a brilliant plot?

[Korriken]

so I was thinking, I was reading through some old news and ran into the article about where Iran supposedly captured a US spy drone.

that gives me an idea!

America needs to take a drone, fit it with internal high explosives ordinance. fly it over iran and have it "malfunction" and land without exploding. the bomb will be rigged with sensors. once the open the drone up and begin digging inside? BOOM! take out a few of their prized scientists and make Iran look like an idiot.

question is, would it even work?

[thegarbear14]

it would probably work but then iran would get even more pissy with the u.s.

[Entice]

At 2/24/13 02:21 PM, Korriken wrote: question is, would it even work?

No the question is: what would we accomplish? Seems pointlessly aggressive.

[Feoric]

What's the difference between this and flat out bombing Iran with drone strikes?

[BrianEtrius]

At 2/24/13 03:18 PM, Feoric wrote: What's the difference between this and flat out bombing Iran with drone strikes?

If we add in the possibility of a chemical weapon/WMD might have been stolen from Syria, it would make for the plot of the next Tom Clancy book.

[Angry-Hatter]

No question it would work... to start a war, that is. Flying an unarmed drone into foreign territory is one thing, flying an armed drone into foreign territory and setting it off in order to incur casualties is an open act of war.

[Warforger]

.......Because the entire country is unable to muster any type of cautious scientist who will first work to defuse the bomb? Or at the very least look for one? I mean hell let's just make a nuclear bomb, put it in a bar of gold or whatever and give it to the Ayatollah as a gift.

[Korriken]

At 2/24/13 03:18 PM, Feoric wrote: What's the difference between this and flat out bombing Iran with drone strikes?

what the bomb is designed to take out. yeah, you could hit a scientist's car with a drone strike, but that would involve flying the thing over a city, which would attract enemy aircraft.

a well disguised bomb would be hard to detect, I once had a plot to take out criminals by arming an otherwise normal purse with a small bomb that has a light sensor and it armed by remote. once you open the purse and expose the sensor to light? BOOM! needless to say I never bothered to try it because I'd rather not be on death row, known as the Purse Bomber.

either way, they probably wouldn't expect there to be an armed explosive on board designed to kill the people dismantling it. The tricky part would be how to booby trap the thing to go off as they try to dismantle it.

act of war? nah. it was just a technological secret preservation device they accidentally set off while dismantling it. Even if it was figured out, what is Iran going to do? threaten us?

[Korriken]

At 2/24/13 04:59 PM, Warforger wrote: .......Because the entire country is unable to muster any type of cautious scientist who will first work to defuse the bomb? Or at the very least look for one? I mean hell let's just make a nuclear bomb, put it in a bar of gold or whatever and give it to the Ayatollah as a gift.

they would have to suspect a bomb. I don't think very many drones are rigged with high explosives meant to take out those trying to dismantle it. they might look for a device that destroys the data on board, but a bomb to blow the entire thing to bits and kill anyone in the hangar/room that is set off by something as minor as turning the wrong screw or exposing a sensor to light, or perhaps a failsafe attached to a battery that removing would set off the bomb?

they might, but I kinda doubt it after they've dismantled a couple already and figure they know the basic contents.

Still, not many people, especially in Iran are knowledgeable about drones and the technology to use them. kill a dozen or so scientists and it would put a dent in their efforts.

[Feoric]

At 2/24/13 08:56 PM, Korriken wrote: what the bomb is designed to take out. yeah, you could hit a scientist's car with a drone strike, but that would involve flying the thing over a city, which would attract enemy aircraft.

Mossad (/we?) have been killing their scientists with car bombs for a while now, there's no need to do that. Besides, for this plan to work you'd need to actually have the drone in Iranian airspace anyway with the goal to be detected. Plus the whole point of a drone is to, y'know, not be detected by enemy aircraft.

a well disguised bomb would be hard to detect, I once had a plot to take out criminals by arming an otherwise normal purse with a small bomb that has a light sensor and it armed by remote.

either way, they probably wouldn't expect there to be an armed explosive on board designed to kill the people dismantling it. The tricky part would be how to booby trap the thing to go off as they try to dismantle it.

