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limeade-escapade
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Exp. for audio and art Feb. 25th, 2013 @ 09:53 AM Reply

I was wondering why my level was not going up but now I know you only get Exp for voting on games and movies. Can that be changed?

Cyberdevil
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Feb. 25th, 2013 @ 11:46 AM Reply

The flash content existed on NG long before art and audio, and the level system has worked that way since the start. The levels are integrated with a B/P and whistle system to induce voting power that the other content forms don't need. For both the art portal and audio portal scouting is used instead, so, maybe it's best to keep the level system for the core content? It should probably be clarified though, now that the content forms are so easily mixed.

TurkeyOnAStick
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Feb. 26th, 2013 @ 08:02 AM Reply

At 2/25/13 09:53 AM, limeade-escapade wrote: I know you only get Exp for voting on games and movies. Can that be changed?

I hope so, since it would reward people's activity on the site in all the portals, regardless of what Newgrounds used to host.

The strength of a vote on audio is dependent on how many movies/games the user has voted on. For people who mostly check out audio submissions, this seems a bit of a shame.
Also the reward for protecting and blamming movies and games is provided by the B&P police badge, rather than the user's level.


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GamerTheory
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Mar. 2nd, 2013 @ 05:50 PM Reply

The strength of a vote on audio is dependent on how many movies/games the user has voted on.

This alone should be raising red flags everywhere. Somebody who loves games but knows nothing about music has more voting power on music than experienced music critics?

I also wish the experience system would extend to art and audio. It just seems like an incomplete metagame as it stands.

Cyberdevil
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Mar. 2nd, 2013 @ 06:29 PM Reply

At 3/2/13 05:50 PM, GamerTheory wrote: This alone should be raising red flags everywhere. Somebody who loves games but knows nothing about music has more voting power on music than experienced music critics?

It should still be all about the users opinion though. Doesn't matter how experienced they are with a certain form of content, the rating is based upon their opinion. The users with high voting power tend to be involved in the community though, so their votes won't be completely unfair.

TurkeyOnAStick
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Mar. 2nd, 2013 @ 07:37 PM Reply

At 3/2/13 06:29 PM, Cyberdevil wrote:
At 3/2/13 05:50 PM, GamerTheory wrote: This alone should be raising red flags everywhere. Somebody who loves games but knows nothing about music has more voting power on music than experienced music critics?
It should still be all about the users opinion though. Doesn't matter how experienced they are with a certain form of content, the rating is based upon their opinion.

Of course they've both got an opinion, except the guy who votes purely on movies/games will sway the score more than the guy who only checks out audio.

The users with high voting power tend to be involved in the community though, so their votes won't be completely unfair.

So why exclude audio and art in the levelling up? They don't need to have a vote multiplier (since the traffic is low and could sway scores far too much) but people who visit these sections should be rewarded, just like the other content driven parts of the site.


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Cyberdevil
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Mar. 3rd, 2013 @ 03:28 AM Reply

At 3/2/13 07:37 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: Of course they've both got an opinion, except the guy who votes purely on movies/games will sway the score more than the guy who only checks out audio.

Sure. Not sure if you're saying that's a problem though, or if that's just the way it has to be when people move outside their area of expertise?

So why exclude audio and art in the levelling up? They don't need to have a vote multiplier (since the traffic is low and could sway scores far too much) but people who visit these sections should be rewarded, just like the other content driven parts of the site.

I just feel the entire level system revolves around flash, and if I understand the system right, the reason levels were introduced was to give more experienced users more power over the content, assuming their votes would be juster than that of new users. Seeing as flash content is the one system which is still moderated by the users, that's where levels and badges are needed. If people are confused over getting EXP only from flash content, it seems they'd be just as confused over not getting B/P from the other content forms. The level system is also integrated with the monthly voting system, one that still doesn't include art and audio. Or maybe I just don't like change. :P Some kind of reward would definitely be good though.

TurkeyOnAStick
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Mar. 3rd, 2013 @ 06:12 AM Reply

I think this will be the last time I post here, since i don't think this is getting through.

At 3/3/13 03:28 AM, Cyberdevil wrote:
At 3/2/13 07:37 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: Of course they've both got an opinion, except the guy who votes purely on movies/games will sway the score more than the guy who only checks out audio.
Sure. Not sure if you're saying that's a problem though, or if that's just the way it has to be when people move outside their area of expertise?

Let's say there's 2 new users on the site who sign up at the same time.
1 loves the movies on the site, and everyday checks and votes on the movies, for 3 months.
The other's a musician, and everyday checks and votes on audio for 3 months.

