Why is NES is so hard?

[TheKlown]

Why the hell did they make the Original NES games so freaking hard?

A lot of the games are cheap and there's 0 ways to avoid getting hit at all. I been playing Batman Nes, and that game is incredibly cheap. I can't get passed the 3rd Stage! Why does it seem they purposely made these games so hard for people to run out and cheat to get GameShark?

I don't like cheating in games but the way they made these Nes games ridiculously difficult makes me think Nintendo may have owned the rights to GameShark or profited off people buying one. A lot of these games could have been funner to play if it were not for cheap hits, cheap deaths. Is it just bad programming or did they purposely make these games this difficult?

[argile]

I don't think that gameshark existed around the time Nes was out it was Game Genie mainly. Those games were probably made hard to make The games have a longer time to beat gaming was new at the so it would have normally need some problem solving skils

[Darthdenim]

because back then only gamers played video games. Gamers liked challenge.

Also, games tended to be shorter back then, so extreme difficulty was a way of padding them out and getting more of your moneys worth out of them.

[Chdonga]

Because back then games were short. So they would artificially lengthen the games with cheap deaths and unavoidable damage.

[Trambamboline]

Because back then A) people had balls B) Games were made for people who didn't have particularly busy social lives C) It wasn't a given that you should be able to finish a game you'd paid for.

[TheKlown]

At 2/26/13 12:39 PM, Trambamboline wrote: Because back then A) people had balls B) Games were made for people who didn't have particularly busy social lives C) It wasn't a given that you should be able to finish a game you'd paid for.

I heard Nes games went for 40-60 bucks back in the 80's. Is that true? That is pretty expensive for a game they didn't expect you to beat.

[sweet21]

Im gonna sum up:
-Since games were new they had no idea how to make the well.
-Games were small, but still $40 per game, developers wanted people to feel like they got their moneys worth. You could beat the average NES game in less than an hour due to size limitations.

[Trambamboline]

At 2/26/13 12:55 PM, TheKlown wrote: I heard Nes games went for 40-60 bucks back in the 80's. Is that true? That is pretty expensive for a game they didn't expect you to beat.

I can't say for certain, since all my experience of NES era gaming came from the 90s, and my games would have been bought by my parents, so perhaps they were cheaper at that time. All I know is whenever me or any other kid I knew would get a game we all shared the feeling of "Wow, I hope I can beat this game!" which isn't really around any more.

[orangebomb]

At 2/26/13 12:12 PM, Darthdenim wrote: because back then only gamers played video games. Gamers liked challenge.

That makes no sense, there were only a small amount of gamers as compared to today, and most of them were kids or young teenagers. Plus, there were still families who played on the NES back then that wouldn't be considered the gamer demographic.

The real reason why most NES games were hard is partly due to the fact that the technology is nowhere near as advanced as it is now, or even 15 years ago, and most, if not all of them weren't familiar with video games, so it was pretty much a case of trial and error, which in turn pretty much became the Wild West period of game development, when everyone and their brother could make a game.

[MikeyS9607]

Fake difficulty was used to artificially lengthen games, most NES games like Zelda and the early Final Fantasies are almost unplayable these days. There are still some fun, moderately challenged games for the system, though.

[MikeyS9607]

At 2/26/13 12:12 PM, Darthdenim wrote: because back then only gamers played video games. Gamers liked challenge

Actually it was mainly kids.

[Mismo]

Because if you took away the difficulty there is not really that much gameplay. Like what is what is timer on super mario bros usual set on, like 300 seconds or so? That's about 5mins of gameplay per level at a maximum, and approximatively a good 2 and half hours of gameplay and the max. But no ordinary gamer will beat it without dying and getting a game over and having to restart the whole thing again, so thanks to that extreme difficulty you can get a lot more hours out of the game, when it is in reality very short.

As goes with RPGs at the time, where you would sooner or later met that one boss/enemey which seems like it is impossible to beat. What do you do? You grind until you've poured more hours into it than most would do on modern RPGs. But then again, without the difficulty it is rather short.

[Cyberdevil]

Because in the old days, life was hard.

[Ceratisa]

Artificial difficulty, and not many save systems.