I would think that the any given military has a bit more intelligence than purse robbers. Anyway, drones are already engineered with anti-tampering technology, so any secret tech (which is almost exclusively the surveillance sensors) is destroyed when unauthorized people start taking it apart, making reverse engineering impossible, so it's already "booby trapped" to a certain degree. Adding a "fuck you i'm exploding" feature doesn't really accomplish anything other than killing some grunts in a hangar with a nasty diplomacy issue. It's not worth it.

act of war? nah. it was just a technological secret preservation device they accidentally set off while dismantling it.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Even if it was figured out, what is Iran going to do? threaten us?

Iran can do a lot to make our lives more difficult in terms of diplomacy and hegemony in the Middle East, so yeah. And they'd know immediately it was our drone. I mean really, the word drone has become idiosyncratic with America for quite some time now.

This makes a great Tom Clancy plot but is so needlessly complicated considering Israeli intelligence has no qualms whatsoever with assassinating top ranking members of Iran's nuclear field.

[Ceratisa]

At 2/24/13 03:57 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: No question it would work... to start a war, that is. Flying an unarmed drone into foreign territory is one thing, flying an armed drone into foreign territory and setting it off in order to incur casualties is an open act of war.

Oh no a war with a country before it acquires a nuclear device and drops it on Israel.

[Feoric]

At 2/25/13 01:05 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Oh no a war with a country before it acquires a nuclear device and drops it on Israel.

Iran has been 4-5 years away from acquiring a nuclear device since...about 1979. This time is totally different, though.

[Ceratisa]

At 2/25/13 01:16 AM, Feoric wrote:

At 2/25/13 01:05 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Oh no a war with a country before it acquires a nuclear device and drops it on Israel.

Iran has been 4-5 years away from acquiring a nuclear device since...about 1979. This time is totally different, though.

This time we aren't doing shit. We haven't let them get this far before honestly.

[Korriken]

At 2/25/13 12:57 AM, Feoric wrote:

Mossad (/we?) have been killing their scientists with car bombs for a while now, there's no need to do that. Besides, for this plan to work you'd need to actually have the drone in Iranian airspace anyway with the goal to be detected. Plus the whole point of a drone is to, y'know, not be detected by enemy aircraft.

this is true but car bombs only take out 1 scientist. this would take out multiple at one time. also, they wouldn't be so quick to rip open our drones in the future. they would take it apart VERY slowly, which would serve to make reverse engineering a very daunting process for them, because, you never know, this one might be rigged too.

I would think that the any given military has a bit more intelligence than purse robbers. Anyway, drones are already engineered with anti-tampering technology, so any secret tech (which is almost exclusively the surveillance sensors) is destroyed when unauthorized people start taking it apart, making reverse engineering impossible, so it's already "booby trapped" to a certain degree. Adding a "fuck you i'm exploding" feature doesn't really accomplish anything other than killing some grunts in a hangar with a nasty diplomacy issue. It's not worth it.

this is true. they would be looking to prevent the device from killing off the data, but they might not be looking for a secondary charge that turns the entire thing into one massive shrapnel bomb.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

yep, and exploding roses spread that sweet scent far and wide.

Iran can do a lot to make our lives more difficult in terms of diplomacy and hegemony in the Middle East, so yeah. And they'd know immediately it was our drone. I mean really, the word drone has become idiosyncratic with America for quite some time now.

perhaps, but we'd just call it a preventative measure and blame them for not returning our property.

This makes a great Tom Clancy plot but is so needlessly complicated considering Israeli intelligence has no qualms whatsoever with assassinating top ranking members of Iran's nuclear field.

there you go. we'll "give the drone" to Israel. let them do it. Maybe I should find Tom Clancy and give him the idea. he might like it if he hasn't already thought of it. i'd write my own war novel, but I'm too busy with other things.

[Feoric]

At 2/25/13 10:50 AM, Ceratisa wrote: This time we aren't doing shit. We haven't let them get this far before honestly.

We've had them under sanctions for decades. Please demonstrate to me how "we" have let them get "this far" (whatever that may mean).

At 2/25/13 11:33 AM, Korriken wrote: this is true but car bombs only take out 1 scientist. this would take out multiple at one time.

How? What scientists would be near this thing? Considering that the scientists Israel has been targeting has been related to nuclear physics, what nuclear scientist would be near this thing as it explodes? This would be taken to a hangar in an airbase, this wouldn't kill any scientists at all. Just some guys looking at it funny.

also, they wouldn't be so quick to rip open our drones in the future. they would take it apart VERY slowly, which would serve to make reverse engineering a very daunting process for them, because, you never know, this one might be rigged too.

