonder if the parents will sue the bullies parents because the bullies picked on him for cross dressing?

[CaveStoryGrounds]

But you guys can't say its a disorder. You must tolerant them...tolerant everything! Obey...OBEY!

But seriously. That kid is a boy, the parents are stupid, bathrooms shouldn't be unisex, and the boy should stick to the boys bathroom or shit in a bush. End of story.

[The-Great-One]

I'm not entirely well informed about transgender. Many psychiatrists are still studying this. There is a possibility that this 6 year old is transgender. However that is not the case.

The school does have a right to not allow him into the girls restroom. I think they are being very reasonable in allowing the child to use the unisex restroom or the restroom in the nurse's office.

[Warforger]

What gender you think you are is determined by genetics even if you get a sex change early on in your life and are raised that gender. I seem to recall when a boy at birth went through a failed circumsision a doctor who thought that gender was all acquired by being told your gender. Well as time went on the child rejected dolls in favor of her brothers action figures and in general behaved like a boy. The study though ignored this and pretended that everything was going according to plan. Eventually the child became a teenager and found out about her birth and she became depressed and killed herself. Almost immediately the study was pulled.

[RydiaLockheart]

I self-identified as a Ninja Turtle when I was six years old, but my parents didn't give me any weapons or let me play in the sewer.

Of course an 18-month-old is going to pick up dolls and show interest in certain colors. He's exploring his world. That's what 18-month-old children DO. Besides, children change their minds all the time. One day it's cowboys, the next day it's ninjas.

I think the school was more than reasonable to offer the solution of using the nurse's bathroom. Hell, I wish *I* had a semi-private bathroom when I was in K-12. But no, the excessively permissive parents have to sue for "rights." The girls have a right not to have boys in the bathroom. I would not want my daughter to be in there with him (and yes, it is a him). Like one of the comments to the story says, I am weary of people suing for children's "rights."

This whole case reminds me of a guy I knew from middle and high school. I'm pretty sure he had a gender identity disorder of some sort. He used to come to school occasionally dressed in women's clothing. Sometimes I'd bump into him shopping for himself at Victoria's Secret. He even flat out told me several times he wished he had been born female. But you know what? He used the men's restroom and locker room. Why? Because he had male parts, so that's where he belonged.

In all seriousness, I do wonder what happened to that guy.

[Camarohusky]

Imagine the questions the other parents will get when their kids see what appears to be a girl using the boys bathroom.

That, right there, is enough for me, if I were the school, to give in and let him use the girls restroom.

[poxpower]

Actually sex is determined differently in the brain and the body.
It's just a fact of genetics. Boys and girls have different interests from birth, this has been studied a lot in the last 30 years.

But some girls have boy interests and vice-versa and those people are very likely to be unhappy and identify as the other sex.
Same as the "gay is just a choice" thing, this is starting to become clearly not a choice either. They're just born that way. It's not curable with therapy as far as I know.

The best option is to allow them to live as whatever gender until puberty where they take hormones. Yeah it's a couple of awkward years for everybody but then it sorts itself out, given enough surgery / treatments.

Yeah just let the kid use whatever bathroom anyway, who gives a fuck? Even if he was 16. So what? Do adults believe in cooties now?

[Memorize]

At 3/9/13 02:19 PM, poxpower wrote:

Yeah just let the kid use whatever bathroom anyway, who gives a fuck?

Apparently you and the parents because using a stall in the girl's restroom is like... so totahlly different than using a stall in the boy's.

[troubles1]

At 3/9/13 02:58 PM, Memorize wrote:

At 3/9/13 02:19 PM, poxpower wrote:

Yeah just let the kid use whatever bathroom anyway, who gives a fuck?

Apparently you and the parents because using a stall in the girl's restroom is like... so totahlly different than using a stall in the boy's.