[Mrccbirdguy]

It's funny though. Some of the newest games are the easiest. I remember my best buddy back in college bragging that he beat zelda 64 without dying once. I've done it over and over. You can't really do that with the originals. Heck, it's almost necessary when you play adventure of link.
I also think it's more of the fact that they put so much into graphics, music and (Sometimes) storytelling that they don't have much in the way of a real challenge anymore.
You talk about things like challenge, have you ever played mega man 2 and beat the dragon? that's some hard stuff. Tough platforming combined with a decent combat system. Gah! We sound like old people. "Back in the good ol' days..."

[Darthdenim]

At 2/26/13 09:50 PM, Mrccbirdguy wrote:
I also think it's more of the fact that they put so much into graphics, music and (Sometimes) storytelling that they don't have much in the way of a real challenge anymore.

I do think storytelling is a big reason why games aren't hard anymore. They are more concerned with pushing the story forward that giving a decent challenge.

[Sense-Offender]

this freaking game...

Man, you have no idea.

It's good, though

[ViceFullbuster]

At 2/26/13 10:43 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: this freaking game...

Man, you have no idea.

Oh but i do

[TheKlown]

I was talking about playing Super Contra with my one Nephew, and he said they'd have no problem playing it because they're good at Call of Duty. It made me chuckle because I know that Call Of Duty is cakewalk compared to any Contra game on the NES.

[TheElephant]

try melting it with fire or somting and see if its still hard haha!

~ Mr. Tembo, Ultimate Elephant (Become a fan)

[tyler2513]

Most NES games just have a certain feel and pattern to them. Once you've mastered or at least learned this very precisely you'll get the feel of the game and be great at it. One game I doubt I'll ever stop getting my ass handed to me in is Double Dragon III.

[UVSoaked]

They were hard because the testers were the developers most of the time. So when you constantly test your game when developing it, you become a pro at it and don't realize it. I think it's also because that was the only way to offer a decent playback life for the games back then, since you couldn't do anything else because technology back then was pretty limited back then, especially for consumer electronics.

[SmashLuigiFan1]

NES games aren't really that hard, though they do tend to have constant trial and error. Games like Ghosts'n Goblins and Ninja Gaiden were only hard because you didn't know what was coming, and die constantly while only moving slightly farther than before. Also, The patterns of enemies and bosses are incredibly simple. Plus, some games like Castlevania just make you way too powerful to even have an issue with the bosses. An example would be going through the entirety of level 5 with the holy water and optaining the Triple Shot to completely demolish Death.

[Sense-Offender]

I never played the first Contra, but I loved Contra 3. Playing a ROM of that game without a gamepad is a pain, though, when you get to the top-down levels.

At 2/27/13 12:50 AM, ViceFullbuster wrote:

At 2/26/13 10:43 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: this freaking game...

Man, you have no idea.

Oh but i do

hah. I've heard about that game's notoriety and how hard it is. It looks pretty good, though.

[Nithael]

The reason NES games were so hard was because back then, more people knew more things about game design and actually cared about giving people a challenge while not taking 4 months allowance. Not to mention nowadays developers follow Simons Quest as an example for some retarded reason and just try to make things take longer, not making it difficult in reality but just making it take longer making you feel like its difficult, while in reality you are repeating the same thing you did 10 minutes ago in a diffrent form. Capcom for example, designed their games around the path people tried to take while just trying to plow through the game, meaning that if you dont stop for a second and analyze the situation, you will be obliterated.

[Nithael]

At 2/27/13 06:33 PM, SmashLuigiFan1 wrote: NES games aren't really that hard, though they do tend to have constant trial and error. Games like Ghosts'n Goblins and Ninja Gaiden were only hard because you didn't know what was coming, and die constantly while only moving slightly farther than before. Also, The patterns of enemies and bosses are incredibly simple. Plus, some games like Castlevania just make you way too powerful to even have an issue with the bosses. An example would be going through the entirety of level 5 with the holy water and optaining the Triple Shot to completely demolish Death.

Ghosts'n'Goblins was hard because you could only get hit twice, and there were alot of things coming at you. Reacting fast enough to avoid ALL of them was unlikely, even for a quick-witted person. On the topic of Ninja Gaiden, the reason that was difficult was the fact that things were fast as shit, you were forced to conserve your special ammunition and even if you did know what was coming, you would likely not react fast enough to avoid/kill it and even if you do, it respawns if its anywhere near the edge of the screen.
In the case of Castlevania, do you realise how insanely difficult it is to get to the Grim Reaper with holy water in the first place?
This is a basic presentation of why having holy water while you are trying to get to Death is a bad idea.