Eh, that doesn't matter at all. The only real secret worth getting is the surveillance tech, and they're tamper-proof so nobody is getting it. There's pretty much no secrets to gain from drones that Iran can conceivably gain from, considering all the security measures that go into them. The biggest gain from getting drones is a leverage tool, plus it's pretty embarrassing for us. They don't even need to touch, just put it on display and let the TV stations make a big spectacle while mocking us, etc.

yep, and exploding roses spread that sweet scent far and wide.

Well ultimately it's an attack on a foreign military, so yeah that would leave quite a big stink.

perhaps, but we'd just call it a preventative measure and blame them for not returning our property.

Right but it doesn't matter what you call it, it is what it is. There's already preventative measures and Iran is fully aware of them. Any measures put in place like you are suggesting have the intent to hurt and/or kill anyone fucking around with it, which is completely unnecessary. If our property is a "spy drone" (but actually a shrapnel bomb) then that's not really property worth returning, it's a fucking bomb.

there you go. we'll "give the drone" to Israel. let them do it. Maybe I should find Tom Clancy and give him the idea. he might like it if he hasn't already thought of it. i'd write my own war novel, but I'm too busy with other things.

Aw c'mon, Zionist conspiracy theories are very popular in Iran. You don't think they'd spot this instantly? It practically writes itself.

[Ceratisa]

At 2/25/13 02:34 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 2/25/13 10:50 AM, Ceratisa wrote: This time we aren't doing shit. We haven't let them get this far before honestly.

We've had them under sanctions for decades. Please demonstrate to me how "we" have let them get "this far" (whatever that may mean).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran
continuous set backs is what I meant.
And quite honestly, I don't see why you aren't in favor of a military strike. The do nothing policy for N.K. did wonders right?
That country has proved that a government is more then capable of starving its civilian population to continue nuclear arms development.

Iran is in a better economical situation then N.K. ever could be. Sanctions aren't going to stop them from getting a nuclear device.

[Feoric]

At 2/25/13 04:02 PM, Ceratisa wrote: And quite honestly, I don't see why you aren't in favor of a military strike.

Because maybe I don't enjoy innocent people being killed for no reason other than to justify the trigger fingers of paranoid war hawks? What is wrong with you?

[Ceratisa]

At 2/25/13 04:10 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 2/25/13 04:02 PM, Ceratisa wrote: And quite honestly, I don't see why you aren't in favor of a military strike.

Because maybe I don't enjoy innocent people being killed for no reason other than to justify the trigger fingers of paranoid war hawks? What is wrong with you?

What is wrong with you as we see the results of inaction. We have a nuclear country with millions fucking dying to continue their project. WHAT is wrong with you for not understanding those sanctions are effecting the normal people you don't want to be killed. WHAT exactly is wrong with you that you don't understand that Iran has NOT been co-operative with nuclear investigations. IF it wanted nuclear power then it could be open about it. WHY exactly are some of their facilities underground if they don't want to keep secrets?

In order to stop Iran with sanctions means more suffering than the people in N.K. are currently going through. I don't see how you can justify that kind of pain and suffering. Even more so when Iran isn't being transparent.

Or do you think they have absolutely no intention of obtaining a nuclear device?

[Feoric]

At 2/25/13 04:18 PM, Ceratisa wrote: What is wrong with you as we see the results of inaction. We have a nuclear country with millions fucking dying to continue their project. WHAT is wrong with you for not understanding those sanctions are effecting the normal people you don't want to be killed. WHAT exactly is wrong with you that you don't understand that Iran has NOT been co-operative with nuclear investigations. IF it wanted nuclear power then it could be open about it. WHY exactly are some of their facilities underground if they don't want to keep secrets?

This is some really confusing word salad. First you start of telling me about the results of "inaction" yet go on this hysterical screed about sanctions. Is imposing sanctions an inaction or something? Then you just nosedive into this tirade against me apparently being in favor of sanctions? Or something? Where are you getting this idea? I've already discussed this topic in detail so you might wanna check yourself before making wild assumptions about my positions. Of course I can't fault you for not reading my entire posting history, but I just gave you the opportunity to read what I've posted there so there's no excuse for you to sprout out nonsense from here on.