Well some more info on this mother she is a attention seeking creep she has to be all new age against the norm and uses her kids to get it iv got links into her little weird group from before the child was bound. Personally I think she is using this child for publicity. First the child is a triplet the mother does not believe in vaccines or new medical treatment she got mad at her mother in law who said she was gross because she breastfeeds her 7 yr old son she says she only does at bedtime or if he falls off his Nick or something and hurts himself. I think thats a little old to be sucking on mommy's boob. She made a placenta smoothie I saw my wifes after birth and no way am I eating that.
The worst is she does not believe in vaccines or new medical treatment the triplets got something called HPV it's curable and preventable wit medical care she decided to do herbs this boy's sister do if not do as well as the others she got a fever and became severly brain damaged she can't walk talk feed herself has the mental ability of a baby she is in pain all the time so bad she screams silently. The mother caused this and being the self absorbed person she is loves the fact she is again edgy with a mentally challenged child she needed a van for her and did a fundraiser on facebook that part I am ok with but she did a if you donate $5 you get a thank you $100 a letter and some other what I think is wrong for $500 you got to spend the day with Lilly that the daughter that's like pumping you kid out to me.

Then she starts wanting to take her off the pain meds she wants to give her pot. I am all for using medical marijuana but taking her off her pain meds and because of the attention seeking this woman is I don't believe she wants to do it for the kids best interests she wants to again be edgey New age but she stopped talking about it when she discovered her son was transgender I guess that trumps the other.

The way she said she first new he was transgender is he went for a pink blanket instead of blue. The lawyer for them is head of transgender rights he said this case is bigger than this child I take that to mean this kid can be a sacrificial lamb it's all about pushing there agenda and not what's best for the kid. They said when he is a teenager he should be allowed to join a girls sports team and shower with the girls. What part of he has a penis do these people not get nobody with a penis is showering with my daughter they said it important that he is treated completely like a girl and get to do everything a normal girl gets to do. That just because he has a different sex organ does not mean he is not a girl. I think thats exactly what that means...what about the rights of the other children.

, there not caring about this kid at all the mom is already shooting a reality series if they cared at all about this kid they would have just let him use the unisex bathroom nobody had to know why. Or better yet let him be a boy. She wanted to do the surgery should it not be up to him if he wants his penis cut off and a 2 year old can't make that decision none if what is happening is his decision it's all the crazy mom and transgender group doing this to him...

[Famas]

Gender is not the same thing as sex. They are seperat identities. And frankly, who cares how a goddamn child dresses. Why don't you ask the other children what they think of the kid in question, because I guarantee you'd be surprised how supportive their answers are.

[Ranger2]

1-Should the school be forced to allow someone with male genitalia use the girls bathroom?

No, there would be so much room for abuse, and when it comes to body parts, children should not be exposed. If the child wants to use a unisex or staff bathroom that should be fine.

2-Should a parent be allowed to change a child's sex before puberty has even set in let alone at 18 months?

Absolutely not. Let the child develop on his/her own, and admittedly because of society, boys will naturally do more masculine things, and girls vice versa. That's not a bad thing.

3- The Transgender community wants people to believe that it's a done deal that it's not a mental disorder... were do you weigh in on this?

Anybody can be therapied into believing anything; I have no reason to believe homosexuality is a mental disorder any more than heterosexuality is.

4- Can a baby make such a decision before puberty before they even really know there is diffrent genders?

It's up to the baby to decide. I knew there were different genders long before puberty started.

5-shouldn't this mother have done the same instead of putting him in dresses coloring his hair purple and wing him to pretend to be a girl, should she have said no you have a penis you are a boy and let him grow up and decide on his own later on in life?

I think it's bad that the mother encouraged her son to wear dresses yet discouraged him from masculine activities. That's hypocrisy on her part, not the tg community.

6- Should the lawyer and transgender community and crazy attention seeking mother be allowed to make a 6 yr old the poster child for there agenda ?

All depends if the tg community accepts the boy as their poster child. Then I guess it's not a question if should anymore.

[troubles1]

At 3/10/13 12:00 AM, Famas wrote: Gender is not the same thing as sex. They are seperat identities. And frankly, who cares how a goddamn child dresses. Why don't you ask the other children what they think of the kid in question, because I guarantee you'd be surprised how supportive their answers are.