The only guy who levels up is the movie lover, even though they both have the same activity on the site.
He will also sway an audio vote more than the audio lover.
... that's the problem. The experience system is geared towards people who watch movies and games, and I see no reason to exclude art and audio. Other than "that's the way it's always been", and i really don't want people to think that's an acceptable answer.

So why exclude audio and art in the levelling up? They don't need to have a vote multiplier (since the traffic is low and could sway scores far too much) but people who visit these sections should be rewarded, just like the other content driven parts of the site.
I just feel the entire level system revolves around flash, and if I understand the system right, the reason levels were introduced was to give more experienced users more power over the content, assuming their votes would be juster than that of new users.

In the proposed system older users will still have the levels (which they earned from movies and games), except people could ALSO gain xp from art and audio.

Seeing as flash content is the one system which is still moderated by the users, that's where levels and badges are needed. If people are confused over getting EXP only from flash content, it seems they'd be just as confused over not getting B/P from the other content forms.

The scouting system in audio and art is also moderated by the users.

The level system is also integrated with the monthly voting system, one that still doesn't include art and audio.

... so why not include audio and art in the monthly voting? :p


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Cyberdevil
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Mar. 3rd, 2013 @ 07:25 AM Reply

At 3/3/13 06:12 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: The only guy who levels up is the movie lover, even though they both have the same activity on the site.
He will also sway an audio vote more than the audio lover.

I get that, but I still think that the main content of the site should have priority. A website that doesn't have a core and just focuses equally on everything won't spark the same level of interest, new users need to be directed to a main form of content. I can't think of any successful site that doesn't have a main focus. If you look at the competition, like DA or YT, they've both specialized in a specific field. For me, the portal has always been the core of this website.

Other than "that's the way it's always been", and i really don't want people to think that's an acceptable answer.

It's not just a habit, it's a framework for success. Tradition and history work in the favor of anything, though I don't mean everything should just stay as it is and never change, but improvement isn't reinventing the wheel, it's making it better. The audio portal was originally a place where flash developers could fetch resources for their creations, and still is to a certain extent. The art portal is a great place to showcase another form of creativity, the whole site is like a great network of different content forms, but as a human being it needs a heart to keep pumping blood into all these different arteries.

In the proposed system older users will still have the levels (which they earned from movies and games), except people could ALSO gain xp from art and audio.

I'm all for rewards, but the level system being reserved for the main type of content is a great way to keep that type of content alive, and to show which content is the main focus, though admittedly that's becoming hard the way the menu is now arranged. If all content types were equal gain, then what would happen if the userbase slowly moved in the direction of one subsidiary content form instead the original one? Can you imagine this place as an art portal, with the flash section mainly a place for commercial games and people to sometimes showcase their galleries? The site would fall to the bottom of the competition in said genre, whereas it still is the largest community for dynamic creativity online.

The scouting system in audio and art is also moderated by the users.

Yet without the need for B/P, which combined with EXP add to total VP. How about a system where the amount of scouted users combined with your EXP add to your voting power for that content type? That might be motivation.

... so why not include audio and art in the monthly voting? :p

$700 more in prize money? Changing focus of the website? More work for the staff? A few reasons. :) If the monthly voting for these two forms of content were separate though, and unprized, a merit without announcement, I'm all for it. Shouldn't be too hard with a system that directs different users to different monthly voting panels based on which section of the site they frequent the most, so people who vote more on art or audio get to vote on a monthly panel for art or audio. The results could then be posted to either art or audio forums.

limeade-escapade
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Mar. 4th, 2013 @ 02:49 PM Reply

I understand what is meant about movies and games being more important but it seems like the other parts are already growing and there will always be people who are here for the games and movies. Maybe a separate level for each thing would be better... And the level that it shows on your page depends on your aura? I don't know how complicated it is to implicate these things. It was just a thought.

Cyberdevil
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Mar. 4th, 2013 @ 03:53 PM Reply

At 3/4/13 02:49 PM, limeade-escapade wrote: Maybe a separate level for each thing would be better... And the level that it shows on your page depends on your aura? I don't know how complicated it is to implicate these things. It was just a thought.

That would actually be pretty neat, though maybe just show the highest level on the profile, regardless of aura, since that's probably the one all users want to show, or for users who aren't dedicated to just one form of content. That way, there would be rewards for judging all content types, but nobody would know what types of content a specific user judges, just which one they judge the most of.

Another way would be to just have level systems for all content types, but all but the main one hidden, so the levels affect your voting power on specific content without being recorded as stats.

limeade-escapade
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Response to Exp. for audio and art Mar. 4th, 2013 @ 07:04 PM Reply

That actually sounds really cool.