[Korriken]

At 2/25/13 02:34 PM, Feoric wrote:

How? What scientists would be near this thing? Considering that the scientists Israel has been targeting has been related to nuclear physics, what nuclear scientist would be near this thing as it explodes? This would be taken to a hangar in an airbase, this wouldn't kill any scientists at all. Just some guys looking at it funny.

well, engineers not scientists. I doubt they let just any grunt that happens to be nearby dissect a piece of enemy equipment. and I doubt just 1 person would be working on it.

Eh, that doesn't matter at all. The only real secret worth getting is the surveillance tech, and they're tamper-proof so nobody is getting it.

no such thing as tamper proof.

There's pretty much no secrets to gain from drones that Iran can conceivably gain from, considering all the security measures that go into them. The biggest gain from getting drones is a leverage tool, plus it's pretty embarrassing for us. They don't even need to touch, just put it on display and let the TV stations make a big spectacle while mocking us, etc.

exploded drones are hard to show off :P

Well ultimately it's an attack on a foreign military, so yeah that would leave quite a big stink.

Right but it doesn't matter what you call it, it is what it is. There's already preventative measures and Iran is fully aware of them. Any measures put in place like you are suggesting have the intent to hurt and/or kill anyone fucking around with it, which is completely unnecessary. If our property is a "spy drone" (but actually a shrapnel bomb) then that's not really property worth returning, it's a fucking bomb.

well it's better than my other idea to make a drone that imitates a full sized iranian fighter jet, fill it with explosives and fly it into iran and slam it into something.

there you go. we'll "give the drone" to Israel. let them do it. Maybe I should find Tom Clancy and give him the idea. he might like it if he hasn't already thought of it. i'd write my own war novel, but I'm too busy with other things.

Aw c'mon, Zionist conspiracy theories are very popular in Iran. You don't think they'd spot this instantly? It practically writes itself.

yeah they might be far more paranoid about opening it if it was a israeli drone. they might expect Israel to pull off something like that.

[laughatyourfuneral]

At 2/25/13 10:50 AM, Ceratisa wrote:

At 2/25/13 01:16 AM, Feoric wrote:

At 2/25/13 01:05 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Oh no a war with a country before it acquires a nuclear device and drops it on Israel.

Iran has been 4-5 years away from acquiring a nuclear device since...about 1979. This time is totally different, though.

This time we aren't doing shit. We haven't let them get this far before honestly.

why can't iran have nukes if they want to ? A nation with nukes want to stop other nations from having nukes, hypocrisy at its finest.

[Iron-Hampster]

maybe the lives of those scientists matter. Maybe they worked hard to be where they are today. maybe they are the kind of people we are supposed to be looking up to. Maybe some of the work they are doing really will benefit Iran's medical research and save lives?

[Korriken]

At 2/27/13 01:15 PM, laughatyourfuneral wrote:

why can't iran have nukes if they want to ? A nation with nukes want to stop other nations from having nukes, hypocrisy at its finest.

Well, I would bother explaining it, but given what you just said I doubt you have the mental faculties to process it. I'll put it in simple terms you can understand. Iran makes nuclear device. Iran gives nuclear device to terrorist group. terrorist group detonates nuclear device inside of city.

why not let them have it? because no good can come of it. it's basic War 101: don't let an enemy have an advantage you can prevent them from having or can take away from them.

[science-is-fun]

they would claim we bombed them, and technically they'd be right, it would destroy the US's credibility and the world would think we can't even keep control over our own military

[laughatyourfuneral]

At 2/28/13 01:05 AM, Korriken wrote:

At 2/27/13 01:15 PM, laughatyourfuneral wrote:

why can't iran have nukes if they want to ? A nation with nukes want to stop other nations from having nukes, hypocrisy at its finest.

Well, I would bother explaining it, but given what you just said I doubt you have the mental faculties to process it. I'll put it in simple terms you can understand. Iran makes nuclear device. Iran gives nuclear device to terrorist group. terrorist group detonates nuclear device inside of city.

why not let them have it? because no good can come of it. it's basic War 101: don't let an enemy have an advantage you can prevent them from having or can take away from them.

heres a tip, if you dont establish corporate dictatorship in every country you invade and "free the shit out off" most insurgency problems would go away. The problem is people like you who think iran and USA are that different, both countries support terrorism in different forms and i dont trust the US anymore than i trust Iran.

[laughatyourfuneral]

At 2/28/13 09:50 AM, science-is-fun wrote: it would destroy the US's credibility

thats a good one.