I agree ,but think the fact adults are using a child for there own agenda is wrong. He is 6 how is letting him have a different bathroom less harmful to him than all this media and now everyone knows he is different before for all kids knew he was a little girl who had his own bathroom. He will never be that now.

[Mechwarrior300]

i wish my parents let me choose my gender too. imagine how much time could be saved standing up to pee.

[JRob]

1. No.
2. No.
3. Don't give a fuck.
4. No.
5. She should've said no, but some people are a disgrace to the human race to think that a pre-pubescent child can make life decisions on his/her own. Hell, even I shudder at some of the things I said or did when I was younger than 10.
6. Hell no.

[BumFodder]

At 3/9/13 02:19 PM, poxpower wrote: But some girls have boy interests and vice-versa and those people are very likely to be unhappy and identify as the other sex.

you mean gender

[troubles1]

At 3/10/13 07:54 PM, BumFodder wrote:

At 3/9/13 02:19 PM, poxpower wrote: But some girls have boy interests and vice-versa and those people are very likely to be unhappy and identify as the other sex.

you mean gender

Now if he was older like 14 I might be inclined to think this is a well thought out plan . He gets invited to all the slumber parties, and bangs everyone's daughters. Well he is not fooling me .. evil little genius.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

what the hell is it with people in this country suing because their Feelings got hurt?

[Camarohusky]

At 3/11/13 07:45 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: what the hell is it with people in this country suing because their Feelings got hurt?

That's the price for less government intervention. You place the roll of governing in the hands of the people, and they have done SO WELL managing it.

[Korriken]

At 3/11/13 07:45 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: what the hell is it with people in this country suing because their Feelings got hurt?

its the decaying of culture and the rise of the entitled who thinks no one should ever tell them no.

I can see how this will play out in court.

Judge: is the child in question male?
Mom: the child has referred to herself as a girl since she could speak.
Judge: so the child has a vagina then?
mom: well, no...
Judge: then the child has a penis?
Mom: well, yes, but...
Judge Then the child is male, he uses the male bathroom. case dismissed.

[Famas]

At 3/11/13 12:03 PM, Korriken wrote:

Judge: is the child in question male?
Mom: the child has referred to herself as a girl since she could speak.
Judge: so the child has a vagina then?
mom: well, no...
Judge: then the child has a penis?
Mom: well, yes, but...
Judge Then the child is male, he uses the male bathroom. case dismissed.

Gender =/= sex. You are aware of the fact that somebody that is male sexed at birth can later become legally recognized as a female, right?

[troubles1]

At 3/11/13 12:16 PM, Famas wrote:

At 3/11/13 12:03 PM, Korriken wrote:

Judge: is the child in question male?
Mom: the child has referred to herself as a girl since she could speak.
Judge: so the child has a vagina then?
mom: well, no...
Judge: then the child has a penis?
Mom: well, yes, but...
Judge Then the child is male, he uses the male bathroom. case dismissed.

Gender =/= sex. You are aware of the fact that somebody that is male sexed at birth can later become legally recognized as a female, right?

You are aware that penis use the boys room right? Can he led standing up ? Then use the hike your dress up use the urinal and get back to class. Why do people think society has to feed into a person's mental issues .

[Famas]

At 3/11/13 01:01 PM, troubles1 wrote: You are aware that penis use the boys room right? Can he led standing up ? Then use the hike your dress up use the urinal and get back to class. Why do people think society has to feed into a person's mental issues .

Was there an actual sentence in there somewhere?

[troubles1]

At 3/11/13 01:14 PM, Famas wrote:

At 3/11/13 01:01 PM, troubles1 wrote: You are aware that penis use the boys room right? Can he led standing up ? Then use the hike your dress up use the urinal and get back to class. Why do people think society has to feed into a person's mental issues .

Was there an actual sentence in there somewhere?

Yes typing on my phone sorry. My point is no matter what he believes he is ,the fact is he has a penis .the bathroom for people with a penis is the boys room. Just because he has a delusion his parents feed does not mean society must as well.