[Nithael]

At 2/26/13 10:43 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: this freaking game...

Man, you have no idea.

It's good, though

Yeah actually me n my friend usually play it during the weekends when he has time, and holy mother of god is it difficult.

[SmashLuigiFan1]

At 2/28/13 05:31 AM, Nithael wrote:

At 2/27/13 06:33 PM, SmashLuigiFan1 wrote: NES games aren't really that hard, though they do tend to have constant trial and error. Games like Ghosts'n Goblins and Ninja Gaiden were only hard because you didn't know what was coming, and die constantly while only moving slightly farther than before. Also, The patterns of enemies and bosses are incredibly simple. Plus, some games like Castlevania just make you way too powerful to even have an issue with the bosses. An example would be going through the entirety of level 5 with the holy water and optaining the Triple Shot to completely demolish Death.

Ghosts'n'Goblins was hard because you could only get hit twice, and there were alot of things coming at you. Reacting fast enough to avoid ALL of them was unlikely, even for a quick-witted person. On the topic of Ninja Gaiden, the reason that was difficult was the fact that things were fast as shit, you were forced to conserve your special ammunition and even if you did know what was coming, you would likely not react fast enough to avoid/kill it and even if you do, it respawns if its anywhere near the edge of the screen.
In the case of Castlevania, do you realise how insanely difficult it is to get to the Grim Reaper with holy water in the first place?
This is a basic presentation of why having holy water while you are trying to get to Death is a bad idea.

Ghosts'n Goblins was only hard for its cheap enemy placement, it's not really a game you have to be fast at. During my entire playthrough for the best ending, the one problem I had were the enemies, particularly the goblins and flying devils in the last level. Everywhere else the game seemed pretty tame, but that last level was brutal just for the goblins and devils alone, PLUS the skeletons would trigger and block the ladders even if you weren't near them and they just spawned on screen sometimes. The boss rush there too was pretty easy as long as you had the sword.

As for Ninja Gaiden, during my initial playthrough of the game I had not died once until Act 4, and even after that I didn't die often. It's pathetically easy until 6-2, then it was just constant trial and error. As for the enemies being fast, most of them die in a single hit and they all have one way of attacking, so their patterns are easy as well. The respawning is BARELY an issue, unless you're careless. I actually used to respawning to my advantage at certain points as it's very easy to manipulate. Even if you don't do that, just run passed the enemy, you don't have to kill everything that moves.

Plus, Ryu himself is incredibly fast, so as long as you pay attention you won't have much trouble. He can also take quite the beating, as he actually has a health bar which left much room for mistake. And the amount of weapon energy you can get before the final bosses makes them a joke, as long as you go through Acts 6-2 and 6-3 without dying, which isn't as hard as it sounds, besides that hallway with no walls to jump on.

Two other things that people say make Ninja Gaiden a hard game are the birds and the knockback causing you to get hit into an abyss. For the birds, they just home in on you. Standing still makes them move in a straight line for easy killing, and half the time if you manage to dodge them, they fly off-screen. As for the knockback issue, I never really suffered from it other than two certain rooms in Act 6, and I would mainly die from losing all my health against bosses.
I should also probably mention that I beat Ninja Gaiden in a single weekend.

It's actually pretty easy to get to Death with the holy water, mainly because there are 2 pork chops in the level and that nothing can kill you in one hit. I will admit, that hallway before Death is pretty hard, but having the holy water makes it a walk in the park! It freezes the knights in place so you don't have to worry about them, allowing you to kill or dodge the madusa heads. If anything, the holy water destroys all of the bosses and most enemies, except Dracula's first form.

[ViceFullbuster]

At 2/27/13 12:50 AM, ViceFullbuster wrote:

At 2/26/13 10:43 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: this freaking game...

Man, you have no idea.

Oh but i do

hah. I've heard about that game's notoriety and how hard it is. It looks pretty good, though.

Forgetting it's notoriety if you ever spent just one weekend with it as a rental as i did as a child you will have this image embedded into your mind for all eternity.

[Cootie]

At 2/26/13 12:16 PM, Chdonga wrote: Because back then games were short. So they would artificially lengthen the games with cheap deaths and unavoidable damage.

To be fair most of the good games were difficult without resorting to cheap tactics. Mario Bros was pretty hard, but you knew that every time you died it was because you messed up and not because the game was cheap.