[Korriken]

At 3/11/13 12:16 PM, Famas wrote:

Gender =/= sex. You are aware of the fact that somebody that is male sexed at birth can later become legally recognized as a female, right?

your point? he currently has a penis. he's male he shouldn't be using the girls bathroom because he's not a girl.

[Famas]

At 3/11/13 01:25 PM, troubles1 wrote: Yes typing on my phone sorry. My point is no matter what he believes he is ,the fact is he has a penis .the bathroom for people with a penis is the boys room. Just because he has a delusion his parents feed does not mean society must as well.

Except, as I already pointed out, a trans woman can be legally recognized as a woman by the state, which grants her the right to use the women's bathroom (excluding any states which have introduced legislature to ban this from happening) because gender =/= sex.

If people with a penis are supposed to use the boy's room, I have to ask the question: Which bathroom is for people with intersexed genitals?

[adrshepard]

At 3/11/13 01:41 PM, Famas wrote: Except, as I already pointed out, a trans woman can be legally recognized as a woman by the state, which grants her the right to use the women's bathroom (excluding any states which have introduced legislature to ban this from happening) because gender =/= sex.

The problem is that you're using the judgement of the state as an argument against common sense. People generally tolerate the idea of gender identity outweighing biological sex, but I'd wager that's only because so few people encounter them and because a person's self-conception doesn't affect others. I've rarely seen anyone, including those on the internet, defend this concept on an academic level because the scientific evidence is so scant and the description of the condition itself is so imprecise. Even transgender people I've talked to on the internet on comment feeds couldn't put it into words.

If people with a penis are supposed to use the boy's room, I have to ask the question: Which bathroom is for people with intersexed genitals?

Intersexed? If you're talking about true biological hermaphrodites, there have only been about 11 cases ever according to Wikipedia.
For post-op transexuals, they probably just use the stall of whatever gender they're dressed as; it'd wouldn't be an issue to come up at a school.

[Famas]

At 3/11/13 06:38 PM, adrshepard wrote: The problem is that you're using the judgement of the state as an argument against common sense.

No, I'm not.

People generally tolerate the idea of gender identity outweighing biological sex, but I'd wager that's only because so few people encounter them and because a person's self-conception doesn't affect others.

Uh, what? Issues with gender identity affect a wide range of people. LOTS of people. People who are transgender are not the only ones that have to invest time and effort into finding the comfortable expressions of their own gender. There are non-gender-binary/genderqueer/agender people. It's not a two dimensional, single axis gradient. And yes, a person's self conception can have an effect on others, as it can directly challenge your own presupposed notions of gender identity.

I've rarely seen anyone, including those on the internet, defend this concept on an academic level

Then you don't converse very often with people involved in gender studies, do you?

because the scientific evidence is so scant

Evidence of what, pray tell?

and the description of the condition itself is so imprecise.

I'd love to see you apply this same logic to the realm of philosophy.

Even transgender people I've talked to on the internet on comment feeds couldn't put it into words.

Trans peeps aren't the holy ambassadors of gender identity. They also don't have any responsibility to validate their gender identities to you, nor are they solely found dwelling in the natural habitat of 'internet comment feeds'. You probably shouldn't extrapolate reading a few comments on a Gawker site to mean you have been exposed to all the academic and critical material regarding the subject out there.

Intersexed? If you're talking about true biological hermaphrodites, there have only been about 11 cases ever according to Wikipedia.

Uh, no it doesn't, it says the prevalence ranges anywhere between .018% to .2% of all births, which equates to between 1,260,000 to 14,000,000 intersex people alive today. You're only off by several orders of magnitude. But that's irrelevant, isn't it? You still didn't answer the question. If you want to enforce strict gender binaries, then what bathroom should an intersexed person use?

For post-op transexuals, they probably just use the stall of whatever gender they're dressed as; it'd wouldn't be an issue to come up at a school.

If people are going to make an issue out of somebody who has not undergone SRS using a bathroom, they are going to make a big deal out of somebody who has undergone SRS using a bathroom.